British PM May faces pressure to soften Brexit divorce after EU exit deal crumbles

[nausea]

Swings and roundabouts - Corbyn here, Trump in the US; I'd bet they'd get on like a house on fire - oops, unfortunate metaphor, or is that simile. Oh, Mr. Cameron, what did you start - the " butterfly effect" springs to mind.

 

[Khun Han]

 

What I will say is that Google Translate works quite well for most phonetic languages .

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, nausea said:

Swings and roundabouts - Corbyn here, Trump in the US; I'd bet they'd get on like a house on fire - oops, unfortunate metaphor, or is that simile. Oh, Mr. Cameron, what did you start - the " butterfly effect" springs to mind.

 

Cameron didn't start it - look a bit further back. Reagan, and his fan-girl Maggie, sowed the seeds of the rampant inequality that is setting fire to society today. 

[citybiker]

Which borders would those be? Are they with countries that aren't members of the customs union?

Research is freely available for you, it’s also been well documented within the MSM.

Border T&C’s are applicable where necessary.

The only people that are over complicating the NI/RoI border is Brussels.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dunroaming]

57 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not amazing, just truthful.

 

Leavers keep complaining that people did not understand the consequences of what they were voting for. From the economic aspect then Cameron should have had an assessment done AND had plans in place for staying in and getting out before the referendum, that he called. These things were Cameron's responsibility but he never thought there would be a vote to leave.

 

I can't say how good a job Davis has done. We don't get enough detail to be able to say. I just knew it would be a hard and thankless job trying to untangle the UK from the rats nest of EU politics and regulation. So much for the good old idea of a simple "common market".

First of all I think you mean remainers  keep complaining that people did not understand the consequences because the leavers are simply in denial about it.

 

Secondly I invite you to dig back and look at what Cameron said before the referendum about the enormous cost of Britain leaving the EU and then look at Johnson saying about the money coming in from day one of the divorce.  But let's just say that Cameron did an assessment of the impact of leaving the EU.  Would that be with the UK staying in the single market and custom union or being outside of it?  You see at that point nobody knew about that and what approach the Brexit team would take.  His position was the UK should stay in the single market and customs union and that is not the current plan.  You can only do an assessment like this when you have a Brexit target like the one that May has had for more than a year now.  Therefore it was never an assessment that could have been when he was in office but one that Davis should have done as soon as he had his brief.

 

I totally understand why Davis and May haven't done the assessment because the results would show what a disaster Brexit will be with their approach. 

[Grouse]

10 hours ago, citybiker said:

 

I don’t see the situation as a mess rather than poor politics of today, agreed, PMTM really needs to get a grip but the Irish Government are simply doing its level best to detail the whole Brexit process, even the DUP have warned Leo & chums to wind their necks in.

Brexit negotiations are ongoing & challenges are expected, especially after 40 yrs of membership.

The NI border topic was always going to be extremely complex, although Eire/NI mutually agree to no border it’s the EU enforcing the it, so the trouble makers are at source.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What is your preferred solution, Simon?

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, citybiker said:

Research is freely available for you, it’s also been well documented within the MSM.

Border T&C’s are applicable where necessary.

The only people that are over complicating the NI/RoI border is Brussels.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

can agree with you on one point: the EU (and the Uk is still a member!) has failed to properly protect its external borders. The unregulated influx of refugees made the brexit result possible. The distinction between true war refugees and economic immigrants did not happen at all. No one understands why European politicians are so strongly promoting the Islamization of Europe. Unfortunately, then, the whole has shifted to the question of immigration from EU citizens. Is the Polish plumber,  cucumber tiller and nurse really the problem? in another point, I have to contradict. the eu has shown a lot of patience and has built many bridges for uk. if 65% of the ni population is for the remainding in the eu, why not search for them a Solution on that basis.

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Can somebody pls explain the logic of having no southern border in the EU, and yet they seem to need a border between the 2 parts of Ireland? Ships set sail from Italy scooping up every boat leaving Libya - I believe the people smugglers notify the so called "rescue ships" who race along and pick them up turning the occupants lose in Italy, that is even worse than a no southern border scenario. I just can't understand the logic at play. Anybody?

I don't see many people smugglers operating over the Irish border. The level of imports from Libya to the EU are, er, modest. What is your point?

[nausea]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Cameron didn't start it - look a bit further back. Reagan, and his fan-girl Maggie, sowed the seeds of the rampant inequality that is setting fire to society today. 

I will.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Any economic impact assessment should have been done and published before the referendum. Cameron's fault.

 

Davis's job was to negotiate the exit, which was always going to be difficult, especially after a 41 year association with the EU,

 

The bombardments of lies since the announcement of the referendum have come from both sides, certainly not least from remain.

 

 

Sorry, no. This latest admission that DD has done bugger all by way of Economic assessment is a killer blow. We should accept the status quo ante until competent people can produce a sensible analysis.

[dunroaming]

The main cause of the Northern Ireland problem is easy to see but difficult to resolve.  May committed to honouring the Good Friday Agreement and that involves keeping the single market and Customs union.  However May has said that in leaving the EU we will be leaving the single market and customs union.  There is no point in blaming the EU for this situation because it is not of their making. 

 

At that point the Prime Minister could have pushed through the proposals agreed by Ireland, the EU and her and that was the plan.  However the DUP has said they will not accept that. That wouldn't be too much of a problem except that without the DUP's support (that cost the UK taxpayer one billion pounds) the government won't be able to get anything passed by parliament and may indeed collapse.

 

Something has to give to move Brexit forward.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

What lies? Davis made it clear when the assessments were asked for that they didn't exist as such.

Dear god, can these people do no wrong? As an obvious acolyte you fatally damage your case. ?

[Grouse]

The DUP want lower corporation tax in NI to compete with Eire

 

The DUP wants to abolish flight ticket surges just like Eire

 

BUT, they want everything to be in lockstep with England.

 

Haha! I do hope TM boots them out....

[nausea]

Just sort it out by the end of the month; please? Yeah, I'm a lttle pissed off. Remainers and Brexiteers, who cares? I haven't met a Brexiteer yet who didn't care about the financial advantages, and I haven't meant a remoaner who was worried about sovereignty.

[dunroaming]

34 minutes ago, nausea said:

Just sort it out by the end of the month; please? Yeah, I'm a lttle pissed off. Remainers and Brexiteers, who cares? I haven't met a Brexiteer yet who didn't care about the financial advantages, and I haven't meant a remoaner who was worried about sovereignty.

Everyone wants what they consider to be the best for Britain.  We may all argue and bicker but in fact we all have the same theoretical goal.  As for sorting it out by the end of the month, I am afraid that is not going to happen.  IF they can agree to move to the next stage then they will start to negotiate the second phase in the new year and that will involve trade.  I would think that will take us at least a year and we will not know what deal is struck until then.  At that point it will go to the house to be voted on.  Then there will be at least two years of transition when we still be governed by the EU and then.....who knows? 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

First of all I think you mean remainers  keep complaining that people did not understand the consequences because the leavers are simply in denial about it.

 

Secondly I invite you to dig back and look at what Cameron said before the referendum about the enormous cost of Britain leaving the EU and then look at Johnson saying about the money coming in from day one of the divorce.  But let's just say that Cameron did an assessment of the impact of leaving the EU.  Would that be with the UK staying in the single market and custom union or being outside of it?  You see at that point nobody knew about that and what approach the Brexit team would take.  His position was the UK should stay in the single market and customs union and that is not the current plan.  You can only do an assessment like this when you have a Brexit target like the one that May has had for more than a year now.  Therefore it was never an assessment that could have been when he was in office but one that Davis should have done as soon as he had his brief.

 

I totally understand why Davis and May haven't done the assessment because the results would show what a disaster Brexit will be with their approach. 

 

First of all it only seems to be the remoaners that ever complain about the referendum voting capability, education, knowledge, intelligence and general mental fitness of certain groups that do not agree with their most humble opinions; I don't remember much in the way of similar complaints by leavers! Denial about what???

 

Second: whatever Cameron said does not amount to a formal economic risk assessment

 

Third:  let's just say that any assessment should be on the total impact of leaving the EU. 

 

Fourth: Cameron's position, then or now. is irrelevant. 

 

Fifth: you can do an assessment of anything!

 

Sixth: wrong. This is the UK's biggest move in over 40 years. Cameron should have had plans and contingencies in place. Cameron called it and has to be responsible for it in all aspects.

 

Seventh: wrong - you don't understand - see above.

Edited December 6, 2017 by nauseus

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/david-davis-brexit-impact-assessments-no-point-planning-a8094756.html

 

off with his head

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/david-davis-brexit-impact-assessments-no-point-planning-a8094756.html

 

off with his head

I think sword dabs to his shoulders is more apt, He must be knackered. I must telegraph HM before New Year. I bet he's ready for a drink too. 

 

Stay happy! 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by nauseus

[dunroaming]

26 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

First of all it only seems to be the remoaners that ever complain about the referendum voting capability, education, knowledge, intelligence and general mental fitness of certain groups that do not agree with their most humble opinions; I don't remember much in the way of similar complaints by leavers! Denial about what???

 

Second: whatever Cameron said does not amount to a formal economic risk assessment

 

Third:  let's just say that any assessment should be on the total impact of leaving the EU. 

 

Fourth: Cameron's position, then or now. is irrelevant. 

 

Fifth: you can do an assessment of anything!

 

Sixth: wrong. This is the UK's biggest move in over 40 years. Cameron should have had plans and contingencies in place. Cameron called it and has to be responsible for it in all aspects.

 

Seventh: wrong - you don't understand - see above.

It's getting g tedious but!

 

Denial about Brexit not being what they thought and we were all told by the Brexit boys in the campaign.  To still think that Brexit will be a success is denial of the reality.

 

Second:  Nobody said Cameron did any sort of formal economic risk assessment.  He couldn't for reasons I have stated.

Third:  Total impact can only be assessed when you have a formula for leaving, as I have already said.

 

Fourth: "Cameron's position, then or now. is irrelevant".  Totally agree, don't know why you brought Cameron into it in the first place.

 

Fifth:  Totally agree, you can once you are clear on the intentions which this lot clearly aren't.

 

Sixth: Bringing Cameron back in again? I agree that both sides should have had a plan but neither side did because nobody seriously thought that the leave voters would win.  But if you get real then you will see that there couldn't be a plan for a successful Brexit.  May becomes Prime Minister (a remainer) and appoints the leave campaigners to oversea Brexit.  They hadn't got a clue what to do and still haven't.

 

Seventh: Wrong?  I don't understand?  I think you should take a breath, don't you?  

[dunroaming]

43 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I think sword dabs to his shoulders is more apt, He must be knackered. I must telegraph HM before New Year. I bet he's ready for a drink too. 

 

Stay happy! 

 

 

 

 

Davis must be knackered, I know I would be.  Impossible job under impossible pressure with no cards to play.  I really feel for him.

 

Understandable that many MP's are calling this latest screw-up "a  total dereliction of duty" and calling for his resignation but please give the guy a break.  He cannot resign now because no one else would take his job on for all the tea in china.

 

Sorry to crash your post to Grouse!

Edited December 6, 2017 by dunroaming

[baboon]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Davis must be knackered, I know I would be.  Impossible job under impossible pressure with no cards to play.  I really feel for him.

 

Understandable that many MP's are calling this latest screw-up "a  total dereliction of duty" and calling for his resignation but please give the guy a break.  He cannot resign now because no one else would take his job on for all the tea in china.

 

Sorry to crash your post to Grouse!

But at least we could get a few tea party chimps from some zoo or other to continue negotiations from here on in? How could they actually do any worse?

[citybiker]

can agree with you on one point: the EU (and the Uk is still a member!) has failed to properly protect its external borders. The unregulated influx of refugees made the brexit result possible. The distinction between true war refugees and economic immigrants did not happen at all. No one understands why European politicians are so strongly promoting the Islamization of Europe. Unfortunately, then, the whole has shifted to the question of immigration from EU citizens. Is the Polish plumber,  cucumber tiller and nurse really the problem? in another point, I have to contradict. the eu has shown a lot of patience and has built many bridges for uk. if 65% of the ni population is for the remainding in the eu, why not search for them a Solution on that basis.

I concur, UK borders are poorly protected & that fault is blamed at consecutive governments, due to the influx of haulage going through UK ports it's become an easy target for people smuggling, and unfortunately UKBA require significant uplift in manpower (which I believe is promised). UK's smaller ports and harbours are barely monitored at all.

 

EU patience & built bridges, Can you define/narrow the focus?

 

The solution to NI is for the RoI to respect the mutual agreement in Belfast, yet Dublin have continued on its aggressive stance, both sides of Island of Ireland are capable of continuing in its current format (soft border) it's political bickering that's causing the issue.

 

 

[mention=231957]Grouse[/mention] technology is part of the NI border solution, tim.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ilostmypassword]

10 hours ago, citybiker said:

Research is freely available for you, it’s also been well documented within the MSM.

Border T&C’s are applicable where necessary.

The only people that are over complicating the NI/RoI border is Brussels.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No, the only non-EU countries that have open borders with the EU are those that are members of the Customs Union. It's ridiculous to even assert that there are countries not members of the Customs Union that enjoy free trade with the EU. Not even the Brexiter leaders - even back in the day when they were claiming that the UK could have free trade with the EU pointed to any countries that match your description. And it clearly the case that you've got nothing because otherwise it would be a simple thing to cite such nations instead of avoiding the issue with an empty claim of the information is out there somewhere.

[Scott]

Post removed.   No need to reply to members who are on suspension.  

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, dunroaming said:

It's getting g tedious but!

 

Denial about Brexit not being what they thought and we were all told by the Brexit boys in the campaign.  To still think that Brexit will be a success is denial of the reality.

 

Second:  Nobody said Cameron did any sort of formal economic risk assessment.  He couldn't for reasons I have stated.

Third:  Total impact can only be assessed when you have a formula for leaving, as I have already said.

 

Fourth: "Cameron's position, then or now. is irrelevant".  Totally agree, don't know why you brought Cameron into it in the first place.

 

Fifth:  Totally agree, you can once you are clear on the intentions which this lot clearly aren't.

 

Sixth: Bringing Cameron back in again? I agree that both sides should have had a plan but neither side did because nobody seriously thought that the leave voters would win.  But if you get real then you will see that there couldn't be a plan for a successful Brexit.  May becomes Prime Minister (a remainer) and appoints the leave campaigners to oversea Brexit.  They hadn't got a clue what to do and still haven't.

 

Seventh: Wrong?  I don't understand?  I think you should take a breath, don't you?  

You invite me to "dig back" and then tell me to take a breath" after not really reading what I've said!

 

Waste of timer.