Phuket Police Seize Over 5,000 Fake Credit Cards

[jii]

just amazed how most of the forum members just blindly believe all the stories that are published here. really shows that many of foruum members have llittel actually hands on experience with thailand. defenitely having lived here for 13 years more than not the stories we read are half truths and outright lies. i demand that every single story that is published in thai visa news to be first be sent thru a peer review board before it is just blindly given the ok seal. and further if the only source of the info thais and especially court certifed pathological lieing police officers that is also stated. again after 13 years now the evidence is overwhelming of what is real in the end and what was written. and so many many times the stories change. first its ie he was caught with 4 kg of herion, then its no after checking it was actually hash. then its well we got the wrong guy its was actually this other guy that did it.

thai visa news is not a news agency. they will publish anything without any fact checkers.

I am not commenting on the police / bribe thing - we don't know what happened so why speculate?

I am surprised though that these guys apparently got PIN numbers on a mass scale. That's new and troubling and I am sure the Banks and or insurance agencies are very interested in finding out how that happened. At the same time they are also very interested in keeping any findings to themselves, so don't expect this to be public knowledge anytime soon.

PINs, as has been noted, are not on the cards. A card can be replicated by just picking up an old receipt of yours or getting the card # and name some other way. Very easy.

One type of crime that has been around forever is to make fake cards and use them to buy stuff (and then presumably sell that stuff). Old news. Keep your receipts, and if it happens the card issuer will give you no trouble and return the money and lock the card.

The other type of crime, using the card at an ATM, is new, and completely different - they got your PIN from somewhere. Could be readers set up / attached to an ATM, but those are hard to hide, especially over a long period.

I also heard of an incident in the UK where someone at the post office basically intercepted the letters the bank sends out with the PIN on it. Those letters were apparently very easy to spot - a major flaw in the system and in Britain, I know for a fact that it got exploited once. I would think that that's not possible anymore though...

[OzMan_Bkk]

Lots of discussions about Thai banks. The original story said 3 foreigners using fake cards with details from UK cards were taking money from accounts. Nothing to do with Thai banks. I have banked with several banks in Thailand over the past 12 plus years. The only problem I have had is their almost religious adherence to rules and regulations. Rules and regulations written in the 60s when systems were manual and never updated.

I worked in an Australian bank for 25 years, the last 8 in a card centre. I then worked for a card manufacturer in Oz for 3 years and one in Thailand for 4 years. I can attest to the fact that it isn't difficult for people to get your card details. These crooks apparently, once again from the original story, had several flash drives and also encoding equipment. A nifty little card bureau. There is no doubt in my mind that they had someone inside the bank in the UK. NOT in Thailand. The reason Visa and MasterCard are pushing chips is that the mag stripe technology has been totally compromised. It is always a case of banks trying to stay one step ahead of the fraudsters. It is a never ending battle.

Using my experience as my credentials I would suggest to tourists that you work out your budget and buy Travellers Cheques. ONLY use a Credit/Debit card to purchase that special item that you really can't go home without. When you get home carefully check your statements and immediately request a charge-back on any item you don't believe is yours - and you thought cards made life easier.

[hardy1943]

What they should do give everyone 25 years in a Thai prison with out early release

mabe that would make the next guys think twice of doing it.

Gongratulation to the policemen for not taking a bribe.

[TAWP]

Getting card-info is a biz in europe and shouldn't be blaimed on Thai banks in any way.

One guy that got caught was saving the logs on the cashier-side in a foodstore and often made sure to 'force a fail' when someone entered their PIN, so he had to help them i.e. would draw the card on his side. This allowed him to quickly flip over the card and spot the ccv2 and memorize it to be quickly written down a few moments later.

And rigged ATMs in Scandinavia...are usually done by east-euros.

FYI: A card, with name, expiration and ccv2-code goes for $4 [some 2 years back] when picked up bulk. Missing the ccv2 and you get a lot less.

[hkt83100]

PIN NUMBERS ARE *NOT* ENCODED ON ATM OR CREDIT CARDS.

Your shift-key is stuck, please bring your keyboard in for repair. In the beginning of Usenet writing ALL-UPPERCASE was considered to be shouting at other and being unpolite. And - by the way - it is hard to read.

Thank you and greetings from Phuket.

[BlissfullyIgnorant]

5000+ UK credit cards successfully copied by Sri Lankans. Anyone else suspect the security leak probably lies in an outsourcing center in India somewhere? I think I'll stick to the Thai banks - at least you know they won't be outsourcing your private information to India or the Phillipines.

[naka]

Lots of discussions about Thai banks. The original story said 3 foreigners using fake cards with details from UK cards were taking money from accounts. Nothing to do with Thai banks. I have banked with several banks in Thailand over the past 12 plus years. The only problem I have had is their almost religious adherence to rules and regulations. Rules and regulations written in the 60s when systems were manual and never updated.

I worked in an Australian bank for 25 years, the last 8 in a card centre. I then worked for a card manufacturer in Oz for 3 years and one in Thailand for 4 years. I can attest to the fact that it isn't difficult for people to get your card details. These crooks apparently, once again from the original story, had several flash drives and also encoding equipment. A nifty little card bureau. There is no doubt in my mind that they had someone inside the bank in the UK. NOT in Thailand. The reason Visa and MasterCard are pushing chips is that the mag stripe technology has been totally compromised. It is always a case of banks trying to stay one step ahead of the fraudsters. It is a never ending battle.

Using my experience as my credentials I would suggest to tourists that you work out your budget and buy Travellers Cheques. ONLY use a Credit/Debit card to purchase that special item that you really can't go home without. When you get home carefully check your statements and immediately request a charge-back on any item you don't believe is yours - and you thought cards made life easier.

OzMan, Agree with your comments but I understood that all UK cards were now chip and pin.

Naka.

[jii]

PIN NUMBERS ARE *NOT* ENCODED ON ATM OR CREDIT CARDS.

Your shift-key is stuck, please bring your keyboard in for repair. In the beginning of Usenet writing ALL-UPPERCASE was considered to be shouting at other and being unpolite. And - by the way - it is hard to read.

Thank you and greetings from Phuket.

TOTALLLY DISAGREE. HE WAS JUST STATING A FACT. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE CONTENT NOT THE PACKAGING. BY THE WAY I FIND IT EASIER TO READ. ACTUALLY WHEN I WRITE LETTERS I ALWAYS USE THE UPPER CASE. AND DID YOU NOTICE THAN ANY FORM FOR A BANK OR IMMIGRATION ALWAYS STATE YOU MUST WRITE IN UPPERCASE. SHOULD WE TAKE YOUR SUGGESTION AND NOT TO BE RUDE TO THE BANK START FILING IT IN IN LOWERCASE LETTERS.

[ssparks111]

Everyone here so far is really missing an obvious point. This has nothing to do with "grand schemes" or "British bank employees" or an army of people hanging out at ATM's trying to look over your shoulder to get your PIN info. It's happening in Thailand because, that's where they want to be. This can happen EASILY in ANY country, these particular guys just happened to like Thailand, so they came here.

It is ABSOLUTELY NOT NECESSARY for these guys to know the original PIN that goes with the card. It is extremely easy to withdrawl money from an ATM with a credit card without knowing the PIN, and no, it has nothing to do with "guessing" the obvious PIN. That would take, what, about 6 months to do with a 4-digit PIN? I have recently opened up accounts in Japan and China, and both of these are now using 6-digit PINs. It doesn't matter, though, it could be a 20-digit PIN and it would be just as easy. As I mentioned, the PIN with the card is irrelavent, you don't need to know it! I am not going to detail how this is done, because once you know, it is extremely tempting (yes, I have fallen for it in the past. It's how I paid for my first year of university! But I have reformed since then...).

The only way to avoid this is to never use any plastic cards! Since this is not practical, there will always be a way to empty out your bank account.

[boes]

Some banks, like Kasikorn, have a service with their ATM card where they will send you a SMS everytime your card number is used.

Getting a SMS that 100,000Bath is being used to buy a Rolex in Hong Kong while you are sitting on the beach in Pattaya will help you sort this out immediately.

Sounds very secure. Do you know other Thai banks who does the same thing ?

[Phuket Dragon]

Aswell in Belgium and Netherlands they almost finished to swap to chip cards.

But if hackers find out the algoritme from the not know processor on the card the battle is lost and a new card swap must be done.

Dragon.

[sensei]

crooks could easily get your PIN # using a mobile phone with a camera. he could stand behind you pretending to tap on their phone like he's sending a text message while taking a video of you typing your PIN.

[jii]

well if someone can withdraw using an credit card at an atm machine without the pin number thats the very very first ive ever heard of it. i dont believe you. if you dont want to tell us then please provide any aritlce online that proves that this has be done. funny too as their were very major credit card identy thefts gangs working in thailand and all they ever could do was put someelse details on the stripe while a person went to shop to buy something. then all the stuff would just be sold thru a fense. the fense then sells the stuff at a greatly reduced price. so there are many costs and risks. and many people were caught even like this. and getting caught for creidt card and or travlerers check fraud is very serious in thailand. so if the people doing this credit card stuff if they could just withdraw from an atm machine and get the full amount rather than the risk of a shop keeper catching them and expenses of the logistiscis of it all they would stop doing this way and do your way of effortless withdrawal at an atm machine. please provide proof of your claims then ill believe it. only thing could be is that technology is always changing maybe there has been new changes to the atm machines.

Everyone here so far is really missing an obvious point. This has nothing to do with "grand schemes" or "British bank employees" or an army of people hanging out at ATM's trying to look over your shoulder to get your PIN info. It's happening in Thailand because, that's where they want to be. This can happen EASILY in ANY country, these particular guys just happened to like Thailand, so they came here.

It is ABSOLUTELY NOT NECESSARY for these guys to know the original PIN that goes with the card. It is extremely easy to withdrawl money from an ATM with a credit card without knowing the PIN, and no, it has nothing to do with "guessing" the obvious PIN. That would take, what, about 6 months to do with a 4-digit PIN? I have recently opened up accounts in Japan and China, and both of these are now using 6-digit PINs. It doesn't matter, though, it could be a 20-digit PIN and it would be just as easy. As I mentioned, the PIN with the card is irrelavent, you don't need to know it! I am not going to detail how this is done, because once you know, it is extremely tempting (yes, I have fallen for it in the past. It's how I paid for my first year of university! But I have reformed since then...).

The only way to avoid this is to never use any plastic cards! Since this is not practical, there will always be a way to empty out your bank account.

[pumpuiman]

I wonder why these guys were carrying around so many cards. They couldn't possibly use them all in one day.

And why travel with the laptop and equipment while making withdrawals?

Seems the smart criminal would keep things seperate. Only carry a few cards at a time, and work alone.

Maybe they were on their way to sell the cards in bulk?

Something doesn't add up.

[lonewolf]

well if someone can withdraw using an credit card at an atm machine without the pin number thats the very very first ive ever heard of it. i dont believe you. if you dont want to tell us then please provide any aritlce online that proves that this has be done. funny too as their were very major credit card identy thefts gangs working in thailand and all they ever could do was put someelse details on the stripe while a person went to shop to buy something. then all the stuff would just be sold thru a fense. the fense then sells the stuff at a greatly reduced price. so there are many costs and risks. and many people were caught even like this. and getting caught for creidt card and or travlerers check fraud is very serious in thailand. so if the people doing this credit card stuff if they could just withdraw from an atm machine and get the full amount rather than the risk of a shop keeper catching them and expenses of the logistiscis of it all they would stop doing this way and do your way of effortless withdrawal at an atm machine. please provide proof of your claims then ill believe it. only thing could be is that technology is always changing maybe there has been new changes to the atm machines.

Everyone here so far is really missing an obvious point. This has nothing to do with "grand schemes" or "British bank employees" or an army of people hanging out at ATM's trying to look over your shoulder to get your PIN info. It's happening in Thailand because, that's where they want to be. This can happen EASILY in ANY country, these particular guys just happened to like Thailand, so they came here.

It is ABSOLUTELY NOT NECESSARY for these guys to know the original PIN that goes with the card. It is extremely easy to withdrawl money from an ATM with a credit card without knowing the PIN, and no, it has nothing to do with "guessing" the obvious PIN. That would take, what, about 6 months to do with a 4-digit PIN? I have recently opened up accounts in Japan and China, and both of these are now using 6-digit PINs. It doesn't matter, though, it could be a 20-digit PIN and it would be just as easy. As I mentioned, the PIN with the card is irrelavent, you don't need to know it! I am not going to detail how this is done, because once you know, it is extremely tempting (yes, I have fallen for it in the past. It's how I paid for my first year of university! But I have reformed since then...).

The only way to avoid this is to never use any plastic cards! Since this is not practical, there will always be a way to empty out your bank account.

I all, been here short time and just found this site. xcewllent!!! sparks, I am interested in your idea. i also hear of ways to do this. pm me and we can discuss if theyare same.

[deminister]

Wow

Someone withdrew money from an ATM in Chiang Mai 7:00PM 3rd Jan from an ATM in Chiang Mai, using a fake copy of my British ATM card. I discovered this by looking at my Internet banking and noticed a 20,000 baht withdrawal from Chiang Mai Siam City Bank ATM machine - not sure which one.(I dont live in Chiang Mai)

I have now cancelled my card and have requested an investigation by my bank in the UK.

I have no idea how someone could copy my card, replace it and also know the PIN number. It is a normal ATM (debit) bank card, i never use it in shops or over the phone.

the only possibility i can think of is there are some dodgy atms in thailand that have been set up to copy cards and get the numbers

That is a strange statetement. There are no dodgy atm's but there are several methods to skim your card and when people place a small camera they can read your pincode. it is very weird to mention Thailand in one breath. After all this kind of fraud is very very common in Europe and thus in England. ATM cards are skimmed all the time and the pincode copied. It is not limited to thailand, in a matter of fact it happens very little in Thailand. When it comes to Creditcarrds, Malaysia is the creditcard fraud capital of the world.

[Neeranam]

The real news here is that the arresting officers turned down a 2 million Baht bribe! Perhaps there is hope for Thailand after all. I hope those officers get a big time promotion and reward.

I don't believe a word - what happened probably was that the fraudsters refused to pay a 2 million baht fine, which is the going rate for a police pay off for this type of crime.

[BigSnake]

Good Job, Thai police, Thailand has enough crooks and conmen of it own. My money is hard earn, don't want to lose it to these BAD BOYS

[jii]

Wow

Someone withdrew money from an ATM in Chiang Mai 7:00PM 3rd Jan from an ATM in Chiang Mai, using a fake copy of my British ATM card. I discovered this by looking at my Internet banking and noticed a 20,000 baht withdrawal from Chiang Mai Siam City Bank ATM machine - not sure which one.(I dont live in Chiang Mai)

I have now cancelled my card and have requested an investigation by my bank in the UK.

I have no idea how someone could copy my card, replace it and also know the PIN number. It is a normal ATM (debit) bank card, i never use it in shops or over the phone.

the only possibility i can think of is there are some dodgy atms in thailand that have been set up to copy cards and get the numbers

That is a strange statetement. There are no dodgy atm's but there are several methods to skim your card and when people place a small camera they can read your pincode. it is very weird to mention Thailand in one breath. After all this kind of fraud is very very common in Europe and thus in England. ATM cards are skimmed all the time and the pincode copied. It is not limited to thailand, in a matter of fact it happens very little in Thailand. When it comes to Creditcarrds, Malaysia is the creditcard fraud capital of the world.

thats true about malaysia being numero uno for credit card fraud. get this one time when i tried to buy something of ebay. they refused to sell to me in thailand. its a long story. but in the end i got it out of them they did mention that malaysia 1st, thailand 2nd indonesia 3rd for credit card fraud. if they are too be believed. but also i have read too that malaysia besides being numero uno for dvd and vcd pirateed copies also numero uno for credit card fraud and that many customers banks when they say there was item bought in malaysia automatically cancel the card.

[jii]

The real news here is that the arresting officers turned down a 2 million Baht bribe! Perhaps there is hope for Thailand after all. I hope those officers get a big time promotion and reward.

I don't believe a word - what happened probably was that the fraudsters refused to pay a 2 million baht fine, which is the going rate for a police pay off for this type of crime.

you on the right track. i just dont understand why forum member just blindly believe everything they read in these thailand articles. do they have any experience dealing with thais?

[ilyushin]

I know one guy with about that many legal credit cards. No the number is high and a serious bust to the bigger ring.

Glad the BiB did a great job.

[ZZZ]

I wonder why these guys were carrying around so many cards. They couldn't possibly use them all in one day.

And why travel with the laptop and equipment while making withdrawals?

Seems the smart criminal would keep things seperate. Only carry a few cards at a time, and work alone.

Maybe they were on their way to sell the cards in bulk?

Something doesn't add up.

Who said they were smart criminals?

[ZZZ]

Some banks, like Kasikorn, have a service with their ATM card where they will send you a SMS everytime your card number is used.

Getting a SMS that 100,000Bath is being used to buy a Rolex in Hong Kong while you are sitting on the beach in Pattaya will help you sort this out immediately.

Sounds very secure. Do you know other Thai banks who does the same thing ?

Not sure about the other banks as I only use Kasikorn.

Have a look around at bank web sites or maybe someone else have experince with other banks ?

[oevna]

Some banks, like Kasikorn, have a service with their ATM card where they will send you a SMS everytime your card number is used.

Getting a SMS that 100,000Bath is being used to buy a Rolex in Hong Kong while you are sitting on the beach in Pattaya will help you sort this out immediately.

Now, that is a fantastic idea!

-oevna

[ZZZ]

Getting card-info is a biz in europe and shouldn't be blaimed on Thai banks in any way.

One guy that got caught was saving the logs on the cashier-side in a foodstore and often made sure to 'force a fail' when someone entered their PIN, so he had to help them i.e. would draw the card on his side. This allowed him to quickly flip over the card and spot the ccv2 and memorize it to be quickly written down a few moments later.

And rigged ATMs in Scandinavia...are usually done by east-euros.

FYI: A card, with name, expiration and ccv2-code goes for $4 [some 2 years back] when picked up bulk. Missing the ccv2 and you get a lot less.

To make your credit card less valuable for criminals you should remove the cvv2 number from the back of the credit card. This number is not recorded on the magnetic strip and without it it will be much less likely that the card, or card number, will be used by criminals.

Don't forget to memorize or make a note of the cvv2 number before removing it

[jii]

Getting card-info is a biz in europe and shouldn't be blaimed on Thai banks in any way.

One guy that got caught was saving the logs on the cashier-side in a foodstore and often made sure to 'force a fail' when someone entered their PIN, so he had to help them i.e. would draw the card on his side. This allowed him to quickly flip over the card and spot the ccv2 and memorize it to be quickly written down a few moments later.

And rigged ATMs in Scandinavia...are usually done by east-euros.

FYI: A card, with name, expiration and ccv2-code goes for $4 [some 2 years back] when picked up bulk. Missing the ccv2 and you get a lot less.

To make your credit card less valuable for criminals you should remove the cvv2 number from the back of the credit card. This number is not recorded on the magnetic strip and without it it will be much less likely that the card, or card number, will be used by criminals.

Don't forget to memorize or make a note of the cvv2 number before removing it

thats only slightly helpful. most of the credit card fraud of identity theft the info on the cards come from people working inside the bank.

[CTM]

My u.k nationwide debit card was cloned IN u.k but the money was withdrawn in thailand.

Happened last month,they withdrew nearly 1000 british pounds in 20,000 baht withdraws,in Pattaya.

Im sure it was shopkeepers in the shop with either a fake pin machine which reads your card then the pin as you key it in,or they watched me key in the number(an easy one).

There has been loads of it going on in Maidenhead,berks,at nationwide they said about 2 people a day coming in with having their card cloned.They even put fake plastic atm fronts ontop of the real atm machine so when you put in your card it reads the information and have a hidden camera to see pin no.

These have been found in my town and i always am check before putting my card in.This is why i know it was cloned in a shop(off license) i think i know which one.Now i never use the card in shops,if you have to completely cover your hand,the shop i think it is even has a camera over the till on ceiling,maybe they used this ?

The cards are probably sold on to gangs who take them abroad...Thailand.

LOL Is that what you told the wife?

[MrOzark]

Ozman - Thanks for being so helpful!

Lots of discussions about Thai banks. The original story said 3 foreigners using fake cards with details from UK cards were taking money from accounts. Nothing to do with Thai banks. I have banked with several banks in Thailand over the past 12 plus years. The only problem I have had is their almost religious adherence to rules and regulations. Rules and regulations written in the 60s when systems were manual and never updated.

I worked in an Australian bank for 25 years, the last 8 in a card centre. I then worked for a card manufacturer in Oz for 3 years and one in Thailand for 4 years. I can attest to the fact that it isn't difficult for people to get your card details. These crooks apparently, once again from the original story, had several flash drives and also encoding equipment. A nifty little card bureau. There is no doubt in my mind that they had someone inside the bank in the UK. NOT in Thailand. The reason Visa and MasterCard are pushing chips is that the mag stripe technology has been totally compromised. It is always a case of banks trying to stay one step ahead of the fraudsters. It is a never ending battle.

Using my experience as my credentials I would suggest to tourists that you work out your budget and buy Travellers Cheques. ONLY use a Credit/Debit card to purchase that special item that you really can't go home without. When you get home carefully check your statements and immediately request a charge-back on any item you don't believe is yours - and you thought cards made life easier.

[CTM]

Wow

Someone withdrew money from an ATM in Chiang Mai 7:00PM 3rd Jan from an ATM in Chiang Mai, using a fake copy of my British ATM card. I discovered this by looking at my Internet banking and noticed a 20,000 baht withdrawal from Chiang Mai Siam City Bank ATM machine - not sure which one.(I dont live in Chiang Mai)

I have now cancelled my card and have requested an investigation by my bank in the UK.

I have no idea how someone could copy my card, replace it and also know the PIN number. It is a normal ATM (debit) bank card, i never use it in shops or over the phone.

the only possibility i can think of is there are some dodgy atms in thailand that have been set up to copy cards and get the numbers

Are you sure you weren't drunk? Know how english love the drink and benders.

[KK-Mike]

all i will say on this subject is the police need to determine where these phuckers are getting the card information from, I find it very har to believe that it is coming from watching people at atm's........there are just too many, i suspect they are getting info from IT people in thai banks and they are sellling it, the police really need to ivestigate this and publish the results, or maybe they don't want too............................i say again, there is no way these cards are being cloned from ATM's

anyone that has influence with the police needs to push this as far as they can

this is just another nail in the never ending corruption coffin of Thailand, the police really need to expose every aspect of this crime to the puiblic...............everybody. and lock people up, if you cannot trust a bank ... where are we

i for one will be very reluctant to put any money in a thai back until the prove to me it is safe

Never say NEVER! While traveling in Florida, USA I used my credit card to buy gasoline, the kind of pump where you put the card into the special slot for cards. No pin number was needed. When I got home the next day my bank called with news that my card # was being used in Miami, Fl??? The card information was stolen at the gas pump and used within a few hours 300 miles in the opposire direction of my travel. I do not know how they did it, but the bank said it was not uncommon these days.

Photo copy centers here in Thailand are another source of information for thieves. My wifes ID was stolen while having some photocopies made to buy our house, and the thieves bought a DTAC phone, now we get bills for 5.500 Baht. Had to go to police station and DTAC to get the matter cleared up. ( hopefully )