The Thai Government Says I Must Go Away.

[p_brownstone]

5.) Become a School teacher at a local school or University. An excellent solution since your Thai is flawless, your are a University Graduate and you have the contacts to find the job.

My Thai is terrible, but I have enough technical skills that this would be feasible. I would have to teach in English.

Well, that’s another huge black mark in your book old son – and something which will definitely not impress any Immigration Officer to whom you plead your case.

You have been in Thailand (Roi-et?) 17 years and not bothered to learn the language!?

Yet you expect Immigration and others to make exceptions to the Law in your case because of your “commitment” to the Country?

Patrick

[tim77]

Andy . . .

We met many years ago in Bangkok, and all I can do now is to wish you the best.

I too know people who have relied on the longstanding 30 day visa rule. Like you some of these people support extended families of dozens (in one individuals case, 25 people).

I know of one man who is over 50, and owned assets outside of Thailand which he could have used to get a retirement visa. Instead he sold his assets so that he could pay for cancer surgury for the father of his Thai girl friend. His income is not regular, and does not meet the retirement financial requirements. Now Thailand does not want him to stay.

I know another man, who worked for some 20 years for the Thai government. He owns a small parcel of land where he live. He too is over 50, but can not meet the retirement financial requirements.

A lot of very fine people have made Thailand their home, by relying on the 30 day entry program.

For those of you who think you are ok because you are now able to comply . . .think about the following.

Everyone who owns a house on the company scheme is now in danger. The Thai govenment is now considering changing the voting rights requirement under the Foreign Business Act. If they change the requirment for whatever your house holding company is doing, . . . . .you may be deeply unhappy. Or you may find it more difficult to sell the house you now have to a non-Thai.

I have made my call . . .After 15 years, I left Thailand, even though I could meet the present visa program requirements. . . . .

[JaiGuru]

Ya.... I know.....I had enough time to figure it out...Not true !!!

How about 5 years to marry your "girlfriend?"

[thaihome]

here we go .............

Well said Mid.

We don't half get some smug gits on here I,m ok jack f the rest of U.

One day my friend u may just need help from forums like this

If this happened in a western country ( especially mine) the press would crucify the government.

So would the human rights people.

Which has led to the development of the very attitude of the OP, namely nothing is ever my fault and the government is responsible to take care of everything for me.

It is this lack of such culture in Asia that many of us actually appreciate and why we continue to live here. This is why we react somewhat negatively to such self serving posts as the OP’s.

Don’t get me wrong, I am fully sympathetic with the OP and as a life long world class procrastinator myself, I found myself having seriously screwed my life up because of inaction on my part. But you cannot blame this on anyone but yourself.

TH

[PREM-R]

This thread was posted a few days ago and may offer a solution for the OP Multi 'O' obtained

[pumpuiman]

Andy,

You consider marriage so sacred that your willing to leave your family over a piece of paper?

You think work is "yucky"?

You would start a business and solve your problems..but, you "Hate" dealing with government.

Your excuses are lame. You dont seem willing to make sacrifices for your family because it will make you feel "yucky" or unhappy.

Put down the violin and do something about it.

The new rules suck, they are not fair...end of story. Now what can you do about it?

Or I guess the question is what are you willing to do?

[ttthailand]

Ya.... I know.....I had enough time to figure it out...Not true !!!

How about 5 years to marry your "girlfriend?"

I am not saying I don't have any options. My girlfriend is great and that might be one option. I however don't really believe in marrage. I got bit once and it was a major bite with a long recovery.

I posted my story to let people know that there are other people in Thailand who have played by the rules and did everything correctly but can still run into problems. I knew after closing my company that I would need or should fix my problem at some point.

I am currently out of the country thinking about my options. I may try to get another 60 day tourist visa in America or just take my chances and fly to Thailand hoping I don't run into problems at the airport. If they go by the 90 day in 90 day out I should be fine but after reading some of the stories I don't think anything is for sure. I think everyone needs to worry.

Think about, in the last year we have had problems with owning companies, investing and this visa issue. What will happen next ?

I try to look at this in a positive way but it is difficult. as I have been sitting around her joying life and thinking it may go away

One good thing is that this will push me to do something.

[Mid]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

[cdnvic]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

No amount of concern, hand-wringing, or complaining will change the fact that the Andys need to get themselves legal somehow. Commiserating endlessly on what the Thai government should do won't help raise their kids.

[ttthailand]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

Great Question !!!

Something however will have to give at some point.

[Mid]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

No amount of concern, hand-wringing, or complaining will change the fact that the Andys need to get themselves legal somehow. Commiserating endlessly on what the Thai government should do won't help raise their kids.

missed my point .............

what happens to the supporties when the supporter takes option 2 and leaves ??

[pumpuiman]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

I think there is a lot of genuine concern. I personally think it stinks. My Thai wife agrees with me. It's heartbreaking to think about families being divided, of support disappearing. The government has clearly not thought this through.

But,....my earlier post was directed at the OP personally. He has several avenues of escape....avenues others dont have, and would love to take advantage of.

His complaints will get him nowhere.....he needs to take action. Running away to Cambodia for months at a time doesn't sound responsible to me. If in fact he does choose the option of leaving the country, a part time job in his home country might better financially support his family.

I'm sorry if I sound as if I dont care....I do. I care for the welfare of his family. If it were mine I would be doing something constructive about the problem.

[cdnvic]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

No amount of concern, hand-wringing, or complaining will change the fact that the Andys need to get themselves legal somehow. Commiserating endlessly on what the Thai government should do won't help raise their kids.

missed my point .............

what happens to the supporties when the supporter takes option 2 and leaves ??

His family gets ripped apart, his kids feel abandoned, and if you couple that with the lack of parental guidence in life the future does not bode well for them.

All the more reason that people like Andy should be making plans, not excuses.

[Harmony]

As you have already written in to the Immigration, you would be receiving a reply soon. Ask for a personal interview, which would probably be granted, the rest is up to your skills in portraying a genuine situation. If you rehearse the answers to all the likely possible questions you might be surprised at the outcome. In my 30 yrs here, I have found the Thai’s to be though but sympathetic and fair. Rub them the wrong way, you meet a Concrete wall. In all fairness the Immigration officer needs a genuine reason to justify any action to assist you, without repercussion to him. They are more than human in this respect, try my approach, what can you lose.

PLEAD YOUR CASE WELL.

And good luck.

[pumpuiman]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

No amount of concern, hand-wringing, or complaining will change the fact that the Andys need to get themselves legal somehow. Commiserating endlessly on what the Thai government should do won't help raise their kids.

missed my point .............

what happens to the supporties when the supporter takes option 2 and leaves ??

I would continue support by mail or other means, until I found a solution.

[ttthailand]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

No amount of concern, hand-wringing, or complaining will change the fact that the Andys need to get themselves legal somehow. Commiserating endlessly on what the Thai government should do won't help raise their kids.

Many guys I know are raising other peoples children. They enjoy their life here with their girlfriend and would like to continue helping out the family but if it gets to be too much of a problem they will move on. Not everyone is committed 100% to this life. There are many who I think will call it a day and move on.

[tamaique]

I believe that they do monitor this site from time to time. Question is.....are they on now?

I learn a little from those who agree with me. I learn more from those who disagree. I learn the most from those who hate me. Teach me, please.

A very Christian quote but...

Why am I getting the feeling that the only purpose behind your responses is to incite a bunch of follow-up, so your post will remain at the top and the "government officials that spy on thaivisa.com" will read the letter??

Your apparent extreme honesty (i.e. Working for coorporations is yucky, owning your own business is yucky, etc. etc.) seems to me to be a purposeful string of baits to keep us arguing out your topic.

There are two kinds of problems, those that have a solution and those that don't. If your problem has a solution, don't worry, solve it. If your problem doesn't have a solution, why worry?

YOUR visa problem HAS a solution.

Edited January 9, 2007 by tamaique

[Scott]

I am one of those 'get legal or get out' people--sort of. I certainly think people should make their stay (anywhere) legal. I also recognize that these visa regulations and laws, whenever and where ever they are instituted, are like a line drawn in the sand. Some people fall on one side and some on the other. There are always winners and losers. There are always cases which are very sad and unfair. There are always people who will get hurt. This case seems to be one of those and I wish the best for you and your extended family.

I think people need to remember that for a lot of folks, they aren't seers or mind readers or psychics. Things went along as they did for a long, long time. It's not just their innate "stupidity".

I think those people who are currently in places like Cambodia might want to sit up and pay attention. Development does this to countries. They get picky.

The thing is, in the future, a lot of people won't be able to stay and start the families and other connections. That's when the laws and regulations will make more sense and there will be fewer people hurt.

[Mai Krap]

Im sorry but this thread is just way to much drama, I understand the OP is currently still in Thailand is he not? Whats the fuss, go sit on your asss in Laos for 90 days and come back, helll the family might enjoy the road trip. I for one may not care for the way things are being done and I might bitch about it until Taiwan takes a direct hit and shuts me off the Interweb but I'll be dammed if I gonna cry or sound fussy about it, Even Saddam told the gatekeepers to go to helll on his final exit!

[thaihome]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

No amount of concern, hand-wringing, or complaining will change the fact that the Andys need to get themselves legal somehow. Commiserating endlessly on what the Thai government should do won't help raise their kids.

missed my point .............

what happens to the supporties when the supporter takes option 2 and leaves ??

Then that will be his decision and he will have to live with the consequences and impact to people dependant on him. It has been proven time and again here that in virtually every case, there is a solution to be able to stay. To say the Thai government is forcing people to abandon their responsibilities is just not true

TH

[astral]

I don't have a great deal of sympathy here.

1. Get a job and a work permit.

How have you been supporting all these people for all these years??

2. If the OP has a girlfreind then get married, that will simplify the work, income and visa situation.

3. If the OP has been here for 17 years he is no spring chicken. What about a retirement visa?

There are many possibilities and the OP has had 3 months warning to make plans.

Why is it only now that he is panicking??

[Mid]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

No amount of concern, hand-wringing, or complaining will change the fact that the Andys need to get themselves legal somehow. Commiserating endlessly on what the Thai government should do won't help raise their kids.

missed my point .............

what happens to the supporties when the supporter takes option 2 and leaves ??

Then that will be his decision and he will have to live with the consequences and impact to people dependant on him. It has been proven time and again here that in virtually every case, there is a solution to be able to stay. To say the Thai government is forcing people to abandon their responsibilities is just not true

TH

all very well ,

however ,

you also fail to address the consequences for the dependants .......................

spelling edit

Edited January 9, 2007 by Mid

[Tod Daniels]

While it is indeed a thought provoking, heart wretching, tear jerker of story, it certainly high-lites the perils of taking for granted the oh-so fickle government(s) of any 'developing' third world country and what that can lead to.

I am in NO WAY saying the O/P was wrong by using a system which until recently was 'promoted' by immigrations officers at walk across borders as "easy to stay, long time here"; only that in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" as with anywhere, things can & do change, rarely for the better.

I am not casting any negative light on your post I am questioning your statement; "In November Savannakhet told me that that was not correct, and later Bangkok confirmed it was wrong."

I have been in and out of Thailand dozens of times on my Non-O visa's since starting my 3rd year here. I have never ever been questioned about the validity of my visa once it was in my passport. Nor have I ever heard of anyone having to prove HOW they were justified in having the type of visa they had already stamped into their passport at a border crossing. Did you have a single entry 90 day Non-O visa or am I not understanding your post??

Although I am far from a math major, his crossing a border at least every other month for 17 years is nearly 100 border runs! Even living in "Nahkon NoWhere" on the banks of the Mekong River, why would you do semi- monthly border crossings all that time, without ever pursuing another option to stay long term?

It is admirable he supports the people he does, I am NOT demeaning that fact in the least. It not as admirable (to me at least) that he can sing the national anthem. After being here for as long as he has, hearing it at 8am & 6pm every day, he's heard that song about 12,400+ times. He then states in a later post; "My Thai is terrible". How have you survived here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" the past 17 years speaking 'pidgin engrish' & two word thai sentences?

Your plight at immigrations during which you indicated the officer yelled at you & stormed out of the room is remarkable. I cannot even think of a situation in the time I've been here where a thai in an official capacity; Regular Police, Tourist Police, Immigrations Officials, Government Officials, EVER even raised their voice to me, let alone showed the slightest anger.

Without the monetary handouts or support he gives Grandma Loy, Grandpa Noopy, Ning, Lon, & Chaliew each month they will not go hungry, nor miss a single meal. Rural communities have a 'take care of their own attitude' which far surpasses anything in the Western world. The children will not in all likelyhood turn up in Bangkok begging on the Sukhumvit near my house either. They will continue their existence as do all people when faced with major changes in their lives, via the resorcefulness everyone has to overcome set backs.

I find it sad he has a child here. I would expect the child has rights from his father's country of origin if he is registered as the father and if indeed "The Thai government says he must go away".

I find it sadder still he's done nothing in all his 17 years here to straighten this out before breaking into the chorus; "The Thai government says I must go away". The O/P's problem has a solution or several different ones depending on what he chooses and good ideas have been pointed out by the responses to his post. If you are unable/unwilling to pursue any of those avenues; "The Thai government says U must go away".

Dear readers, NEVER EVER, even for a single milli-second, forget this is Thailand; better stated as the glorious "Land 'O Thais". We are NOT Thai, we will never be Thai, we will never be citizens, we will always have minimal rights, face endless restrictions, and will be judged by a completely different 'play book' altogether. It IS their country. Granted their continually moving the goal posts make it hard to keep up. However, the changes in enforcement did NOT magically appear one day and were enforced the same day, at least they gave warning, which is something to be thankful for.

Please don't think my cryptic, ascerbic response is lacking compassion or concern. I may write with a disparaging vein about the glorious "Land 'O Thais" but it is a place I call home as well.

[cdnvic]

all very well ,

however ,

you also fail to address the consequences for the dependants .......................

spelling edit

What does asking this nebulous question (that's been answered already) over and over again do to help the OP? His depandants are his responsibility, nobody elses.

Edited January 9, 2007 by cdnvic

[steveromagnino]

nobody has questioned / supplied answers for ,

who will pick up the slack when the ' Andy's ' are forced out of the country .

is there no concern for the numerous locals being supported by people in this situation ??

I have family in Isaan; I know what conditions are like. Dependents should sort their own issues out for the most part; laziness and reliance on someone else (rich farang, social welfare, debt forgiveness, temple, family loans never to be paid back, etc) is a crutch.

These dependents should throw the crutch away, and do what most people do...get a job, work hard, save money, don't waste it all on booze/lottery/etc. Some people here would do well to stop regarding themselves as some sort of saint running a charity; a crutch is a prop which stops some people from learning to walk for themselves.

Of course there are exceptions, but then again, there are exceptions to everything; to arge that a few people (and it is a pretty small number) will lose anytherefore the law is wrong makes no sense. Just because I drive well when drunk, should they legalise drunk driving? Just because I like smoking crack and don't run around like a madman, should they legalise that?

The exact same argument of 'what should happen to the dependents' could be made in the case of illegal immigration worldwide; the answer is that the provider should try to go legal. Numerous options have been offered to Andy, but anyone that says 'working for a corporation is yucky' clearly has far higher standards than most.

Reality check: the economic impact will not be great, life will go on; therefore, go legal, go underground or go, but it is fairly pointless to think you can argue Thai Immigration into submission when there really is not much at stake for them to lose.

[pedro01]

Andy,

You consider marriage so sacred that your willing to leave your family over a piece of paper?

You think work is "yucky"?

You would start a business and solve your problems..but, you "Hate" dealing with government.

Your excuses are lame. You dont seem willing to make sacrifices for your family because it will make you feel "yucky" or unhappy.

Put down the violin and do something about it.

The new rules suck, they are not fair...end of story. Now what can you do about it?

Or I guess the question is what are you willing to do?

Exactly !

[Mid]

all very well ,

however ,

you also fail to address the consequences for the dependants .......................

spelling edit

What does asking this nebulous question (that's been answered already) over and over again do to help the OP? His depandants are his responsibility, nobody elses.

agreed that his child is his responsibility ,

however if you read the OP's post he is supporting others whom he has no responsibility to ........

given that ' Andy's ' are considerable in number , there will be consequences to innocent third parties that are also considerable in number .

Who will care for them ?????????????

[simon43]

On a more general note, may I suggest to everyone who intends to make Thailand their home for the forseeable future, that they learn the Thai language! By that, I mean learn to speak Thai well, learn to read/write Thai to a reasonable degree.

It irks me that I meet many 'farang' who have lived in LoS for years, (often 10 or 20 years+), and can still only speak one or two words of Thai. What sort of commitment to the country does that show?

Learn Thai, understand (not neccessarily agree with) the culture, and you stand a far better chance of integrating with the Thai community. Make Thai friends (who can help you out in time of need) etc.

It's not difficult . . . especially if you have 17 years to do it in!

Simon

[cdnvic]

all very well ,

however ,

you also fail to address the consequences for the dependants .......................

spelling edit

What does asking this nebulous question (that's been answered already) over and over again do to help the OP? His depandants are his responsibility, nobody elses.

agreed that his child is his responsibility ,

however if you read the OP's post he is supporting others whom he has no responsibility to ........

given that ' Andy's ' are considerable in number , there will be consequences to innocent third parties that are also considerable in number .

Who will care for them ?????????????

That's up to the family, but even if there was nobody, and the kids are headed to an orphanage, it doesn't change the fact that Andy has to get off his ass and stop making excuses.

[thai_narak]

Dear readers, NEVER EVER, even for a single milli-second, forget this is Thailand; better stated as the glorious "Land 'O Thais". We are NOT Thai, we will never be Thai, we will never be citizens, we will always have minimal rights, face endless restrictions, and will be judged by a completely different 'play book' altogether. It IS their country. Granted their continually moving the goal posts make it hard to keep up. However, the changes in enforcement did NOT magically appear one day and were enforced the same day, at least they gave warning, which is something to be thankful for.

So??? Thailand is not the only place in the world. The OP situation can happen in any country. The difference is, some countries are more humane than others. In the US, a foreigner who is supporting a US citizen can be petitioned to have right to stay. And who said that we are THAIs?