Blacklist? Urgent and desperate need to know if I can cruise to Phuket without disembarking

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I think OP ought to have got the message. It's her call now.  Might consider the below-quoted idea, it's brilliant! Hope all her family members are carrying mobile phones. 

 

It is an option that would avoid any possible repercussions, however, it could be costly and also it would mean missing out on a part of the cruise already paid for.

I would be talking to the purser and perhaps get the Master to contact the shipping agents in Phuket, who could make advance inquiries of the Thai Authorities as to the position they will take, then go from there.

It may well be that they will accept just staying onboard.

[Aditi Sharma]

5 minutes ago, Mattd said:

It is an option that would avoid any possible repercussions, however, it could be costly and also it would mean missing out on a part of the cruise already paid for.

I would be talking to the purser and perhaps get the Master to contact the shipping agents in Phuket, who could make advance inquiries of the Thai Authorities as to the position they will take, then go from there.

It may well be that they will accept just staying onboard.

She might not be able to get hold of the purser and the master because it may not have been decided yet who  is going to sail...just thinking out loud.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
edit

[Aditi Sharma]

4 minutes ago, Mattd said:

It is an option that would avoid any possible repercussions, however, it could be costly and also it would mean missing out on a part of the cruise already paid for.

I would be talking to the purser and perhaps get the Master to contact the shipping agents in Phuket, who could make advance inquiries of the Thai Authorities as to the position they will take, then go from there.

It may well be that they will accept just staying onboard.

She might find it more affordable not to take a chance, I agree with ya.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
edit

[Mattd]

16 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

So this differs to a person in transit at a foreign airport?

How?

The car example has entered Tha-Land.

Accepted the car has entered via a land border, the point being that the ship has entered Thailand by being in port, or more correctly so, by being within the 12 NM zone.

Once that entry is made, then the regulations of Thailand prevail in terms of immigration etc. and a passenger or crew could be arrested if they were wanted by the authorities for whatever reason.

 

I admit am not very familiar with Phuket and cruise ships, I do believe the bigger ones ferry passengers in via smaller boats?

 

Laem Chabang (LCB) I am very familiar with and the difference between a transiting plane and ship is plain to see there, a passenger in transit on a plane cannot physically get past the border controls without passing immigration, whereas once a vessel is cleared in to LCB, then passengers are free to go and come, there are zero checks of passports or baggage etc. once the vessel berths, so even if a passenger said they wanted to stay onboard, there is really very little stopping them from getting off if they so wished.

 

Which is why I asked if anybody physically checked your passport (apart from immigration officers the night before arriving in to port) when you got off the ship and when you got back on again?

 

The very fact that immigration board the vessel before arriving in to port does tell you that the clearance is already done, as I said before, in the case of a cruise ship, it has to be all done, otherwise it would simply take too long to do upon arrival, these things rarely stay more than 24 hours at the most, imagine 5,000 people trying to clear immigration at once in a relatively small port 

 

In this case, they may well be satisfied with her staying onboard, no way of knowing unless they try to check beforehand, the agents can do this, of that I am sure.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Mattd

[Aditi Sharma]

16 minutes ago, Mattd said:

1. Which is why I asked if anybody physically checked your passport (apart from immigration officers the night before arriving in to port) when you got off the ship and when you got back on again?

 

2.The very fact that immigration board the vessel before arriving in to port does tell you that the clearance is already done, 

1. When do you mean?

2. Why would they board the vessel?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[harleyclarkey]

Nice one to all who replied!?

This topic and the helpful replies from the members is what TV should be all about. Advice and a helping hand.

 

Not the shouts and insults from some nasty members. 

[Mattd]

8 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

1. When do you mean?

2. Why would they board the vessel?

 

Thanks!

 

 

1. When getting off the cruise ship in Phuket, so before boarding the bus for a tour, getting in a taxi etc. at the point of entry in to Thailand,

2. They have to get on to a cruise ship before she arrives in to port, to stamp all of the passengers (and crew) passports prior to them getting off, it would be one big logistical nightmare if they didn't!

Think of over 10 A380's landing in to a small airport at exactly the same time and only 3 or 4 immigration desks open and those same A380's take off at exactly the same time in 12 odd hours time, would be just enough time to get stamped in and out again!

Edited October 13, 2017 by Mattd

[Aditi Sharma]

7 minutes ago, Mattd said:

1. When getting off the cruise ship in Phuket, so before boarding the bus for a tour, getting in a taxi etc. at the point of entry in to Thailand,

2. They have to get on to a cruise ship before she arrives in to port, to stamp all of the passengers (and crew) passports prior to them getting off, it would be one big logistical nightmare if they didn't!

Think of over 10 A380's landing in to a small airport at exactly the same time and only 3 or 4 immigration desks open and those same A380's take off at exactly the same time in 12 odd hours time, would be just enough time to get stamped in and out again!

 

It can equally be a nightmare on board unless they have a way of ordering all of the passengers in one place. 

[impulse]

11 minutes ago, harleyclarkey said:

Nice one to all who replied!?

This topic and the helpful replies from the members is what TV should be all about. Advice and a helping hand.

 

Not the shouts and insults from some nasty members. 

 

Agreed, but I hope ya didn't just jinx it...  Ya did knock on wood, right?

 

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure about that. The stamps and forms do not confirm that.

 

Your passports may be linked if you try to enter the country.

I don't think you would be forced to leave the boat. The only way they might do that would be if you were wanted for a crime committed here or elsewhere.

What they do at airports is deny you entry and send you to detention at the airport until you have a flight out of the country arranged and then depart the country.

I was trying to post this earlier but my internet is acting the goat so most of this has been answered already. Mattd has right handle on this.

 

Since the vessel is already in Thai waters before tying up in any port, Thai Immigration will process all the passports on the vessel manifest through their system and it is highly likely that the OP will be flagged. The manifest is made available several days before actually entering Thai waters so chances are they will be waiting. I do not see any value in having cruise company, Captains or anyone asking their Phuket agents for 'advice' from Thai Immigration.

 

It's nice to think that the Phuket Immigration will happily trust that the OP has no intention of getting off and leave it at that. But based on the OP's advice of a similar instance about 4 years ago, they will probably be bound by procedures and have the OP removed from the vessel to be detained at their 'jail' for the duration of the short port call but possibly allowed to re-board prior to departure as the onward sail itinerary indicates. The earlier, similar incident also mentions the passengers detention was authorized by "claiming there is no return ticket available" but this doesn't clarify if that cruise was terminating in Phuket and all pax disembarking for onward or repatriation travel by air. This is an unlikely scenario as passengers knowing they are getting off at the cruise terminus would normally have an onward air ticket unless they were willing to take a chance or unaware of their actual banned status and planned a few post-cruise days in Thailand.

 

If the OP is unable to cancel the trip, they may consider obtaining a one-way outward flight reservation for that same evening. If Immigration do get pedantic and insist on detention, it may be much shorter if one shows they have prepared and have a ticket already. Hopefully they won't insist it has to be to the OP's home country which I understand may be the norm when once is released from longer-term stays at IDC in Bangkok for home repatriation..

 

If it is a multi-stop cruise, can the OP opt to disembark at the last port before Phuket and re-board at the first port call afterwards? May cost extra and leave the family on their own for a few days but avoid the whole drama. Personally, despite the family coming along, it is ultimately a 'reward' cruise with minimal cost implications so I would just forget about the whole cruise, see if refunds can be clawed back and move on. This uncertainty preying on ones' mind pre- Phuket won't make for a happy, relaxing cruise IMHO.

[Mattd]

16 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

 

It can equally be a nightmare on board unless they have a way of ordering all of the passengers in one place. 

The passengers won't even see an immigration officer, it will be done whilst they sleep.

[Evilbaz]

12 minutes ago, Mattd said:

1. When getting off the cruise ship in Phuket, so before boarding the bus for a tour, getting in a taxi etc. at the point of entry in to Thailand,

2. They have to get on to a cruise ship before she arrives in to port, to stamp all of the passengers (and crew) passports prior to them getting off, it would be one big logistical nightmare if they didn't!

Think of over 10 A380's landing in to a small airport at exactly the same time and only 3 or 4 immigration desks open and those same A380's take off at exactly the same time in 12 odd hours time, would be just enough time to get stamped in and out again!

 

This is my actual experience.

Your passport is not stamped to allow entry into that port unless you apply to do so onboard.

To exit the ship you need a stamped passport and a Ship's exit/entry card.

Both are checked on entry and exit and your passport is surrendered for a Thai exit stamp.

They are meticulous on who is allowed on or off.

 

Befriend the Purser early!

They wont accept tips but love compliments and particularly submitted favourable Good Job forms.

[Mattd]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

I do not see any value in having cruise company, Captains or anyone asking their Phuket agents for 'advice' from Thai Immigration.

There are pluses and negatives to this, I'm not so sure that immigration would give their advice, so much as they could confirm that the OP comes up on the blacklist and what their official line would be in that case, they could well be OK with the OP staying on board, the problem is how to guarantee that.

Worse case is they might detail the OP and then release her just prior to the vessel departing, I do not think they would deport via air in this instance, particularly as the OP isn't really trying to enter Thailand.

For sure, if she is showing up on a blacklist this will be known well before the vessel arrives.

[MyFriend You]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The only thing I see on what you posted is a denial of entry under section 12 (7) of the immigration act.

Since you can stay aboard the ship I can see no reason for you having a problem. You might even want to try entering the country. All they can do is deny entry and then you would be allowed to return to the ship.

or taken to immigration jail for trying t sneak into Thailand - 

[007 RED]

1 hour ago, Mattd said:

I've worked and still do, in International Shipping for over 30 years and I absolutely guarantee this is not rubbish, the vessel will almost certainly be pre-cleared in to the port, the logistics of not doing this are very clear to see, the physical stamping of the passports is only a SMALL part of a vessel's inward and outward clearance, there is a lot more to it than just that.

As I have stated, the ship's agents will have submitted all of the certification and documentation to the port authority in advance of the vessel arriving in to port, there are bunch of IMO FAL forms to send in, one of these is a passenger list, which has details of the passengers, including full name, nationality passport number and date and place of of birth, this is what will be used to pre-clear the folks onboard prior to the physical boarding of immigration at latest the night before the arrival.

http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Facilitation/FormsCertificates/Pages/Default.aspx

 

The vessel may be foreign flagged, but it can be boarded by the Thai authorities for whatever reason they like, port state control inspection, customs inspection etc. etc. and is not a sanctuary for illegals.

 

Liken it to a foreign registered car that was in Thailand!

 

Mattd… I agree with you that Thai immigration have the power to board and inspect any vessel once it has entered the Kingdom, as per the Immigration Act B.E.2522 Section 24.

 

I would also agree with you that the owner, or person in charge, of the vessel is required by immigration to submit a list of names and details of all passengers and crew prior to the vessels arrival.  Again, this fact is clearly stated in the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 Section 26.

 

Although the vessel owner/person in charge is required to submit a list of all passengers/crew, that list will also indicate those passengers who are intending to disembark.   As far as I’m aware this information is supplied electronically to the Thai Authorities approximately 24 hours before arrival as most modern cruise ships do have satellite communications systems.

 

The requirement of a list of passengers/crew is identical to that required of the airlines transporting passengers to Thailand (APIS).

 

However, I would concur with a number of other poster who have indicated that only passengers who have chosen to disembark the vessel will have their passports examined and stamped prior to disembarkation.  Those who do not disembark do not have their passport stamped – why would they when they have not been granted entry.  This has certainly been my experience on the cruises that my wife and I have taken during the past 10 years.

 

The same basic principles apply to a flight arriving at BKK on route to say Australia.  Some passengers will disembark because BKK is their destination and they will pass through passport control in order to enter the Kingdom.  Others whose destination is Australia will normally have to disembark and pass through the transit facility before re-joining their flight.  Those passengers are not subject to any passport inspection my Thai Authorities.

 

I like the idea of immigration officers being on board the vessel from its port of departure so that they can expedite  passengers clearance prior to arrival… Does that happen on flights as well?  I can just imagine the IO all volunteering for that job  .

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

 

This is my actual experience.

Your passport is not stamped to allow entry into that port unless you apply to do so onboard.

To exit the ship you need a stamped passport and a Ship's exit/entry card.

Both are checked on entry and exit and your passport is surrendered for a Thai exit stamp.

They are meticulous on who is allowed on or off.

 

Befriend the Purser early!

They wont accept tips but love compliments and particularly submitted favourable Good Job forms.

Thanks, this does make some sense, it must differ by cruise line, some good friends arrived in to LCB from Southampton on Arcadia and apart from submitting their passports before arriving, then no other passport checks were made, they were given an exit card at the same time as their passport and that is all they showed at the gangway to get off, mind you in their case, they were terminating here, as this was where they lived at that time.

I picked them up from the port and was quite shocked with the lack of security etc. both from the port and the ship, given the ISPS rulkes that are supposed to be in place.

 

What doesn't change though is the fact that the details of ALL persons onboard will have been sent to the Port Authority, who will then pass to immigration, so any blacklists etc. etc. will be picked up then.

 

On a smaller scale, I managed a fleet of diving and ROV support vessels (Thai owned, foreign flagged) coming and going in to ports throughout Thailand, once the guys were stamped in, then the passports were never checked once after that.

 

[Golden Triangle]

Circles, I understand your trepidation in all of this and you have been given some good advice by many people, I really think you should have asked this question a week or 2 ago, if you get this message in time perhaps you could call one of the Embassies in the UK and ask them to check your current status, at least that way you could make an informed decision. Personally I would take the holiday as I know that many 'Company Rewards' do not carry a cash value.

 

I really hope that you get to enjoy your holiday with your family, 

[Mattd]

20 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

However, I would concur with a number of other poster who have indicated that only passengers who have chosen to disembark the vessel will have their passports examined and stamped prior to disembarkation.  Those who do not disembark do not have their passport stamped – why would they when they have not been granted entry.  This has certainly been my experience on the cruises that my wife and I have taken during the past 10 years.

100% agree, I am not saying her passport will be submitted to disembark, what I am saying is that her blacklisting will come up prior to arrival and like APIS it would say no can get off, the issue is more of one of security, unlike an airport, ships and ports are relatively easy to get off and through and the authorities know this, which may or may not be a problem for the OP.

I do think that on the balance of probabilities all will be fine and immigration will just insist she stays onboard.

 

I for one will be very interested to know how this pans out.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Mattd

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

Circles, I understand your trepidation in all of this and you have been given some good advice by many people, I really think you should have asked this question a week or 2 ago, if you get this message in time perhaps you could call one of the Embassies in the UK and ask them to check your current status, at least that way you could make an informed decision. Personally I would take the holiday as I know that many 'Company Rewards' do not carry a cash value.

 

There is only one embassy in the UK that is in London and they would be of no help because they would not take the time to check with immigration about the blacklisting. They do not have direct access to immigrations records.

If people would read his reply to one of my posts on page one he is already in the process of getting his records checked.

[harleyclarkey]

49 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Agreed, but I hope ya didn't just jinx it...  Ya did knock on wood, right?

 

Indeed.....my head is now sore! LOL. ?

[Golden Triangle]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

There is only one embassy in the UK that is in London and they would be of no help because they would not take the time to check with immigration about the blacklisting. They do not have direct access to immigrations records.

If people would read his reply to one of my posts on page one he is already in the process of getting his records checked.

I did read that UJ, sorry that was 4 pages previously, only trying to help the poor lady, I suppose that also means that any Thai Consulates would also be a no go. Shame really.

[Mattd]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

If people would read his reply to one of my posts on page one he is already in the process of getting his records checked.

I saw this, it is certainly one way of finding out the blacklisted side, what it won't tell is what the authorities will do if she is onboard and stays onboard whilst in port, that part is unknown, I will be amazed if they do not have a regulation in place for these instances, I might even try contacting a mate at a ship agency and ask his advice, can't be the first time this has come up and it has tweeked my interest now!!

[007 RED]

14 minutes ago, Mattd said:

100% agree, I am not saying her passport will be submitted to disembark, what I am saying is that her blacklisting will come up prior to arrival and like APIS it would say no can get off, the issue is more of one of security, unlike an airport, ships and ports are relatively easy to get off and through and the authorities know this, which may or may not be a problem for the OP.

I do think that on the basis of probabilities all will be fine and immigration will just insist she stays onboard.

 

I for one will be very interested to know how this pans out.

Although it is possible that immigration might pick up on a ban 12 years ago, I very much doubt that they will board the vessel and ‘drag’ the OP off the ship if he/she has elected not to disembark.  There would be no point.

 

As for security, again according to the Immigration Act B.E.2422  Section 27(1) the owner/person in charge is responsible for ensuring that no one leaves the vessel without permission from a ‘competent official’ (read immigration officer) .  There are very substantial penalties if there is a breach of these regulations.

[JackThompson]

A case recently involved a fellow with a single re-entry permit on his retirement extension-of-stay.  His cruise passed through a Thai port-of-call, but he purposely did not disembark.  His re-entry permit was used, regardless, and when returning to Thailand later, discovered his extension had become null and void. 

 

If the ship is in Thai waters, it is possible they consider all persons on-board to have "entered Thailand" - regardless of their intention to leave the ship. 

 

Crossing fingers that his check for blacklisting is negative, so he doesn't have to worry/speculate on what could/might happen.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

I did read that UJ, sorry that was 4 pages previously, only trying to help the poor lady, I suppose that also means that any Thai Consulates would also be a no go. Shame really.

It would be the same for official Thai consulates. Even more so for honorary Thai consulates like those in the UK. 

[Mattd]

4 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Although it is possible that immigration might pick up on a ban 12 years ago, I very much doubt that they will board the vessel and ‘drag’ the OP off the ship if he/she has elected not to disembark.  There would be no point.

 

As for security, again according to the Immigration Act B.E.2422  Section 27(1) the owner/person in charge is responsible for ensuring that no one leaves the vessel without permission from a ‘competent official’ (read immigration officer) .  There are very substantial penalties if there is a breach of these regulations.

I agree there would be no point, trouble is, logic doesn't prevail here at times, as we are very aware of!

 

Agreed it is the vessel operator that is responsible, trouble is ports have more holes in them than a colander, especially if the disembarkation is via ferry boat, it is, I feel, going to somewhat depend on whether the blacklist does come out and if the Thai authorities get some crazy notion that this is a backdoor entry attempt by the OP.

[realenglish1]

You will just be rejected from coming on shore in Thailand

They will not board the ship

[coconuthead]

it will certainly make the cruise exciting.

 

you might be over-thinking it......there is a tendency to think the absolute worst in cases like this. 

[Aditi Sharma]

53 minutes ago, coconuthead said:

it will certainly make the cruise exciting.

 

you might be over-thinking it......there is a tendency to think the absolute worst in cases like this. 

Well she is not doing the cruise alone. There is a tendency to overthink because the absolute worst can befall one in cases like this. 

[thedemon]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It would be the same for official Thai consulates. Even more so for honorary Thai consulates like those in the UK. 

 

True and even more so since the op's passport is Singaporean.