UK Confirms Pension Freeze for Expats in Thailand

1 hour ago, Farage said:

I guess the gov thinks its more important to use the funds to support illegal migrants ...mobile phones, hotels, free food, free medical, free transport....

That's a dead horse, and fundamentally wrong. It's just like stupid right wing speech.

1 hour ago, CecilM said:

Makes sense. Since you don't spend the pension money in the UK, why should the gov't support your overseas lifestyle?

An argument based on little knowledge of the facts.

5 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

So, why? Why are people not aware? Does every single little piece need to be told or placed in front of people?

I guess the information is available for the ones that actually care to check up things before moving to another country. Especially financesnsion are very important to make sure to be aware of if moving and settling in a foreign country. It´s just not to by a ticket, and then say I like it, and I stay! After complaining, just because not doing due diligence before making a decision.

There is only one word for such people: Fools!

There are some things in life one takes for granted and for most Brits, one of those things is their government pension. Many would not even give it a thought, they just trust in their government to do the right thing and that thing, is to pay them their pension. What difference does it make if they move abroad. Why should equally hard working and equally contributing folks be discriminated against and denied an increase unlike others who remain in the country........

Sure those 'fools' as you call them maybe should have read the fine print; I haven't and am certainly no fool, it just would never have entered my mind to check that the government has a way out for what I would consider doing absolutely nothing wrong...Thank goodness for this forum and the likes of YT in recent years as it's only through these mediums that I learnt this fact.

56 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

And like many others here, we cannot afford Private Health insurance after the age of 65 - 70.

When you entered Thailand you knew about those facts, however you came.

And there are insurances which will take you in older age. You should know that.

So you are complaining what? 😂😂😂

4 minutes ago, bronzedude said:

From what I understand from the comments, an expat from the UK is still paying UK taxes for their pension earnings. If this is the case, then a pensioner contacts a friend (hopefully they have one that still likes them) and establishes  a home address/residence in the UK and also creates a bank account in the same city/town where the address is,  they can sent their pension there. Most modern governments pay accounts digitally. If this were possible, a pensioner then simply needs to have the money sent to their Thai bank account by bank transfer.

6 minutes ago, thjames007 said:

I get where you coming from but that logic and sense of entitlement is why every westerm country is broken.

You put in 30k and you get back 100k and you still complain about the system?

If i was to argue. Id say no one should get the increase if they live outside the country! Why do those who live and spend in the uk be treated the same as those that live overseas.

Put in 30k 😁 try doubly or trippling that figure and only get back 100k... exactly..bad investment...I've looked at mygov website and my NI conts...could have got a decent sized annuity with what I paid

5 minutes ago, potless said:

That would be nice. I was in a company pension scheme and obliged to be contracted out. As such, my UK state pension was reduced by 27%. Nobody told me that at the time.

Same here but I paid 5 years additional contributions so I should get a full pension (might be 1 year short).

5 minutes ago, baansgr said:

It just means my other pensions with be fully taxed. It is what it is have to accept it

Currently you pay tax on your income, with 12.5k 0% allowance. When your State Pension comes, it is merely added onto that total income to pay tax on at first 20% and then , is it 40% over a certain limit.

This subject is worse than flogging a dead horse nothing will change

I was made aware when I retired to Thailand that my pension would not get the yearly increases

While I accept this it's still unfair I have put my name to the countless petitions

Trying to change this

But alas to no avail

Well that's a big surprise.

Time for a mid morning beer, cheers.

3 minutes ago, Off Piste said:

There are some things in life one takes for granted and for most Brits, one of those things is their government pension. Many would not even give it a thought, they just trust in their government to do the right thing and that thing, is to pay them their pension. What difference does it make if they move abroad. Why should equally hard working and equally contributing folks be discriminated against and denied an increase unlike others who remain in the country........

Sure those 'fools' as you call them maybe should have read the fine print; I haven't and am certainly no fool, it just would never have entered my mind to check that the government has a way out for what I would consider doing absolutely nothing wrong...Thank goodness for this forum and the likes of YT in recent years as it's only through these mediums that I learnt this fact.

You claim not to be a fool?

But you came here not knowing what will happens with your financial situation when it comes to pension?

How would YOU call a person like this?

37 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You can give any UK address you like, they don't check.

Obviously you would need to not flap your mouth about living overseas.

Works until your bank inform DWP that you are sending your pension to Thailand.

A very likely scenario given recent changes to banking regulations.

1 hour ago, Farage said:

I guess the gov thinks its more important to use the funds to support illegal migrants ...mobile phones, hotels, free food, free medical, free transport....

That is what Open borders will do for you, Farage. Same garbage in the US after Biden stopped enforcing Immigration laws.

Just now, wil iam not said:

Currently you pay tax on your income, with 12.5k 0% allowance. When your State Pension comes, it is merely added onto that total income to pay tax on at first 20% and then , is it 40% over a certain limit.

Over way round, State Pension goes in 1st then your other income is added on top (this is why they can say that SP is not taxed).

You might say this is semantics but things like Rental Income are now taxed at 22/42% so if this went in 1st you'd pay less tax than if it sat on top of your State Pension.

1 hour ago, john smith said:

Actually the frozen pension rule has been in place since 1945. It has been ratified by government on several occasions since then. The problem is that many did not read the rules before leaving the UK. The only answer to the problem it to petition the Thai government to bring in similar pension rules to align with those of the UK. Not being familiar with the pension system here I don't know if this is possible

You are wrong. There was no frozen pension in 1945, the term relates to the disqualification of uprating. Annual uprating wasn't introduced until the 70s as was the disqualification, under the Social Security Act. The government's defence in the Carson case was mainly on the perception that social security benefits were not payable overseas.

Wasn't the pension introduced under the National Insurance Act?

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Works until your bank inform DWP that you are sending your pension to Thailand.

A very likely scenario given recent changes to banking regulations.

Use a financial services 3rd party to move your money around,

WISE, Revolut, etc.

I've never made any UK bank transactions outside the UK.

No transfers, no debit or credit card payments.

20 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

And when Tony Blair was PM he fought it all the way to the European Court of Human Rights (Carson and Others v The United Kingdom)...

1. Initial Challenge (2002): Carson took the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) to the High Court in London, arguing that freezing her pension discriminated against her and breached the Human Rights Act. [1, 2, 3]

2. Court Rulings: The High Court dismissed the challenge, ruling it was a political matter rather than a judicial one. Subsequent appeals to the Court of Appeal in 2003 and the House of Lords in 2005 were also dismissed. [1]

3. European Court of Human Rights (2008–2010): Carson—along with an international consortium of British pensioners—took the case to the ECHR. In 2010, the ECHR Grand Chamber ultimately ruled (by 11 votes to 6) that the government's policy was not discriminatory, stating that expatriates in non-reciprocal countries were not in a comparable legal position to residents in the UK. [1, 2]

Good post there. Highlighting the animosity of a succession of governments. The situation is clearly discriminatory. It was not about a comparison between people in the UK and people abroad. It was about people in different non UK countries being treated differently.

I know a lot of UK pensioners in Thailand and all but 2 that live here claim the yearly increase and some for 15 years or more. Good luck to them, they deserve it, there is no logic behind it.

18 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Incorrect. If I live across the water in the Phillipines it is not frozen. Same as Canada/USA. and quite a few others.

18 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Incorrect. If I live across the water in the Phillipines it is not frozen. Same as Canada/USA. and quite a few others.

18 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Incorrect. If I live across the water in the Phillipines it is not frozen. Same as Canada/USA. and quite a few others.

Yes. Hence I said most. Maybe I should have said many? Or maybe in some countries?

Once again, I am not saying it is right, I am saying it was a condition for “some” who chose to live overseas.

This is a cruel and heartless policy meant to punish those who decide not to stay in the UK and support the nation. In reality expats who live overseas are less of a burden on the system as they're not using healthcare and other benefits, and they should be rewarded for that, not penalized.

What your artical fails to say is had these people decided to retire to the Philippines instead of Thailand or America instead of Canada their pensions would increase

Strange when it suits government reciprocal agreements such as where they pay income tax on their income do apply.

These people save the UK government on average £3000 per annum, that sum is far more than the uk government save by not paying annual increases, because the do not use the NHS but instead pay for their health care.

We paid NI when we were working that helped pay for this lots parents in retirement but they dont want to pay for ours.

Incidentally they all have a right to vote in a general election guess who they won't be voting for.

Vote liberal next time because they are on side. Labour are finished i am pleased to say 500,000 votes could be the difference between being the ruling party or being a has been one, are you listening Mr Starmer.

2 hours ago, CecilM said:

Makes sense. Since you don't spend the pension money in the UK, why should the gov't support your overseas lifestyle?

Try reading my artical and may be you will change your mind

I can't see this government changing position on this. Sir Stammer knows that the majority of pensioners vote Tory so he is attacking them from all sides.

He tried reducing the heating allowance for the OAPs but the backlash was too hot..... Then Liebour didn't increase the tax thresholds so millions of pensioners now pay tax that they didn't pay before.

Stammer said in the Mandelson files drop, " Who can i tax to pay the benefits?" His obvious target is the pensioners! 😡

Part and parcel of ending the ability to pay voluntary Class 2 NI contributions while living overseas, which took effect from 6 April this year (although HMRC are still taking the direct debit Class 2 amount from me).

"These changes promote fairness by ensuring that individuals building a State Pension from outside the UK have a sufficient link to the UK and are paying a fairer price to do so."

As many posters have commented, people choosing to live overseas are reducing the financial burden on NHS and social care services: not sure how making those people pay the same as someone working and living in the uk equates to 'paying a fairer price'.

HMRC say they will contact people paying voluntary Class 2 from overseas in July 2026 regarding the closure of their Class 2 liability and the option to start paying Class 3 National Insurance contributions (basically will now cost about £1,000 a year as opposed to around £20).

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions-for-periods-abroad-from-6-april-2026/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions-abroad-from-6-april-2026

2 hours ago, riverhigh said:

I'm not from the UK but imho every UK expat living in Thailand has the right to be upset. They contributed to the pension plan during their working life under the same rules as UK residents and must be treated the same. If person "A" contributes 30,000 pounds over a lifetime same as perdon "B" then they must receive the same regardless where they live. The fact that a retiree living in the Philippines gets more than a retiree in Thailand is both unfair and discriminatory.

So freeze the pension in the Philippines.

Life isn't always fair. Deal with it.

2 hours ago, CecilM said:

Makes sense. Since you don't spend the pension money in the UK, why should the gov't support your overseas lifestyle?

Neither do those pensioners living abroad where upgrades are possible. Also those living abroad are not allowed to use the NHS for free, no free bus passes, no winter fuel payments, no use of public infrastructure etc etc. The govt gets a cheap deal from not paying pension upgrades for UK citizens living in many foreign countries.

58 minutes ago, impulse said:

I may not agree with the policy. But there is a logic behind it.

This was a view from the court in the Carson case, not that it did any good.

The fact that she does not reside in the UK does not incur any additional costs for the State. While it is true that she is no longer a UK taxpayer, there are no prohibitions — under our Convention — on imposing a UK tax on her UK-based income, whatever its amount. But unlike those who have remained in the UK, she has been deprived of the index-linking privilege.

Considerations of social justice and equity require that persons who have duly contributed towards the pensions of others should not be treated differently in the subsequent calculation of their own pension. Differential treatment based solely on current residence has no link to the contributory nature of pensions and, therefore, is deprived of a reasonable justification.

CASE OF CARSON AND OTHERS v. THE UNITED KINGDOM

53 minutes ago, Surasak said:

And what happens when someone comes knocking, which is possible.?

knocking where? on the door of UK post ? lol stop worrying , Sounds like you have never done anything illegal, a bit of a flapper maybe?

I'm not from the UK but feel this is very unfair to pensioners that have paid into the system ALL their working lives. Just because they live in a foreign country does not warrant freezing increasing their pension.

IMO this is coming from a government that now pays out more in benefits than it takes in and doesn't know how to stop the problem. To me it's simple, get the freeloaders that have never contributed to the UK system off your programs. A LOT of immigrants to the UK don't work and only take from the system, it's unsustainable at the current rate.

And to the person that said, "Makes sense. You don't spend the pension money in the UK, why should the government support your overseas lifestyle." that's just a ridiculous statement, a person works all their life, pays into the system for 30-40 years, receives a pension, and should be able to live their remaining life--which is realistically 15-20 years, wherever they want, shouldn't matter what country it is.

1 hour ago, 1happykamper said:

..and they are also not a drain on ANY public services... especially the NHS. In other words any expat is not in any way a liability to their homeland. Where they spend their government pension is fk all to do with any government.

And for many UK retirees in Thailand, should they get sick, is to be on the first plane back and use the Health System.

I don't see the UK Government dictating where or how you spend your pension.

17 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

You claim not to be a fool?

But you came here not knowing what will happens with your financial situation when it comes to pension?

How would YOU call a person like this?

Only a fool maybe for trusting their government, not for not checking the fine print..........

1 hour ago, nausea said:

It's a false economy, regarding Thailand at least. If I go back to the UK, it's going to cost them a hell of a lot more than I cost at the moment.

That is true, but the money you spend will circulate in the local economy, not supporting a foreign country's economy.