400,000 Thais To Be Sued

[torrenova]

If the average debt is 400,000 and the salary is 100,000 per year then the UK debt on a salary of 25,000 would be £100,000 equivalent. Now I had a debt but no-one wuold have lent me £100,000 to go to university. The numbers don't stack up.

As TC says, what % were bogus ? 59,999 ?

[wintermute]

If the average debt is 400,000 and the salary is 100,000 per year then the UK debt on a salary of 25,000 would be £100,000 equivalent. Now I had a debt but no-one wuold have lent me £100,000 to go to university. The numbers don't stack up.

As TC says, what % were bogus ? 59,999 ?

Let's say that 60,000 defaults are only the tip of the iceberg and the loans were at around 400,000 each on average that's around 720 million dollars U.S. gone. That's a staggering loss for Thailand. I bet there's significantly more defaults than that not to mention defaults on loan "top ups" and what not.

[Bagwan]

School teachers are themselves lobbying the Government to settle their personal debts. Seems that the blind are leading the blind.

[Heng]

The legal execution department has already been doing a brisk business and gets more and more efficient year by year in seizing and auctioning property held by those in default. This latest step is just more in the same direction.

As for the OP raising property taxes, all that would do is ensure that the poor have no land/property left whatsoever.

[wintermute]

As for the OP raising property taxes, all that would do is ensure that the poor have no land/property left whatsoever.

Isn't that the whole point of giving out risky loans to the poor?

Thailand's version of subprime.

[Heng]

We'll certainly loan out to folks who can't get bank loans, but only when secured by property. We'd much rather have them pay off their loans than have to seize their property (which more often than not is long term slow return property that we'd rather not own if given the choice).

edit: had to lookup subprime to find out that we were actually in the subprime lending business. LOL.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Heng

[sriracha john]

Growing numbers choose to default on student loans

Young people in the provinces with state student loans are increasingly refusing to pay them off, being convinced the government dare not charge them for fear of losing public support. The practice has become so common that the Student Loan Fund (SLF) is struggling to deal with about 90,000 defaulters. Relatives of the people with debts have told them the government would do nothing, even if they do not settle their debt. "It cares too much about its political support in the provinces,'' said Sanguan, 25, a debtor from Roi Et who declined to reveal his last name. As a result, he said, many of his friends had decided not to repay the money, even though their actions would lead to fines with higher interest rates on their loans. Unlike his colleagues, university graduate Sanguan, who owes only 2,000 baht to the SLF, said he planned to start settling his debt this year after finding a job. "I've realised that I should repay the money so that the fund will be able to lend money to other new students," he said. The SLF is a revolving fund. Officials need repayment to fund new student loans. "Even though it has lodged a lawsuit against me, I am unable to pay off my debt," said Top, 26. Top believed authorities were unable to find him because he always changed his first name, last name and address. His grandfather and grandmother, who were guarantors, were already dead, he added. SLF manager Thada suggested that those with monthly incomes of less than 4,700 baht discuss their debt-relief plans with the Alternative Dispute Resolution Office in Bangkok to help solve the problem. However, he said, only 3,000 of the 90,000 debtors have so far followed his advice to negotiate a new debt repayment plan. Altogether, about four billion baht was owing. "Such a false way of thinking is very dangerous to our fund," said Thada. "They have to realise that the fund is crucial to other needy, poor students." His office expects about 800,000 students to apply for loans in the new academic year.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/21Jan2008_news06.php

Edited January 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[soundman]

This thread is so indicative of a certain cross section of Thai soceity.

Borrow money anyway you can with no intention of ever paying it back, make yourself scarce, change your name, plead "I have no money" - even though I am riding a new motorbike & have a new mobile phone, do anything possible to get out of paying back the money you owe.

Get a job? No - too hard, I might actually have to do some work. Easier to vote for Taxin - he'll save us & give me some more money so I don't have to get a job.

Soundman.

[TAWP]

"It cares too much about its political support in the provinces,''

This says so much about the political scene here that it's obvious democracy can never be.

[sriracha john]

UPDATE... the numbers are up to 90,000 now

Court to arbitrate cases against loan defaulters

The Court of Justice has joined forces with the Student Loans Fund (SLF) to launch an arbitration project to prevent lawsuits against nearly 90,000 debtors from proceeding to court.Published on January 9, 2008

UPDATE... and now five months later, the defaulters have skyrocketed to 400,000

Loan fund to take legal action against 400,000 students

The Student Loan Fund plans to file lawsuits against as many as 400,000 students with outstanding loans worth 4.3 Billion Baht, according to the fund's manager, Thada Martin. Mr Thada said that in the cases of debtors showing no willingness to negotiate, the fund would collect information on them for a database to support its court actions. He said the fund had been reluctant to file lawsuits against students, but the amount of unpaid debt was growing large. *understatement of year contender* He said the funds needed to be recovered so that money would be available to benefit students in the next generation. Normally, students are supposed to start repaying their loans two years after graduation. The fund has 1.7 million students who are due to pay back total loans of 14 Billion Baht. It has 9.7 Billion Baht worth of repayments to date, leaving 4.3 Billion Baht outstanding. This year the fund granted loans of 35 Billion Baht to 840,000 students. The number has shown a tendency to increase each year due to higher education costs and inflation. In 2009, the fund plans to adjust the family income requirement for students eligible to apply for loans to a maximum of 200,000 baht per year, instead of 150,000 baht, so that more students could be helped.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/Business/09Jun2008_biz27.php

================================================================

*Might a helpful mod please update the thread title to

400,000 Thais To Be Sued

Loan Jumpers

thank you*

Edited June 9, 2008 by sriracha john

[Samuian]

..... in addition, several years later, somebody with the right connections and access to the information could obtain a lot of land in certain areas at potentially knockdown prices.

Knowing too well how things are made "working" in this country, one may assume that this was the idea for the invention of the scheme right from the beginning!

here it's probably "economics"...

[silentnine]

my g/f has oneof these loans from 1998/1999

200,000 baht i think

she had heard nothing from them at all until about 6 months ago, when they sent her a deman, she called into the bank paid them 1000 baht, and agreed to pay 1000 per month thereafter.

its all very well saying thye are going to sue non payers, but sue them for waht ? most will be unemployed or on a low salary. in faranglad they would send the bailiffs round .

waht is there enforement here ? take there rice cooker ??

i do recall i think taht to get the loan there parents had to gaurentee it . so will it be the parents of 600,000 students they sue , or the students themsleves

[Briggsy]

my g/f has oneof these loans from 1998/1999

200,000 baht i think

she had heard nothing from them at all until about 6 months ago, when they sent her a deman, she called into the bank paid them 1000 baht, and agreed to pay 1000 per month thereafter.

its all very well saying thye are going to sue non payers, but sue them for waht ? most will be unemployed or on a low salary. in faranglad they would send the bailiffs round .

waht is there enforement here ? take there rice cooker ??

i do recall i think taht to get the loan there parents had to gaurentee it . so will it be the parents of 600,000 students they sue , or the students themsleves

The land that was used as a guarantee for the loan. That's what they will be after.

Look back at my earlier post.

I'm no fan of Thaksin but this scheme was introduced by the previous government and was heavily linked to the Chart Pattana party at the time.

I found it hard to believe at the time all the students seemed so blase about borrowing the equivalent of 50 years basic salary for something of limited value.

[soundman]

One thing that makes the mind bogel about this loan fiasco is that once the "student loan" is approved, the student is paid in cash rather than a direct payment once a semester to the educational institution.

Opens the system to all sorts of scams and back-handers.

The sister of my housekeeper qualified for an 80,000B student loan useing the family home as sureity, once the money was in her hands she went to college for a few weeks and promptly "dissappeared" off the grid. That was over three years ago.

Soundman.

[Briggsy]

One thing that makes the mind bogel about this loan fiasco is that once the "student loan" is approved, the student is paid in cash rather than a direct payment once a semester to the educational institution.

Opens the system to all sorts of scams and back-handers.

The sister of my housekeeper qualified for an 80,000B student loan useing the family home as sureity, once the money was in her hands she went to college for a few weeks and promptly "dissappeared" off the grid. That was over three years ago.

Soundman.

That was certainly not the case when I was teaching at a large university.

The tuition fees and bits and bobs for books, etc. went direct to the university.

The students received 4,000 Baht per month in cash for living expenses.

[Tywais]

Might a helpful mod please update the thread title

Done.

[sibeymai]

My TW owes 130,000 for a degree which at most she was able to earn 12,000Bt a month. Does not seem worth it when, without studying, she could have joined the workforce sooner and in four years (the length of her study) been earning the same or more based on her experience and with no debt.

She did mention to me that about two weeks ago that she would start to repay this debt, but now I see there's more to it. Actually I didn't even know she had the debt until two weeks ago. Now she's in for a bit of a grilling I'm afraid. When will Thais learn, especially TGs/TWs, that that they can't keep things secret forever. Most foreigners will catch up with what's happening eventually, either through TV or the media or elsewhere on the internet. Now she gets a verbal slap for not being fully honest and I have to treat her like you would a 5 year old for telling fibs.

It's clear that she (or whoever) stands to loose whatever collateral was put up for the loan and has to start making repayments, hence the little word she had with me about it. A bit too little and a bit too late for me. Especially since we just committed to buy a house and need to hold onto our cash. Now this. Typical. Avoid responsibility at all costs. Well, it will be a good lesson to her if she again fails to purchase a house (she failed once before for not managing her debt correctly). No bail out from me for sure.

[Old Man River]

While the Student Loan Fund may want to file suit against 400,000 in default, one of the PPP's main political platforms was to increase student loans not file suit on those in default. A release of information about 60,000 just prior to the Statute of Limitations being reached is a good indication that this government will sit on this. The PPP fully understands how important this issue is to its voting base.

[Heng]

Actually I didn't even know she had the debt until two weeks ago. Now she's in for a bit of a grilling I'm afraid. When will Thais learn, especially TGs/TWs, that that they can't keep things secret forever. Most foreigners will catch up with what's happening eventually, either through TV or the media or elsewhere on the internet.

I'd say a good quarter of our debtors with loans secured with real estate at the moment are Thais married to foreigners, usually westerners, and to a lesser extent misc. foreigners (Japanese usually though). Plenty of them never find out as the default rate is rather low and almost nil... probably because of the fear of the SHTFan factor.

[Briggsy]

sibeymai

I wouldn't be too hard on your missus. I taught hundreds of these kids and there was a widespread belief that there would never be any serious attempt at recovering the money. The fact that the govt has let it lie for about 10 years has probably just reinforced the belief that the debt was "forgotten about".

[toptuan]

I and everyone who grew up with me had jobs since we were 16 years old. Part-time jobs during the school year, and full-time jobs in the summer. In college and grad school, 80% of the students worked their way through school. (This was in the 60's and 70's.)

As a current instructor at the tertiary level, I was shocked to find out less than 2%-3% of Thai college and university students graduate from these institutions without ever having worked even one hour in a paying job. Not only does it hurt their opportunities to get that "first official post-graduate job," (no experience), but it lulls them into a false sense of security that someone will always be there to bail them out (mom/dad, government, etc.).

In light of that, I have to admit my admiration for Thaksin went up a notch when he put his daughter to work at a MacDonalds during her schooling (2003). Despite the family millions, he felt it important to teach her personal responsibility and the value of a Baht.

[dillon]

Students to be sued

The Student Loan Fund (SLF) plans to sue about 60,000 graduates for failing to repay loans that funded their studies.

Fund manager Prempracha Supasamout said yesterday that defaulters rarely got back in touch even after being issued repayment notices and warned of possible legal action.

"We need to file the lawsuits by July 4 or else the statute of limitations for these cases will pass," he said.

The cases involved about Bt6 billion in principal, interest and fines, he said.

- The Nation

[dillon]

I myself had an outstanding debt here in thailand and I approached them with an offer to pay half now and half on an agreed date the following month - the company was not interested in this and insisted i paid the whole amount or nothing...I argued that i did not have the whole amount and surely it would be better to approacg this realistically by coming mto an arrangement.

I have spoken to many others regarding phone bills and electricity bills - both thai people and farang and they all agreed that the system of "pay the lot" or pay nothing is shortsighted....

Does anyone know ther legal stance on this as I know in the UK if you at least make contact with the company you owe money to - eg banks, credit card companies, mortgage cos etc they are legally obliged to negotiate some form of repayment plan

can anyone advise

[sriracha john]

By pushing his own children to stand as in nominees, shills, and bag-men during his corruption-plagued regime, Thaksin jeopardized their very freedom. Don't think he'll win any Father of the Year awards given his off-spring face years in prison.

His political propaganda point scoring without substance Spin Machine was in full swing in March 2004.... as indeed, her "humbling" experience was literally measured in hours...

The Dutiful Daughter Serves The Grand Master

Otherwise, I completely agree with the initial 2 paragraphs of toptuan's comments.

Edited June 9, 2008 by sriracha john

[sibeymai]

sibeymai

I wouldn't be too hard on your missus. I taught hundreds of these kids and there was a widespread belief that there would never be any serious attempt at recovering the money. The fact that the govt has let it lie for about 10 years has probably just reinforced the belief that the debt was "forgotten about".

Pretty well right Briggsy. I asked her about it last night. She said nobody expects to have to pay the money back. She also said she didn't have to put up any collateral.

My guess is that she's only making a token payment now because she is about to acquire an asset which she would not like to loose, or she doesn't want to be blacklisted by the Credit Bureau since she's borrowing money to buy the asset.

[silentnine]

copying here from another thread as i found this one agian .

Hi All. i posted earlier in this thread but forgot all about it until tilak said some papers from a court were at her home.

i've been with my tilak for 2 years. not a BG.

she did not complete Uni (did 2 years of the course)and has a bill for a goverment student loan of around 150kbaht i think.

she heard nothign from this for many years , she is now 27. but around 6 months ago she had a please pay letter .

so she went into the bank and they said pay 1500b/monht which she did for a few months.

well i forgot all about the thing and it seems so did she.

now a huge pile of court papers have appeared at her parents home summoning her to sakaoe(i never spell it right) court on sunday 3rd august at 8am for non payment.

she has no job and we're not married, so assume they cannot say she has a farang who has to pay.

anyone knwo the score on this ? will they make her pay ? which means i will have to. or are they writing the ones off with little or no visible income?

also its stated they were filing by 4th july to do with soem 4 year limitation. she finished uni 9 years ago !

[kriswillems]

also its stated they were filing by 4th july to do with soem 4 year limitation. she finished uni 9 years ago !

If she started at university at 18 and studied until 21, she would have to start paying back the loan at 23 (2 years after graduating), which she failed to do for 4 years. She is 23+4 = 27 years now.

[Heng]

As long as she doesn't have any assets (land/house) in her name, there's nothing to seize. Often times when people get court summons out of the blue, it's because they just recently purchased property. Creditors regularly scan the property ownership registry at the country's land offices to see if debtor's names pop up. If they do, the start court proceedings after said debtors.

[silentnine]

also its stated they were filing by 4th july to do with soem 4 year limitation. she finished uni 9 years ago !

If she started at university at 18 and studied until 21, she would have to start paying back the loan at 23 (2 years after graduating), which she failed to do for 4 years. She is 23+4 = 27 years now.

yes thats right. 4 years i guess

she says the 1st she ever heard about it was the letter which would be between 6 & 9 months ago.

so like many of these debtors i guess if they were not being nagged for it thye were not going to pay.

the question is though . waht will the courts do? make a new arrangement to pay by installments or go for her parents

[silentnine]

i know this is a relativly old thread now.

however they had the deadline of 4th july for sending out either 90,000 or 400,000 sets of court papers.

as i have said on this thread my tg has had papers summoning her to court with her father.

has anyone else had them ? and how are people dealing with it .

i know idealy the culprits would of paid up , however as can be seen clearly nearly half a million did not.

and theres no point in being negative about thoese who did not , after all, how many farangs had a credit card party then moved to LOS, so we're not perfect either.

my breif read of the pile , says that a lawyer will be appointed at court for 650 baht.

is this there phase for negotiation with the debtors where they ask them to make legaly binding payment plans .

or are they now going for throats.

it was said many times that court action would not happen as its a vote loser. well the papers are out, votes or no votes, so who else has has got them ? she can't be the only one ! or am i the only farang here with a uni educated girl that defaulted .. lol