Brexit never? Britain can still change its mind, says Article 50 author

[chrissables]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

Tell me you're not going to try and debate that Uk tabloids are a reliable and intelligent source of information. 

 

http://www.humantruth.info/uk_newspapers_comparison.html

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/facebook-more-trusted-news-daily-star-according-bbc-commissioned-survey/

 

 

Nowhere have i tried to do that, please check and get back to me.

[Ron19]

Two abusive posts as well as a nonsense troll post have been removed.

If you want to keep this up you may not be posting for a while.

[Ron19]

A post with an offensive comment has been edited,

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

You are very rude, aren't you? I don't particularly take much notice of any of the papers because they all have their own leanings, as obviously do you. 

 

As for the EU, my opinion came from extensive research for balanced facts and arguments, with more research to find support or fair opposition for or against those arguments. The EU did not emerge well.

 

Enjoy your "educated" opinions from the Guardian.  

 

 

I don't read The Guardian; too teachers' unions for me.

 

I recommend The Economist

 

I think it fair to say that the number of dissatisfied people in the UK is growing not reducing. When they find that, post Brexit, things are worse not better there may be a revolution.

 

Higher taxes are needed.

[simoh1490]

This is an excellent overview of UK government's money in/money out picture which I highly recommend everyone take a look at. I know it's in the Guardian but that can't be helped, it doesn't however change the numbers: Hint - take a look at the social money out figure.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2017/nov/22/where-does-the-uk-government-get-its-money-and-what-does-it-spend-it-all-on

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Exactly what problem are you talking about? Do you really think that the UK is alone with problems? 

 

You need to take a better look at the EU (even though it is not a country, mine or anyone else's). 

 

  

 

One problem is the 2 Trillion national debt which is still increasing! 

 

The Cons address this by reducing corporation tax and giving tax breaks to the wealthy

 

Our problems are our own and leaving the EU will exacerbate them NOT ameliorate them at all.

[Ron19]

A troll post containing foul language has been removed.

[adammike]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I think that last part is very true, I'm not sure about the first part however, I think the population now knows far more about what might be involved in Brexit so it's difficult to know how they might react, I'd like to find out though.

It's Brexit fatigue,I think the main thing is "just get it done" for better or worse.

[Grouse]

On 22/11/2017 at 9:34 AM, Retiredandhappyhere said:

There will be a reasonably satisfactory ending

Well whoopee! After all the expense and angst; all the damaged futures and wrecked trade agreements; all the weakened environmental and social protection we can look forward to "a reasonably satisfactory ending"? It had better be a gigantic improvement on that!

 

It is my opinion that Brexit should be predicated on huge upside benefits due to the potential huge risks. Just "reasonably satisfactory" is in no way good enough. 

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Grouse

[nausea]

More good news post budget:

 

"The UK is on course for its longest fall in living standards since records began over 60 years ago, the Resolution Foundation think tank has said."

 

"Its post-Budget analysis says the squeeze on incomes is set to last longer than that which followed the post-2008 crash."

(per BBC)

 

Still, let's look on the bright side, eh!

 

"Hammond: Let's prove grim forecasts wrong"

(per BBC)

 

 

[baansgr]

16 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Utter rubbish and nonsense, no thinking person who goes in search of fact and educated opinion reads tabloids, period, except for entertainment!

 

Desmond is the owner of The Express and he's an ex-porn baron and a budding rock drummer; The Sun is famous for page three tits; the Mail and I quote:  "The Daily Mail has been widely criticized for its unreliability, as well as printing of sensationalist and inaccurate scare stories of science and medical research^{[11][12][13][14][15]}and of copyright violations". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail

 

Gawd help us if those are the sources of your information on Brexit, no wonder you hold the views that you do.

I have to say,  this is the condescending attitude with no truth that went out in the 80s.

[adammike]

47 minutes ago, baansgr said:

I have to say,  this is the condescending attitude with no truth that went out in the 80s.

There was a famous trade union leader back in the day who said "the reason I have a rolled up copy of the Mirror in my back pocket is to show solidarity with my members, when I want to read the truth I read the FT". The daily mail like all the print papers are hemorrhaging readers but it's the most widely read news? paper in the world online,luckily the yooth of today don't read it,the only person I know who actually reads it is my mum and she's 94 in a few weeks.There is a bit off a backlash one company withdrew it's advertising after a social media campaign,it's a disgraceful rag but it did support Oswald Moseley and his black shirts so shouldn't be surprised. 

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

I have to say,  this is the condescending attitude with no truth that went out in the 80s.

The two links in post 390 confirm this is very true and is very much a 2017 issue that has existed since the 80's.

Edited November 23, 2017 by simoh1490

[simoh1490]

I wrote earlier about the perilous state of the UK's finances even before considering the Brexit issue, it seems Bloomberg's feels the same way on this issue: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-22/britain-s-budget-is-an-impossible-balancing-act

[adammike]

A Indian diplomat said in London today that the UK would have to accept immigration from India if they wanted a trade deal,and it might take 10 years to negotiate the deal.

[nausea]

Meanwhile, looking over the water:

 

"the Eurozone economy is in robust health and on track for its best rate of growth in a decade"

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/883347/pound-sterling-v-euro-exchange-rate-eurozone-economy-boom-industry

 

What's the antonym for schadenfreude - being miserable in the success of others.

 

Ha! No, I joke, I'm happy for them, really - mitfreude, mixed with a little envy, jealousy even.

 

 

[Khun Han]

14 minutes ago, nausea said:

Meanwhile, looking over the water:

 

"the Eurozone economy is in robust health and on track for its best rate of growth in a decade"

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/883347/pound-sterling-v-euro-exchange-rate-eurozone-economy-boom-industry

 

What's the antonym for schadenfreude - being miserable in the success of others.

 

Ha! No, I joke, I'm happy for them, really - mitfreude, mixed with a little envy, jealousy even.

 

 

 

How long can the ECB keep kicking forward the trillion Euros of toxic debt from southern Europe's failed economies? And what happens when it can't?

[simoh1490]

Yet another well written and highly informative article on the economy, easy to understand: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/uk-economic-forecast-brexit-reason-economy-living-standards-wage-loss-households-city-a8072436.html

[simoh1490]

18 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

How long can the ECB keep kicking forward the trillion Euros of toxic debt from southern Europe's failed economies? And what happens when it can't?

Your statement reminds me very much of SgtRock last year who was so anti-EU and especially, anti-Deutche Bank, he was certain that DB would fold by March and that it would drag the EU down with it. Here we are and it's almost December and DB is doing just fine.

[baansgr]

3 hours ago, adammike said:

A Indian diplomat said in London today that the UK would have to accept immigration from India if they wanted a trade deal,and it might take 10 years to negotiate the deal.

I alao read that a man is climing the Earth is flat

[baansgr]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

The two links in post 390 confirm this is very true and is very much a 2017 issue that has existed since the 80's.

Its the way you say it that is condescending. Its on a par with calling an afro american the N word. Thats how disgustingly offensive your remark is

[simoh1490]

Just now, baansgr said:

Its the way you say it that is condescending. Its on a par with calling an afro american the N word. Thats how disgustingly offensive your remark is

Your analogy is so far adrift it's unfunny and seriously inappropriate!

 

In the fifty years I've been reading newspapers and known other people doing the same, I've never once met anyone who believed tabloid newspapers were the place to go to for fact on anything. Even the journo's I've known who worked for them will tell you that, so will the editorial staff, tabloids were never in the business of objective analysis and factual and accurate political and economics reporting. More importantly, everyone I have ever met has always known that, the question becomes why you don't, I'm sorry if you don't like the way I say things but this spade is a spade, not a soil removal utensil, not a shovel, it's a spade!

 

[baansgr]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Your analogy is so far adrift it's unfunny and seriously inappropriate!

 

In the fifty years I've been reading newspapers and known other people doing the same, I've never once met anyone who believed tabloid newspapers were the place to go to for fact on anything. Even the journo's I've known who worked for them will tell you that, so will the editorial staff, tabloids were never in the business of objective analysis and factual and accurate political and economics reporting. More importantly, everyone I have ever met has always known that, the question becomes why you don't, I'm sorry if you don't like the way I say things but this spade is a spade, not a soil removal utensil, not a shovel, it's a spade!

 

You still dont get it do you. 

[simoh1490]

10 minutes ago, baansgr said:

You still dont get it do you. 

Only too well, you think you're being spoken to you and you are, you should know better.

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Yet another well written and highly informative article on the economy, easy to understand: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/uk-economic-forecast-brexit-reason-economy-living-standards-wage-loss-households-city-a8072436.html

Nothing to do with pre 2010 Labour policy and the 2008 financial crisis then?

 

 

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Nothing to do with pre 2010 Labour policy and the 2008 financial crisis then?

 

 

1

It depends on how far back you want to try and trace the problem, some want to go back as far as Thatcher, others the second world war! My view is we are where we are today and we need to set the past aside and get on with making a path for ourselves that is economically and sociologically viable which may or may not include Brexit.

Edited November 24, 2017 by simoh1490

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, baansgr said:

You still dont get it do you. 

 

I've given up debating with Simon because he's an unpleasant soul when he posts in political discussions (as you are finding out). But former long-time political editor of The Sun, Trevor Kavanagh, is highly respected in the political world.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Khun Han

[simoh1490]

He's an Associate Editor, not Editor.

 

And to say that he is highly respected in the political world is just nonesence:

 

"The letter stated the MPs "were truly outraged by the hate and bigotry" in Kavanagh's column".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Kavanagh

 

And guys........CEASE the personal attacks, now...if you want to debate Brexit and all that entails, debate ahead but the attacks will end!

 

Hans: you gave up debating here because you didn't have a viable argument, any time you develop one, come on back!

Edited November 24, 2017 by simoh1490

[RuamRudy]

50 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

He's an Associate Editor, not Editor.

 

And to say that he is highly respected in the political world is just nonesence:

 

"The letter stated the MPs "were truly outraged by the hate and bigotry" in Kavanagh's column".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Kavanagh

 

And guys........CEASE the personal attacks, now...if you want to debate Brexit and all that entails, debate ahead but the attacks will end!

 

Hans: you gave up debating here because you didn't have a viable argument, any time you develop one, come on back!

I remember reading a puff piece about Trevor Kavanagh, where he claimed that he had one of the most difficult jobs in British journalism - distilling complex political issues into a format that a typical Sun reader could comprehend (his words, or thereabouts, not mine).  As they say, it was the sun wot won it. 

 

 

[Khun Han]

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It is you who are talking  nonesence  nonsense because it is you who always initiates the personal stuff. 

 

He even makes stuff up when reporting posts, such as complaining that his quoted posts have been modified AFTER it's been pointed out to him that it's the forum software that removes embedded quotes. Like I said, he becomes Mister Unpleasant when he gets into politics debates, barking out orders about what members can and cannot post, and full of snide remarks.He's not even particularly well-informed. Not the sort of person with whom I want to interact on here.