pastitche

The lack of English fluency has neither interfered nor hampered their work.

BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa or Mandarin?

Regarding your first point, you are correct: the lack of English fluency has neither interfered nor hampered the work of Merkel of Putin. And there is a simple reason for this: they both have brains, a strategic plan, and a work ethic. With that combination, they could conduct the business of politics in Tagalog for all their citizens care. The point I made in an earlier post is that Yingluck and her drawer full of monkeys --- err… I mean ministers --- just run about spouting jibberish. And no country should have jibberish as its official language.

Regarding your second point: “BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa [i’m guessing you meant Bahasa? Bhasa is a relatively minor language in Nepal] or Mandarin?”… I cannot vouch for nor justify the inadequacies of the Antipodean leadership. As for my President… well… he’s just too damned busy to learn every other language out there and get stuff accomplished. So he’s sticking with English and a game plan. But I’m sure if he decides to pick up another language someday, Thai will be the first one he chooses.

I'm sure you men gibberish - jibberish if I remember correctly is a girlie language that boys can't understand

"Did you obtain a French language-based Masters degree at a university in France?"

That is irrelevant to the point I was making, and you know it. My point was that any language unless frequently used gets rusty. After 21 years of disuse I would expect here usage of English to be poor.

The reason I asked was that you were making a comparison of your experience with those of Yingluck. I was just pointing out the dissimilarities, which negates the comparison.

Your other point that, without use, language skills can diminish with time is valid.

It's just that the image projected of her even before she was PM was that she was international business executive who proudly proclaimed to being in charge of a company with 20 million customers. In that sort of scenario, one might think she encounters English on at least an occasional basis, if not daily.

If, instead, she was actually a business executive in title only and acted only as a pretty front for her brother's businesses, with no actual responsibilities, and who only had very limited exposure to the real international business world, I could understand her current language shortcomings.

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As usual a post full of non sequiturs. Anterian made a perfectly valid point about loss of language skills over time and you dragged in Yingluck's attendance at a US university. I know nothing of Anterian's history but, if he is from Europe, he would have spent at least a year at a French university to obtain his degree.

She was a business executive in charge of a company with 20 million customers? How many of those customers were English speakers? And why, do you think that she would encounter English on at least an occasional basis?

Just the usual diatribe I have come to expect - full of puff and no substance. You would do well as a Nation opinion writer

?

But despite that not one foreign country or international poice/legal organisation takes his conviction seriously!

That's why we see him breezing in and out of the U.S., the U.K., Canada, etc.

Yes, Zimbabwe doesn't take his conviction seriously, but with their shared despotism, and Thaksin infusing funds in the face of international sanctions, it's not surprising.

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I do think that you ought to think a little bit longer before using a term such as "shared despotism". Thailand is not run by a despot, although Zimbabwe is. However Thaksin is not in Thailand. He might have such ambitions but personally I don't think so - I think he would settle for a guilt-free face-saving return, but I could be wrong

On the point of Thaksin's investment in gold and platinum mining I think that you have made a serious over-estimation of his wealth. I expect you have never seen the mining operations required to extract these metals but they are immensely capital-intensive and assuming that the estimated value of the product is all profit is naive.

I found it amusing that, you with a baseball avator, were challenged to "step up to the plate" and name the countries that cared about Thaksin's status. You did not respond to that

That was because that was never what I said. It just got mangled by a replier. Thankfully, after the 3rd reply back to him, it finally seems to have sunk in.

Thaksin was a despot during his regime.

The evaluations of his gold and platinum mines were not by me, but geologists with the industry, whom I'm pretty sure would understand how things work.

Is there anything else?

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Yes there is. Those geologists that you talk about were estimating the value of the extracted product but you choose to ignore the costs of extraction. If it were that profitable, Thaksin would not be in the game, RTZ and others would; sanctions are only for those who believe in them..

I really think that you need to consider the true meaning of "despot". How could he be a despot in a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system? Yes a healthy majority helps a strong leader to assert his/her will as did Margaret Thatcher but I don't suspect that you would pair her with Thaksin.

a good follow up to how badly she has performed previously.

When you set the bar that high...

I think the poster said rather more than you selected for comment

In a follow-up article in the other paper, Kwanchai has stated that his plan was necessary because the Pheu Thai Party has failed to deliver Thaksin back to Thailand.

He said that even five years after Thaksin has gone into exile, there is no sign of his imminent return because of PTP inaction.

He went to say that there will be a Red Shirt rally in Udon Thani on April 7th and that if they can amass 30,000 Red Shirts they will proceed at that time with his plan and bring Thaksin back through the Friendship Bridge border crossing.

He said that by publicly stating the date, it will also be a signal to Thaksin that if he is truly interested in returning to Thailand, that that is the time for him to come.

He stated that his people had sacrificed everything and fought for the PTP, but that the PTP has not done enough to ensure his return.

Further criticisms of the PTP are also reported on.

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IF they get 30,000?? That should be a walk in the park. Expect Thaksin home in April.

If he doesn't come back, I suppose it brings into question the 500,000 they supposedly got at their little get together a couple of weeks ago.

The declared numbers have gone up a tad.

Now Kwanchai is saying he will mobilize 10,000,000 Issanites to protect and escort Thaksin.

http://www.nationmul...h-30178403.html

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You sure about the number 10,000.000? Must be crowded in Issan

"The language of chemistry is not english, nor is it the language of physics, nor math, nor biochemistry."

You are correct but her degree requires English unless she is going to be doing her job in Thailand. Would i expect the PM of Thailand with a masters degree from and American University to speak fluent English, yes. Does she come any where close? Nope. "Thank you for help me to translate"? Her helpers cant get her through 6-7 words? I think she was going for the flirtatious, "Help me im innocent and trying to speak english",(Bat Eye lash) and it worked! Pretty puppet wins again, you guys are easy.

I graduated from an accredited University that offers doctorate level academics. I have also worked with many a fine chef that has attended vocation/ tech schools and some who had their doctorates and then went to these tech schools to become chefs. From your elitist red perch it must be nice to look down on the common folk that serve you. <Profane comment removed>

Yingluck too went to an accreditated university but apparently that is not enough for the Oxbridge and Ivy League graduates on this forum; if you have been a trained chef, how good is your French outside of the kitchen?

Well done!

Is that bien cuit?

30 years ago I was fluent in French, I don't think I can claim that now.

Did you obtain a French language-based Masters degree at a university in France?

BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa or Mandarin?

Considering the fact that those are the two most important languages in the region, one would think they would be able to speak the language.

How many Aussie or Kiwi PM's lay claim to obtaining a Bhasa [actually, its Bahasa] or Mandarin language-based Masters degree program?

Thanks for the analogies, guys. It would help... if they applied to the situation.

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Bucholz I asked you in a similar previous thread where you went to university and you refused to answer on the grounds that it was irrelevant because the subject was Yingluck's academic achievement. So why are you asking an eqivalent question of Anterian? It may interest you to know that a degree in French from a British university normally involves spending a year in a French university. I don't expect the same is true in your country.

"The language of chemistry is not english, nor is it the language of physics, nor math, nor biochemistry."

You are correct but her degree requires English unless she is going to be doing her job in Thailand. Would i expect the PM of Thailand with a masters degree from and American University to speak fluent English, yes. Does she come any where close? Nope. "Thank you for help me to translate"? Her helpers cant get her through 6-7 words? I think she was going for the flirtatious, "Help me im innocent and trying to speak english",(Bat Eye lash) and it worked! Pretty puppet wins again, you guys are easy.

I graduated from an accredited University that offers doctorate level academics. I have also worked with many a fine chef that has attended vocation/ tech schools and some who had their doctorates and then went to these tech schools to become chefs. From your elitist red perch it must be nice to look down on the common folk that serve you. <Profane comment removed>

Yingluck too went to an accreditated university but apparently that is not enough for the Oxbridge and Ivy League graduates on this forum; if you have been a trained chef, how good is your French outside of the kitchen?

But despite that not one foreign country or international poice/legal organisation takes his conviction seriously!

That's why we see him breezing in and out of the U.S., the U.K., Canada, etc.

Yes, Zimbabwe doesn't take his conviction seriously, but with their shared despotism, and Thaksin infusing funds in the face of international sanctions, it's not surprising.

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I do think that you ought to think a little bit longer before using a term such as "shared despotism". Thailand is not run by a despot, although Zimbabwe is. However Thaksin is not in Thailand. He might have such ambitions but personally I don't think so - I think he would settle for a guilt-free face-saving return, but I could be wrong

On the point of Thaksin's investment in gold and platinum mining I think that you have made a serious over-estimation of his wealth. I expect you have never seen the mining operations required to extract these metals but they are immensely capital-intensive and assuming that the estimated value of the product is all profit is naive.

I found it amusing that, you with a baseball avator, were challenged to "step up to the plate" and name the countries that cared about Thaksin's status. You did not respond to that

I like her. But I'm from Australia where our current batch of politicians would make anyone look good. From all the commentary I've read the fact that she is quite an attractive lady works against her.

Not really it is all she has the rest come from her brother in Dubai

Please tell us what this cryptic contribution means. I, for one, am fascinated by the hidden promise of secret wisdom.

Well as for her command of English I personally find it OK for a Thai but not OK for a Masters in a English speaking Collage.

As for the rest she relied on her looks, wit and dress when ever a question came up she had some one else answer it.

Your English is suspect to say the least; I am sure that you were told wittily in another thread that collage is completely different from college.

That is why I could not get my masters I couldent spell worth a hoot.

I suspect that it was more fundamental than that

"Thank you for help me to translate."

Kentucky State University ( Masters )

She missed out the "ing" in helping according to the report; Do you have a Masters degree from a better university where your studies were conducted in another language than your own or is this just the usual ploy of denigrating the PM because of her name?

Yup, as I said . . . if you travel under an Oz pp then you are afforded protection . . . if you don't - well, your choice.

My brother has had several cases, he's also a dip - kind of a family tradition, where he's had to say 'sorry' because the guy wasn't on his Oz pp

My father had several of these cases as well - it's even worse when a death is involved

Simple - travel under an Oz pp and the Consulates and Embassies can and will help. Travel under a different pp and rely on that country's consular services.

Logic

But even if you enter your home country under your Australian passport (or in my case, British), I doubt our government would protect us from persecution by our home nation

SC

There's also the big question of where will we be if Wee Alec wins his referendum

Then we might as well take dual nationality. I might go to the Land of Nod in a short while, actually,...

So we can either be Scots or nationals of "England and Wales and that other wee bit". Pleasant dreams

The sound of one hand fapping

I feel obliged to disagree on this one; thank you for the learning opportunity, but it appears that "to fap" is etymologically derived from "fap!" an onomatopaiec exclamation for the sound of solitary gentlemanly stimulation from English-language manga-style comics. Being fortuitously blessed with a monomanual-sized member, I can confirm that one or two hands, the sound is the same. I leave you with this quote from the Wiktionary page on the topic

"He really likes to fap; I hear him five times a day at least."

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fap

Unless your point is that with current market conditions, there should be no-one obliged to resort to twisting one off the wrist, but I am sure that elsewhere posters have identified one another as definite participants in the solitary arts

SC

SC

I can only bow to your etymological knowledge Sir Cowboy but would hesitantly point out that the noun onomatopoeia has, as its adjective, onomatopoeic.

Yup, as I said . . . if you travel under an Oz pp then you are afforded protection . . . if you don't - well, your choice.

My brother has had several cases, he's also a dip - kind of a family tradition, where he's had to say 'sorry' because the guy wasn't on his Oz pp

My father had several of these cases as well - it's even worse when a death is involved

Simple - travel under an Oz pp and the Consulates and Embassies can and will help. Travel under a different pp and rely on that country's consular services.

Logic

But even if you enter your home country under your Australian passport (or in my case, British), I doubt our government would protect us from persecution by our home nation

SC

There's also the big question of where will we be if Wee Alec wins his referendum

Be careful about protecting the roof. Every single break-in in the area where I live has been through the roof.

But how many times were the occupants inside?

^^ Yes. The law and procedure has been discussed before in Thaivisa. I should not have said "Thais & Falang" and should have said "Thai nationals and non-Thai nationals".

And Sing-Sling, I guess I was wrong about you being a part of the anti-gun lobby. Let's say you break out yer ol' .30-06 and a we go a huntin' in the backwoods for some grub. Yeeeeeeeehhaaaaaaw.

You proclaim your Thai nationality but admit to your US upbringing where the pro gun lobby is far more powerful than elsewhere. Please accept that there are members on here who do not accept that gun ownership is a worthwhile social value or constitutional right. Multiple murders by legal gun owners are far more common in the US than in countries where possession of such lethal weapons is more strictly controlled.

Whilst there is an emotional response to "what can I do if burglars break into my home, when my wife and children are sleeping?" , the chances of that are small. Most break-ins take place when there is no-one in the house and a gun is just another valuable item to steal

I hope the TV anti-gun lobby don’t roll in and destroy this thread as they did another recently.

as arnold once said in "red heat " about liberal policiticians : Shoot them First !

What are the chances of this kind of home invasion happening? I'm so macho I will kill anyone who breaks into my house and I'll use a bigger gun than yours......

thanks for this theblether, i remember many of those posts. those were fun days. i joined in 2003 too but gave up on Thaivisa the past several years as a protest against the editorial bent the site had taken on, it became way too political....

been visiting again recently and i feel like a newbie again.

Good to see you thedude.........OldCroc get's the credit for sending us your way, and I think it's high praise to yourself and many others that you made an impression that lasted.

It's been my delight to read through the old threads, the quality of humour and information contained within is outstanding. I'm only a member like everybody else but I personally find some of the bitterness and trolling hard to watch on our forums.

So I reckon a lot more positive and helpful information from some of our absolutely outstanding contributors, combined with plenty of humour and pathos will encourage even more characters to make an appearance. Happy days for all.!!

ps Thanks for the birthday wishes 23.03.66, so that makes me 46 today, with a mental age of 6.......sounds about right

Happy birthday equinoctial boy

Free balloons, today only when you buy a BTS ticket.

That is better than mine. I nearly spilt my cuppa.

God I misread that "better" as "bigger".

Just realised you have to look at Dean999's avatar for that one

I'm always getting told to go home........apparently I blether too much

And usually by bar staff - not just in Thailand. Yes?

I love threads like this. It gives the people who feel that Thais want them to go home the opportunity to gain a little insight into what it must be like to be an immigrant in their home country...

Not really. There are many rights allocated to immigrants in the USA that are not had here by farang. Overall, I would consider Thailand's government fairly unaccommodating to immigrants.

What happens is that many farang have not gotten laid in their home countries since the 1970's so when they come to Thailand the fact that they can get a gf on their first day makes Thailand just the World's most wonderful, flawless country.

For those less desperate, Thailand is another place on the map and a very flawed one at that.

I think you are guilty of over-simplification; many foreigners are not here because of easy bargirls (mainly that is a tourist activity) but choose to be here for innumerable other reasons. You obviously are not one of those who have "not gotten laid since the 70s". So why are you here?

See the word 'hypothesis'? There is a chasm between 'evidence' and 'hypothesis', ijustwannateach

I respectfully disagree. As I was taught in school there are "laws" such as the law of gravity (you drop an apple from a great height it falls, always), and "theories" to explain the laws such as "string theory" (which I don't want to get into).

The "evidence" is the existence of the differences in the genes, and the hypothesis that is sought to be proven is the correlation of the genes with the ability to learn tonal languages. It's not a "law", but rather a theory used to explain. As such there is no chasm between evidence and hypothesis as evidence is used to support a hypothesis, which is in itself only an explanation for why things occur.

A hypothesis (from Greek ὑπόθεσις; plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon."

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Hypothesis

Exactly. The hypothesis refers to the idea. Evidence is then used to support the hypothesis. Ultimately, if the hypothesis seems to form a good framework for explaining the phenomena, we call it a 'theory' and continue to collect evidence. When it has become a theory, it is generally considered scientific 'truth' (with some disclaimers and limitations). 'Laws' are more a matter of longstanding reliability and antecedence, and are as close as science gets to 'rock-solid' modelling. There is evidence- as I said- otherwise the paper would not have claimed support for the hypothesis (i.e., there is a null hypothesis and back to the drawing board). I made no claim stronger than the available evidence.

I came back to this thread to say that I had found the paper quoted above which I agree does not fit with my outdated views on human psychology - it's been a while and after a career where it was of little significance. I might have done so earlier but was distracted by related references to things like genetic evidence for language populations in Europe.

So I agree that there exists a hypothesis that tonal language facility is present in some significant populations of tonal language speakers; however that particular genetic occurrence is nowhere like 100% of those who speak tonal languages (which are found all over the globe from Africa to Australia). That, imo, does not imply a necessity to have the gene present in order to speak a tonal language. The ability to mimic sounds and therefore acquire language is far older, given that our earliest ancestors were from a fairly small population of Africans. That reinforces my belief that any infant can learn any language to which it is exposed from birth. The !Khung I referred to, are AFAIK, the only users of the click in their vocabulary but there is no evidence I am aware of to suggest that this is genetic.They are also one of the oldest groups of our species on the planet and one of the most researched.

If you want to say that this particular pairing of alleles enables a facility for tonal language, that is fine but it may also have been an evolutionary development that improved success for a completely different environmental circumstance, just as our primate predecessors, it is hypothesised grew larger brains because they ate high protein foods like bone marrow that other carnivores left behind.

Incidentally I disagree with you that posting a hypothesis that is questioned means that the questioner has to research that hypothesis. Surely if you propose something that is not common knowledge, you should supply the evidence to support it.

Yingluck should not speak in front of international audiences. I love that this article addresses the obvious problem of the "face-saving"/reinforcement issue. Thais bring a whole new meaning to the term "lackey", but that's more of an aside. Yingluck's administration demonstrated clearly that she is NOT in control when the floods happened. There were so many mouths spewing incomprehensible nonsense that government incompetence became as much a concern for the public as actual flooding. But there have been other instances as well, such as when Yingluck tried to tell the public that she wasn't aware of her own Foreign Ministry's plans to provide her brother with a passport (even if that's a bold-faced lie, it just shows how stupid they think the public is/how stupid they think they can be and get away with it). The fact is that successive Thai governments don't stand up to international scrutiny at all. This isn't just Yingluck; it's the entire system and it's been this way for a decade, at least. Thailand has essentially disconnected from global economic and political progress and integration. Thais are scrambling to prepare for the 2015 ASEAN integration because the citizens of other ASEAN nations have shown themselves to be much more aggressive and willing to learn. Bold, adventurous, confident, well-educated ASEAN investors will likely trounce their Thai equivalents in the global race towards prosperity. Thai academics and officials already know this and there have been numerous articles touching on the issue. Ultimately, Thai cultural pride (they were not colonized, something they really, really want everyone to know) and complacency have left the country with a government that reflects it's populace: oblivious and unskilled. Most Thais, it's been demonstrated, cannot find their own country on a map.

The Thai government is chock-full of proxies, puppets and known criminals. The international community knows this. Take a look at Yingluck's meetings with foreign officials in Davos: she met with no one of importance. It's very easy to see why. No serious government official, with little time and huge challenges before him or her, would sit down with someone who so clearly doesn't have her cards in order. There is every reason to believe that her brother would have to rubber stamp anything she happened to agree upon. She is so clearly incapable of leading a country and government (and that's not completely her fault; Thai political culture isn't merely a topic for study, it's a disaster) that it wouldn't truly make sense to spend any time discussing anything with her. When I stand her up next to Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (Indonesian PM; great interview with Charlie Rose), Barack Obama, Wen Jintao, Angela Merkel, or even Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, I can immediately make sense of the fact that Yingluck attracts little attention from foreign diplomats at major international political gatherings. She isn't a PM/President like any of them are (they all are leaders and are truly looking out for the long-term health of their respective countries). She can barely manage things in her own language, let alone in English.

Do you think Merkel speaks anything but German ?

Or Kirchner anything but (Argentinean) Spanish ?

What's your point?

Angela Merkel is fluent in Russian.

Hardly surprising since she was raised and educated in the DDR before the Wall came down

From a former language teacher's perspective, there is some scientific evidence that some (white, European-heritage) foreigners will have more trouble learning Thai potentially than the average Chinese and/or Indian, because of a gene that is linked towards proficiency in tonal languages. This gene is MUCH more common in countries where tonal languages are commonly spoken. It gives me more compassion for the people that I know who have genuinely tried to learn and been repeatedly frustrated (including some linguistic geniuses who are much better at multiple European languages than I am).

Frankly I would prefer to see evidence of the existence of the gene you talk about; language learning in infants and a tonal gene? So perhaps the !Kung Bushmen have a gene for their click?

I heard that it has to do with the left ( ? ) part of the brain, which apparently is not used in rational thoughts.. Just hearsaying..

It is the alleged gene that I think is questionable; infants are programmed to learn language and any child of any racial genetic history will learn to speak, in its early years whatever language to which it is exposed. I do not believe that there exists a gene such as Ijustwannateach claims and would like to see the scientific evidence he claims.