After Las Vegas massacre, Democrats urge gun laws; Republicans silent

Golgota · October 3, 2017

1 hour ago, jaywalker said:

Which part of the killer using an ILLEGAL weapon do you not get?

Which part of the gun availbility problem don't you get?

Civili citizen in USA represents 4.4% of the worls civili citizen, and yet they own 50% of the guns owned by citizen worldwide? If you do not see the correlation between those numbers you are a lost cause

Golgota · October 3, 2017

1 hour ago, jaywalker said:

Psychos seem to know more about easy access than I ever will.

------------

You need to be eligible to possess firearms in general.

You must live in a state where NFA items are permitted and machine guns, specifically, are legal to possess.

The machine gun you wish to acquire must have been manufactured on or before May 19, 1986. That is the cutoff date for entries to be made in the NFRTR (National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record), the registry of all NFA items in the United States including machine guns.

You must locate a Class III dealer (FFL01+SOT) that sells or can transfer in the machine gun you wish to acquire in your state of residence.

You must purchase the machine gun upfront prior to transfer and have it shipped to your Class III dealer. For a full-auto M16, this will be anywhere from $12,000 and up. Typical prices for an M16 hover around $14,000 to $16,000.

Once purchased and with your dealer, the dealer will fill out the Form 4 application on your behalf to submission to the BATFE and collect your $200 NFA transfer stamp tax.

The application will be submitted. Now you wait 8+ months for the full FBI background check and BATFE processing to complete.

Once the Form 4 is processed, it will be returned to the dealer along with the tax stamp which is part of your paperwork. You can then take possession of your military grade fully automatic firearm and take it home.

The tax stamp must be kept with the firearm it belongs to at all times! The tax stamp is your only affirmative defense to prove you are not in possession of an illegal machine gun. The tax stamp is proof you paid the transfer tax and legally transferred the machine gun. Ranges that allow Class III will want to see the stamp. If you get pulled over and the gun is discovered/inspected, law enforcement will definitely want to see it too. You may be required to present the firearm for inspection on demand by the BATFE.

You may not transport the fully automatic firearm across state lines for any purpose without prior consent of the Federal government. You must request this in advance and provide details on where the firearm is going, when you are leaving and when it will return to its registered location of residence.

You cannot leave the presence of your fully automatic firearm. If someone else is shooting it, you must be with it, legally speaking. The one exception to this is if you have formed a legal trust for the purpose of possessing the firearm, in which case all beneficiaries of the trust (usually family or employees) may have access to the firearm.

So yes, provided you meet and abide by all of conditions above, a normal citizen can purchase and possess a fully automatic military grade assault rifle.

Share

In 99% of the countries it is :

Sorry you cannot.

It seems to be a better solution

jaywalker · October 3, 2017

1 minute ago, Golgota said:

Which part of the gun availbility problem don't you get?

Civili citizen in USA represents 4.4% of the worls civili citizen, and yet they own 50% of the guns owned by citizen worldwide? If you do not see the correlation between those numbers you are a lost cause

Wish you would use full words, so I could understand you.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

boomerangutang · October 3, 2017

1 hour ago, jaywalker said:

So the woman and the toddler are criminals?

Sound to me more like some lady (or a kid that gets behind the wheel of a car.
BTW, how did did you guess the length of my dick? You are pretty close.

The longer the muzzle, the higher the velocity of the bullet.

You missed my point by a country mile. A prior poster alluded to being a mean SOB because he could pull the little trigger on a gun. I was asking if the toddler who shot his dad, or the woman who killed her daughter are mean SOB's because they too can pull a trigger - easier than pushing down the plunger on a toaster.

1 hour ago, jaywalker said:

It's about a $10,000 USD process, and 6 to 8 months to get a fully automatic machine gun license in the USA, and you had better be squeaky clean to get approved.

More laws will do nothing to stop crazy people from being crazy people.

are automatic weapons available, outside of military/police, in the US? I ask that honestly. If automatic weapons are legally available to civilians, than the US is in deeper shit than Syria.

Crazy people will be crazy, but if they have access to deadly weapons then they're capability to cause harm is increased. If I'm in charge of a kindergarten, I'm not going to have strike-matches, razor blades and open bottles of petrol all over the place. Increased weapons = increased chances those weapons will be used.

Any sane person would also advocate for the complete ban on semi-automatics.

jaywalker · October 3, 2017

Just now, Golgota said:

In 99% of the countries it is :

Sorry you cannot.

It seems to be a better solution

It's part of the USA culture.

You'll no sooner change that, than getting Thai folks to give up their idea of "Losing Face".

More stupid laws will not stop criminals.

My .357 will though, if I need to protect my family or myself.

boomerangutang · October 3, 2017

1 hour ago, jaywalker said:

Psychos seem to know more about easy access than I ever will.

------------

You need to be....

You must live.....

The machine gun you wish to acquire must have....

You must locate a....

You must purchase the machine gun....

, 7, 8, 9. 10, 11, ....so what

Boomer's response: You can have 14,000 laws. It doesn't matter, if the laws are skirted. There are laws against pot and whiskey and taking a label off a mattress. Rednecks get a kick out of breaking gun laws, just as hippies get kicks out of smoking pot where they shouldn't. What's most important are citizens' moral compass. Rednecks have a moral compass which points at worshiping guns and hoping they have a chance to blow people away for some little reason, like trespassing on their lawn, or looking at their trailer-trash g.f. in the wrong way.

Secondly, laws are only as good as their enforcement. Gun laws aren't enforced. If so, explain how the murderer was able to get 33 automatic weapons up to the 32nd floor, along with boxes of ammo. Did the security guards at the hotel think he was transporting electric guitars?

Golgota · October 3, 2017

13 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

Wish you would use full words, so I could understand you.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Us citizens represent 4.4% of the world citizen. However they own 50% of the guns owned by citizen worldwide..

boomerangutang · October 3, 2017

16 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

It's part of the USA culture.

You'll no sooner change that, than getting Thai folks to give up their idea of "Losing Face".

More stupid laws will not stop criminals.

My .357 will though, if I need to protect my family or myself.

Or if someone slips their car into a parking space which you were about to take, you could stop them with a bullet through the forehead. That's one of my main beefs about the gun-crazed USA. With 200 million guns everywhere, one has to rely on the cool-headedness of each individual gun-owner. I trust a gun owner about as much as I trust a black widow spider on my neck. Maybe not all of them, but many are quick-to-anger, very easily offended, and eager to find any excuse to fire bullets into other peoples' bodies.

I personally know people in California who killed their neighbors with guns. I've also known folks who were killed by hot-headed gun owners. ....and that's just a tiny tiny fraction of the people killed and maimed in the USA. The USA is sick. It's choking on its own vomit with its gun crazed rednecks, who are feeling empowered by white-supremacists in the WH.

Edited October 3, 2017 by boomerangutang

Golgota · October 3, 2017

11 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

It's part of the USA culture.

You'll no sooner change that, than getting Thai folks to give up their idea of "Losing Face".

More stupid laws will not stop criminals.

My .357 will though, if I need to protect my family or myself.

Ahhh i was waiting for the "usa culture" card, so mass shooting is also a part of usa culture?

Golgota · October 3, 2017

12 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

It's part of the USA culture.

You'll no sooner change that, than getting Thai folks to give up their idea of "Losing Face".

More stupid laws will not stop criminals.

My .357 will though, if I need to protect my family or myself.

Maybe your .357 will also kill you or your kid or your wife or your neighbour after a noisy evening in his garden..

jaywalker · October 3, 2017

3 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

You missed my point by a country mile. A prior poster alluded to being a mean SOB because he could pull the little trigger on a gun. I was asking if the toddler who shot his dad, or the woman who killed her daughter are mean SOB's because they too can pull a trigger - easier than pushing down the plunger on a toaster.

are automatic weapons available, outside of military/police, in the US? I ask that honestly. If automatic weapons are legally available to civilians, than the US is in deeper shit than Syria.

Crazy people will be crazy, but if they have access to deadly weapons then they're capability to cause harm is increased. If I'm in charge of a kindergarten, I'm not going to have strike-matches, razor blades and open bottles of petrol all over the place. Increased weapons = increased chances those weapons will be used.

Any sane person would also advocate for the complete ban on semi-automatics.

I see your point, to a point.

Prohibition caused the rise of the mafia.

Marijuana = Illegal so we have the drug cartels.

Laws change absolutely nothing a criminal might do.

I fail to see the logic in "More Laws". What the killer did was despicable beyond description. YES.

I LIKE having a pistol handy. My .357 Magnum Ruger scares the shit out of me! My brother's AR-15 scares the shit out of me!

I'm just as cautions when I get under my truck to work on it. It scares the shit out of me. If it rolled, I'd be dead.

I fail to see the difference. I take care around both.

I'll go out on a bit of a limb here, and say the Liberal Media (along with a bazillion gov't regulations) have divided the USA to the point that some folks go insane and start shooting...or running over people with cars/trucks/vans/buses.

jaywalker · October 3, 2017

7 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Boomer's response: You can have 14,000 laws. It doesn't matter, if the laws are skirted. There are laws against pot and whiskey and taking a label off a mattress. Rednecks get a kick out of breaking gun laws, just as hippies get kicks out of smoking pot where they shouldn't. What's most important are citizens' moral compass. Rednecks have a moral compass which points at worshiping guns and hoping they have a chance to blow people away for some little reason, like trespassing on their lawn, or looking at their trailer-trash g.f. in the wrong way.

Secondly, laws are only as good as their enforcement. Gun laws aren't enforced. If so, explain how the murderer was able to get 33 automatic weapons up to the 32nd floor, along with boxes of ammo. Did the security guards at the hotel think he was transporting electric guitars?

And your answer is more laws? Genius!

Golgota · October 3, 2017

Just now, jaywalker said:

And your answer is more laws? Genius!

Answer is less guns, as long as you and other gun polishers don t understand this the average 350 mass shooting a year in USA will continue..

jaywalker · October 3, 2017

2 minutes ago, Golgota said:

Maybe your .357 will also kill you or your kid or your wife or your neighbour after a noisy evening in his garden..

Yep. It will jump out of the drawer next to my bed, and going screaming into the yard to kill my family.

All by itself.

Maybe I'll get run over by a bus today as well.

Throatwobbler · October 3, 2017

2 hours ago, jaywalker said:

Err. the MACHINE GUN used was already illegal.

Fat lot of good that did.

It was psycho that pulled the trigger, plain and simple.

The machine gun you THINK he used was illegal. I would rather wait for the law enforcement's view about which guns where used. In the meantime how many people do you think are acceptable to be slaughtered so that you can keep polishing your shiny toy.

jaywalker · October 3, 2017

4 minutes ago, Golgota said:

Answer is less guns, as long as you and other gun polishers don t understand this the average 350 mass shooting a year in USA will continue..

HMMM......If I'd been in the room next door to the killer, and heard that gunfire, there's a very good chance I could have SAVED some lives.

Machiavelli · October 3, 2017

Someone is making a pretty penny selling guns and hawking the second amendment at the same time. People with delusions are given a piece of colored cloth and printed paper to worship while the gun lobby runs to the bank. The gun lobby will hide behind the Second Amendment and continue to make serious money. Massacres will continue.

Throatwobbler · October 3, 2017

2 hours ago, samsensam said:

if it had been an islamist terrorist you can imagine what would be happening now, but as it's just an white american guy with a gun or two or three... killing over 50 and wounding over 500 what's going to be done? nothing. what's going to change? nothing.

these people are insane, that's about right.

this puts all the mad, insane, illogical things to see in thailand right in the shade.

america first for insanity, too right, and very very sad.

If this had been done by an Islamic terrorist then many people on here would have W***ed themselves into oblivion about the need to stop those people having guns. Now that it has been shown that it was an old white guy the very same people are W***ing themselves do not take our guns. Such a pathetic group of people.

boomerangutang · October 3, 2017

4 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

And your answer is more laws? Genius!

Read my post again. I mentioned the need for moral compass, primarily. Redneck gun lovers have a moral compass that worships guns. It's based on fears, worries of being unneeded and lots of other mental problems. They're the biggest poppers of Pharma drugs and rate highest in suicides. Rednecks are feeling emboldened now, because they've got an advocate in Trump.

I saw a pic of a community in Norway gathering in a field for a Mayday celebration. girls and boys and people of all ages, enjoying each others' company, smiling, dancing around a maypole. It's the polar opposite of how I see US rednecks: their idea of a gathering is getting together with their guns and beer, and talking about how they wish someone would try to break into their trailer so they can blow their heads off.

About laws: we have laws because people need to be compelled to do the right things, as dictated by their particular societies. It's too big a topic to discuss here now. Suffice it to say; the NRA and Republicans want to make all sorts of guns as easily available as possible, and let the medics sort out the carnage.

Noam Chomsky said recently, "the Republican Party is the most dangerous organization in the history of the world." Is he wrong?

jaywalker · October 3, 2017

11 minutes ago, Golgota said:

Answer is less guns, as long as you and other gun polishers don t understand this the average 350 mass shooting a year in USA will continue..

Answer is less crazy people that listen to CNN & take it as Gospel.

Machiavelli · October 3, 2017

2 hours ago, jaywalker said:

The MACHINE GUN he used WAS ILLEGAL!

Yet I get treated like a criminal for having a LEGAL .38 in my truck, in a holster, inside the glove box in the USA. It's not even a "concealed weapon". No different than having a fishing pole in the back of my truck!

That cop just HAD to run the serial number on it though, to see if it was stolen!

I got it by accident...loaned a friend $950 USD, so he could pay for (of all things) his police academy tuition. He insisted that I take that pistol as collateral. I still have it 25+ years later.

I lost all trust in anybody with a badge that day.

Oh yeah, I have never shot anybody in my 50 years on this planet.

"Yea though I walk through the Valley of The Shadow of Death, I shall Fear No Evil, For I am the Meanest SOB in The Valley".

Go easy fella. Might hurt yourself.

jaywalker · October 3, 2017

2 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Read my post again. I mentioned the need for moral compass, primarily. Redneck gun lovers have a moral compass that worships guns. It's based on fears, worries of being unneeded and lots of other mental problems. They're the biggest poppers of Pharma drugs and rate highest in suicides. Rednecks are feeling emboldened now, because they've got an advocate in Trump.

I saw a pic of a community in Norway gathering in a field for a Mayday celebration. girls and boys and people of all ages, enjoying each others' company, smiling, dancing around a maypole. It's the polar opposite of how I see US rednecks: their idea of a gathering is getting together with their guns and beer, and talking about how they wish someone would try to break into their trailer so they can blow their heads off.

About laws: we have laws because people need to be compelled to do the right things, as dictated by their particular societies. It's too big a topic to discuss here now. Suffice it to say; the NRA and Republicans want to make all sorts of guns as easily available as possible, and let the medics sort out the carnage.

Noam Chomsky said recently, "the Republican Party is the most dangerous organization in the history of the world." Is he wrong?

I'm as Redneck as they get! I grew up in the swamps of Florida and my Dad's cousin had KKK rallies across the road from us!

I shit you not!

Burning crosses etc.

I tossed the racism when I joined the Army at 17, as it was idiotic/bad/stupid.

I grew up with guns. Love them.

I never blame a gun, just the idiot on the trigger. I have never felt the urge to kill, but I will protect myself.

Throatwobbler · October 3, 2017

1 hour ago, jaywalker said:

Psychos seem to know more about easy access than I ever will.

------------

You need to be eligible to possess firearms in general.

You must live in a state where NFA items are permitted and machine guns, specifically, are legal to possess.

The machine gun you wish to acquire must have been manufactured on or before May 19, 1986. That is the cutoff date for entries to be made in the NFRTR (National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record), the registry of all NFA items in the United States including machine guns.

You must locate a Class III dealer (FFL01+SOT) that sells or can transfer in the machine gun you wish to acquire in your state of residence.

You must purchase the machine gun upfront prior to transfer and have it shipped to your Class III dealer. For a full-auto M16, this will be anywhere from $12,000 and up. Typical prices for an M16 hover around $14,000 to $16,000.

Once purchased and with your dealer, the dealer will fill out the Form 4 application on your behalf to submission to the BATFE and collect your $200 NFA transfer stamp tax.

The application will be submitted. Now you wait 8+ months for the full FBI background check and BATFE processing to complete.

Once the Form 4 is processed, it will be returned to the dealer along with the tax stamp which is part of your paperwork. You can then take possession of your military grade fully automatic firearm and take it home.

The tax stamp must be kept with the firearm it belongs to at all times! The tax stamp is your only affirmative defense to prove you are not in possession of an illegal machine gun. The tax stamp is proof you paid the transfer tax and legally transferred the machine gun. Ranges that allow Class III will want to see the stamp. If you get pulled over and the gun is discovered/inspected, law enforcement will definitely want to see it too. You may be required to present the firearm for inspection on demand by the BATFE.

You may not transport the fully automatic firearm across state lines for any purpose without prior consent of the Federal government. You must request this in advance and provide details on where the firearm is going, when you are leaving and when it will return to its registered location of residence.

You cannot leave the presence of your fully automatic firearm. If someone else is shooting it, you must be with it, legally speaking. The one exception to this is if you have formed a legal trust for the purpose of possessing the firearm, in which case all beneficiaries of the trust (usually family or employees) may have access to the firearm.

So yes, provided you meet and abide by all of conditions above, a normal citizen can purchase and possess a fully automatic military grade assault rifle.

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I am sorry that you would rather have people slaughtered by guns than try and do anything about it. Just shows that your love of playing with a shiny toy is worth more than a persons life. I wonder what you will say if it is your family caught in the middle of the next senseless killing.

boomerangutang · October 3, 2017

1 minute ago, jaywalker said:

I'm as Redneck as they get! I grew up in the swamps of Florida and my Dad's cousin had KKK rallies across the road from us!

I shit you not!

Burning crosses etc.

I tossed the racism when I joined the Army at 17, as it was idiotic/bad/stupid.

I grew up with guns. Love them.

I never blame a gun, just the idiot on the trigger. I have never felt the urge to kill, but I will protect myself.

So, you sound responsible with loaded weapons. What about the other 150 million or so Americans with weapons? That's a big number. You see the situation here? Us regular people are walking/driving around the US, and we don't know when one of your gun-loving buddies are going to get angry and start shooting. We just don't know. If those millions of folks didn't have guns, there would be less chance of gun carnage. Am I right?

As for the soggy excuse: "I need a gun to protect my house and family." Honestly, how many people do you know, who have been in a situation where they needed a gun to protect their families? Don't give me stories of others. Tell me of yourself or people you personally know.

When I was a kid, I asked my dad what he would do if he heard an intruder in the house. He said he would get a nine iron and clobber the person. I thought that was a pretty good response. In a dark house which I'm familiar with, an intruder, even with a loaded gun, would be at a disadvantage to a me with a golf club.

The 'protect my family and house' thing by gun-huggers is a hollow excuse. It's quite rare that a house break-in is foiled by gun-wielding houseowners. Many more accidental gun deaths occur, than successful shootings of thieves. Would you take a chance on a toddler in your house getting shot or shooting someone? I wouldn't.

Grouse · October 3, 2017

2 hours ago, jaywalker said:

Which part of the killer using an ILLEGAL weapon do you not get?

The part where machine guns may be legal or illegal.

jaywalker · October 3, 2017

2 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

So, you sound responsible with loaded weapons. What about the other 150 million or so Americans with weapons? That's a big number. You see the situation here? Us regular people are walking/driving around the US, and we don't know when one of your gun-loving buddies are going to get angry and start shooting. We just don't know. If those millions of folks didn't have guns, there would be less chance of gun carnage. Am I right?

As for the soggy excuse: "I need a gun to protect my house and family." Honestly, how many people do you know, who have been in a situation where they needed a gun to protect their families? Don't give me stories of others. Tell me of yourself or people you personally know.

When I was a kid, I asked my dad what he would do if he heard an intruder in the house. He said he would get a nine iron and clobber the person. I thought that was a pretty good response. In a dark house which I'm familiar with, an intruder, even with a loaded gun, would be at a disadvantage to a me with a golf club.

The 'protect my family and house' thing by gun-huggers is a hollow excuse. It's quite rare that a house break-in is foiled by gun-wielding houseowners. Many more accidental gun deaths occur, than successful shootings of thieves. Would you take a chance on a toddler in your house getting shot or shooting someone? I wouldn't.

To each his own. I have enough brains to keep weapons (includes butcher knives, machetes, spinning lawn mower blades etc) away from kids.

If you do not, then you should not own any of the above.

boomerangutang · October 3, 2017

5 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

I'll peel out my .357 and do something about it, instead of just wringing my hands and crying.

BTW, this was country music concert, slap full of Rednecks.

Why weren't the retarded folks all packing a heater, and putting down suppressive fire?

OH...Because they law says they cannot do that.

Oh, you stepped in it this time. When prior gun massacres occurred in the US, the NRA would say something ridiculous like, "if everyone had guns, then the bad guys couldn't do their damage." Tell that to the Sandy Hook parents. Should their toddler boys and girls have been packing guns at school? .....or their kindergarten teachers?

As for the Vegas massacre, even if half the people there were carrying guns, how effective would they be shooting up in the air, at a room on the 32nd floor, across the road? The people being mowed down didn't even know what was really going on for awhile. There was a band playing. The rat rat rat rat probably blended in with the drummer in the band. After 2 minutes, some people were shouting 'get down!' ....but they didn't know that 'getting down' wouldn't save them from a hail of bullets from above.

NRA, as always, was dead wrong. Republicans are also indirectly responsible for the carnage, as they've enabled crazies like the murderer to do his dastardly deeds. Now Republicans want to legalize silencers. Oh boy, future murderers will love that. If the Vegas killer had silencers, he would have been able to kill another 100 people. whoopee! for 2nd Amenders.

boomerangutang · October 3, 2017

6 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

To each his own. I have enough brains to keep weapons (includes butcher knives, machetes, spinning lawn mower blades etc) away from kids.

If you do not, then you should not own any of the above.

You can't answer my q's straight out, because you know you're wrong.

You talk about your own self-righteousness, but the topic is about the sick gun culture THROUGHOUT AMERICA.

Opl · October 3, 2017

17 hours ago, inThailand said:

Guns don't kill. People do the killing.

and .. The NRA does not claim responsibility for the mass shooting / killing.

and ... Trump is praying

and ... If the good guys had carried rocket launchers they would have disarmed the killer in no time

and ... " if we had them why can't we use them?"

What could possibly be wrong?

Edited October 3, 2017 by Opl

jaywalker · October 3, 2017

You forgot one part. You just roll over and die without being able to fight back.

That IS the Politically Correct way isn't it?

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