Some NFL players kneel during U.S. anthem again despite Trump call for protest to end

[webfact]

Some NFL players kneel during U.S. anthem again despite Trump call for protest to end

By Christian Radnedge and Bernie Woodall

 

NFL Football - Miami Dolphins vs New Orleans Saints - NFL International Series - Wembley Stadium, London, Britain - October 1, 2017 Maurice Smith (R) of the Miami Dolphins kneels down before the match Action Images via Reuters/Matthew Childs

 

(Reuters) - Several dozen NFL players, fewer than last week, chose to sit or kneel during the U.S. national anthem at the start of games on Sunday, a day after President Donald Trump again demanded an end to a protest he sees as a sign of disrespect for the flag.

 

The symbolic gesture, initiated last year by then-San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, snowballed last week following calls by Trump for team owners to fire athletes who sat out the anthem.

 

On Sunday, more than 40 players, many of them on the 49ers, sat or knelt on one knee during renditions of the "Star-Spangled Banner" in the 15 National Football League games, compared with 180 players in all 16 games a week earlier.

 

Some African-American players have adopted the practice of kneeling during the anthem to protest against police treatment of racial minorities.

 

Critics including Trump object to any protest, regardless of its merits, during a ceremony meant to honour the flag and military veterans.

 

Some 30 members of the 49ers knelt before a game in Arizona on Sunday, and their general manager and chief executive stood behind them, The Mercury News in the San Francisco Bay area reported.

 

In Seattle, several members of the Seahawks sat out the national anthem, while their opponents, the Indianapolis Colts, linked arms along the sidelines.

 

In other games, players on some teams went to one knee before the anthem was played and then rose as a team when the song began.

 

Players on a handful of teams stood with raised fists during parts of the anthem or after it, according to a team-by-team rundown from sports television network ESPN.

 

At London's Wembley Stadium, where the NFL's first game was played on Sunday, three members of the Miami Dolphins knelt as U.S. singer Darius Rucker performed the U.S. anthem. All of the other uniformed Dolphins and their opponents, the New Orleans Saints, stood along the sidelines, many with their right hands over their hearts.

 

The three players who had knelt stood for the British anthem, "God Save the Queen."

 

CONTROVERSY GRIPS NFL

 

'Before last weekend's games, Trump wrote a series of tweets that fuelled the debate over whether the players should be able to protest during the anthem.

 

The controversy quickly enveloped the most popular U.S. sports league, preoccupied the news media and became a hot topic of discussion at bars and offices across the country.

 

The Saints and some other teams sought a compromise stance, kneeling in unison before the anthem and standing together during the song. The aim was to show respect for both the flag and the position taken by the protesters.

 

"The decision to kneel ... prior to the anthem and then everyone stand up together, number one, it shows solidarity and unity for us as a team," Saints quarterback Drew Brees said. "Listen, it pays respect to all."

 

During the past week, Trump kept up a drumbeat of criticism of the protesting players.

 

"Very important that NFL players STAND tomorrow, and always, for the playing of our National Anthem," he wrote on Twitter on Saturday. "Respect our Flag and our Country!"

 

On Tuesday, Trump called on the NFL to ban players from kneeling in protest at games during the anthem.

 

"The NFL has all sorts of rules and regulations," he wrote. "The only way out for them is to set a rule that you can't kneel during our national anthem!"

 

The theme may play well with Trump’s conservative base at a time when the Republican president is grappling with North Korea’s nuclear threats, a humanitarian crisis in hurricane-struck Puerto Rico and an investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 election and a healthcare struggle in Congress.

 

Outside Wembley Stadium on Sunday, not all British fans supported the players' protests.

 

“I think everyone has the right to protest, but I think you have to choose your stage wisely," said Laura Williams, who works in healthcare. "I think you risk upsetting more people than it’s worth."

 

Mark Dodson, an engineer, said, however, the protests were "absolutely a global initiative" and "a sign of solidarity between different races, different backgrounds, different everything basically, which is great to see."

 

(Reporting by Christian Radnedge in London and Bernie Woodall in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.; Additional reporting by Chris Michaud in New York and Dan Whitcomb in Los Angeles; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-10-02

[NanLaew]

15 minutes ago, webfact said:

“I think everyone has the right to protest, but I think you have to choose your stage wisely," said Laura Williams, who works in healthcare. "I think you risk upsetting more people than it’s worth."

 

The 3 degrees of protest maybe?

 

Thinking and/or talking about doing 'something'... which is arguably upwards of 90% of any protest.

 

Doing something that doesn't inflame sensitivities... those players, managers and owners who unilaterally kneel together before standing for the actual anthem . So there's another 9% for you.

 

Doing something that has profound meaning for your own beliefs and disregards the risk of upsetting others because unless you upset someone, it's not really a protest is it? That's the remaining 1%ers that kneel during the anthem.

 

Anyone who upsets the snowflake in the Whitehouse while exercising their legal and constitutional rights has nothing to worry about  and nothing to apologize for IMHO.

[riclag]

As a American I'm ashamed that these nitwits call themselves American's.They should respect the hand that feeds them and their families.I have emailed the NFL,NFL sponsors and  teams  to tell them I will join the  boycott . Politics has no business in sport's.

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, riclag said:

As a American I'm ashamed that these nitwits call themselves American's.They should respect the hand that feeds them and their families.I have emailed the NFL,NFL sponsors and  teams  to tell them I will join the  boycott . Politics has no business in sport's.

Such sensitive characters these flag-lovers are. The big bad football players hurt their feelings. Shame on them.

Edited October 2, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[attrayant]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

As a American I'm ashamed that these nitwits call themselves American's.They should respect the hand that feeds them and their families.

 

 

You just don't get it - they do respect it.  That's precisely why they're kneeling.  If they didn't respect or care about their country, they wouldn't even be bothering.

Edited October 2, 2017 by attrayant

[riclag]

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Such sensitive characters these flag-lovers are. The big bad football players hurt their feelings. Shame on them.

Who said anything about the flag?Why are you trolling me?

Edited October 2, 2017 by riclag

[ilostmypassword]

12 minutes ago, riclag said:

Who said anything about the flag?Why are you trolling me?

Sorry. I guess it's the national anthem you love, which, given it's awful melody and lumpy lyrics, is even less understandable. And you do understand that the anthem is about the flag, right?

Edited October 2, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

40 minutes ago, riclag said:

As a American I'm ashamed that these nitwits call themselves American's.They should respect the hand that feeds them and their families.I have emailed the NFL,NFL sponsors and  teams  to tell them I will join the  boycott . Politics has no business in sport's.

 

Unfortunately, you seem to have lost the foundation that makes the American system of government and society better, at least in principle, than many others, and that's the constitutionally protected right to free speech and civil protest.

 

The player protests started by Colin aren't disrespecting the country or the military or the flag, per se. They're specifically protesting the well-documented racial injustices against minority groups by police and other parts of the U.S. justice system. And if you don't understand and acknowledge that's a serious problem [getting shot and killed by the police with impunity merely for being black], you have a lot of learning to do.

 

Yes, they could have chosen a different manner or method of staging their protest. But obviously Colin and the others wanted to do something that would spark a debate and garner attention. And that, surely, it has done.

 

However, it is unfortunate that there are so many flag-wrapped reactionaries who can't or don't want to understand what the protest is about. The flag is a symbol of the American system, and at the core of the American system is the right to speak freely and protest. If you can't acknowledge and accept that, then you're the one who's dishonoring what the flag really stands for.

 

Edited October 2, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Cory1848]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

As a American I'm ashamed that these nitwits call themselves American's.They should respect the hand that feeds them and their families.I have emailed the NFL,NFL sponsors and  teams  to tell them I will join the  boycott . Politics has no business in sport's.

In the United States, politics has as much business in sports as it does in any other venue, private or public, at the discretion of the participants, and athletes have the same constitutional right to protest as any other citizens. I, too, am American, but my shame rests in the fact that so many Americans express opinions that are as anti-American as yours, with no awareness of what being American really means -- and the same would apply to any society that guarantees broad freedoms to its citizens. As for your statement that the “nitwits ... should respect the hand that feeds them,” well, that smacks of ... something ... but I’m not going to go there.

[IAMHERE]

That kneeling thing; is it a Protest or a Demonstration?  For what its worth I don't like the National Anthem either, should be This Land is Your Land by Woody Guthrie. A song about defeating the only true friend the USA has (England) should not be our national song. As for 'protesting' the white power structure in America, good luck with that.

[attrayant]

15 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

That kneeling thing; is it a Protest or a Demonstration?

 

The answer is in post #8 of this very thread, of which I will quote the relevant bits here:

 

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The player protests started by Colin aren't disrespecting the country or the military or the flag, per se. They're specifically protesting the well-documented racial injustices against minority groups by police and other parts of the U.S. justice system. And if you don't understand and acknowledge that's a serious problem [getting shot and killed by the police with impunity merely for being black], you have a lot of learning to do.

 

[snip]

 

The flag is a symbol of the American system, and at the core of the American system is the right to speak freely and protest.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Interesting history of the "National Anthem" -- a history that I suspect most Americans have no clue about, including the fact that it only became an official national anthem in 1931. For me, I can think of quite a few other notions to get patriotic about.
 

Quote

 

"The Star-Spangled Banner" is the national anthem of the United States of America. The lyrics come from "Defence of Fort M'Henry",^[2] a poem written on September 14, 1814, by the 35-year-old lawyer and amateur poet Francis Scott Key after witnessing the bombardment of Fort McHenry by British ships of the Royal Navy in Baltimore Harbor during the Battle of Baltimore in the War of 1812. Key was inspired by the large American flag, the Star-Spangled Banner, flying triumphantly above the fort during the American victory.
 

The poem was set to the tune of a popular British song written by John Stafford Smith for the Anacreontic Society, a men's social club in London. "To Anacreon in Heaven" (or "The Anacreontic Song"), with various lyrics, was already popular in the United States. Set to Key's poem and renamed "The Star-Spangled Banner", it soon became a well-known American patriotic song. With a range of one octave and one fifth (a semitone more than an octave and a half), it is known for being difficult to sing. Although the poem has four stanzas, only the first is commonly sung today.
 

"The Star-Spangled Banner" was recognized for official use by the United States Navy in 1889, and by U.S. President Woodrow Wilson in 1916, and was made the national anthem by a congressional resolution on March 3, 1931 (46 Stat. 1508, codified at 36 U.S.C. § 301), which was signed by President Herbert Hoover.

 

 

Quote

O say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner

Edited October 2, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jack Mountain]

5 hours ago, riclag said:

As a American I'm ashamed that these nitwits call themselves American's.They should respect the hand that feeds them and their families.I have emailed the NFL,NFL sponsors and  teams  to tell them I will join the  boycott . Politics has no business in sport's.

3 Fingers would have been better ... maybe later. Can always hope.

[riclag]

3 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

In the United States, politics has as much business in sports as it does in any other venue, private or public, at the discretion of the participants, and athletes have the same constitutional right to protest as any other citizens. I, too, am American, but my shame rests in the fact that so many Americans express opinions that are as anti-American as yours, with no awareness of what being American really means -- and the same would apply to any society that guarantees broad freedoms to its citizens. As for your statement that the “nitwits ... should respect the hand that feeds them,” well, that smacks of ... something ... but I’m not going to go there.

Next time I go and fight for my country and loose my foot,I'll  remember my anti American patriotism and how stupid I was to think I was making a difference. Take notice, I don't appreciate trolling. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by riclag

[amvet]

I thought it was interesting that they players stood for the UK Anthem apparently realizing there are no racial problems in the UK. 

[TonyClifton]

6 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Sorry. I guess it's the national anthem you love, which, given it's awful melody and lumpy lyrics, is even less understandable. And you do understand that the anthem is about the flag, right?

 

It is you who does not understand.  It's not a song about a flag.  It's a song about the country the flag represents. Given your answers in the past and your penchant for trolling the fine people here at ThaiVisa, I must say I'm not surprised.

[Cory1848]

15 minutes ago, riclag said:

Next time I go and fight for my country and loose my foot,I'll  remember my anti American patriotism and how stupid I was to think I was making a difference. Take notice I don't appreciate trolling. 

 

If you indeed lost your foot in a war someplace, then I’m sorry about that. But you viciously attacked a whole class of people out of hand without having any clue what they’re protesting. If you think they’re protesting against you somehow, then you’re really at sea. And if you don’t like being “trolled” (whatever you mean by that; this is a forum after all, and I was responding to the offensiveness of your original post), then I suggest you tone down the rudderless anger. Thank you.

[TonyClifton]

Just now, Cory1848 said:

 

Iyou viciously attacked a whole class of people out of hand without having any clue what they’re protesting. 

 

 

Which class of people would that be? 

Hmmm.

 

Oh, I know.

 

Ignorant American Football Players.

[TonyClifton]

The blame should not be placed upon the ignorant morons who go to one knee.  The blame should be placed where it is merited, and that would be the owner of the team and the coach.  If the owner and coach cannot make their employees comport properly to their wishes then they should get out of the business.

 

There is no constitutional right here, they are working and under contract.  

 

Their submissive stance of going to their knees is embarrassing.  Fire them all.

[ilostmypassword]

14 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

 

It is you who does not understand.  It's not a song about a flag.  It's a song about the country the flag represents. Given your answers in the past and your penchant for trolling the fine people here at ThaiVisa, I must say I'm not surprised.

And it's called the Star Spangled Banner because...?

[TonyClifton]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

And it's called the Star Spangled Banner because...?

 

Nice troll but you may keep the bait.  I won't dangle pearls before swine.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, TonyClifton said:

 

Nice troll but you may keep the bait.  I won't dangle pearls before swine.

I would advise you to get a jeweler to check those pearls, but I think you'd rather go on believing that they are genuine.

[riclag]

1 minute ago, TonyClifton said:

 

Which class of people would that be? 

Hmmm.

 

Oh, I know.

 

Ignorant American Football Players.

Ignorant is a little bit stronger then nitwits. Then again they are misguided, especially the one's that were standing during The UK Anthem . Hmmm,The UK doesn't have the same issues right? 

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

 

Which class of people would that be? 

Hmmm.

 

Oh, I know.

 

Ignorant American Football Players.

Well, now that you've called them ignorant, without providing facts to back it up, I;m convinced.

 

4 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

The blame should not be placed upon the ignorant morons who go to one knee.  The blame should be placed where it is merited, and that would be the owner of the team and the coach.  If the owner and coach cannot make their employees comport properly to their wishes then they should get out of the business.

 

There is no constitutional right here, they are working and under contract.  

 

Their submissive stance of going to their knees is embarrassing.  Fire them all.

And you follow that up with "ignorant morons." Quite a high level of discourse you don't bring to the table.

"If the owner and coach cannot make their employees comport properly to their wishes then they should get out of the business."

What you actually are saying here is that if the owner and coaches cannot make their employees comport with your wishes then they should get out of the business. Who are you that they these business people and staff should do what you want?

[Cory1848]

5 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

The blame should not be placed upon the ignorant morons who go to one knee.  The blame should be placed where it is merited, and that would be the owner of the team and the coach.  If the owner and coach cannot make their employees comport properly to their wishes then they should get out of the business.

 

There is no constitutional right here, they are working and under contract.  

 

Their submissive stance of going to their knees is embarrassing.  Fire them all.

 

The blame for what? Last weekend, most owners in fact took to the field and stood in solidarity with their players, so their "wishes" would seem to be in common. And if you find it "embarrassing" that a group of US citizens would take a knee in an act of protest, then that's your problem.

[TonyClifton]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

What you actually are saying here is that if the owner and coaches cannot make their employees comport with your wishes then they should get out of the business. Who are you that they these business people and staff should do what you want?

 

 

That is correct.  I am not a consumer of football in any form, but the majority of Americans expect these idiots to act differently.  Since they are dependant upon ticket sales, endorsements and the like, they do have to comport to the wishes of those that pay them.

 

Perhaps the concept is too simple for you?

[TonyClifton]

3 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

 

The blame for what? Last weekend, most owners in fact took to the field and stood in solidarity with their players, so their "wishes" would seem to be in common. And if you find it "embarrassing" that a group of US citizens would take a knee in an act of protest, then that's your problem.

 

Yes, they did, and their bosses, the American People who are the consumers let them know of their displeasure.  Ratings dropped.

[ilostmypassword]

12 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

The blame should not be placed upon the ignorant morons who go to one knee.  The blame should be placed where it is merited, and that would be the owner of the team and the coach.  If the owner and coach cannot make their employees comport properly to their wishes then they should get out of the business.

 

There is no constitutional right here, they are working and under contract.  

 

Their submissive stance of going to their knees is embarrassing.  Fire them all.

 

4 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

 

The blame for what? Last weekend, most owners in fact took to the field and stood in solidarity with their players, so their "wishes" would seem to be in common. And if you find it "embarrassing" that a group of US citizens would take a knee in an act of protest, then that's your problem.

Maybe he's one of those fantasy football players who just taken the fantasy a little bit too far?

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, TonyClifton said:

 

1 minute ago, TonyClifton said:

Yes, they did, and their bosses, the American People who are the consumers let them know of their displeasure.  Ratings dropped.

NFL TV Ratings Improve Overall in Week 3 After Boost from Monday Night Football

"The final viewership numbers based on projections from Fox Sports vice president of research Mike Mulvihill are that the NFL games from Sunday and Monday were up 3% in aggregate over Week 3 in 2016. NFL spokesperson Brian McCarthy also confirmed those numbers.

On Tuesday afternoon, CBS said its NFL coverage on Sunday drew 17.9 million viewers, up 2% from a year ago."

https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/09/26/nfl-ratings-increase-donald-trump-comments-monday-night-football

 

Fake news much?

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

 

I am sure "ignorant moron," makes up for that inefficiency. 

"Inefficiency???" using a word wrongly indicates something possibly significant given the context.