Born In Thailand, But A Thai National Or Not ?

[andy1308]

Hi everyone,

I have a friend in the UK who is considering a job offer to come and work in Bangkok. Her situation is unusual because she was actually born in Thailand but adopted when very young. She's a British citizen and passport holder (in her mid-20s I should add), but because she was born here is she also entitled to, or is already, a Thai national ? She has a Thai birth certificate.

Does Thailand allow dual nationality ? If she is entitled to 'become' a Thai national how should she go about it ?

I wonder if anyone has any advice or suggestions for her ? I'll supply more information if that would help.

Thanks in anticipation.

[astral]

I think the defiing factor is the nationality of the parents, and/or

their status in Thailand.

If she can show that one of her parents is a Thai national, then so is she.

The same applies if one parent had PR in Thailand.

It is detailed on the MFA site if I remember rightly.

[andy1308]

Okay- thanks Astral. Her natural parents are Thai (or at least one of them is) and that is almost certainly stated on her birth certificate. However, the only parents she has ever known are the ones who adopted here, and they are UK nationals.

Thanks for the info, and I will check out the MFA site.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I think the defiing factor is the nationality of the parents, and/or

their status in Thailand.

If she can show that one of her parents is a Thai national, then so is she.

The same applies if one parent had PR in Thailand.

It is detailed on the MFA site if I remember rightly.

The lady needs to go to the Thai Embassy in London with her birth certificate and apply for a Thai passport. Thailand and the UK governments raise no objections whatsoever to duality of nationalities.

[andy1308]

I think the defiing factor is the nationality of the parents, and/or

their status in Thailand.

If she can show that one of her parents is a Thai national, then so is she.

The same applies if one parent had PR in Thailand.

It is detailed on the MFA site if I remember rightly.

The lady needs to go to the Thai Embassy in London with her birth certificate and apply for a Thai passport. Thailand and the UK governments raise no objections whatsoever to duality of nationalities.

Thanks very much for that information .. I wasn't sure whether, like Malaysia, Thailand does not allow dual nationality. I will pass on that information to her, and also report back so anyone in a similar situation will know what to do. Thanks again .. it is much appreciated.

[danone]

have a friend who was born 40 years ago in thailand. both her parents are foreigners.

she recently got the thai passport without having to go via residency permit first.

born here seems to give you a right to apply for thai citizenship. maybe its slightly more difficult if none of the parents is thai.

[thai_narak]

have a friend who was born 40 years ago in thailand. both her parents are foreigners.

she recently got the thai passport without having to go via residency permit first.

born here seems to give you a right to apply for thai citizenship. maybe its slightly more difficult if none of the parents is thai.

what do you mean?

[Briggsy]

have a friend who was born 40 years ago in thailand. both her parents are foreigners.

she recently got the thai passport without having to go via residency permit first.

born here seems to give you a right to apply for thai citizenship. maybe its slightly more difficult if none of the parents is thai.

what do you mean?

Whilst awaiting more info from Danone, I understand that it is almost impossible for people with no Thai parents to gain Thai nationality. Unless of course you are a Chinese tycoon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[adjan jb]

Thailand and the UK governments raise no objections whatsoever to duality of nationalities.

Don't they have to choose when they turn 18 ?

[thai_narak]

have a friend who was born 40 years ago in thailand. both her parents are foreigners.

she recently got the thai passport without having to go via residency permit first.

born here seems to give you a right to apply for thai citizenship. maybe its slightly more difficult if none of the parents is thai.

what do you mean?

Whilst awaiting more info from Danone, I understand that it is almost impossible for people with no Thai parents to gain Thai nationality. Unless of course you are a Chinese tycoon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

no no no... i mean danone sentences are in a way contradicting. according to thai nationality act below:

Section 7. bis. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality if at the time of his birth, his lawful father or his father who did not marry his mother, or his mother was:

(1) the person having been given leniency for temporary residence in Kingdom as a special case;

(2) the person having been permitted to stay temporarily in the Kingdom;

(3) the person having entered and resided in the Thai Kingdom without

permission under the law on immigration.

Section 8. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality, if at the time of his birth, his father or mother was:

(1) Head of a diplomatic mission or a member thereof;

(2) Head of a consular mission or a member thereof;

(3) An officer or expert of an international organisation;

(4) Member of a family, either as a relative under patronage or servant, who came from abroad to reside with the person in (1), (2) or (3).

so, it should not be difficult if you are born in Thailand eventhough your parents are not Thai.

Edited January 10, 2007 by thai_narak

[Briggsy]

have a friend who was born 40 years ago in thailand. both her parents are foreigners.

she recently got the thai passport without having to go via residency permit first.

born here seems to give you a right to apply for thai citizenship. maybe its slightly more difficult if none of the parents is thai.

what do you mean?

Whilst awaiting more info from Danone, I understand that it is almost impossible for people with no Thai parents to gain Thai nationality. Unless of course you are a Chinese tycoon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

no no no... i mean danone sentences are in a way contradicting. according to thai nationality act below:

Section 7. bis. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality if at the time of his birth, his lawful father or his father who did not marry his mother, or his mother was:

(1) the person having been given leniency for temporary residence in Kingdom as a special case;

(2) the person having been permitted to stay temporarily in the Kingdom;

(3) the person having entered and resided in the Thai Kingdom without

permission under the law on immigration.

Section 8. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality, if at the time of his birth, his father or mother was:

(1) Head of a diplomatic mission or a member thereof;

(2) Head of a consular mission or a member thereof;

(3) An officer or expert of an international organisation;

(4) Member of a family, either as a relative under patronage or servant, who came from abroad to reside with the person in (1), (2) or (3).

so, it should not be difficult if you are born in Thailand eventhough your parents are not Thai.

I'm not reading this the same as you. This talks about NOT acquiring Thai nationality. Maybe I'm not very good at understanding legalese. Please help me out here.

[samran]

Firstly to the OP,

If you have the Thai BC, and it says on it that you are Thai, then yes, you can apply for a passport. Being in the UK, the embassy is the path of least resistance.

As for person born here 40 years ago, it may very well be that back then, Thailand applied the concept that being born on Thai soil made one Thai (regardless of the parents immigration status). This is similar to the concept that applies today in the US, but was (I believe) abolished in places like the UK back in 1981 or in Australia in August 1986.

The law has since been revised, and from my reading, today to become a Thai national, you have to be born in Thailand with at least one parent a Thai national or a PR, or if born overseas, have at least one parent who was a Thai national.

[Briggsy]

Firstly to the OP,

If you have the Thai BC, and it says on it that you are Thai, then yes, you can apply for a passport. Being in the UK, the embassy is the path of least resistance.

As for person born here 40 years ago, it may very well be that back then, Thailand applied the concept that being born on Thai soil made one Thai (regardless of the parents immigration status). This is similar to the concept that applies today in the US, but was (I believe) abolished in places like the UK back in 1981 or in Australia in August 1986.

The law has since been revised, and from my reading, today to become a Thai national, you have to be born in Thailand with at least one parent a Thai national or a PR, or if born overseas, have at least one parent who was a Thai national.

This sounds more like it. I was thinking of the 500,000 stateless hill tribes, many of whom were born in Thailand and the people who grew up in orphanages in Thailand and lack any proof of the nationality of their parents. In fact, reading your post, place of birth is irrelevant, it's the parental nationality that counts.

[thai_narak]

have a friend who was born 40 years ago in thailand. both her parents are foreigners.

she recently got the thai passport without having to go via residency permit first.

born here seems to give you a right to apply for thai citizenship. maybe its slightly more difficult if none of the parents is thai.

what do you mean?

Whilst awaiting more info from Danone, I understand that it is almost impossible for people with no Thai parents to gain Thai nationality. Unless of course you are a Chinese tycoon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

no no no... i mean danone sentences are in a way contradicting. according to thai nationality act below:

Section 7. bis. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality if at the time of his birth, his lawful father or his father who did not marry his mother, or his mother was:

(1) the person having been given leniency for temporary residence in Kingdom as a special case;

(2) the person having been permitted to stay temporarily in the Kingdom;

(3) the person having entered and resided in the Thai Kingdom without

permission under the law on immigration.

Section 8. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality, if at the time of his birth, his father or mother was:

(1) Head of a diplomatic mission or a member thereof;

(2) Head of a consular mission or a member thereof;

(3) An officer or expert of an international organisation;

(4) Member of a family, either as a relative under patronage or servant, who came from abroad to reside with the person in (1), (2) or (3).

so, it should not be difficult if you are born in Thailand eventhough your parents are not Thai.

I'm not reading this the same as you. This talks about NOT acquiring Thai nationality. Maybe I'm not very good at understanding legalese. Please help me out here.

just negate the law and it says... if your parents (both alien) are not like this or like that blah, blah, blah, then you can acquire Thai nationality. i didn't know that was hard to understand.

[Briggsy]

have a friend who was born 40 years ago in thailand. both her parents are foreigners.

she recently got the thai passport without having to go via residency permit first.

born here seems to give you a right to apply for thai citizenship. maybe its slightly more difficult if none of the parents is thai.

what do you mean?

Whilst awaiting more info from Danone, I understand that it is almost impossible for people with no Thai parents to gain Thai nationality. Unless of course you are a Chinese tycoon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

no no no... i mean danone sentences are in a way contradicting. according to thai nationality act below:

Section 7. bis. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality if at the time of his birth, his lawful father or his father who did not marry his mother, or his mother was:

(1) the person having been given leniency for temporary residence in Kingdom as a special case;

(2) the person having been permitted to stay temporarily in the Kingdom;

(3) the person having entered and resided in the Thai Kingdom without

permission under the law on immigration.

Section 8. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality, if at the time of his birth, his father or mother was:

(1) Head of a diplomatic mission or a member thereof;

(2) Head of a consular mission or a member thereof;

(3) An officer or expert of an international organisation;

(4) Member of a family, either as a relative under patronage or servant, who came from abroad to reside with the person in (1), (2) or (3).

so, it should not be difficult if you are born in Thailand eventhough your parents are not Thai.

I'm not reading this the same as you. This talks about NOT acquiring Thai nationality. Maybe I'm not very good at understanding legalese. Please help me out here.

just negate the law and it says... if your parents (both alien) are not like this or like that blah, blah, blah, then you can acquire Thai nationality. i didn't know that was hard to understand.

But don't the categories here catch absolutely everybody who is not a Thai national except perhaps permanent residents? This was why I could not follow your comment "should not be difficult". Please excuse my confusion.

[thai_narak]

have a friend who was born 40 years ago in thailand. both her parents are foreigners.

she recently got the thai passport without having to go via residency permit first.

born here seems to give you a right to apply for thai citizenship. maybe its slightly more difficult if none of the parents is thai.

what do you mean?

Whilst awaiting more info from Danone, I understand that it is almost impossible for people with no Thai parents to gain Thai nationality. Unless of course you are a Chinese tycoon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

no no no... i mean danone sentences are in a way contradicting. according to thai nationality act below:

Section 7. bis. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality if at the time of his birth, his lawful father or his father who did not marry his mother, or his mother was:

(1) the person having been given leniency for temporary residence in Kingdom as a special case;

(2) the person having been permitted to stay temporarily in the Kingdom;

(3) the person having entered and resided in the Thai Kingdom without

permission under the law on immigration.

Section 8. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality, if at the time of his birth, his father or mother was:

(1) Head of a diplomatic mission or a member thereof;

(2) Head of a consular mission or a member thereof;

(3) An officer or expert of an international organisation;

(4) Member of a family, either as a relative under patronage or servant, who came from abroad to reside with the person in (1), (2) or (3).

so, it should not be difficult if you are born in Thailand eventhough your parents are not Thai.

I'm not reading this the same as you. This talks about NOT acquiring Thai nationality. Maybe I'm not very good at understanding legalese. Please help me out here.

just negate the law and it says... if your parents (both alien) are not like this or like that blah, blah, blah, then you can acquire Thai nationality. i didn't know that was hard to understand.

But don't the categories here catch absolutely everybody who is not a Thai national except perhaps permanent residents? This was why I could not follow your comment "should not be difficult". Please excuse my confusion.

we are only talking about the persons who were born in Thailand with alien parents.

Edited January 10, 2007 by thai_narak

[Briggsy]

have a friend who was born 40 years ago in thailand. both her parents are foreigners.

she recently got the thai passport without having to go via residency permit first.

born here seems to give you a right to apply for thai citizenship. maybe its slightly more difficult if none of the parents is thai.

what do you mean?

Whilst awaiting more info from Danone, I understand that it is almost impossible for people with no Thai parents to gain Thai nationality. Unless of course you are a Chinese tycoon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

no no no... i mean danone sentences are in a way contradicting. according to thai nationality act below:

Section 7. bis. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality if at the time of his birth, his lawful father or his father who did not marry his mother, or his mother was:

(1) the person having been given leniency for temporary residence in Kingdom as a special case;

(2) the person having been permitted to stay temporarily in the Kingdom;

(3) the person having entered and resided in the Thai Kingdom without

permission under the law on immigration.

Section 8. A person born within the Thai Kingdom of alien parents does not acquire Thai nationality, if at the time of his birth, his father or mother was:

(1) Head of a diplomatic mission or a member thereof;

(2) Head of a consular mission or a member thereof;

(3) An officer or expert of an international organisation;

(4) Member of a family, either as a relative under patronage or servant, who came from abroad to reside with the person in (1), (2) or (3).

so, it should not be difficult if you are born in Thailand eventhough your parents are not Thai.

I'm not reading this the same as you. This talks about NOT acquiring Thai nationality. Maybe I'm not very good at understanding legalese. Please help me out here.

just negate the law and it says... if your parents (both alien) are not like this or like that blah, blah, blah, then you can acquire Thai nationality. i didn't know that was hard to understand.

But don't the categories here catch absolutely everybody who is not a Thai national except perhaps permanent residents? This was why I could not follow your comment "should not be difficult". Please excuse my confusion.

we are only talking about the persons who were born in Thailand with alien parents.

Yes, that's what I mean. The categories for the parents catch virtually all alien parents except permanent residents. Thus if you are born in Thailand to alien parents, you will not be able to gain nationality due to the regulations you quoted. Do you see my point?

[thai_narak]

Briggsy, you are right. I didn't notice the (2) in Section 7.bis that at least the mother has to be a permanent resident. Is that what you're looking at?

[Briggsy]

Briggsy, you are right. I didn't notice the (2) in Section 7.bis that at least the mother has to be a permanent resident. Is that what you're looking at?

Indeed, this is why Danone's post needs more info. It may be that Samran's speculation that the person in Danone's post gained nationality because he was born or applied when previous laxer regulations were in force. Or perhaps this person's parents, although aliens, held permanent residence.

So we wait.

[andy1308]

Firstly to the OP,

If you have the Thai BC, and it says on it that you are Thai, then yes, you can apply for a passport. Being in the UK, the embassy is the path of least resistance.

As for person born here 40 years ago, it may very well be that back then, Thailand applied the concept that being born on Thai soil made one Thai (regardless of the parents immigration status). This is similar to the concept that applies today in the US, but was (I believe) abolished in places like the UK back in 1981 or in Australia in August 1986.

The law has since been revised, and from my reading, today to become a Thai national, you have to be born in Thailand with at least one parent a Thai national or a PR, or if born overseas, have at least one parent who was a Thai national.

Samran, thanks for your comments. After posting I looked back in the posts and noticed you seem to be the authority on this subject. <smiles> My friend's situation is complicated because, although she was born in Bangkok, she was adopted by non-Thai parents almost immediately. I am pretty sure her Thai birth certificate includes the name of her biological mother (and possibly father) but, like you said, it seems her best option is the Embassy in London for clarification.

It's interesting though because the people within our company who deal with work permits and things like this told me, without checking with anyone, that she is farang so she needs a work permit. It's going to be interesting to see how they react when she arrives with her Thai passport and starts working (fingers crossed of course).

[Briggsy]

Firstly to the OP,

If you have the Thai BC, and it says on it that you are Thai, then yes, you can apply for a passport. Being in the UK, the embassy is the path of least resistance.

As for person born here 40 years ago, it may very well be that back then, Thailand applied the concept that being born on Thai soil made one Thai (regardless of the parents immigration status). This is similar to the concept that applies today in the US, but was (I believe) abolished in places like the UK back in 1981 or in Australia in August 1986.

The law has since been revised, and from my reading, today to become a Thai national, you have to be born in Thailand with at least one parent a Thai national or a PR, or if born overseas, have at least one parent who was a Thai national.

Samran, thanks for your comments. After posting I looked back in the posts and noticed you seem to be the authority on this subject. <smiles> My friend's situation is complicated because, although she was born in Bangkok, she was adopted by non-Thai parents almost immediately. I am pretty sure her Thai birth certificate includes the name of her biological mother (and possibly father) but, like you said, it seems her best option is the Embassy in London for clarification.

It's interesting though because the people within our company who deal with work permits and things like this told me, without checking with anyone, that she is farang so she needs a work permit. It's going to be interesting to see how they react when she arrives with her Thai passport and starts working (fingers crossed of course).

I'm confident there will be no racist reactions in your office. Looking Thai, she will be accepted as a 'Thai Inter'.

[andy1308]

Briggsy,

Sorry - I wasn't thinking that way, just how they would react to being proved wrong. My friends knows is will be hard because she looks Thai but is unable, at the moment, to speak or read Thai. Actually, having her in the company gives me an excuse to have some proper lessons too. At least I will have someone to learn with. <smiles>

[Briggsy]

Briggsy,

Sorry - I wasn't thinking that way, just how they would react to being proved wrong. My friends knows is will be hard because she looks Thai but is unable, at the moment, to speak or read Thai. Actually, having her in the company gives me an excuse to have some proper lessons too. At least I will have someone to learn with. <smiles>

Righto, 2 points here. If you think they will lose face, perhaps having previously insisted she will require a WP. Then, introduce some face-saving new info along the lines, "Wow, it turns out she has Thai nationality. Gosh, she didn't say that before!"

Regarding acceptance, previous post applies looks Thai is Thai.

So no probs.

[andy1308]

... and I have to say from a purely person perspective, if she can get a Thai passport and does not require a work permit, it means I can hire one more person with 'Western' experience - although if it turns out she does need one she will get it because she has the talent, experience and ability to contribute something to the company.

[Briggsy]

... and I have to say from a purely person perspective, if she can get a Thai passport and does not require a work permit, it means I can hire one more person with 'Western' experience - although if it turns out she does need one she will get it because she has the talent, experience and ability to contribute something to the company.

looks like you're on to a winner.

[samran]

Firstly to the OP,

If you have the Thai BC, and it says on it that you are Thai, then yes, you can apply for a passport. Being in the UK, the embassy is the path of least resistance.

As for person born here 40 years ago, it may very well be that back then, Thailand applied the concept that being born on Thai soil made one Thai (regardless of the parents immigration status). This is similar to the concept that applies today in the US, but was (I believe) abolished in places like the UK back in 1981 or in Australia in August 1986.

The law has since been revised, and from my reading, today to become a Thai national, you have to be born in Thailand with at least one parent a Thai national or a PR, or if born overseas, have at least one parent who was a Thai national.

Samran, thanks for your comments. After posting I looked back in the posts and noticed you seem to be the authority on this subject. <smiles> My friend's situation is complicated because, although she was born in Bangkok, she was adopted by non-Thai parents almost immediately. I am pretty sure her Thai birth certificate includes the name of her biological mother (and possibly father) but, like you said, it seems her best option is the Embassy in London for clarification.

It's interesting though because the people within our company who deal with work permits and things like this told me, without checking with anyone, that she is farang so she needs a work permit. It's going to be interesting to see how they react when she arrives with her Thai passport and starts working (fingers crossed of course).

No worries,

Look, I am also Thai-inter, with dual Aust and Thai PP's. There seems to be a bit of a logic gap here, as people sometimes ask me (eg bank, HR, etc) 'where is your work permit?' and I say, "well here in my Thai PP and ID card...why do I need a permit? You have a Thai ID card, do you need a permit?" It takes a moment for the penny to drop, but it does and then we are all fine and happy after that.

[grtaylor]

There was a time, historically, when anyone born in Thailand, regardless of their parents nationality, was entitled to a Thai passport, somewhat like the situation still pertaining in the US.

I have friends here, who's parents are both from UK, but were living here around 35 years ago when they were born. They have Thai nationality.

I'm not sure when this practice ceased.

G

[thai_narak]

There was a time, historically, when anyone born in Thailand, regardless of their parents nationality, was entitled to a Thai passport, somewhat like the situation still pertaining in the US.

I have friends here, who's parents are both from UK, but were living here around 35 years ago when they were born. They have Thai nationality.

I'm not sure when this practice ceased.

G

the thailand nationality act was amended in 1992 and your friends parent were in Thailand in 1972. it can be that the law then was different.

[Alliecat]

I gave birth to my son here in Thailand last year. I am Canadian my husband is from NZ. The baby can NOT have Thai citizenship. He would only be entitled to it if one or both of us were permanent residents - which we're not. Instead he has NZ and Canadian citizenship.... Being born here no longer automatically entitles you to a passport otherwise then all the refugees born in Thailand would also be entitled is how it was generally explained to me...

Sounds like your friend will still be eligible as I assume she was born prior to 1992 and if one or both parents are named on her original birth cert.

[bangkokbanks]

Sir: I do not think your friend will have any trouble at all, I encourage her to go to the Thai Consulate and get a Thai Passport. The forms may be downloadable on the web site in England, not sure? They were in Los Angeles. My kids were born in the States, we had no trouble at all obtaining a Thai Birth Certificate (mom obviouly Thai). Once we had the Birth Cert. we then applied for Passports, a simple formality. The kids were not as yet added to mom's house registration. The forms will ask about the house registration, which she may or may not have been added to at the time of her birth. Depending on the situation that may not be a problem because she has a Thai Birth Certificate. The only hold up could be the parent house registratoin, but if that is a problem the Thai immigration will want a good reason for not being able to produce it. Good Luck.