Pricing Policies At Sansuk Sauna, Racist Or Not Racist?

[jumnien]

Go girl!!!

[jumnien]

Here's whats happening at University of California Riverside from today's LA Times:

Since 1996, state law has forbidden using race in college admissions. But at Riverside, administrators say they have worked hard over the last decade to reach out to eligible minority applicants, giving financial aid packages to promising students such as Curry, and creating race-based programs to assist minority students once they enroll.

This seems to be similar to the sauna. Lower admission requirements for member of targeted lower-income groups. People have to remember that Thais as a group make one tenth what farangs make in income.

But, let's face it sisters. The reality is that who comes to a sauna in Thailand and wants to see a bunch of old farangs populating it. The more young Thai butt the better, can you argue with that?

[pumpuiman]

This sauna charges falang so they can meet and have sex with Thai people.

Thai's are the draw obviously, I dont get the argument here.

[Thaiquila]

The sauna policy promotes "Thai butt"; it punishes non-Thai butt, of ALL ages.

So the 20 year old non-Thai is not afforded the age discount of the young Thai.

Thais are the majority in Thailand! They are not a "lower income" minority group. It is their country for God's sake. Your analogy is completely irrelevant.

Edited January 15, 2007 by Thaiquila

[jumnien]

Do the math, lover. Thais make less money that farang, it's not rocket science.

[Thaiquila]

Do the math, lover. Thais make less money that farang, it's not rocket science.

So if a farang announces that he makes less money, does he get the discount too?

No, of course not.

Because the pricing policy is based on RACE/NATIONALITY, and not wealth or income.

[Thaiquila]

This sauna charges falang so they can meet and have sex with Thai people.

Thai's are the draw obviously, I dont get the argument here.

Well, not exactly.

The cute younger ones that so many gay people want to see in a sauna could be attracted with an AGE based discount program that has nothing to do with race/nationality.

This is a another classic case of SOAKING farangs for the sake of soaking, because they can get away with it. And with so many farangs supporting/defending this kind of race/nationality discrimination, I predict alot more businesses will join the bandwagon. Congrats!

[jumnien]

I think you can hardly expect the sauna to audit the patron's last two years tax returns trying to figure out who's got the cash. Remember though, for everyone's sake and pleasure, including their own, they want a lot of young Thai butt in there and there is nothing at all wrong with that. It's a beautiful thang! Go and enjoy... or don't!

[jumnien]

One thing your missing here is that a Thai citizen that was of the Caucasian persuasian would pay a discounted rate or free right? while an American of pure Asian decent, by policy, might pay at a full price. Where is the racism exactly?

Edited January 15, 2007 by mdeland

[TopChinese]

Oh nice.. my first deleted post.

Guess there isn't a point in participating in a conversation if reasoned posts are being censored in an arbritary fashion.

[ProThaiExpat]

Having waded through all of the posts in this thread so far, I see little or no alarm expressed with bias or discrimination based upon age.

I submit that in the gay community there is more age discrimination than in the straight community, particulary when it comes to sex.

I certainly have a preference for younger guys and undobtedly discriminate against older gays in my personal life. However, is it morally right? Race discrimination has come a long way in this century and it is now politically incorrect to discriminate according to race. Will it someday be politically incorrect to discriminate against gay men due to their age.

While the western views in this thread seem to emphasize the desireability of young gay Thais in saunas in Thailand for the enjoyment of falang, what do Thais want when they go to the sauna?

The only time I ever went to Babylon, I was so busy with under 30 Thais that I was like a kid in a candy store. Perhaps we should introduce the concept of "appearance" as a legitimate means of discrimination that has a rational business basis.

A desireable, handsome and in shape older gay (and well hung) perhaps should receive the same pricing treatment as young Thai "butt". How popular would a sauna be if most of its customers were young Thai passives.

Most of the major world famous "clubs" have doormen with discriminatory powers based on appearance and many U.S. saunas have clearly posted signs regarding appearance discrimination. There the intake counter staff exercise discriminatory autority based on appearance. I am sure that during slow times, the standards are lowered and of course raised when they are close to full.

My take on this issue is what would I do if I owned the sauna upon which this thread is based". I would go the appearance route and train the counter staff to admit patrons on appearance and their contribution to the "mix". If there are Thai laws that do not allow outright refusal to the highly unattractive, I would have a pricing policy that would allow substantial discounts to patrons that make the suana more "exciting" so as to enhance the reputation and draw other customers.

The full price could be applied to the least desireable patrons to discourage them.

[Thaiquila]

One thing your missing here is that a Thai citizen that was of the Caucasian persuasian would pay a discounted rate or free right? while an American of pure Asian decent, by policy, might pay at a full price. Where is the racism exactly?

One thing you are missing here is that the exact policies of this sauna are vague. Most perpertrators of race/nationality based price preferences try to keep it that way. Why? Probably to keep control over the details, avoid bad publicity, save face, maybe some are ashamed of it.

We don't really know what race based decisions will be made in real life there. With an age promotion, your ID says your age is eligible or it does not.

So,

What about a Lao? They are Asian, but not Thai, but there language is like Thai, so, hmmmm, maybe they are Thai enough for the Thai discount?

What about a Singaporean. Hmmm. Asian, yes. But maybe too rich. Better try asking the farang price.

And, on and on, a big smelly CAN OF WORMS.

Thats what you get when you introduce RACE/NATIONALITY as a discriminating criteria.

Edited January 15, 2007 by Thaiquila

[Thaiquila]

ProThai,

I think the subject of the worship of youth and "good looks" in international gay culture is off topic. It is a fact of life. I agree there are many dark aspects to it. But in the context of sauna entry promotions, I suggest age based discrimination versus race based ones merely because it accomplishes what seems to be what people want commercially without getting into the messier and more sensitive area of race. Discrimination based on looks would also offend a great number of people, such as those being rejected.

You could argue that it would only be truly fair if all customers got the same price, no promotions at all, but I don't think the result of such a policy in a gay sauna in Pattaya would be widely pleasing for either the customers or the owner.

Edited January 15, 2007 by Thaiquila

[jumnien]

Last post a bit confusing. You say your ID says your age is eligible or it is not. And that is OK with you. Well, your ID identifies your citizenship as well. You are either Thai, or not Thai; it has nothing at all in any way to do with race. One of the beautiful things about living in Thailand is that things are not the same as in our home countries. That gay saunas have a slightly different nuance in Thailand should be seen as a positive. Enjoy the venue... or not!

[Thaiquila]

Not confusing, really.

The Thai price in Thailand is often granted to other Asians, just because they are Asians, like the Thais are. Its a RACE thing, not just a national ID thing. Is it clear to you now?

Who knows whether or not this sauna is granting the Thai price to non-Thai Asians? Do you? No. Does the owner post his policies? No.

Do you think a non-Thai ASIAN person like a Lao or Burmese or Singaporean, who rides a baht bus in Pattaya and hands the driver the Thai price instead of the farang price will be challenged if he doesn't open his mouth? Of course, he won't. He gets the Asian RACE price.

With an age based criteria, there would no mysteries.

I guess alot of people can't recognize racism when it is crammed down their throats. Its a mild racism though. You might get a smile when you pay your special "farang price."

Edited January 15, 2007 by Thaiquila

[jumnien]

I'd like to say I'm tired of all the favoritism I've seen in Thailand toward the Koreans and Taiwanese, but really I think I'm treated far more fairly than they are. Hey, buddy, grow up. I bet car salesman in Ohio give better deals to their WASP friends than they do to Vietnamese immigrants. Tribalism is a human trait and thankfully hasn't been completely weeded out. You must have loved the "Stepford Wives".

[Thaiquila]

I'd like to say I'm tired of all the favoritism I've seen in Thailand toward the Koreans and Taiwanese, but really I think I'm treated far more fairly than they are. Hey, buddy, grow up. I bet car salesman in Ohio give better deals to their WASP friends than they do to Vietnamese immigrants. Tribalism is a human trait and thankfully hasn't been completely weeded out. You must have loved the "Stepford Wives".

Yeah, tribalism, racial bias, corrupt special favors for people like you, we really need even more of that in the world!

[jumnien]

If you asked nicely, we'd all chip and get you in for the same price as a Chiang Rai schoolboy! How's that, Peaches?

[Thaiquila]

If you asked nicely, we'd all chip and get you in for the same price as a Chiang Rai schoolboy! How's that, Peaches?

Very funny. But I don't really want a special price. I just want race based pricing in Thailand to be challenged for a change, and not taken with a smile and a tube of KY.

[jumnien]

If you asked nicely, we'd all chip and get you in for the same price as a Chiang Rai schoolboy! How's that, Peaches?

Very funny. But I don't really want a special price. I just want race based pricing in Thailand to be challenged for a change, and not taken with a smile and a tube of KY.

Lose the tube of KY and the smile will lose itself...

[Thaiquila]

If you asked nicely, we'd all chip and get you in for the same price as a Chiang Rai schoolboy! How's that, Peaches?

Very funny. But I don't really want a special price. I just want race based pricing in Thailand to be challenged for a change, and not taken with a smile and a tube of KY.

Lose the tube of KY and the smile will lose itself...

This certainly is the gay section!

[chonabot]

TQ and mdeland please tone down the wisecracks before this thread gets out of hand.

CHeers

[Hollywood]

I don't see it as a race issue but an economic one.

I'm with this view.

It's an issue of economics; Thais generally earn less than farangs so give them the chance to get in at a lower price. Also, and importantly, young Thais are who we go to saunas to meet and a sauna full of young Thais will draw in the higher paying farangs. I think the owner of the sauna recognises this and has made a smart move to let young Thais in free or at a discount.

Frankly, it does not bother me if I have to pay more than a local to visit a place I enjoy.

I agree also. I'd let the cute young ones in free!

The promoters of the Nation party did this with their weekend pass tickets. The Thais were given a break on the ticket price.

[Thaiquila]

I don't see it as a race issue but an economic one.

I'm with this view.

It's an issue of economics; Thais generally earn less than farangs so give them the chance to get in at a lower price. Also, and importantly, young Thais are who we go to saunas to meet and a sauna full of young Thais will draw in the higher paying farangs. I think the owner of the sauna recognises this and has made a smart move to let young Thais in free or at a discount.

Frankly, it does not bother me if I have to pay more than a local to visit a place I enjoy.

I agree also. I'd let the cute young ones in free!

The promoters of the Nation party did this with their weekend pass tickets. The Thais were given a break on the ticket price.

Yes, I agree. It is a smart business move to allow younger men in free. A fact of gay life. However, why does the policy have to exclude younger men who are not Thai, or perhaps Asian? As far as I know, these race/nationality based policies are not explicitly posted. And also there are discounts for all older Thais.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but Pattaya is an international resort; there are many diverse peoples here. I would think it would be even smarter business policy and PUBLIC RELATIONS policy to be inclusive of these different peoples in discount policies. For example, there are quite a few Russian young men about town, surely some would be interested in a free sauna entrance.

The owner of the Sansuk sauna who is fully fluent in English is aware of this thread and is more than welcome to comment about his particular sauna's policies. I think it would be interesting to hear from a Thai owner who is implementing race/nationalistic based pricing policies and talk openly about it (for a change).

Edited January 16, 2007 by Thaiquila

[PeaceBlondie]

Hi ThaiQuila. I wrote an earlier reply, but maybe the computer ate my homework.

I think it's far more national than racial. Hill tribe and Burmese probably get charged the same as ethnic Thais, at gay saunas. It's assumed that foreigners had enough money to travel to Thailand, and are probably tourists or rich, so they can pay the full price.

As ProThaiExpat mentioned about House of Male sauna in Chiang Mai, they have a buddy night (Tuesday), when two are admitted for 130 baht, even if one of the two people is not Thai. The Thai price is 100 baht on other nights; farang pay 130. A 100 baht admission is expensive for many Thais.

Pattaya is unique - not exactly a first class international resort that's known in St. Moritz or even in Miami Beach or Bournemouth, but it's a big resort.

Why not start a sauna yourself? You could charge one standard admission, and see what happens.

[Thaiquila]

PB, I do not oppose creative price promotions. I do think, especially in an international city like Pattaya, when they are based on race/nationality only, they are offensive and not inclusive.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Thaiquila

[jumnien]

Thaiquila,

You designed a poll and 70% of the people responding disagree with you and yet you still seem to be doing most of the talking. Were you really interested in other's responses or did you just want a forum for your minority opinion?

[Thaiquila]

Thaiquila,

You designed a poll and 70% of the people responding disagree with you and yet you still seem to be doing most of the talking. Were you really interested in other's responses or did you just want a forum for your minority opinion?

Both. I know I have a minority opinion, but as you see it is about 30 percent who also feel racism is at play. Now, please explain to me why a businessman would want to enfore a policy that 30 percent of people think is racist when he could get the same business result without that kind of negative feeling? Maybe he wasn't aware what a sizeable block of his potential customers would feel. Well, now he knows.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Thaiquila

[jumnien]

And he also knows that if he uses an unfair single-pricing policy that encourages an older farang clientele and discourages young thai hotties than us older farangs simply will not go!

[popshirt]

I guess alot of people can't recognize racism when it is crammed down their throats. Its a mild racism though. You might get a smile when you pay your special "farang price."

Thaiquila, They Just Don't Get It!