Australian tourist Stacey Liddle to go home next week

[Russell17au]

7 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

My point is, you were happy the hospital was paid, I was unhappy the hospital is allowed to steal from foreigners.

If they charged us the same price as Thais, we could all easily afford to pay.

Thai hospitals are crooks.

 

@Techno Viking.

Yes, in foreigner holiday areas, government hospitals jump on the cheating bandwagon.

I do not know what country you are from but if you go to any country that you are not a citizen of then you will pay more for any medical treatment that you need. Countries have medical schemes for their own citizens and it is cheaper than it is for tourist. It is the same all over the world so stop putting shit on Thailand about higher medical fees for tourists. The hospitals are not crooks as you say. You sound like a typical tourist that wants everything for free.

[stevenl]

23 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I do not know what country you are from but if you go to any country that you are not a citizen of then you will pay more for any medical treatment that you need. Countries have medical schemes for their own citizens and it is cheaper than it is for tourist. It is the same all over the world so stop putting shit on Thailand about higher medical fees for tourists. The hospitals are not crooks as you say. You sound like a typical tourist that wants everything for free.

For many countries, including Thailand, totally incorrect.

[movsrus]

This is why Thailand should require tourists to buy insurance when they visit. The government could set up some kind of insurance upon arrival and require that tourists either provide proof of coverage from their home country or buy it from a Thai company before they pass through Immigration. Too many young people think they are immune to to being hurt and when it does happen they get overwhelmed with the cost. 

[Techno Viking]

Just now, movsrus said:

This is why Thailand should require tourists to buy insurance when they visit. The government could set up some kind of insurance upon arrival and require that tourists either provide proof of coverage from their home country or buy it from a Thai company before they pass through Immigration. Too many young people think they are immune to to being hurt and when it does happen they get overwhelmed with the cost. 

She had insurance when she arrived.

 

She engaged in activities which voided the insurance.

 

What insurance would the government setup to circumvent the ignorance of the tourists ?

[movsrus]

1 minute ago, Techno Viking said:

She had insurance when she arrived.

 

She engaged in activities which voided the insurance.

 

What insurance would the government setup to circumvent the ignorance of the tourists ?

That is why a government sponsored insurance would be better for tourists. It could be configured to cover the gamut of activities tourists want to do. Like all insurance it would take awhile to fine tune coverage but given the number of tourists that visit this country I doubt the premium would prevent that many people from visiting.  Some backpacker types might complain but they are in the group that most needs coverage.

[samsensam]

8 minutes ago, movsrus said:

That is why a government sponsored insurance would be better for tourists. It could be configured to cover the gamut of activities tourists want to do. Like all insurance it would take awhile to fine tune coverage but given the number of tourists that visit this country I doubt the premium would prevent that many people from visiting.  Some backpacker types might complain but they are in the group that most needs coverage.

 

haha do you understand how insurance works? there are very good reasons why insurance companies dont cover certain activities, why would a government get involved? why would a government offer cheaper premiums? it's not a feasible business model.

[Russell17au]

18 minutes ago, stevenl said:

For many countries, including Thailand, totally incorrect.

Thailand my Thai wife went to outpatients at a hospital and she produced her Thai ID card and she was charged 30baht, I went to the same outpatients at the same hospital and I was charged 80baht. In Australia as an Australian citizen I have a Medicare card which comes from my taxes, my Thai wife does not have a Medicare card so we must pay more for her to visit the doctor than we pay for me and there are many other countries that operate the same. So it is not incorrect as you claim for citizens to pay less than tourists for medical treatment if they do not have insurance

[Techno Viking]

21 minutes ago, movsrus said:

That is why a government sponsored insurance would be better for tourists. It could be configured to cover the gamut of activities tourists want to do. Like all insurance it would take awhile to fine tune coverage but given the number of tourists that visit this country I doubt the premium would prevent that many people from visiting.  Some backpacker types might complain but they are in the group that most needs coverage.

lol @ a Government insurance scheme that cover's tourists if they are injured whilst indulging in illegal activities !!

Edited November 12, 2017 by Techno Viking

[sanemax]

8 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

My point is, you were happy the hospital was paid, I was unhappy the hospital is allowed to steal from foreigners.

If they charged us the same price as Thais, we could all easily afford to pay.

Thai hospitals are crooks.

How about back in your own Country , do you feel that foreigners should get the same benefits as indigenous people ?

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Thailand my Thai wife went to outpatients at a hospital and she produced her Thai ID card and she was charged 30baht, I went to the same outpatients at the same hospital and I was charged 80baht. In Australia as an Australian citizen I have a Medicare card which comes from my taxes, my Thai wife does not have a Medicare card so we must pay more for her to visit the doctor than we pay for me and there are many other countries that operate the same. So it is not incorrect as you claim for citizens to pay less than tourists for medical treatment if they do not have insurance

That, your last sentence, is not what I claim nor what you said.

On top of that, you're comparing insurance sponsored prices with regular prices.

[Techno Viking]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

How about back in your own Country , do you feel that foreigners should get the same benefits as indigenous people ?

I hear the Aboriginals in Australia get decent cash handouts as well as a house and Toyota landcruiser.

 

Am sure many would put their hand up for that !!

[Russell17au]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

That, your last sentence, is not what I claim nor what you said.

On top of that, you're comparing insurance sponsored prices with regular prices.

My Thai wife does not have medical insurance here in Thailand. We do not pay into an insurance scheme. She is covered by the Thai National Medical Scheme of which only the holders of a Thai ID card are entitle to. I do not have a Thai ID card so therefore I am not entitled to the same medical benefits at the same price as her and that is the same in Australia between Australian residents and non residents. You do not get the same benefits at the same price. If you want private medical insurance then you must take that policy out yourself to suit what you want

[movsrus]

27 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

haha do you understand how insurance works? there are very good reasons why insurance companies dont cover certain activities, why would a government get involved? why would a government offer cheaper premiums? it's not a feasible business model.

I have an understanding of how insurance works which is why I think making a mandatory requirement for entry to be able to prove you have insurance or to buy some from either the government or an insurance company would make sense.  In 2016 over 32 million toruists visited this country (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-tourism/thailand-tourist-numbers-rise-nearly-nine-percent-in-2016-idUSKBN14P0QF) which would provide a wide enough pool of insured to pay for people who got hurt plus allow the company to make a profit.  For sake of discussion, cut the Reuter number in half and assume a premium of 350 baht per person for insurance coverage for any activity- other than dumb shit stuff like doing dope or trying to do a high dive into a pool from the 10th floor hotel balcony.  That would generate aproximately 5.6x10(9) baht or 170 million USD.  

 

As an investor, I would look at this premium stream against a potential liability payout and think it would be a good investment.  A 350 baht entry fee for insurance would not significantly cut into the stream of tourists which flock into this country and would provide them with some kind of coverage without being an overly oppressive cost.

 

Many people don't think about getting hurt on their vacation and don't consider restrictions contained in their insurance policies when they travel.  A minimal fee for required insurance would prevent people from feeling they were held hostage for hospital bills, eliminate a burden on Thai hospital budgets for coverage of foreigners who can't pay and provide relief for those who have the unfortunate accident while visiting Thailand.

 

As more and more retired people from the US come to visit, they need to be aware that Medicare will not pay for any medical expense outside the US or its territories.  Get hurt here with no additional insurance and it will all be out-of-pocket.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

My Thai wife does not have medical insurance here in Thailand. We do not pay into an insurance scheme. She is covered by the Thai National Medical Scheme of which only the holders of a Thai ID card are entitle to. I do not have a Thai ID card so therefore I am not entitled to the same medical benefits at the same price as her and that is the same in Australia between Australian residents and non residents. You do not get the same benefits at the same price. If you want private medical insurance then you must take that policy out yourself to suit what you want

True, there is the 30 baht scheme in Thailand. In many countries though it is a form of (compulsory) insurance.

[Russell17au]

9 minutes ago, movsrus said:

I have an understanding of how insurance works which is why I think making a mandatory requirement for entry to be able to prove you have insurance or to buy some from either the government or an insurance company would make sense.  In 2016 over 32 million toruists visited this country (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-tourism/thailand-tourist-numbers-rise-nearly-nine-percent-in-2016-idUSKBN14P0QF) which would provide a wide enough pool of insured to pay for people who got hurt plus allow the company to make a profit.  For sake of discussion, cut the Reuter number in half and assume a premium of 350 baht per person for insurance coverage for any activity- other than dumb shit stuff like doing dope or trying to do a high dive into a pool from the 10th floor hotel balcony.  That would generate aproximately 5.6x10(9) baht or 170 million USD.  

 

As an investor, I would look at this premium stream against a potential liability payout and think it would be a good investment.  A 350 baht entry fee for insurance would not significantly cut into the stream of tourists which flock into this country and would provide them with some kind of coverage without being an overly oppressive cost.

 

Many people don't think about getting hurt on their vacation and don't consider restrictions contained in their insurance policies when they travel.  A minimal fee for required insurance would prevent people from feeling they were held hostage for hospital bills, eliminate a burden on Thai hospital budgets for coverage of foreigners who can't pay and provide relief for those who have the unfortunate accident while visiting Thailand.

 

As more and more retired people from the US come to visit, they need to be aware that Medicare will not pay for any medical expense outside the US or its territories.  Get hurt here with no additional insurance and it will all be out-of-pocket.

even with this insurance the tourist still will not consider the restrictions that is placed on these insurance policies. Are you still going to have a taking of risk exclusion in the policy or can the tourist do what ever they like even if it is illegal. Will it stop tourist from hiring motorbikes that do not have a license? Answer to that is "NO"

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

True, there is the 30 baht scheme in Thailand. In many countries though it is a form of (compulsory) insurance.

In Australia it is not an insurance. If you are not an Australian then you are not covered for any medical, you cannot apply to be included unless you become an Australian Permanent Resident and that cannot be done for a tourist as it takes 10-12 months for the visa application to be approved and then you are only a temporary resident for the next 2 years before you are given permanent status. I have separate medical insurance in Australia and in Thailand for both my wife and myself

[movsrus]

Just now, Russell17au said:

even with this insurance the tourist still will not consider the restrictions that is placed on these insurance policies. Are you still going to have a taking of risk exclusion in the policy or can the tourist do what ever they like even if it is illegal. Will it stop tourist from hiring motorbikes that do not have a license? Answer to that is "NO"

As I stated before, the coverage would not be all inclusive but given the number of people who get hurt in this country from motorcycle accidents, I would include that in the coverage.  What about zip line accidents?  I don't know but I would think that consideration would be included in the assessment an insurance company would make prior to offering coverage.

 

I live in Chiang Mai and am continually amazed at the poor to non-existent skills visitors exhibit when driving motorcycles in the city.  Talking on a cell phone, looking in the mirror to see if they have new zits and lane changes without even looking are exhibited everyday here.  Those activities notwithstanding, I still think an insurance company could make a profit by covering most of the activities tourists engage in here and, in doing so. provide a benefit to both the tourists and the country.

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, movsrus said:

As I stated before, the coverage would not be all inclusive but given the number of people who get hurt in this country from motorcycle accidents, I would include that in the coverage.  What about zip line accidents?  I don't know but I would think that consideration would be included in the assessment an insurance company would make prior to offering coverage.

 

I live in Chiang Mai and am continually amazed at the poor to non-existent skills visitors exhibit when driving motorcycles in the city.  Talking on a cell phone, looking in the mirror to see if they have new zits and lane changes without even looking are exhibited everyday here.  Those activities notwithstanding, I still think an insurance company could make a profit by covering most of the activities tourists engage in here and, in doing so. provide a benefit to both the tourists and the country.

It does not matter what type of insurance that is there the fact is that no insurance company is going to cover any illegal activity like riding a motorbike without a license so we are back to square one which is about Stacey's insurance company because Stacey engaged in an activity that the insurance company said that she was not allowed to do. No insurance company would give anyone any cover for what she did

[Techno Viking]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

It does not matter what type of insurance that is there the fact is that no insurance company is going to cover any illegal activity like riding a motorbike without a license so we are back to square one which is about Stacey's insurance company because Stacey engaged in an activity that the insurance company said that she was not allowed to do. No insurance company would give anyone any cover for what she did

All ive read is the insurance company did not cover high risk activities and considered riding a scooter to be one of them.

 

Where has it been stated she did not hold a bike licence ?

[Thaidream]

Healthcare is a human right not an opportunity for a hospital or a doctor to make money off  person's suffering.  Most  industrialized countries (except the USA) have universal healthcare paid by taxes.  Thailand has both private and government hospitals.  Thailand should be treating tourists in the same manner as its own citizens and not charging anything more and if a person cannot pay- then Thailand seeks reimbursement from the tourist's home country. Another plan would be to add on 100 Baht to a tourist's air ticket for medical coverage.An Expat with a 1 year extension should be allowed to be enrolled in the countries Social Security scheme.

 

Insurance companies are not needed as their sole purpose is to make money off another person's medical issues and at times refuse payment based upon an undecipherable policy . There are plenty of other ways to pay for healthcare  if governments actually care about their citizens and their visitors and residents. Otherwise, they are just pandering to greedy business interests- doctors; hospitals, insurance and pharmaceutical companies that are trying to make money off the misery of others. It's time to end this practice.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, Techno Viking said:

All ive read is the insurance company did not cover high risk activities and considered riding a scooter to be one of them.

 

Where has it been stated she did not hold a bike licence ?

it was covered at the start when this whole thing first happened plus it has been stated in the Australia media

[theguyfromanotherforum]

4 hours ago, shackleton said:

if people had the correct insurance cover in the first place there would be no problems

I have been in Thailand a lot of  years have good medical insurance with a world class insurer

Have been to two of the top hospitals here in Bangkok many times first class service 

you pay for what you get

 

Now post something related to this story....preferably without italics lettering

[movsrus]

15 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

It does not matter what type of insurance that is there the fact is that no insurance company is going to cover any illegal activity like riding a motorbike without a license so we are back to square one which is about Stacey's insurance company because Stacey engaged in an activity that the insurance company said that she was not allowed to do. No insurance company would give anyone any cover for what she did

Which is why I propose a mandatory insurance coverage for tourists as part of the entry process.  That coverage would include motorcycle accidents whether or not the victim had a license or not.  Not everything would be covered- that would be determined by the insurance company but the bulk of accidents here occur on the roads and that should be covered by a tourist accident policy that would be required for entry on a tourist visa or entry permit.

[Techno Viking]

1 minute ago, movsrus said:

Which is why I propose a mandatory insurance coverage for tourists as part of the entry process.  That coverage would include motorcycle accidents whether or not the victim had a license or not.  Not everything would be covered- that would be determined by the insurance company but the bulk of accidents here occur on the roads and that should be covered by a tourist accident policy that would be required for entry on a tourist visa or entry permit.

those without licence are covered but not everyone would be covered.

 

How does that work, who is not covered ?

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, movsrus said:

Which is why I propose a mandatory insurance coverage for tourists as part of the entry process.  That coverage would include motorcycle accidents whether or not the victim had a license or not.  Not everything would be covered- that would be determined by the insurance company but the bulk of accidents here occur on the roads and that should be covered by a tourist accident policy that would be required for entry on a tourist visa or entry permit.

That would be relieving anyone of the responsibility of their own actions and saying to them look come here to Thailand and do what ever you want to do without taking any responsibility. I think that would send the wrong message. I think what is needed is for some regulations for the bike rentals to check licenses but then someone else could get the bike for them or they could borrow someone else's bike. I don't think there is an easy answer except to maybe try to educate the tourist about not placing themselves in this type of danger

[simon43]

2 comments:

1) Vachira is generally known not to charge foreigners extra.  They treat many foreign tourists and local expats, and seem to have a good reputation for providing a decent service at a fair rate.

 

2) I live in Myammar and in most localities that are popular with foreign tourists, they are forbidden to rent/ride motorcycles, for safety's sake.  The exceptions seem to be for experienced big bike riders who can rent and go touring from Mandalay, or for resident expats (such as I).

 

I'm in Inle Lake region right now, and no motorbike rentals for foreigners - they all rent bicycles instead.

 

Can you imagine if the Thai government had the sense to ban most foreign tourists from renting motorbikes?   No such sense or concern for their safety, unlike in Myanmar.

[Russell17au]

This motorbike problem with tourists is not only here in Thailand but it is also in Indonesia, Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. It is a big problem for most of the southeast asia area but how can it be fixed as many people ignore the laws and ignore their insurance policies

[observer90210]

A few posts suggest here that the poor girl suffered a mishap as she was enduring "activities she would not do back home"....

 

Sorry but unless I missed something here, what is so dangerous in taking a tour bus when on holiday ?

 

She was not skydiving, riding a big bike or anything of the sort ? Or have I overlooked something ?

 

Next, the devils advocate would say that it would be pertinent for  Thailand to fully assume the expenses in this case..... ...Why? ..

 

Many european countries for instance, give compensation to bystanders (tourists or locals) who are direct or indirect victims of a terrorist attack. The legislator considered that the victims deserved compensation and full medical coverage at it is public governance's responsability to provide a safe environment for society. And if this safety flaws, the government must compensate by law  (ok ok this is Thailand and not Europe,  I am aware, relax).

 

Consequently, as Thai society is unable to provide a safe road environment, it would be pertinent for Thailand in the future to fully assume the medical charges of tourists who get caught in a mishap while in public tourist transport or in a taxi. Such a law would surely get some wonderful media group photo posing for the TAT !!

 

However, it is stated that the girl needed to raise  money for the hospital fees ? What about insurance ? Did she have one for accidents abroad ? Did she have a clause in the accident insurance or a coplimentary insurance that gives a rapid cash advance to cover emergency hospital fees ? A sort of an insurance that covers another insurance in advancing the money rapidly. Apparently, she did not have such coverage as the money had to be raised.

 

Lacking medical or accident coverage when abroad is irresponsable,  it is a must...you are surely worth the extra cost !!

Edited November 12, 2017 by observer90210

[Russell17au]

5 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

A few posts suggest here that the poor girl suffered a mishap as she was enduring "activities she would not do back home"....

 

Sorry but unless I missed something here, what is so dangerous in taking a tour bus when on holiday ?

 

She was not skydiving, riding a big bike or anything of the sort ? Or have I overlooked something ?

 

Next, the devils advocate would say that it would be pertinent for  Thailand to fully assume the expenses in this case..... ...Why? ..

 

Many european countries for instance, give compensation to bystanders (tourists or locals) who are direct or indirect victims of a terrorist attack. The legislator considered that the victims deserved compensation and full medical coverage at it is public governance's responsability to provide a safe environment for society. And if this safety flaws, the government must compensate by law  (ok ok this is Thailand and not Europe,  I am aware, relax).

 

Consequently, as Thai society is unable to provide a safe road environment, it would be pertinent for Thailand in the future to fully assume the medical charges of tourists who get caught in a mishap on the condition that they did not indulge in some dangerous activity. Such a law would surely get some wonderful media group photo posing for the TAT !!

 

However, it is stated that the girl needed to raise  money for the hospital fees ? What about insurance ? Did she have one for accidents abroad ? Did she have a clause in the accident insurance or a coplimentary insurance that gives a rapid cash advance to cover emergency hospital fees ? A sort of an insurance that covers another insurance in advancing the money rapidly. Apparently, she did not have such coverage as the money had to be raised.

 

Lacking medical or accident coverage when abroad is irresponsable,  it is a must...you are surely worth the extra cost !!

Yes, You missed something. She was not on the bus she was riding a scooter which was deemed to be of a high risk in her insurance policy and went under the bus and her insurance company has said no payment you did wrong

[observer90210]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Yes, You missed something. She was not on the bus she was riding a scooter which was deemed to be of a high risk in her insurance policy and went under the bus and her insurance company has said no payment you did wrong

Then they are a bunch of cheats. Better in that case to make things clear with the accident insurance before a trip. Thanks for clarifying.