!!!HELP!!! Student Visa Cancellation

[Boo Boo]

Hello, 

 

*PLEASE READ  IT AND GIVE ADVICE IF U KNOW SOMETHING*  I really appreciated.

 

I finished my studies on May and went out of Thailand without re-entry believing that my visa will be cancelled automatically. I came back with Non-B Visa as I got a job at Bangkok. After working for 3 months, I needed to extend my non-b visa but couldn't as my company could not prepare documents on time. So, I had to go back to my country and did another Non-B Visa that I can stay for 3 months. Yesterday, I went to Chaengwattana immigration to extend it but the officer said I haven't cancelled my student visa and my non-b visa cannot be extended. Is really it the case or does she want money? Because all of my friends did not have any problem while they are exactly the same as me (No student visa cancellation and extend Non-B Visa). And another thing I want to ask is that Will there be any problem when I go to cancel my student visa since I finished 6 months ago? If I have to pay fine, how much will it be in estimation?

 

Best Regards

Edited December 2, 2017 by Boo Boo

[tonray]

Not a big worry...just get a letter from your school stating the date your enrollment in studies ended (make it coincide with the date you left Thailand) and you are good to go. Then Chaengwattana can cancel your extension in your passport and process your work extension.

[sanemax]

I was told that if you dont cancel your Ed Visa before you leave, you will be on an overstay, even if you are out the Country .

  You could have to pay 20 000 Baht overstay fine 

[tonray]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I was told that if you dont cancel your Ed Visa before you leave, you will be on an overstay, even if you are out the Country .

  You could have to pay 20 000 Baht overstay fine 

He exited the country...how can he be on overstay ? Same happened to me with work extension...no overstay...hearsay vs reality

[sanemax]

38 minutes ago, tonray said:

He exited the country...how can he be on overstay ? Same happened to me with work extension...no overstay...hearsay vs reality

Leaving the country doesnt cancel the Ed Visa, its still valid, even if you leave the Country and therefore you would be overstaying that visa .

   These were the rules a few years ago and then, they wouldnt let you leave Thailand without cancelling your Ed Visa .

  Maybe they have changed the rules again ?

BTW , it isnt "hearsay" as I had an Ed visa myself and had to get it cancelled before I could leave Thailand

[BritTim]

41 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Leaving the country doesnt cancel the Ed Visa, its still valid, even if you leave the Country and therefore you would be overstaying that visa .

   These were the rules a few years ago and then, they wouldnt let you leave Thailand without cancelling your Ed Visa .

  Maybe they have changed the rules again ?

BTW , it isnt "hearsay" as I had an Ed visa myself and had to get it cancelled before I could leave Thailand

Firstly, immigration certainly cannot cancel any visas. Further, a permission to stay that was not extended never needs to be formally canceled at immigration. I assume you are referring to an extension of stay.

 

As far as leaving the country successfully, and later being charged for overstay because your permission to stay was ended by leaving the country rather than formal cancellation at immigration, I would be interested in seeing proof that this has ever, or could ever, happen. Does it result in arrest, deportation and being blacklisted from entering Thailand in the future? Can you point at the sections in the Immigration Act that confirms this novel interpretation of the law?

 

At some land borders, they will insist that your extension has been formally canceled at immigration before allowing you to leave. I have never heard of this occurring at airports.

 

Refusing to process new extensions when a previous extension of stay was never formally canceled (although it is no longer valid) is uncommon. It has occasionally been reported, and I suspect it is an issue of an intellectually challenged official. An existing extended and still valid permission to stay certainly does need to be canceled before a different extension can be granted, but there is absolutely no logical reason why you and immigration need to spend time canceling a canceled permission to stay. That said, if you are forced to deal with a moron, you will have to do whatever the moron dictates.

[JackThompson]

55 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Leaving the country doesnt cancel the Ed Visa, its still valid, even if you leave the Country and therefore you would be overstaying that visa .

   These were the rules a few years ago and then, they wouldnt let you leave Thailand without cancelling your Ed Visa .

  Maybe they have changed the rules again ?

BTW , it isnt "hearsay" as I had an Ed visa myself and had to get it cancelled before I could leave Thailand

You can't "overstay a visa" - you can only overstay a "permission of stay" date, which is stamped in your passport.

 

Some land-borders will insist people cancel Ed or B based stays before they can depart - but this is not generally enforced at the airport.  Many report flying-out, to avoid overstay, when held-up by an employer who is not assisting in canceling their work-based stay.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Firstly, immigration certainly cannot cancel any visas. Further, a permission to stay that was not extended never needs to be formally canceled at immigration. I assume you are referring to an extension of stay.

No, when I wanted to leave Thailand on the date that my permission to stay expired, my school had to send a letter to the local immigration office, asking them to give me a letter asking border immigration to cancel my ED visa upon departure . if I didnt have that letter, then my ED visa would not have been cancelled and I would have been on overstay, even though I had left the Country .

    This caused many people to unknowingly go on overstay , so border immigration then stopped allowing people out without a letter from the internal immigration office to leave the Country.

   I seemed to have been caught up in the inception of those new rule few years ago, so, they very well could have changed them since, because, they just didnt make any sense

  

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

 

As far as leaving the country successfully, and later being charged for overstay because your permission to stay was ended by leaving the country rather than formal cancellation at immigration, I would be interested in seeing proof that this has ever, or could ever, happen. Does it result in arrest, deportation and being blacklisted from entering Thailand in the future? Can you point at the sections in the Immigration Act that confirms this novel interpretation of the law?

 

Just going from personal experience , I was told by my school and local immigration that I would be treated like any other overstayer upon arrival back in Thailand , if I had left without getting my ED visa cancelled .

  They told me that I would get fined 500 Baht a day and I would have to pay that upon entry 

[BritTim]

56 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No, when I wanted to leave Thailand on the date that my permission to stay expired, my school had to send a letter to the local immigration office, asking them to give me a letter asking border immigration to cancel my ED visa upon departure . if I didnt have that letter, then my ED visa would not have been cancelled and I would have been on overstay, even though I had left the Country .

    This caused many people to unknowingly go on overstay , so border immigration then stopped allowing people out without a letter from the internal immigration office to leave the Country.

   I seemed to have been caught up in the inception of those new rule few years ago, so, they very well could have changed them since, because, they just didnt make any sense

  

Firstly, do you know the difference between "visa", "permission to stay" and "extension of permission to stay"? As I stated previously, immigration (whether at the local immigration office or at the border) has no power to cancel visas. There are processes following legal proceedings where people can be deported and blacklisted, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs invalidate unexpired visas, but I am sure that is not what we are talking about.

 

At land borders, officials are often reluctant to allow you to leave without a re-entry permit if you have an extension of stay issued at an immigration office in Thailand. The reason that was explained to me was that people sometimes left inadvertently canceling their permission to stay, and the confirmation by a stamp at immigration that the cancellation was deliberate was in response to that. Certainly, people who think they are allowed to stay for a year, and end up with a 30-day visa exempt entry (previously 15 days) are very liable to end up on overstay, not because their extension was not canceled, but because it was.

[BritTim]

58 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Just going from personal experience , I was told by my school and local immigration that I would be treated like any other overstayer upon arrival back in Thailand , if I had left without getting my ED visa cancelled .

  They told me that I would get fined 500 Baht a day and I would have to pay that upon entry 

By arrival back in Thailand, I assume you mean at the airport or land border. Does this mean that border  immigration, while unable to cancel your permission to stay on exit, would cancel your old extension at the time of entry on payment of the "overstay" fine? Did they indicate whether there was a maximum fine? Did the "overstay" start when you left the country or the original admitted until date on your extension of stay? Did blacklisting rules apply for "overstays" over 90 days? After paying the fine on entry, were you immediately deported? Can you point at at least one occasion when any of this occurred?

[sanemax]

22 minutes ago, BritTim said:

By arrival back in Thailand, I assume you mean at the airport or land border. Does this mean that border  immigration, while unable to cancel your permission to stay on exit, would cancel your old extension at the time of entry on payment of the "overstay" fine? Did they indicate whether there was a maximum fine? Did the "overstay" start when you left the country or the original admitted until date on your extension of stay? Did blacklisting rules apply for "overstays" over 90 days? After paying the fine on entry, were you immediately deported? Can you point at at least one occasion when any of this occurred?

I am just telling you what happened to me and you seem to have misunderstood me.

I didnt leave Thailand on an Ed visa that wasnt cancelled, they refused to let me leave until I got a letter from the internal immigration office, which caused me to overstay by two days until the letter appeared .

  I was at the internal immigration office on a two day overstay , waiting to be given the letter by them and the I.O asked for my pp for I.D purposes and he studied it, looked my sternly and said to me "You are overstaying, when do you intend to leave " , I said , through gritted teeth "As soon as you give me that letter , look my bags are there in the corner and Im going straight to the bus station "

   He just started laughing and handed the letter over and told me to hurry up and get to the border

AS that renders all your questions as being hypothetical and thus I dont know the answer, it would be better if you asked those questions to someone who did manage to leave Thailand without getting their Ed visa cancelled beforehand

[sanemax]

57 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Firstly, do you know the difference between "visa", "permission to stay" and "extension of permission to stay"? As I stated previously, immigration (whether at the local immigration office or at the border) has no power to cancel visas. There are processes following legal proceedings where people can be deported and blacklisted, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs invalidate unexpired visas, but I am sure that is not what we are talking about.

 

Yes, I do know the difference .

O.K, answer the O.Ps question  : How does one go about cancelling their Ed Visa?

I told him how I did it, you say that I could not do this, so, you tell him how to do it 

[darrendsd]

10 hours ago, sanemax said:

I was told that if you dont cancel your Ed Visa before you leave, you will be on an overstay, even if you are out the Country .

  You could have to pay 20 000 Baht overstay fine 

You have been told wrong

 

It is basic common sense that you can't be on a overstay if you have already left and are outside of the country, all overstay fines must be paid before you leave, Immigration do not let people leave without paying any outstanding O/S fine

 

 

 

 

[007 RED]

5 hours ago, BritTim said:

......   As I stated previously, immigration (whether at the local immigration office or at the border) has no power to cancel visas. There are processes following legal proceedings where people can be deported and blacklisted, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs invalidate unexpired visas, but I am sure that is not what we are talking about.

 

Tim… Sorry to contradict you, but immigration does have the power to revoke a visa, not the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) as you have indicated.

 

The MFA only acts as an agent for the Ministry of the Interior (MoI) when it comes to issuing visas in overseas countries.  It is the MoI which has overall responsibility for all matters relating to immigration.  

The Immigration Bureau comes under the control of the MoI and it is responsible for applying/enforcing the Immigration Act (B.E. 2522).

 

It must be borne in mind that having a visa does not guarantee that the individual will be admitted into the country.  You will find that within the Immigration Act there are numerus clause which give the ‘competent official’ (IO) the powers to revoke entry/permission to stay etc.

 

So for example:  An individual has received a 10 year ban resulting from a conviction of a serious crime within Thailand.  Once back in their home country the individual obtains a visa from their local Embassy/Consulate (because the Embassy/Consulate do not have access to the immigration system they would not know that the individual has been banned). 

 

The individual then tries to re-enter the Kingdom and the moment the IO scans the passport the individual is flagged as having been banned.  The IO will refuse entry and cancel the visa to prevent further attempts at re-entry.  The individual has the right to appeal against the entry and visa being revoked, but the appeal is made to the Immigration Commission who would have the final say, and not the MFA.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Tim… Sorry to contradict you, but immigration does have the power to revoke a visa, not the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) as you have indicated.

 

The MFA only acts as an agent for the Ministry of the Interior (MoI) when it comes to issuing visas in overseas countries.  It is the MoI which has overall responsibility for all matters relating to immigration.  

The Immigration Bureau comes under the control of the MoI and it is responsible for applying/enforcing the Immigration Act (B.E. 2522).

Sorry but you are wrong.

The Ministry of Foreign affairs works independently from immigration or the MOI.

Immigration can in rare cases cancel a visa but it takes a special action for them do it and it has to be a serious offence for them to do it. It is certainly not routine action for them to do it. They can easily cancel an extension of stay with a valid reason to do it.

Embassies and official consulates can cancel a valid visa so that a new visa can be issued.

[sanemax]

3 hours ago, darrendsd said:

You have been told wrong

It is basic common sense that you can't be on a overstay if you have already left and are outside of the country, all overstay fines must be paid before you leave, Immigration do not let people leave without paying any outstanding O/S fine

Did you read the O.P. ?

You didnt, did you 

The O.P. has stated that he left Thailand and because he didnt cancel his visa beforehand , it was stil............just read the O.P.

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, sanemax said:

How does one go about cancelling their Ed Visa?

In most cases, people only get single entry Non Ed visas that are used as soon as they enter Thailand. If you happen to have a multiple entry Non Ed, go back to the consulate that originally issued it, and can give them a good reason, they will cancel it. It is very rare that it becomes necessary.

 

Usually, the only thing that requires canceling is an extension of permission to stay issued at an immigration office in Thailand. There are two ways of canceling it. You can simply leave the country via any airport, or some land borders. For those leaving via border crossings that require immigration stamps confirming you no longer need the extension, you do, indeed, need to visit the immigration office that issued the extension to confirm it is no longer needed. That office may require documentation from the employer/school before going ahead. This eliminates some cases of people staying after the original reason for the extension has ceased to be valid. Note that it is the extension of permission to stay (issued by the immigration office) and not the original visa that is canceled.

 

If you have a re-entry permit, a trip to immigration may also be required. This is because, even if leaving through an airport, your permission to stay remains valid if you return with the re-entry permit before the permission to stay expires.

[darrendsd]

59 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Did you read the O.P. ?

You didnt, did you 

The O.P. has stated that he left Thailand and because he didnt cancel his visa beforehand , it was stil............just read the O.P.

Yes I read it, did you?

 

He states that he has been told his student visa has not been cancelled, this DOES NOT mean he is on a overstay, I see nowhere in the OP where it says he was told by  Chaengwattana immigration that he is on a overstay 

 

You are being contradicted by other posters on every post you have made on this thread, I think that should tell you something

 

Read the OP again and more importantly learn what the term overstay actually means

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Yes I read it, did you?

 

He states that he has been told his student visa has not been cancelled, this DOES NOT mean he is on a overstay, I see nowhere in the OP where it says he was told by  Chaengwattana immigration that he is on a overstay 

 

You are being contradicted by other posters on every post you have made on this thread, I think that should tell you something

 

Read the OP again and more importantly learn what the term overstay actually means

Well thanks for that , I shall go back to immigration and tell them that they were wrong and that if I didnt cancel my Ed visa, I wouldnt be on overstay, because darrensd said so on TV .

   Lets wait until the O.P reports back and states the situation, as whether he is on an overstay or not .

[darrendsd]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Well thanks for that , I shall go back to immigration and tell them that they were wrong and that if I didnt cancel my Ed visa, I wouldnt be on overstay, because darrensd said so on TV .

   Lets wait until the O.P reports back and states the situation, as whether he is on an overstay or not .

Sigh...

 

In your case YES they were correct to fine you for a overstay

 

You stated yourself that you attempted to leave on the last day of your permission to stay but because you didn't have the letter they wouldn't let you leave

 

It then took 2 days to get the letter meaning you had overstayed for 2 days

 

So in YOUR case YES it's correct, you had overstayed by 2 days THAT'S WHY YOU WERE FINED!!

 

It really isn't difficult to work out

 

The OP's case is TOTALLY different to your's 

 

 

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

You are being contradicted by other posters on every post you have made on this thread, I think that should tell you something

 

Not really, every seems to agree that you need to go to internal  immigration and get your permission to stay cancelled before you leave when using an ED visa by way of a letter.

    The only unsurety is about what will be the consequences if you do not cancel your PTS before you leave .

   I was told by the immigration that I would be on overstay if I didnt, even if I had left the country .

 

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Sigh...

 

In your case YES they were correct to fine you for a overstay

 

You stated yourself that you attempted to leave on the last day of your permission to stay but because you didn't have the letter they wouldn't let you leave

 

It then took 2 days to get the letter meaning you had overstayed for 2 days

 

So in YOUR case YES it's correct, you had overstayed by 2 days THAT'S WHY YOU WERE FINED!!

 

It really isn't difficult to work out

 

The OP's case is TOTALLY different to your's 

 

 

My two day overstay is completely irrelevant to this .

The relevant thing is  what would have happened if I did leave Thailand without getting my PTS cancelled , which is the situation that the O.P finds himself in 

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by sanemax

[BritTim]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Not really, every seems to agree that you need to go to internal  immigration and get your permission to stay cancelled before you leave when using an ED visa by way of a letter.

    The only unsurety is about what will be the consequences if you do not cancel your PTS before you leave .

   I was told by the immigration that I would be on overstay if I didnt, even if I had left the country .

One point that is important (assuming what you say is not complete nonsense): when does this "overstay" start? Does it start when you fly out of the country, ending your permission to stay without the immigration letter? Or, does the "overstay" start when the extended permission to stay date expires? On re-entry to Thailand, is it still important to have this immigration letter to prove that your exit from the country was legal, and immigration did not just accidentally allow you to leave illegally?

[darrendsd]

Just now, sanemax said:

My two day overstay is completely irrelevant to this .

The relevant this that what would have happened if I did leave Thailand without getting my PTS cancelled , which is the situation that the O.P finds himself in 

 

Give me strength

 

Yes it is relevant because you are stating that the OP is on a Overstay

 

Learn what the term overstay actually means, there is a big difference between overstay and being fined because some paperwork is not in order

 

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, darrendsd said:

Give me strength

Yes it is relevant because you are stating that the OP is on a Overstay

Learn what the term overstay actually means, there is a big difference between overstay and being fined because some paperwork is not in order

 

 

I remains to be seen as to whether the OP gets fined for not having paperwork in order or whether he gets done for overstaying .

   There is a difference between my situation and his , my overstay is different to his situation .

Mine got dealt with, he is now getting his situation dealt with .

Anyway ,You seemed to be getting rather perturbed , with all your sighing and shouting

Its Sunday afternoon, go for a walk and take a chill pill

[BritTim]

This thread has become ridiculous, with some apparently not understanding what an overstay is. Let me just clarify a couple of situations where overstays do actually apply:

1. If you have an extension of your permission to stay, and the reason for that extension ceases to apply, you must immediately leave the country. As an example, if you have an extension based on studying with an expiry date of 20 December, but your studies ended on 3 December, you must leave on 3 December. If you visit immigration on December 17 with information from the school indicating your studies ended on 3 December, you will be assessed a fine for a 14 day overstay.
2. If you have a long term extension, but erroneously leave and re-enter the country without a re-entry permit, your extension ceases to be valid. This regularly catches out people. They return and are given a 30-day visa exempt entry, and are then shocked months later to see they are on a long overstay.

[darrendsd]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I remains to be seen as to whether the OP gets fined for not having paperwork in order or whether he gets done for overstaying .

   There is a difference between my situation and his , my overstay is different to his situation .

Mine got dealt with, he is now getting his situation dealt with .

Anyway ,You seemed to be getting rather perturbed , with all your sighing and shouting

Its Sunday afternoon, go for a walk and take a chill pill

I suggest you go for a walk and read up on what overstay actually means

 

Now you have been proved wrong on every point you have made you may just learn not to comment on things you don't understand