Chiang Mai Burning Season Pullution Question

[mirko]

Hi Guys,

I am thinking of moving to Chiang Mai and one thing that is of a concern to us is the rice fields burning season pollution.

I was wondering if any of you would know if this is a problem only in down town Chiang Mai where there is a lot of smog from the cars that gets trapped under the cloud of rice burning smoke, or is it also the case in the surrounding areas.

My hope is that... Maybe it wouldn't be as bad in the outskirts such as San Sai, Doi Saket, maybe even Lamphun or similar?

Cheers!

Mirko

Edited October 25, 2017 by mirko

[canopy]

Quick recap: unhealthy air blankets northern Thailand for around half the year. It is caused by people burning everything they can when the weather is dry which is roughly the October-April time frame. Some days/months are worse than others. Visibility can become extremely limited due to smoke. People go to hospitals for respiratory problems in large numbers. On the worst days the government hands out gas masks and tells people to stay inside with doors and windows closed and not to exercise. It is definitely something that changes a lot of expats minds about living there. I don't know of anywhere in northern Thailand that is immune; doctors say it is a health issue that impacts 100% of the population there.

 

This year's burning season may be ramping up now. A few days have gone by without rain and the fire bugs are all out eagerly burning. Visibility is worsening and the air quality level is starting to dip into unhealthy levels. There could be little to no good air until april of next year. Looking at how little has been done and how little the population cares about this self inflicted issue, it is presumed to remain indefinitely into the future with the people just continuing to burn and ignore it.

 

To give some indication of how seriously people see this issue, there are over 60 pages discussing this issue in this topic alone: Smoke, Smog, Dust 2016-2017 Chiang Mai.

 

[Rimmer]

Moved to Chiang Mai Forum

[Dmaxdan]

It has never been to much of a problem down Sanpatong way unless someone starts burning in the field opposite our house.

[jak2002003]

I have lived out in the sticks for 10 years in various locations in the San Sai area.

 

Also go into the city a few days a week.

 

When I first moved here the burning season (dry season) has disgusting air quality... sometimes it was so bad we were all constantly coughing, the air looked grey and misty and it stank of burning in the countryside, and car fumes in the city.  It would make my eyes water and itch too.

 

However, over the years the air pollution seems to have been getting much better.  The last 3 years I have hardly noticed any serious air pollution, even in the city.  The air always goes a bit hazy, but its kind of higher up, and not ground level like it used to be.

 

The last few years also the duration of the burning seems to have reduced... and only has a few bad weeks, rather than endless months of it.

 

I am sure scientists will collect data from the air particles and say its too high, but also sure if they looks at the air 10 years ago and now they would see it has improved.

 

Come to Chiang Mai and see for yourself.  You can always move away again.  The cool season here is heaven... can be soo cool you have to wear a scarf and coat, which is a novelty.  But the hot dry season can sometimes feel too much... the heat is worse than the pollution.

 

 

[FolkGuitar]

I live downtown. Each year I read these threads about burning season and wonder if I'm in a different country. Yes, there is air pollution. And yes, I do wear an N95 mask.... but only for about a week or so. The rest of the time it just isn't bad enough to bother me. I am a very active person, walk daily, and the pollution, while looking bad at times, just doesn't bother me. For the one or two weeks that it actually IS bad, I wear the mask. That's it. I have no incentive to leave the area, nor even reduce my outdoor activities. Other folks leave for half a year. Your mileage may vary.

[mduras01]

As others have said, only way to know is to try it. Everyone’s body is different and reacts differently. Impossible to tell how or even when it will start affecting you. Only started bothering me my third year here. Overall feeling of malaise.


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[lannarebirth]

Two months of the year the air is hazy. Two weeks of the year the air is unhealthful, particularly for people who are hyper sensitive to airborne particles. 

[luther]

The original poster's head must be spinning with all the contrary replies.

 

The air pollution in Chiang Mai is horrible. The burning starts for real in December. By late February or early March it is time to stop doing real physical work outside. I ride a bike 90 minutes a day through the rice fields 7 days a week. I give it up in late February. The air does not get better until it rains in late April or May. The readings are often between 150 and 200. Schools cancel recess for weeks at a time. I live 12 km outside of the city. When I leave my village the back way, I connect with the third ring road, 121. In March when I look to the right towards the intersection of 121 and 107, I often cannot see the traffic light 200 meters away. The mountains which are clearly visible 9 months out of the years, disappear completely for weeks.

[Dante99]

Some years are significantly better than others.

 

15 km out of town and still get some bad days

Edited October 26, 2017 by Dante99

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I won't comment on how bad it is because as you can see above that's opinion based.  What I can say is that if you plan a holiday strategically in March then you avoid most of it.

 

And I can definitely say that there is almost no difference at all between downtown and far far out of town. In fact the further North out of town you go, the worse it gets.   How do I know this:  from air quality measuring station data in town versus in the suburbs versus all the way out in Chiang Dao, Chiang Rai and Mae Hong Son, as well as visual observation both in person and online via cams that record the view (or lack thereof)

 

It's (almost) nothing to do with pollution from city sources, very nearly all of it is from forest fires and -especially- agricultural burning of fields. In fact this year the inner city station showed better values than the one out in Mae Rim.

 

The last couple years have seen a burning ban that's being enforced better and better.  The last couple years also have been better than average looking at the last 20 years for which there is data.   It's too early to say if the burning ban is truly the reason for the improvement, as a lot of the haze comes into Thailand from neighboring countries. The trend definitely looks encouraging though, but a lot more needs to be done in the region.

Edited October 26, 2017 by WinnieTheKhwai

[sanemax]

Its hardly noticeable these days .

It was terrible a few years ago . 

But it improves year by year ,as the burning ban takes effect

Most of the smoke pollution wafts in from Burms

[amexpat]

15 minutes ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

I won't comment on how bad it is because as you can see above that's opinion based.

 

A PM<10 reading of 200 is not an opinion.  Visibility less than 500 meters is not an opinion. People don't check into hospitals because of their opinions. 

 

 

[Mahseer]

Personally I didn't care for the air quality in town whatever the reading for the past 2 years from early March through to mid May. If memory serves end of April air quality usd to improve but certainly the last 2 years it wasn't until mid May.

 

Just another opinion and this ones mine.

[chingmai331]

For up to date info on air quality

 

http://aqicn.org/city/chiang-mai/

[canopy]

One thing everyone should be able to notice is the air quality has visually diminished in this last week of October as the rains fade away. If you look up the sky is blue. If you look out toward the horizons it is now a smoggy discoloration all around. Visibility is less than before through this haze. I was taught that if you can see the air you are breathing then you have problems. This is the beginning. It's going to get a whole lot worse.

 

[Ricardo]

My own view is that the problem is worst in March & April, so I always plan a holiday-trip away for then, and that the source of the smoke is also burning-off of undergrowth in the hills/mountains/forests. 

 

As my cheap-flight to Bangkok crosses over the mountains South of here, you see many columns of smoke, rising from the ground.  Thick-smoke can sometimes disrupt flights landing in Chiang Mai, especially early-morning.

 

A friend who lives a couple-of-miles away, on the edge of the national-forest, tells me that the air in our village is much better, especially after-dusk when the cooling-air brings thick smoke down to his village. Where lung-cancer is a major health-problem.

 

The brown-coal to electicity-plant down near Lampang is also very polluting.

 

It's even worse IME up towards Fang & Chiang Rai, but often reaches levels well-above WHO safe-levels, at my son's school (which measures & publishes pollution-levels daily) near Mae-Rim.

 

That said, I still love Chiang Mai for 10-months of the year !

[mrmillersr]

Hate to break the bad news but the air in Chiang Mai is actually unhealthy year round so don't believe the nonsense of all you have to worry about is a couple of weeks or so. 

 

The WHO considers a PM 2.5 level of 10 or under to be safe.  A major study was done showing the long term effects of elevated PM 2.5 levels on health and it was found that for every increase in 5 points over a reading of 10,   death from all causes increased by 7%. 

 

So let's see right now how we are doing.  With all the rain we have been having recently and with no major burning going on you would think PM 2.5 levels would be very low at this time.  Not so.  Look at the screen shot I just took of the readings at one of the locations in Chiang Mai that provides detailed numbers.  This was for yesterday between midnight and 8:00 PM.  What you will see are hourly readings two and even three times over what is reported as being safe.

 

This year, February through May have been months with PM 2.5 levels averaging over 20 with March being the worst averaging over 50.  You will not find a single month where the average readings fall into the 10 or below category.  In fact, the total hours where PM 2.5 will have hourly readings exceeding 20 (twice the WHO PM 2.5 number for safe air) will be well in excess of 3000 hours this year. 

 

This is a problem that is not going away.  While a number of posters will tell you things are getting better they are not.  All they are doing is extending the time period from the worst burning that used to be from February to the end of March, to where it is now from January through May.  Even after that, the air quality never gets to where you can call it healthy based on actual PM 2.5 readings you can find online. 

 

It's your health so you will have to decide on this but based on the facts, I would consider another location.  You should at least do some more research and not believe anyone's take on this especially if they live in Chiang Mai and for whatever reason are unwilling or unable to move.  Many of these people will come out and say they have no problems with the air pollution just like the chain smoker who denies cigarettes are affecting their health.  They will also attack the messenger for telling you this but if you have common sense you will see what is the truth and what is not.  Good luck to you.

[chingmai331]

Where are  you living now mr miller sr ??  If you say Yachats, i'd say you do as you preach.  If not then welcome to the vastly overpopulated and overdriven asia.

[mirko]

Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for all the replies!

What I gather from all of the comments combined is that the air quality is pretty poor in Chiang Mai and surrounding areas. Livable, but poor and mostly during the peak months of dry season and rice burning.

One gentleman suggested that even schools stop during the peak times.

I would definitely consider taking a 2 month vacation to south during these peak times, but my problem is that my kids would have to be absent from school.

Does anyone have any experience with kids being absent from Chiang Mai schools during these months?

Thanks again!

Mirko

[JaseTheBass]

We could smell burning from some of the local retards on Friday night. We're in Nimman.

My wife has had a cough for about a year now and I have a good clear-out every morning in the shower. Never had these problems when we lived in Isaan as the pollution doesn't hang around so much there.

Sent from my R2D2 droid using my C3P0 manservant

[canopy]

Air has already become filthy and we are only in October. The AQI has shot over 100 on the scale in a lot of places meaning it is over twice as bad as air considered to be of good quality and will keep climbing. Visibility is becoming very limited due to the pollution. I can't remember it getting this bad this fast before. This could be a very bad year.

 

[dcnx]

The air quality in the north is pretty poor all year with the burn season making it very unhealthy. You get a few good months but the rest of the year ranges from bad to horrible.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On 10/27/2017 at 10:00 AM, mrmillersr said:

Hate to break the bad news but the air in Chiang Mai is actually unhealthy year round so don't believe the nonsense of all you have to worry about is a couple of weeks or so. 

 

The WHO considers a PM 2.5 level of 10 or under to be safe.  A major study was done showing the long term effects of elevated PM 2.5 levels on health and it was found that for every increase in 5 points over a reading of 10,   death from all causes increased by 7%. 

 

 

Good luck finding a place in Asia that is around 10 or even 20.   I'll wait.

 

Even in Europe it goes way over that number almost all the time, as is readily apparent if you look at that air quality site (http://aqicn.org ) 

 

Let's look at Europe right now shall we, the UK, directly in a nice Atlantic breeze.. and PM2.5 levels are.. around 50.  So good luck finding a place that's at 10. 

 

 

In summary, you have unrealistic expectations for almost anywhere on the planet, but particularly so for Asia.

 

 

[wolfmuc]

On 10/29/2017 at 7:24 PM, canopy said:

Air has already become filthy and we are only in October. The AQI has shot over 100 on the scale in a lot of places meaning it is over twice as bad as air considered to be of good quality and will keep climbing. Visibility is becoming very limited due to the pollution. I can't remember it getting this bad this fast before. This could be a very bad year.

 

Every sentence you wrote: yes, yes, yes, ...

Here in Phrae Province it started with 'dirty clouds' already 3 days ago.

That's been October 27.

Now in this valley of the Yom at daytime we cannot see the mountainous area

in the West and in the East, distance may be between 3 - 10 km.

So bad.

But -I think- it's not the rural farmer.

And the wind blew it away, ...

Wind coming from NE.

 

 

[mduras01]

Definitely felt it today in Chiang Mai.


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[lannarebirth]

8 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

 

Good luck finding a place in Asia that is around 10 or even 20.   I'll wait.

 

Even in Europe it goes way over that number almost all the time, as is readily apparent if you look at that air quality site (http://aqicn.org ) 

 

Let's look at Europe right now shall we, the UK, directly in a nice Atlantic breeze.. and PM2.5 levels are.. around 50.  So good luck finding a place that's at 10. 

 

 

In summary, you have unrealistic expectations for almost anywhere on the planet, but particularly so for Asia.

 

 

Earth is an inhospitable place for "bubble boys". I hear Mars is even worse.

[Ruffian Dick]

On 10/26/2017 at 1:30 AM, amexpat said:

 

A PM<10 reading of 200 is not an opinion.  Visibility less than 500 meters is not an opinion. People don't check into hospitals because of their opinions.

It's probably more accurate to say "it's relative". Chiang Mai isn't the only place where people burn things.  And it's not the only bowl-shaped valley in the world. And different people have different sensitivities.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Ruffian Dick

[JimGant]

Quote

What I gather from all of the comments combined is that the air quality is pretty poor in Chiang Mai and surrounding areas

Please get the word out to all those retirement publications hyping Chiang Mai.

 

I wonder what the Chinese publications say about Chiang Mai pollution  - probably something like, 'want a refreshing breath of fresh air, leave China for holiday in Chiang Mai.'

 

 

[luther]

https://weather.weatherbug.com/life/air-quality/boone-nc-28607

 

My wife and I built a house in the mountains of Western North Carolina with the idea that we would leave here for three months and escape Chiang Mai's worst air. 

 

Just checked the AQI in Boone.  Link above.

 

I don't really notice 40 - 80 ppm, but above that, I feel like it's foolish to ride a bike or work strenuously outside.