Thaksin faces more agony

[midas]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

Perhaps you could get the facts right and aim your comments where they should be - attack the lack of attention to the case against the police. 

Different actors same script

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Touchy. Must have hit your frail emotion. The junta want to be in charge and they muscled in and now that they running the country and that include managing the police force. 

 

Diversion Eric? What a surprise!

 

So tell us. Do you hold the former disgraced PM Thaksin responsible for the approx 3k extra judicial murders carried out during his war on drugs? Do you hold him accountable?

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Many many reasons, which we can speculate. Doesn't change the fact of who was in charge at the time and who seemed to have instigated it does it?

True true, we can only speculate. Quite similar to the excessive use of lethal weapons and live rounds in 2010. As you said, it doesn't change the fact who was in charge and who gave the orders.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Denim said:

Thaksin faces more agony

Another typically shoddy sensationalist headline from the Nation.

You really do have to wonder where they get their editors and proof writers. Of all the words in the English lexicon  they always seem to grab one that suits their own silly view of things. I mean .......how exactly is a multi millionaire living in the lap of luxury in any agony. Has he got hemorrhoids that have just ruptured or what ?

 

 

Indeed. He'll simply leave it to his army of lawyers and spin doctors to deal with, as usual. If any case does get too warm they'll be an earnest search for another minion to throw under the bus!

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

True true, we can only speculate. Quite similar to the excessive use of lethal weapons and live rounds in 2010. As you said, it doesn't change the fact who was in charge and who gave the orders.

 

What orders Eric - we, you too, have no idea of the orders given in 2010.

 

However,  the then PM was more self proclaiming about his war on drugs. Presumably seeing it as a publicity opportunity!

 

As this topic is about Thaksin and the various criminal cases he's avoiding, do try and keep on topic. Whatever anyone else has or hasn't done is irrelevant. And we're all aware of the Thaksin lovers inclination to divert topics they can't defend!

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Diversion Eric? What a surprise!

 

So tell us. Do you hold the former disgraced PM Thaksin responsible for the approx 3k extra judicial murders carried out during his war on drugs? Do you hold him accountable?

You still quoting those unsubstantiated information of approx 3k extrajudiciary killings? I am disappointed. Thought you are a more knowledgeable and reasonable chap. 

[JAG]

33 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Just a "technicality" that he happened to be illegally occupying the position of caretaker PM, a position he seized with no authority other than his own. And some still pretend he's interested in democracy. Laughable.

 

Up to now they haven't seemed that bothered about extradition, for reasons we can speculate on. Let's see if that continues or not. There are plenty of countries that would welcome a multi billionaire who might be generous to their rulers. Whilst he's arguably a person politically persecuted I would think most countries are also aware of his very unsavory activities. He might own a mansion in London but has no chance to base himself there.

 

I doubt he'll ever give up trying not only to get back but to get control and power; albeit through a puppet of some description these days. In the same way that those who oppose him, not for democracy or justice, but because they want the power and control themselves, won't stop fighting him and his family. 

Very hard for Thailand to move on in that context. There ain't no group moving it on!

In the interest of accuracy, which you invariably claim when discussing Thaksins "overthrow", we really should ensure that we mention that the 2006 coup was staged whilst a constitutionally mandated election process was underway and had the effect of preventing that election.

 

In the interest of accuracy, we should also mention that the 2014 coup had precisely the same effect.

 

I'm sure you will understand, we must be very accurate in these matters, is that not so?

 

Personally, when it comes to "laughable", I find the quote "I am a democratic soldier" always raises a chuckle, but then each to his own...

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by JAG
in the interests of accuracy...

[wakeupplease]

7 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

May I suggest to the new AG to do the easy stuffs first than chasing the tail of someone not in the country. Cases like Suthep's Phuket land scam, police station corruption, orders to CRES to use lethal weapons, Ahbisit "strong Thailand" corruption cases and even his rice quarantee scheme. These people still in Thailand walking the street and feeling untouchable. 

New AG

He is a P Boy implanted in an office that has lost touch with reality and came from a era where brains where not given out.

 

Defaming the Army, not that hard to do, but what was said was said in another country, so does this country think it can rule the world and prosecute anyone who speaks legally in another country. Yes it tries but has no muscle to enforce outside its own borders.

 

Sadly the country is run today by fools who are just repeating what they did to the likes of Pridi back in the 40's. Copycat it worked then and it works today as there are those who believe the bullS>>>.

 

[jonclark]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What orders Eric - we, you too, have no idea of the orders given in 2010.

 

However,  the then PM was more self proclaiming about his war on drugs. Presumably seeing it as a publicity opportunity!

 

As this topic is about Thaksin and the various criminal cases he's avoiding, do try and keep on topic. Whatever anyone else has or hasn't done is irrelevant. And we're all aware of the Thaksin lovers inclination to divert topics they can't defend!

taksin, prayut, yingluck, samak, abhisit;  they have all been equally bad in different ways and lets not beat around the bush here.

 

Noneof the above would loose any sleep over the lost of civilian life if it could extend their time in power.

 

If you honestly think one is better than the other then you are symptomatic of the polarization that dogs Thai politics. 

 

They are equally terrible and once that truth is understood.maybe..just maybe Thalands political progress can mirror that of its prowess in building shopping malls.

[Eric Loh]

10 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What orders Eric - we, you too, have no idea of the orders given in 2010.

 

However,  the then PM was more self proclaiming about his war on drugs. Presumably seeing it as a publicity opportunity!

 

As this topic is about Thaksin and the various criminal cases he's avoiding, do try and keep on topic. Whatever anyone else has or hasn't done is irrelevant. And we're all aware of the Thaksin lovers inclination to divert topics they can't defend!

Strange from you. What order you say. Ahbisit and Suthep were formally charged for authorizing the use of live rounds. Thaksin was charged for the war on drugs deaths after the military set up an investigation commission. 

 

You better stay calm and find out who said that drugs were prevalent during that time and action needed to stop drugs permeating into the society. It was not Thaksin who make that proclamation.

 

You trying to make an argument with your own opinions and unsubstantiated info.

 

 

[LannaGuy]

3 hours ago, gamini said:

I dont support the Thai junta but Taksins criminal cases are very corrupt and action was taken before the Junta came into power. So what is the point of your comment and cartoon. Perhaps it would make more sense if you substituted Taksin for Thai Junta

 

Nah he got it right first time, But you are right cases preceded THIS Junta but all politics nonetheless. Everyone knows Thaksin was Thailand's best Prime Minister and most Thais I know yearn for him to be back. Very unlikely, of course, when the guys with the GUNS control everything.

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, jonclark said:

taksin, prayut, yingluck, samak, abhisit;  they have all been equally bad in different ways and lets not beat around the bush here.

 

Noneof the above would loose any sleep over the lost of civilian life if it could extend their time in power.

 

If you honestly think one is better than the other then you are symptomatic of the polarization that dogs Thai politics. 

 

They are equally terrible and once that truth is understood.maybe..just maybe Thalands political progress can mirror that of its prowess in building shopping malls.

 

Don't disagree - but this topic is about Thaksin. The point isn't how bad is has been/is compared to others and however he relates to others has no bearing on lessening his own charges. By objection is the constant attempt to divert any discussions away from Thaksin that show him in an unfavorable light and the insistence by some posters that he's some whiter than white innocent champion of democracy and honesty.

 

If you read all the posts, you'll see I make that point and that there are no groups trying to drive transformation away from the current "models". And so it continues.

 

 

[LannaGuy]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

Don't disagree - but this topic is about Thaksin. The point isn't how bad is has been/is compared to others and however he relates to others has no bearing on lessening his own charges. By objection is the constant attempt to divert any discussions away from Thaksin that show him in an unfavorable light and the insistence by some posters that he's some whiter than white innocent champion of democracy and honesty.

 

If you read all the posts, you'll see I make that point and that there are no groups trying to drive transformation away from the current "models". And so it continues.

 

 

ah diversion, twist and shake there Baerboxer... I've never seen any post which has said "whiter than white" but we all wait, with baited breath, for you to find one!  We live in the NOW and the NOW is run by the Military who wish to DIVERT everyone from their misdeeds and you, my dear fellow, fall into that trap 'Groundhog Day' style each time. Now let's move on from your obsession?  Thaksin has not been in power for YEARS so let's focus on the bully boys who seized power?   and, yes, of course the Junta will try and DIVERT us from THEM to THAKSIN as they do not want any scrutiny and nor will they allow it.  Your support for such tactics is underwhelming and beneath you.  

[wakeupplease]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Don't disagree - but this topic is about Thaksin. The point isn't how bad is has been/is compared to others and however he relates to others has no bearing on lessening his own charges. By objection is the constant attempt to divert any discussions away from Thaksin that show him in an unfavorable light and the insistence by some posters that he's some whiter than white innocent champion of democracy and honesty.

 

If you read all the posts, you'll see I make that point and that there are no groups trying to drive transformation away from the current "models". And so it continues.

 

 

Do a bit of research look up Pridi and see what happened to him, compare how it happened, look at what was said and how similar the actions of some are to the actions of today and guess what any normal person will have all the answers in a few minutes.

 

Thaksin not A Pridi but close

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, impulse said:

I'll bet, and give decent odds that he'll get an amnesty sooner or later.

 

Not passing judgment on whether that's a good thing, or bad. 

 

Just betting that it will happen- with the caveat that every time it looks like it may happen, there will be a coup to prevent the legally elected officials from passing the amnesty. 

 

And that is definitely a bad thing.  The question is, which is worse?  I have my opinion, but it means boo-diddly-squat.

 

You will not bet one satang. Hot air blowing.

Edited October 7, 2017 by SheungWan

[Baerboxer]

13 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You still quoting those unsubstantiated information of approx 3k extrajudiciary killings? I am disappointed. Thought you are a more knowledgeable and reasonable chap. 

 

"In the first three months of the campaign there were some 2800 extrajudicial killings. In 2007, an official investigation found that more than half of those killed had no connection whatsoever to drugs.1 Apart from the thousands who lost their lives, thousands more were forced into coercive "treatment" for drug addiction."

 

Source: Human Rights Watch.Not Enough Graves: The War on drugs, HIV/AIDS, and Violations of Human Rights, vol. 16, no. 8(c), June 2004

 

"On 20 February, Interior Minister, Chalerm Yubamrung, told parliament that  
 "... For drug dealers if they do not want to die, they had better quit staying on that road... drugs suppression in my time as Interior Minister will follow the approach of [former Prime Minister] Thaksin. If that will lead to 3,000-4,000 deaths of those who break the law, then so be it. That has to be done ... For those of you from the opposition party, I will say you care more about human rights than drug problems in Thailand."  

 

Source: As above.

 

Would you like to quote your sources for alternative figures Eric? 

 

I thought you'd appreciate the quote from Chalerm, especially the somewhat ironic last sentence.

 

I await your alternative and more informed source than HRW.

 

 

 

 

 

[SheungWan]

At least in this thread we are spared one of the cheerleaders' mantras that it isn't all about Thaksin. Today its all hands to the pump!

[LannaGuy]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

"In the first three months of the campaign there were some 2800 extrajudicial killings. In 2007, an official investigation found that more than half of those killed had no connection whatsoever to drugs.1 Apart from the thousands who lost their lives, thousands more were forced into coercive "treatment" for drug addiction."

 

Source: Human Rights Watch.Not Enough Graves: The War on drugs, HIV/AIDS, and Violations of Human Rights, vol. 16, no. 8(c), June 2004

 

"On 20 February, Interior Minister, Chalerm Yubamrung, told parliament that  
 "... For drug dealers if they do not want to die, they had better quit staying on that road... drugs suppression in my time as Interior Minister will follow the approach of [former Prime Minister] Thaksin. If that will lead to 3,000-4,000 deaths of those who break the law, then so be it. That has to be done ... For those of you from the opposition party, I will say you care more about human rights than drug problems in Thailand."  

 

Source: As above.

 

Would you like to quote your sources for alternative figures Eric? 

 

I thought you'd appreciate the quote from Chalerm, especially the somewhat ironic last sentence.

 

I await your alternative and more informed source than HRW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's touching that you have such concern for drug dealers. Why not write to Duterte while you're at it? 

 

Hey I have a new slogan for you:

 

'Drug Dealers Lives Matter'

[Baerboxer]

25 minutes ago, JAG said:

In the interest of accuracy, which you invariably claim when discussing Thaksins "overthrow", we really should ensure that we mention that the 2006 coup was staged whilst a constitutionally mandated election process was underway and had the effect of preventing that election.

 

In the interest of accuracy, we should also mention that the 2014 coup had precisely the same effect.

 

I'm sure you will understand, we must be very accurate in these matters, is that not so?

 

Personally, when it comes to "laughable", I find the quote "I am a democratic soldier" always raises a chuckle, but then each to his own...

 

 

Indeed let's be accurate. The April 2006 elections were declared undemocratic and invalidated. Thaksin resigned the position of caretaker PM and a replacement was appointed. He then changed his mind and took the job back, illegally, with no democracy prior to the replacement election scheduled for October. He was on his way to the US to address the UN and present himself as Thailand's PM. Which he wasn't. 

 

Presumably you add 2014 as you want to re-direct the discussion? Yingluck didn't resign from the caretaker role, she was removed by a court. And she didn't try and seize it back.

 

So let's be accurate, and admit that Thaksin wasn't the legal PM or caretaker PM at the time of the 2006 coup shall we?

 

"Laughable' - indeed, so much to laugh at here. Like the quote "I've done nothing wrong" which almost seems a family motto!

[Baerboxer]

11 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

 

It's touching that you have such concern for drug dealers. Why not write to Duterte while you're at it? 

 

Hey I have a new slogan for you:

 

'Drug Dealers Lives Matter'

 

So how many of the 2-3k murdered in the drugs on war were actually drug dealers?

 

Quite worrying that you'd accept extra judicial killing if necessary rather than condemn Thaksin.

 

Any attempt to divert away damning topics eh?

[wakeupplease]

3 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

 

It's touching that you have such concern for drug dealers. Why not write to Duterte while you're at it? 

 

Hey I have a new slogan for you:

 

'Drug Dealers Lives Matter'

Unfortunately some on here think that is true.

 

Look up K Street Gang in Washington and Vince Hill 1997 how this drug dealer murdered 13 people and terrorise the area for years and what was he selling WEED, marijuana, pot, grass or the stuff many on here say they like.

 

So its ok to murder 13 people and wreck countless other lives as a drug dealer but as a PM not, full credit to those who shoot down the druggies, its a fitting end for them.

 

K Street Gang are banged up for life, me I would have just have used the electric chair. Maybe Thaksin was right, but would love to hear how some would deal with it anyhow.

[JAG]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Indeed let's be accurate. The April 2006 elections were declared undemocratic and invalidated. Thaksin resigned the position of caretaker PM and a replacement was appointed. He then changed his mind and took the job back, illegally, with no democracy prior to the replacement election scheduled for October. He was on his way to the US to address the UN and present himself as Thailand's PM. Which he wasn't. 

 

Presumably you add 2014 as you want to re-direct the discussion? Yingluck didn't resign from the caretaker role, she was removed by a court. And she didn't try and seize it back.

 

So let's be accurate, and admit that Thaksin wasn't the legal PM or caretaker PM at the time of the 2006 coup shall we?

 

"Laughable' - indeed, so much to laugh at here. Like the quote "I've done nothing wrong" which almost seems a family motto!

None of which changes the fact that both coups prevented constitutional elections.

 

A simple fact isn't it, but perhaps it is overlooked in the drive for accuracy.

[Baerboxer]

29 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Strange from you. What order you say. Ahbisit and Suthep were formally charged for authorizing the use of live rounds. Thaksin was charged for the war on drugs deaths after the military set up an investigation commission. 

 

You better stay calm and find out who said that drugs were prevalent during that time and action needed to stop drugs permeating into the society. It was not Thaksin who make that proclamation.

 

You trying to make an argument with your own opinions and unsubstantiated info.

 

 

 

See my later post in response to another of yours for HRW quotes and references.

 

I would agree that action against illegal drugs need to be taken. That doesn't mean I support, or ever will, extra judicial killing,  do you?

 

Because, according to HRW, a great many murdered weren't involved in drugs.

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

None of which changes the fact that both coups prevented constitutional elections.

 

A simple fact isn't it, but perhaps it is overlooked in the drive for accuracy.

 

No one said that they did. But this topic is about that, is it?

 

So you do agree, Thakin was illegally misrepresenting himself at the time of the 2006 coup?

 

 

[Baerboxer]

34 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

 

Nah he got it right first time, But you are right cases preceded THIS Junta but all politics nonetheless. Everyone knows Thaksin was Thailand's best Prime Minister and most Thais I know yearn for him to be back. Very unlikely, of course, when the guys with the GUNS control everything.

 

Doesn't say much for the others, if the best is a convicted criminal with a long list of outstanding cases that might be resurrected!

[Eric Loh]

18 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

"In the first three months of the campaign there were some 2800 extrajudicial killings. In 2007, an official investigation found that more than half of those killed had no connection whatsoever to drugs.1 Apart from the thousands who lost their lives, thousands more were forced into coercive "treatment" for drug addiction."

 

Source: Human Rights Watch.Not Enough Graves: The War on drugs, HIV/AIDS, and Violations of Human Rights, vol. 16, no. 8(c), June 2004

 

"On 20 February, Interior Minister, Chalerm Yubamrung, told parliament that  
 "... For drug dealers if they do not want to die, they had better quit staying on that road... drugs suppression in my time as Interior Minister will follow the approach of [former Prime Minister] Thaksin. If that will lead to 3,000-4,000 deaths of those who break the law, then so be it. That has to be done ... For those of you from the opposition party, I will say you care more about human rights than drug problems in Thailand."  

 

Source: As above.

 

Would you like to quote your sources for alternative figures Eric? 

 

I thought you'd appreciate the quote from Chalerm, especially the somewhat ironic last sentence.

 

I await your alternative and more informed source than HRW.

 

 

 

 

 

Hate to break this to you. The HRW numbers were brought into question when they could not substantiate with police reports. They mentioned that the number was from AFP and when AFP was asked, they said it was from HRW. I thought you would have researched that with your interests in this case. 

 

It it was a RTP Pol Gen Sant that eventually told BBC that 72 died and the number included other homicides. Fact is that there are no substantiated proof of extra judiciary killings and reason why until now after few commissions could not charge Thaksin.

[Baerboxer]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

Hate to break this to you. The HRW numbers were brought into question when they could not substantiate with police reports. They mentioned that the number was from AFP and when AFP was asked, they said it was from HRW. I thought you would have researched that with your interests in this case. 

 

It it was a RTP Pol Gen Sant that eventually told BBC that 72 died and the number included other homicides. Fact is that there are no substantiated proof of extra judiciary killings and reason why until now after few commissions could not charge Thaksin.

 

Let's get this right then Eric.

 

The police, who actually did the killings, investigated themselves, and you believe their police reports would've been credible. Not only that but this is the famous BiB!

 

And if was "only 72" then you think that makes it all o k? Wonder how many, if any, were involved in the drug trade.(Victims not shooters!).

 

Fact is, you believe what you want too, as long as it supports Thaksin. 

[coulson]

All the worms coming out of the woodwork now the coast is clear. Sycophant State of Thailand

[Baerboxer]

37 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

ah diversion, twist and shake there Baerboxer... I've never seen any post which has said "whiter than white" but we all wait, with baited breath, for you to find one!  We live in the NOW and the NOW is run by the Military who wish to DIVERT everyone from their misdeeds and you, my dear fellow, fall into that trap 'Groundhog Day' style each time. Now let's move on from your obsession?  Thaksin has not been in power for YEARS so let's focus on the bully boys who seized power?   and, yes, of course the Junta will try and DIVERT us from THEM to THAKSIN as they do not want any scrutiny and nor will they allow it.  Your support for such tactics is underwhelming and beneath you.  

 

Do you think this topic, presuming you read the OP, isn't actually about Thaksin and his criminal cases then? 

 

Seems you have comprehension issues as well as not understanding what figures of speech are in the English language.

 

But any attempt to divert from the reality of what this topic is about eh? 

 

Trying to continually change any topic about Thaksin or his little sister into one about the Junta! Pathetic and very obvious.

 

So come get on topic. Do you think he's totally innocent in all these cases?

 

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

43 minutes ago, wakeupplease said:

Do a bit of research look up Pridi and see what happened to him, compare how it happened, look at what was said and how similar the actions of some are to the actions of today and guess what any normal person will have all the answers in a few minutes.

 

Thaksin not A Pridi but close

 

Sorry but I don't think Thaksin is remotely close to Pridi.