Retirement dreams on Chiang Mai "Hi-So Hill" shattered as foreigner pensioners conned into buying forestry land

[xr399]

Happens all over the world. "Bought" a lot on a golf course in Costa Rica in 1998 intending to build retirement home on it. Part of that developement (Phase 1 ) and the golf course were already finished. Phase 2 and 3 where I 'purchased' never got government permission to be built. Phase 1 buyers were ok.  Result US$75,000 gone., no recourse. Had to work 3 more years to make it up, still retired here at 57.... 70 now ?

Renting here... ??

Edited September 25, 2017 by xr399
Addition

[dunroaming]

Buying property in Thailand is a risky business for foreigners.  Add to that the fact that because of the build quality the houses often lose value over the years.  I was involved in several house builds but only to turn a quick profit.  Long term ownership can bring problems, though not always. 

 

One essential  when buying land or property in Thailand is to have a good lawyer who works for you and not your in-laws. However in the land of scams and greed you can never be sure who is shafting you.  Much easier to just rent

[off road pat]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Or it could have been a project where the land is owned in common by the development, and the foreigners bought shares adding up to less than 49% ownership.  There are many ways they could have reasonably believed they were within the law.  But when the land documents themselves are bogus, none of that matters.  To anyone, including a lot of the TVF geniuses who think they're too smart to be schnookered.

 

They're not.

 

On protected forest land ??? come on man !!, if you want to spend 38 mill on land you get more info on it, get advice etc.. before you buy !!!

Some will be duped and others will never be duped...(snookered !) not for fortunes at least...I have been ripped of a couple of hundreds here and there, but never what I could not afford to loose !!... "High Society Hill". to good to be true 555555

The guy that ripped them off did a perfect job, he played on there sense of superiority !!! the ABC of ripping off people, know there weaknesses and use them for your profit.

Edited September 25, 2017 by off road pat

[malibukid]

Mick Jager once said "rent everything"

[fasteddie]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Or it could have been a project where the land is owned in common by the development, and the foreigners bought shares adding up to less than 49% ownership.  There are many ways they could have reasonably believed they were within the law.  But when the land documents themselves are bogus, none of that matters.  To anyone, including a lot of the TVF geniuses who think they're too smart to be schnookered.

 

They're not.

 

You may not be, plenty of us are.

[off road pat]

14 minutes ago, malibukid said:

Mick Jager once said "rent everything"

Mick Jager is no prophet, he bought a "château"  (Castle) in France and many more property's around the world !!!

[dunroaming]

20 minutes ago, malibukid said:

Mick Jager once said "rent everything"

Yes but Mick could never get any satisfaction could he?

[cmrichsw]

5 hours ago, trogers said:

Foxes got conned?

 

They know they cannot own land in Thailand but tried ways to go around that hurdle. So, who have the last laugh?

Makes you wonder how the foxes earned there money to begin with. Easy come easy go???

[impulse]

 

8 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

4 hours ago, impulse said:

To anyone, including a lot of the TVF geniuses who think they're too smart to be schnookered.

 

They're not.

You may not be, plenty of us are.

 

That's what dozens (hundreds?) of people smarter than you and me have thought, later wondering how it could have happened to them...

Edited September 25, 2017 by impulse

[cmsally]

1 hour ago, sfokevin said:

Kudos to the crack detectives at the Forestry Dept for getting on this before it got out of hand!.. 

 

Is this the development in question ? It looks more like the one west of the 700yrs stadium. The one they built for govt judicial employees. What happened to that one?

 

When they mention titles, did the houses have Chanot title ?

[impulse]

33 minutes ago, off road pat said:

On protected forest land ??? come on man !!, if you want to spend 38 mill on land you get more info on it, get advice etc.. before you buy !!!

Some will be duped and others will never be duped...(snookered !) not for fortunes at least...I have been ripped of a couple of hundreds here and there, but never what I could not afford to loose !!... "High Society Hill". to good to be true 555555

The guy that ripped them off did a perfect job, he played on there sense of superiority !!! the ABC of ripping off people, know there weaknesses and use them for your profit.

 

Advice from who?  You'd have to get advice from a lawyer, then hire an investigator to see if the lawyer's telling the truth, then hire another guy to see if the first investigator is in on the deal, too.  And all of that falls apart if someone in the government changes and that land that's been "legal" for generations suddenly falls under protected forest land.

 

High Society Hill is pretty tame compared to the names of a lot of legitimate (so far, anyway) projects I've golfed on in Pattaya.

 

The only weakness the guy needed to prey on was weakness in the Thai legal system.  

 

[bazza73]

Land scams are not exclusive to Thailand. Having said that, I think it's rather naive of the pensioners who bought to be doing most of this via the Internet. The term "due diligence" comes to mind, particularly when you are dealing in a foreign country.

I rent here, and always will. Apart from anything else, the arcane nature of Australian Centrelink rules mean if I buy housing of any kind here, I would lose about 15,000 baht a month of my pension.

[meinphuket]

5 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

Som Nam Nar !!!!!!!!!

You must be a bitter, jealous, odious person to enjoy other's misfortunes.

[giddyup]

8 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

Land scams are not exclusive to Thailand. Having said that, I think it's rather naive of the pensioners who bought to be doing most of this via the Internet. The term "due diligence" comes to mind, particularly when you are dealing in a foreign country.

I rent here, and always will. Apart from anything else, the arcane nature of Australian Centrelink rules mean if I buy housing of any kind here, I would lose about 15,000 baht a month of my pension.

Rubbish! I told Centrelink 8 years go, before I moved here, that I would be using $150,000, part of the proceeds from the sale of my house in Australia, to buy a house in Thailand. Didn't affect my pension one bit.

[fasteddie]

16 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

 

That's what dozens (hundreds?) of people smarter than you and me have thought, later wondering how it could have happened to them...

There you go again, speaking for everybody else, don't judge others by your own shortcomings.

[off road pat]

3 minutes ago, meinphuket said:

You must be a bitter, jealous, odious person to enjoy other's misfortunes.

Hmmm, no I don't think so. I'm not enjoying other's misfortunes, I never had 38 million bath to throw away...and if I did I would never buy anything in Thailand. I have common sense and a jeep and with this my wife and I travel around SE Asia for the last 20 Years or more. I learned from The things I saw and the numerous storeys I heard !?!?!?

I suggest, every body do the same learn from other's experiences and use common sense if not ? som nam na !!!

[off road pat]

29 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Advice from who?  You'd have to get advice from a lawyer, then hire an investigator to see if the lawyer's telling the truth, then hire another guy to see if the first investigator is in on the deal, too.  And all of that falls apart if someone in the government changes and that land that's been "legal" for generations suddenly falls under protected forest land.

 

High Society Hill is pretty tame compared to the names of a lot of legitimate (so far, anyway) projects I've golfed on in Pattaya.

 

The only weakness the guy needed to prey on was weakness in the Thai legal system.  

 

What is it with people? wanting to possess, having more and more...if they juts talked to a few farangs/expats around with there plans of buying land and build houses ?  they would already have reasonable good advice !!! DON'T BUY !!!

There urge to have a house on a hill in Thailand was to strong and they forgot common sense.

I'm not enjoying other's misfortunes, I never had 38 million bath to throw away...and if I did I would never buy anything in Thailand. I have common sense and a jeep and with this my wife and I travel around SE Asia for the last 20 Years or more. I learned from The things I saw and the numerous stories I heard !?!?!?

I suggest, every body do the same learn from other's experiences and use common sense if not ? som nam na !!!

Edited September 25, 2017 by off road pat

[off road pat]

34 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Yes but Mick could never get any satisfaction could he?

OOOOh Soo good !!!! made my day !!!

[impulse]

21 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

41 minutes ago, impulse said:

That's what dozens (hundreds?) of people smarter than you and me have thought, later wondering how it could have happened to them...

There you go again, speaking for everybody else, don't judge others by your own shortcomings.

 

If realizing that I'm not the smartest MoFo in Thailand is a shortcoming, I freely admit to that one.  But I don't think it is...

 

[trogers]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Or it could have been a project where the land is owned in common by the development, and the foreigners bought shares adding up to less than 49% ownership.  There are many ways they could have reasonably believed they were within the law.  But when the land documents themselves are bogus, none of that matters.  To anyone, including a lot of the TVF geniuses who think they're too smart to be schnookered.

 

They're not.

 

When I buy shares in a company, I would first be concerned about its line of business in that state of economy and the returns it is generating from the capital it has obtained.

 

If I am only concerned about how many days I would get to use the Lamborghini of the Chairman of the Board, my motive for putting money in that company who be suspected.

[ttrd]

6 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

If it sounds too good to be true......it usually is. 

 

Who on earth buy a home online and transfer money prior to check the documentation, inspect the area, check the history of the developer and so on?

 

Its not a pair of pants, a jacket or a phone - its a property which again is the biggest investment you do in a lifetime...

[KOZMO]

6 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

If it sounds too good to be true......it usually is. 

 

Who would be so stupid to spend that much money online???  Sight unseen !!!!  

[timewilltell]

And the topic below this is how to buy and invest in property in Thailand - no foreigner is safe investing here and there should be no foreign investment proposed especially by the Embassies through the various associations they support.

Edited September 25, 2017 by timewilltell

[Naam]

5 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

I don't think it's very nice for anyone to gloat over retirees losing their life savings. They were not careful enough but I'm sorry they lost so much.

the gloating is most of the time done by envious poor boys who don't own a pot to piss in and therefore have nothing to lose.

[NeoDinosaw]

5 hours ago, Totster said:

A fool and his money are soon parted.

 

It is the buyers responsibility to carry out due diligence.

 

totster :)

Maybe they did carry out due diligence.  Maybe they got a Thai lawyer to check the paperwork as confirm that all was well .........

 

 

[NeoDinosaw]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The typical usual, unanswered, unanswerable questions in these kinds of cases:

 

--If the housing development was located on protected forestry land, how did it get built in the first place without the forestry authorities stepping in to stop it?

 

--To do any kind of housing sale transaction, presumably the deeds and documents would have to have gone thru the local Land Department. Why would the land department approve housing project sales on protected forestry land?  They don't have maps that show them what areas are what?

 

maybe the authorities just sit in their air-conditioned offices all day and never visit the forest  ....

 

 

[NeoDinosaw]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The typical usual, unanswered, unanswerable questions in these kinds of cases:

 

--If the housing development was located on protected forestry land, how did it get built in the first place without the forestry authorities stepping in to stop it?

 

--To do any kind of housing sale transaction, presumably the deeds and documents would have to have gone thru the local Land Department. Why would the land department approve housing project sales on protected forestry land?  They don't have maps that show them what areas are what?

 

They have very good maps. But I have yet to meet a Thai official who can read a map !

[jgarbo]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

It's cases like this that make me believe that Thailand's laws against foreigners buying land are actually humane.

 

Better to have 100 foreigners griping that they can't buy land than 50 foreigners griping that they have lost their retirement savings to land swindles, greedy wives, corrupt officials  and shifty lawyers.

 

One's irritating, with renting as a solution.  The other is devastating- and with no recourse.

 

Totally agree with only Thais owning land. I've done the house & garden thing, though I didn't lose when we sold up. Still it doesn't work well here. I buy condos, no problem with ownership. The forestry land buy is, I'm sorry, plain dumb. Find an agent, check with lands dept., inspect, check with police, then check again. Sorry, folks, you'll never retrieve your money.  

Edited September 25, 2017 by jgarbo

[Samuel Smith]

3 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Kudos to the crack detectives at the Forestry Dept for getting on this before it got out of hand!.. 

 

Well if that place is illegal, how much development along 1269 is also illegal?  Loads of resorts, coffee shops, international schools etc!

[wmccpa112253]

May be of little consequence but they have a large capital loss that can be written off on their US tax return ( if American)

 

CPA