Uber stripped of its licence to operate in London

[snoop1130]

Uber stripped of its licence to operate in London

By Costas Pitas

 

A photo illustration shows the Uber app logo displayed on a mobile phone in Seoul, South Korea, September 21, 2017. REUTERS/Kim Hong-Ji/Illustration

 

LONDON (Reuters) - London's transport regulator on Friday stripped Uber of its licence to operate from the end of the month, affecting over 40,000 drivers in a huge blow to the taxi app.

 

"Uber's approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility in relation to a number of issues which have potential public safety and security implications," Transport for London (TfL) said.

 

The final day of Uber's licence will be on Sep. 30.

 

Uber, which has the right to appeal the decision within 21 days, did not offer an immediate comment. It is unclear whether Uber will be able to operate in October whilst any appeal is being considered.

 

In London, Uber has faced criticism from unions, lawmakers and traditional black cab drivers over working conditions.

 

Globally, Uber has endured a tumultuous few months after a string of scandals involving allegations of sexism and bullying at the company, leading to investor pressure which forced out former CEO and co-founder Travis Kalanick.

 

The app has been forced to quit several countries including Denmark and Hungary and faced regulatory battles in multiple U.S. states and countries around the world.

 

London Mayor Sadiq Khan said he backed the decision.

 

"All companies in London must play by the rules and adhere to the high standards we expect - particularly when it comes to the safety of customers," he said.

 

"It would be wrong if TfL continued to license Uber if there is any way that this could pose a threat to Londoners’ safety and security."

 

(Editing by Guy Faulconbridge)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-9-22

[Chivas]

Ouch.....simple as

[hocuspocus]

Told my daughter who lives in London to blame the London Mayor as she uses Uber, but she took offence because I mentioned he was Muslim.

[boomerangutang]

I think it's mostly pressure from standard taxi drivers. Like workers everywhere, they don't want competition, particularly if it offers cheaper service.

[mamypoko]

4 minutes ago, hocuspocus said:

Told my daughter who lives in London to blame the London Mayor as she uses Uber, but she took offence because I mentioned he was Muslim.

Why would his religion even be a part of that exchange?

[Khun Han]

Never used Uber in the UK because they've always been uncompetitive when I've priced them. But when we were in Florida a few months ago, they were a million percent better on price/service/attitude than the main taxi services. I chatted with every driver about their work, and got no bad feedback. I get the impression that Uber's biggest problem is not unprofessionalism, it's breaking the taxi mafias' networks/cartels. London's taxi mafia is notorious.

[johna]

32 minutes ago, mamypoko said:

Why would his religion even be a part of that exchange?

I guess you're not up to date on current events

[mamypoko]

31 minutes ago, johna said:

I guess you're not up to date on current events

All ears. Go ahead and remove all doubt. 

[marginline]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

I get the impression that Uber's biggest problem is not unprofessionalism, it's breaking the taxi mafias' networks/cartels. London's taxi mafia is notorious.

 

Bingo! 

[Nong Khai Man]

1 hour ago, marginline said:

Bingo! 

 

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

I think it's mostly pressure from standard taxi drivers. Like workers everywhere, they don't want competition, particularly if it offers cheaper service.

No, It's the fact that They are not fit & Proper to hold a Licence,Mostly due to NOT Reporting Sexual Assaults ( Alleged !! ) By SOME Of their drivers in London....

[marginline]

3 minutes ago, Nong Khai Man said:

 

No, It's the fact that They are not fit & Proper to hold a Licence,Mostly due to NOT Reporting Sexual Assaults ( Alleged !! ) By SOME Of their drivers in London....

With respect Nong Khai Man that's your opinion; not "a fact". The BBC and Sky News have been all over this like a rash this morning and an Uber spokesman has also complained about the false narrative apparently making the rounds krub.

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, marginline said:

With respect Nong Khai Man that's your opinion; not "a fact". The BBC and Sky News have been all over this like a rash this morning and an Uber spokesman has also complained about the false narrative apparently making the rounds krub.

CNN mentioned that Sadiq Khan is backed by the cabbies' union, however his spokesman tried to downplay that, stating that the decision was entirely made by TfL.

[stud858]

In Australia, I feel for taxi drivers that had to pay large sums of money for their licences. Then the spineless government allows Uber. A quick unfair change of rules. Fight for your right for a fair system for all.

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, stud858 said:

In Australia, I feel for taxi drivers that had to pay large sums of money for their licences. Then the spineless government allows Uber. A quick unfair change of rules. Fight for your right for a fair system for all.

Uber makes things so much easier in places where taxi regulation is bad. When I lived in Bangkok I reckoned that I had about a 40% success rate in getting taxi drivers to agree to take me to where I wanted to go. In Manila it is very similar for regular meter cabs, or they insist on adding 100 pesos to the fare. Uber, and Grab to an extent, have taken away that frustration. Where the taxis have been ripping off the customers for decades, they only have themselves to blame. 

[halloween]

25 minutes ago, stud858 said:

In Australia, I feel for taxi drivers that had to pay large sums of money for their licences. Then the spineless government allows Uber. A quick unfair change of rules. Fight for your right for a fair system for all.

Heading back to Brisbane next month for 6 months taxi work. News like this help https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-uber-driver-charged-with-second-rape-from-2015-20170719-gxegs0.html

[marginline]

2 minutes ago, halloween said:

Heading back to Brisbane next month for 6 months taxi work. News like this help https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-uber-driver-charged-with-second-rape-from-2015-20170719-gxegs0.html

It's NOT only Uber drivers that rape their customers halloween.

Case in point: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-12/former-taxi-driver-jailed-for-sexual-assault/7729614

[Monomial]

Most people don't understand the real problem with Uber. They just see the poor enforcement of taxi regulations and think Uber is an answer...it isn't. I often get the dreaded "no driver available" when I try to use taxi apps. This is despite seeing that there are vehicles nearby. A few times I have noticed that a driver came from 5 minutes away despite a car showing right near by. Why did this happen? The most likely reason is that nearer drivers or no driver wanted to go to my destination at that time. Uber drivers can cherry pick only the routes they want. That is why it is wrong. Taxi driver's can't do that. People get angry when they do. Just listen to people rant about it.

All taxi services, electronic or otherwise, have a responsibility to take all fares, or they don't deserve the right to operate. It is as simple as that. To do otherwise leaves less desirable routes underserved. It is the same argument that applies to universal coverage for insurance. Insurance should not be allowed to take only the healthy and throw away the sick when they are no longer profitable. Taxis are a public service and everyone must receive equal treatment. That is why all taxis, including Uber, must be strictly regulated.

The answer to bad taxi behavior is not Uber. The answer is strict enforcement of the rules on existing taxi services. That is the only fair and equitable solution. If the problem is the taxi "mafia", then the answer is to force the government to punish and control that mafia. But letting Uber driver's cherry pick the passengers they want and leaving just the unfortunate at the mercy of this "mafia" is a very poor ethical choice. It doesn't create a better city. It just creates even more injustice than the original situation. It is just that the beneficiaries of Uber no longer have to think about it. But for those who refuse to admit the deficiencies of Uber, "Let them eat cake".

Edited September 23, 2017 by Monomial

[halloween]

10 minutes ago, marginline said:

It's NOT only Uber drivers that rape their customers halloween.

Case in point: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-12/former-taxi-driver-jailed-for-sexual-assault/7729614

Before I was able to apply for a taxi licence, I had to supply police criminal and driving history checks, and I had to have a medical. The system falls down with new arrivals as the criminal history check doesn't go back to the 'home' country.

There are many regulations taxis and their drivers have to obey or risk seriously large fines, UBER's business approach is ignore them all and see what happens. One of those is I cannot refuse a fare, UBER drivers ONLY accept the fare that they like/

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, Monomial said:

Most people don't understand the real problem with Uber. They just see the poor enforcement of taxi regulations and think Uber is an answer...it isn't. I often get the dreaded "no driver available" when I try to use taxi apps. This is despite seeing that there are vehicles nearby. A few times I have noticed that a driver came from 5 minutes away despite a car showing right near by. Why did this happen? The most likely reason is that nearer drivers or no driver wanted to go to my destination at that time. Uber drivers can cherry pick only the routes they want. That is why it is wrong. Taxi driver's can't do that. People get angry when they do. Just listen to people rant about it.

All taxi services, electronic or otherwise, have a responsibility to take all fares, or they don't deserve the right to operate. It is as simple as that. To do otherwise leaves less desirable routes underserved. It is the same argument that applies to universal coverage for insurance. Insurance should not be allowed to take only the healthy and throw away the sick when they are no longer profitable. Taxis are a public service and everyone must receive equal treatment. That is why all taxis, including Uber, must be strictly regulated.

The answer to bad taxi behavior is not Uber. The answer is strict enforcement of the rules on existing taxi services. That is the only fair and equitable solution. If the problem is the taxi "mafia", then the answer is to force the government to punish and control that mafia. But letting Uber driver's cherry pick the passengers they want and leaving just the unfortunate at the mercy of this "mafia" is a very poor ethical choice. It doesn't create a better city. It just creates even more injustice than the original situation. It is just that the beneficiaries of Uber no longer have to think about it. But for those who refuse to admit the deficiencies of Uber, "Let them eat cake".

Sorry, but it is you who does not understand Uber. Drivers cannot readily see the destination prior to accepting  - there appear to be ways around that in some, but not all, circumstances, but in general the Uber driver is not explicitly informed by Uber of the destination prior to accepting the fare.

 

As for the rest, I fully agree with the sentiment but the realities are very different. As a long-time part-time resident of Phuket, I await for some knight in armour to force the local authorities to deal with the taxi mafia there. Clearly it isn't going to happen any time soon.  

[halloween]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Sorry, but it is you who does not understand Uber. Drivers cannot readily see the destination prior to accepting  - there appear to be ways around that in some, but not all, circumstances, but in general the Uber driver is not explicitly informed by Uber of the destination prior to accepting the fare.

 

As for the rest, I fully agree with the sentiment but the realities are very different. As a long-time part-time resident of Phuket, I await for some knight in armour to force the local authorities to deal with the taxi mafia there. Clearly it isn't going to happen any time soon.  

UBER drives bid for the trip with a fixed price - how do they do that if they don't know the destination?

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, halloween said:

UBER drives bid for the trip with a fixed price - how do they do that if they don't know the destination?

Well my experience as a passenger , and this guy's experience as a driver suggest that they do not know the destination in advance. 

As for bidding, I think that cannot be correct either - I get a price from Uber before they transmit my ride request. They cannot confirm a price prior to requesting a driver if the driver has to bid.

 

What information do Uber drivers know before they choose to pick up a passenger?

...

...

Your destination is not shown until I arrive and swipe "Arrived".

[Moonmoon]

I dont know about London, but in BKK, ride sharing apps like uber has certainly improve transport standards in my personal experience. 

 

I have 2 shops in BKK n Samut Prakan and sometimes need to move some goods around. Used to use the minivans to do that which they would charge alot and have very bad service attitude.

Now there is lalamove and the delivery guys from this app are courteous and much cheaper. Does all these new technology help improve Thai service standards? 

They certainly do.

[Moonmoon]

52 minutes ago, Monomial said:

Most people don't understand the real problem with Uber. They just see the poor enforcement of taxi regulations and think Uber is an answer...it isn't. I often get the dreaded "no driver available" when I try to use taxi apps. This is despite seeing that there are vehicles nearby. A few times I have noticed that a driver came from 5 minutes away despite a car showing right near by. Why did this happen? The most likely reason is that nearer drivers or no driver wanted to go to my destination at that time. Uber drivers can cherry pick only the routes they want. That is why it is wrong. Taxi driver's can't do that. People get angry when they do. Just listen to people rant about it.

All taxi services, electronic or otherwise, have a responsibility to take all fares, or they don't deserve the right to operate. It is as simple as that. To do otherwise leaves less desirable routes underserved. It is the same argument that applies to universal coverage for insurance. Insurance should not be allowed to take only the healthy and throw away the sick when they are no longer profitable. Taxis are a public service and everyone must receive equal treatment. That is why all taxis, including Uber, must be strictly regulated.

The answer to bad taxi behavior is not Uber. The answer is strict enforcement of the rules on existing taxi services. That is the only fair and equitable solution. If the problem is the taxi "mafia", then the answer is to force the government to punish and control that mafia. But letting Uber driver's cherry pick the passengers they want and leaving just the unfortunate at the mercy of this "mafia" is a very poor ethical choice. It doesn't create a better city. It just creates even more injustice than the original situation. It is just that the beneficiaries of Uber no longer have to think about it. But for those who refuse to admit the deficiencies of Uber, "Let them eat cake".

Well what you say is right about strict enforcement of rules and laws for taxi drivers.

But honestly do you think it can happened anytime soon? 

The laws are already in place I believe ages ago. Even with Uber, the traditional taxi drivers behaviour are still the same. 

Thats why as a consumer, it is to our benefit that with apps like uber and grab, the traditional taxi companys' can no longer monopolize the market.

I believe with more options these Thai taxi companies will be force in the near future to upgrade their services for the consumers, which will only add to our benefit. 

 

Even in Singapore, where taxi drivers follow the law, turn on meters and almost never refuse a customer, the taxi companies are changing their strategy and adopting new tech for their drivers to be competitive.

They have apps now like uber where u can opt for meter or an pre agreed price for travelling. 

Thai taxi companies have to upgrade themselves tech and service wise if they want to stay relevant and competitive. If not all they do is try and beat up uber drivers everytime they see 1, then like it or not, this kind of attitude will only cause their own demise.

[halloween]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Well my experience as a passenger , and this guy's experience as a driver suggest that they do not know the destination in advance. 

As for bidding, I think that cannot be correct either - I get a price from Uber before they transmit my ride request. They cannot confirm a price prior to requesting a driver if the driver has to bid.

 

What information do Uber drivers know before they choose to pick up a passenger?

...

...

Your destination is not shown until I arrive and swipe "Arrived".

Not sure which country that is referring to, but it is not how I understand the situation in Australia. OTOH I am not a UBER customer, relying on reports from dissatisfied/rejected by UBER service. What I do understand is that using a marginally cheaper service they are reducing the number of regulated fare taxis on the road, thus increasing the number of "busy" periods when UBERs multiplied fares are applied.

[wotsdermatter]

Why do people on ThaiVisa Forum suddenly start associating hard-working London taxi drivers with the definition of Mafia?  To be a taxi driver in London means having to obtain a licence that can take up to five years to get.  Before anything else, the intended driver has to spend time working, then in his/her spare time walk or bicycle throughout London to get what is termed "the knowledge."  That means having to know the City like the back of your hand and includes memorising every road, alleyway, etc., and all of the buildings contained therein, every road sign, every road repair being performed, all of the shortcuts, and more. No other place in the world imposes that amount of requirement to obtain such a licence and when they get it and drive taxi if they make a mistake, such as going in the wrong direction, etc., they can lose the licence permanently.  When at university, in Canada, I drove for a taxi company to keep myself alive.  All I had to do was take two photographs to City Hall,  fill in a form, pay my fee, and voila, there I, a taxi driver.  No test, and did not have to know the city of Windsor, Ontario, only how to drive a car.  The London taxi drivers work for their licence, UBER drivers don't.

Edited September 23, 2017 by wotsdermatter

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, halloween said:

Not sure which country that is referring to, but it is not how I understand the situation in Australia. OTOH I am not a UBER customer, relying on reports from dissatisfied/rejected by UBER service. What I do understand is that using a marginally cheaper service they are reducing the number of regulated fare taxis on the road, thus increasing the number of "busy" periods when UBERs multiplied fares are applied.

I am also unsure of the location the drivers in the link were commenting on, but my experience in Philippines is that the drivers do not know the destination. 

 

I actually find it maybe 20% more expensive than metered taxis, but the convenience, the relative cleanliness of the interior and the almost zero chance of rejection are all positives to me. Plus, if you put to one side the business practices of Uber, there are benefits that the technology offers which may be useful to some: you get the details of the driver prior to your journey starting, and you can share those with others. You can share your journey plan and you can see the optimum route proposed by Uber. Also,  you can see the rating of the driver; you can leave feedback on his service - and he can rate you as a passenger. 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, wotsdermatter said:

Why do people on ThaiVisa Forum suddenly associating hard-working London taxi drivers with the definition of Mafia?  To be a taxi driver in London means having to obtain a licence that can take up to five years to get.  Before anything else, the intended driver has to spend time working, then in his/her spare time walk or bicycle throughout London to get what is termed "the knowledge."  That means having to know the City like the back of your hand and includes memorising every road, alleyway, etc., and all of the buildings contained therein, every road sign, every road repair being performed, all of the shortcuts, and more. No other place in the world imposes that amount of requirement to obtain such a licence and when they get it and drive taxi if they make a mistake, such as going in the wrong direction, etc., they can lose the licence permanently.  When at university, in Canada, I drove for a taxi company to keep myself alive.  All I had to do was take two photographs to City Hall,  fill in a form, pay my fee, and voila, there I, a taxi driver.  No test, and did not have to know the city of Windsor, Ontario, only how to drive a car.  The London taxi drivers work for their licence, UBER drivers don't.

Why does no other place in the world place the same burden on aspiring taxi drivers? Perhaps the London requirements are unnecessarily onerous? Certainly now, with apps such as Waze, there is not the same need to have an encyclopedic knowledge of back alleys and short cuts.  Drivers themselves report in real time about delays, accidents, road works etc, and that is shared with all the other users. Technology has removed the requirement to have the map in your head.

[Monomial]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Sorry, but it is you who does not understand Uber. Drivers cannot readily see the destination prior to accepting  - there appear to be ways around that in some, but not all, circumstances, but in general the Uber driver is not explicitly informed by Uber of the destination prior to accepting the fare.

 

Unfortunately,  I do know how their system works and you are being way too generous with your comments. The initial ping from Uber may not advertise the destination, but all you need to is look at the customer's waybill to get that information. If it isn't shown in ALL circumstances, it is only because the customer may not have entered it.

 

Any Uber driver who is inclined to check the destination can do this can do it very easily.

 

Also, there are dozens of other taxi apps that are not specifically Uber, that also show the destination. This is not something that you can easily dismiss because it is inconvenient.

 

Unregulated taxi apps are not a panacea that fixes bad taxi service.  Only a concerted effort by the public in combination with government regulators can resolve this problem. It won't go away just because Uber makes it convenient for some while leaving the undesirables to their fate.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

Unfortunately,  I do know how their system works and you are being way too generous with your comments. The initial ping from Uber may not advertise the destination, but all you need to is look at the customer's waybill to get that information. If it isn't shown in ALL circumstances, it is only because the customer may not have entered it.

 

Any Uber driver who is inclined to check the destination can do this can do it very easily.

 

Also, there are dozens of other taxi apps that are not specifically Uber, that also show the destination. This is not something that you can easily dismiss because it is inconvenient.

 

Unregulated taxi apps are not a panacea that fixes bad taxi service.  Only a concerted effort by the public in combination with government regulators can resolve this problem. It won't go away just because Uber makes it convenient for some while leaving the undesirables to their fate.

 

 

I am certainly willing to bow to your experience, but the link I provided suggests that the awareness of the trick you mention is not universally known.

 

That said, I don't think anyone suggested that Uber was the silver bullet to right all the taxi service wrongs in the world, but whether it is London or Bangkok,  rogue taxi drivers are known for taking advantage of passengers to a lesser or greater extent. Regulation, while good in theory, has its flaws in application. Uber provides a means of (for want of a less loaded word) democratising the transaction and putting a lot more control into the hands of the passenger. 

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, Nong Khai Man said:

 

No, It's the fact that They are not fit & Proper to hold a Licence,Mostly due to NOT Reporting Sexual Assaults ( Alleged !! ) By SOME Of their drivers in London....

 

Nonsense!!! If you leave a brolly in the back of a cab, you report it to the taxi company. If you are assaulted by the driver, you report it to the police. If you want to cause mischief for a rival taxi company, you make a criminal allegation which you don't report to the police (because you will get into serious trouble when it is followed up). You report it to the rival taxi company, which is obliged to log it.