Just done TM 30 at CW non o visa based on marriage

[wood]

An update on our TM30 and advice requested.

Background - I am British, married to a Thai lady for 20 years, we both live in the UK, she is a British citizen and has both a valid British and valid Thai passport. 

We visit family and our home in Thailand for 3- 4 months every winter.

We do everything by the book and both obtained a single entry non O visa ( giving us the 90 days ) based on me being married to a Thai national.

The wife likes to travel on her British passport.

I went, together with my wife to CW yesterday to present my TM30 within 24 hours of arrival as required.

My TM30 was accepted okay and the receipt issued, they then asked my wife if she entered on her British passport  ( she did), they insisted she also declared a TM30, even though she presented her Thai I.D.

Fair enough we thought - so i provide this as an update for your information.

We may need to  stay longer than the 90 days due to a funeral, so I enquired about a 60 day extension to my non O single entry visa and was told that I can only extend for 7 days.

Caught out with that to be honest - I always trawl through latest visa matters, to keep ahead of all this but, where I thought it was a 1900 baht fee matter for a 60 day extension, I have missed the actuality of the facts.

Any advice would be welcomed....

 

Regards to all.

Edited November 17, 2017 by wood
Grammar

[Mattd]

Unfortunately immigration are correct, as the 60 day extension would be to visit your Thai wife, you could not justify this seeing as the entered Thailand on her British passport, so from an extension POV she is not Thai.

Your best option would be do a hop across a border and get a 30 day visa exempt entry, which can be extend a further 30 days.

IMHO your wife really should enter Thailand on her Thai passport, it is not gaining anything by entering on the UK passport, in fact, as you are finding out, it is detrimental.

[wood]

Thought that would be the case Matt.

A heads up to others though.

Since this is the first ever non imm O single entry,

1. - what is the case had she entered on her Thai passport ?

2. - is the 60 day extension only available with the ME non imm   O visa ?

3. There was an important reason for her to use the British passport - could not be avoided - if we do change the entry to her Thai passport, would that enable them to issue me an extension  of 60 days based on marriage? 

 

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, wood said:

1. - what is the case had she entered on her Thai passport ?

2. - is the 60 day extension only available with the ME non imm   O visa ?

3. There was an important reason for her to use the British passport - could not be avoided - if we do change the entry to her Thai passport, would that enable them to issue me an extension  of 60 days based on marriage? 

 1. If she had entered on her Thai passport immigration would do the 60 day extension without a question. If you went to another office and she only showed her Thai ID card and house book then you might be still be able to get one.

2. The 60 day extension can be applied for with any type of entry.

3. I can think of no good reason for her not entering on her Thai passport. Only negatives for entering on  her UK passport.

 

[wood]

Thanks UJ .

That is what I always thought - did not factor in the issues with her entering on a British passport.

Now I know - 

I thought that BKK only had CW for this work ?

Assuming I will obtain a 60 day extension to my 90 day non imm O visa, is there a date that I should plan to do this? 

 

I am sure that my case will assist a good number of British citizens with similar stories since what you advise is not mentioned on any embassy website, nor is it advice which is readily proffered by any imm staff I have encountered.

Many thanks....

Edited November 17, 2017 by wood

[Mattd]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

1. If she had entered on her Thai passport immigration would do the 60 day extension without a question. If you went to another office and she only showed her Thai ID card and house book then you might be still be able to get one.

@ubonjoe this is not a bad solution, but would he be able to get the extension at any office, or only the office local to where they are staying, as wouldn't immigration require a copy of the Tabien Bahn that the OP's wife is registered in? (assuming that is, that she is still registered in a tabien bahn)

Also, as his wife entered on her UK passport, then presumably she would also require an extension of sorts?

Edited November 17, 2017 by Mattd

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Mattd said:

@ubonjoe this is not a bad solution, but would he be able to get the extension at any office, or only the office local to where they are staying, as wouldn't immigration require a copy of the Tabien Bahn that the OP's wife is registered in? (assuming that is, that she is still registered in a tabien bahn)

Also, as his wife entered on her UK passport, then presumably she would also require an extension of sorts?

He might even be able to it at CW. Not sure why the went there to do the TM30 report. They don't ask for it from individuals.

The tambien ban or can be from anywhere. The tambien does not have to be for the province where the application is done. He would only need proof of residence where he applies.

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

He might even be able to it at CW. Not sure why the went there to do the TM30 report. They don't ask for it from individuals.

The tambien ban or can be from anywhere. The tambien does not have to be for the province where the application is done. He would only need proof of residence where he applies.

So basically, as long as they are in a hotel or similar in a area, then they could go and apply.

Yes, not sure why the TM.30 was submitted, although, to be fair, there is so much confusion and misinformation out there in this regard, that probably led them to believe they must, I'd have kept quiet about the extension side at that point.

TBH, once the time comes, then it is extremely unlikely that the IO who dealt with the TM 30 would remember them, especially as it is two different counters, it would probably worth a punt to go and try for the extension using his wife's ID card, tabien bahn and proof of residence.

If it didn't work, then a couple of nights holiday in Pattaya or Hua Hin and do there. Unless the refusal in CW shows up in database?

[wood]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

He might even be able to it at CW. Not sure why the went there to do the TM30 report. They don't ask for it from individuals.

The tambien ban or can be from anywhere. The tambien does not have to be for the province where the application is done. He would only need proof of residence where he applies.

This is part of the confusion out there UJ. We have our own property in Thailand and since I understand the property owner ( my wife) has to do the TM30, I thought to join her during the visit to CW.

Understanding how important it is to abide by immigration rules and the numerous TM30 posts on TVisa, sometimes, it's best to open the door and take a look inside.......

Thanks for clarification on the house book....

 

[wood]

5 minutes ago, Mattd said:

So basically, as long as they are in a hotel or similar in a area, then they could go and apply.

Yes, not sure why the TM.30 was submitted, although, to be fair, there is so much confusion and misinformation out there in this regard, that probably led them to believe they must, I'd have kept quiet about the extension side at that point.

TBH, once the time comes, then it is extremely unlikely that the IO who dealt with the TM 30 would remember them, especially as it is two different counters, it would probably worth a punt to go and try for the extension using his wife's ID card, tabien bahn and proof of residence.

If it didn't work, then a couple of nights holiday in Pattaya or Hua Hin and do there. Unless the refusal in CW shows up in database?

Thanks Matt, you are correct, it is confusing.....

We have not had a refusal as such just a conversation for planning the next step..

[Mattd]

Just now, wood said:

We have not had a refusal as such just a conversation for planning the next step..

Yes, I understood that part, what I was referring to was for you to just go and try for a 60 day extension at CW using your wife's ID and house book and see what happens, as chances of them remembering the conversation when you submitted the TM30 are virtually nil, though there is a record of a TM30 for your wife this shouldn't come out.

If they refuse, then perhaps try another province.

The issue bugging me though is your wife, as if you will need to extend, then she must have to also? She is perfectly entitled to of course, as a Thai, just could confuse the issue with your extension being based on visiting your wife, if you understand where I am coming from.

Will be interesting to see how things pan out, good luck.

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

Also, as his wife entered on her UK passport, then presumably she would also require an extension of sorts?

This seems to be the problem. He might get a 60 day extension if the issuing office just took her to be a Thai citizen without realizing she entered on a UK passport, but when they return to the UK would she need to leave on her Thai passport or would she be on overstay using her UK passport when leaving? And if she left on her Thai passport, from immigration's point of view, she entered on a visa in her UK passport and never left??

Edited November 17, 2017 by Suradit69

[wood]

35 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

This seems to be the problem. He might get a 60 day extension if the issuing office just took her to be a Thai citizen without realizing she entered on a UK passport, but when they return to the UK would she need to leave on her Thai passport or would she be on overstay using her UK passport when leaving? And if she left on her Thai passport, from immigration's point of view, she entered on a visa in her UK passport and never left??

Thanks for your comments on my situation..  

It's clear now the situation that I am in, but now, thanks to the previous posters, it is also clear how to extricate myself from this situation.

All I now ask is clarification on the number of days prior to my 90 day expiry can I apply for a 60 day extension.

 

Best regards.  

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, wood said:

All I now ask is clarification on the number of days prior to my 90 day expiry can I apply for a 60 day extension.

You can do it during the last couple of weeks. They might even do it 30 days early at CW.

[tgeezer]

Oh my god I hope that we are not all expected to go to CW and present TM 30 forms now. Have you been making these reports every winter visit for a long time 'wood' because from what you say If you are visiting family and staying in a hotel the hotel does the TM 30 and if you are staying with family the head of the household does it, so why did you do it?

Also as the non-imm. 'O' visa morphed into a 90 day visa which can be extended as required? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that these visas were issued with the express intention of extending to one year.

 

 

It used to be the case also that when an extesion was denied you got seven days, I believe that this was theoretically the time consideration of your case took, I think that there was no charge for this service.

 

 

 

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[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Oh my god I hope that we are not all expected to go to CW and present TM 30 forms now.

I think you CW folks can hold off on worry, unless and until we get news they have hired another 1000+ persons to handle such a process for everyone.

 

4 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Also as the non-imm. 'O' visa morphed into a 90 day visa which can be extended as required? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that these visas were issued with the express intention of extending to one year.

Single Entry Non-O are 90-days.  There is no requirement they will be extended, and no assumption they will be, unless acquired by a "conversion" process at immigration in-Thailand.  Even in the case of conversion, you could "just leave" after 90-days, but they could (would likely, at many offices) tell you to take a hike if you showed up for another conversion again.

 

4 hours ago, tgeezer said:

It used to be the case also that when an extesion was denied you got seven days, I believe that this was theoretically the time consideration of your case took, I think that there was no charge for this service.

You get 7-days, and this is not based on time of consideration - you get it to, basically, "get your stuff together and get out," without going on overstay.

Edited November 17, 2017 by JackThompson

[Aditi Sharma]

I have worried to death about chasing my housemaster when I have to. I dont know how come I am alone in doing so. Dont they charge 2000 baht for delays? They say within 24 hours, dont they? And I have been told that not all immigration offices enforce the TM30 rule. Tough enough arriving somewhere, tougher to make it to the queue within 24 hours. Help!!!

[tgeezer]

Jack Thompson . The rules change in response to demand so I am merely giving my impression of how things appear to me. If you look at Madra 22 it says that you have seven days to appeal an order to leave so I interpret that as the week which people call an extension. It doesn’t take seven days to pack your bags and get a plane out but they can’t kick you out and deprive you of your right of appeal. There is a provision in the law for many temporary visitors to request up to a years stay but rules have been established linking the period of such extensions to the type of visa used to enter the country. My impression is that the non-Imm visas are generally sought in order to get the one year extension for retirement or marriage. Take the case of wanting to stay because of marriage, it would be odd to want only 90 days of marriage but I have read of two examples here lately of people being disappointed not to be given short extensions on non-Imm ‘O’ stays.


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[JackThompson]

26 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I have worried to death about chasing my housemaster when I have to. I dont know how come I am alone in doing so. Dont they charge 2000 baht for delays? They say within 24 hours, dont they? And I have been told that not all immigration offices enforce the TM30 rule. Tough enough arriving somewhere, tougher to make it to the queue within 24 hours. Help!!!

No need to worry at all if in Bangkok within CW's jurisdiction.

If staying in a hotel on first-arrival, you don't have to worry about this - they are responsible. 

For longer-term stays, make arrangements with land-lord before signing lease - as a condition of signing.  Find out from your local immigration office what the landlord and/or you will need to do, first.

[Aditi Sharma]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

No need to worry at all if in Bangkok within CW's jurisdiction.

If staying in a hotel on first-arrival, you don't have to worry about this - they are responsible. 

For longer-term stays, make arrangements with land-lord before signing lease - as a condition of signing.  Find out from your local immigration office what the landlord and/or you will need to do, first.

In my case accommodation is part of the compensation and is free ( will be staying with my folks).

Edited November 17, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
edit

[Sheryl]

42 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

In my case accommodation is part of the compensation and is free ( will be staying with my folks).

Then they should submit the TM30. What is the problem?

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Jack Thompson . The rules change in response to demand so I am merely giving my impression of how things appear to me. If you look at Madra 22 it says that you have seven days to appeal an order to leave so I interpret that as the week which people call an extension. It doesn’t take seven days to pack your bags and get a plane out but they can’t kick you out and deprive you of your right of appeal.

I had not considered the "appeal" provision - nor ever heard of it being used - though you may be correct about this being the origin of the 7-days.  Most times, it is used by people on business-extensions, who must do this the same day their job ends (which is nuts).

 

3 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

There is a provision in the law for many temporary visitors to request up to a years stay but rules have been established linking the period of such extensions to the type of visa used to enter the country. My impression is that the non-Imm visas are generally sought in order to get the one year extension for retirement or marriage. Take the case of wanting to stay because of marriage, it would be odd to want only 90 days of marriage but I have read of two examples here lately of people being disappointed not to be given short extensions on non-Imm ‘O’ stays.

I agree, that is most often the case.   But the one-year Visas (not extensions) do allow for people coming in and out.   

I noted those 2 cases in another post, where it seemed to be connected to showing money which would be "seasoned" during the 60-days, to allow for a year extension.  But another poster noted he recently obtained a 60-days without this at one of the same offices (he included a pic of the extension-stamp), so this may just be a matter of communication-breakdown.  Hopefully, it does not become a trend.

[tgeezer]

My feeling is that one used to get the visa to retire here enter the country and when convenient extend it for the full year. The seasoning was introduced in response to cheating so we now have to wait two months before extending in the first year. There is still a requirment for 90 days seasoning in subsequent years which I think most people have been able to forget about by keeping the funds in reserve. It would have been better if it hadn’t been introduced meaning as it does, that if you were using the money to live on you would need 800000 plus three months expenses three months before renewal.

What I don’t want is people to pre-emt problems with immigration by volunteering to do things which they have heard other people in completely different circumstances to themselves, have been fined for not doing. This topic is about doing just that at Jeang Wattana where nobody has been fined or even asked to do a TM30, Yet!

 

 

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