Noisy bar in quiet neighbourhood, people moving out...

[JLCrab]

And once again this is an apartment with a landlord and for all his troubles the landlord might decide not to renew the lease.

Edited December 21, 2017 by JLCrab

[wildewillie89]

1 minute ago, sirmud63 said:

uummmm, that was my post about  my restaurant, and is not a minority area.  loi kroh rd to be precise.

one would be pretty nieve to think im the only one in the city to do this, i know a lot of bar owners that do the same .

as for the rest of your post ,yes , they are the correct chanels to go thru , but ,  corruption here runs very deep , as you know .

Has anyone actually complained about you though through proper channels? Or is it just more of a police throwing their weight around the area type thing? Police cannot guarantee you not being prosecuted, as if people do complain the Governor can give you the exact fine the police can.

Where I live the Mayor is ex-army, knows personally and is even more powerful than the actual army tribunal, but still the Tessaban officials under him fear the tribunal as if they haven't done proper investigations their position will be at risk. It is purely a matter of law as there are always plan b and c on option for the people complaining. Thailand is quite similar to Western countries with nuisance law I have found, but only lawyers or officials seem to know about it (why they live better lives I guess). 

Was why I then included the post about the trucks not paying taxes as they pay police to protect them. The police threatened my local Mayor, found out he was army and let it rest (whereas a trumped up corruption charge/ruin reputation probably would have been on the cards for taking them on). The city police boss also sometimes have people ring up and complain about our Mayor, to which the police respond, he is army and bigger than us. Some places are different, but it more comes down to people failing to go through the right channels. The OP has many options either way if he chooses to go down the path.

[Been there done that]

6 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Has anyone actually complained about you though through proper channels? Or is it just more of a police throwing their weight around the area type thing? Police cannot guarantee you not being prosecuted, as if people do complain the Governor can give you the exact fine the police can.

Where I live the Mayor is ex-army, knows personally and is even more powerful than the actual army tribunal, but still the Tessaban officials under him fear the tribunal as if they haven't done proper investigations their position will be at risk. It is purely a matter of law as there are always plan b and c on option for the people complaining. Thailand is quite similar to Western countries with nuisance law I have found, but only lawyers or officials seem to know about it (why they live better lives I guess). 

Was why I then included the post about the trucks not paying taxes as they pay police to protect them. The police threatened my local Mayor, found out he was army and let it rest (whereas a trumped up corruption charge/ruin reputation probably would have been on the cards for taking them on). The city police boss also sometimes have people ring up and complain about our Mayor, to which the police respond, he is army and bigger than us. Some places are different, but it more comes down to people failing to go through the right channels. The OP has many options either way if he chooses to go down the path.

If he pursues the matter he will follow the path of selfdestruction. 

[sirmud63]

4 minutes ago, Been there done that said:

If he pursues the matter he will follow the path of selfdestruction. 

yep , sadly you carnt win .

better to pack up and move on .

[wildewillie89]

I tend to agree. Pay them to keep them off your back, but just remember they cannot protect you like they say. As Public Health law has scope outside of the police. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 7:19 AM, wildewillie89 said:

Well if the proposed ex army bar owner has less connections than someone else, then that would help the OP then wouldn't it? Which was my point to begin with. So I say again, unless he has serious high ranking army friends, then being ex army is irrelevant if go down the proper process of doing something. 

The OP apparently being a farang probably has no connections, unless he married the police chief's daughter.

[gunderhill]

On 12/19/2017 at 12:42 AM, mat999 said:

It is Morakot Road in Santitham. It was confirmed that the family who moved out today were advised to leave their house by the police because they were complaining too much. I am going to try the "Contact police HQ in Bangkok" advice above before quitting. 

 

The "incredible" world of Thailand, run by mafia where only one things matters MONEY!

[wildewillie89]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The OP apparently being a farang probably has no connections, unless he married the police chief's daughter.

The thing about corruption in developing countries is that the governing body of the day disallows some to take the focus off others. So the current stance on no corruption is what is being used around the country in these tribunals. These tribunals are the only places local officials are scared of if they get called to them and they haven't done the proper investigations (other than courts). The Army tackles corruption at more local areas and I'm sure we can all guess why. A 'noisy bar in a quiet neighbourhood' is not something the Army are really interested in (as it is minute corruption) so there really is no need for the farang to have connections. The legal and relatively simple channels are all the connections he needs to overcome something like that - if it indeed is like he says it is. 

Don't understand the police reference. The police have no real relevance to a case like this as it is Public Health law. The police only come into it if the local officials/Mayor ask them to act on the fine (if they don't, then the Governor can). The problem most farang find themselves in is they complain to the police (who may be on the take) and wonder why nothing comes from it. Why? Would we complain about a noisy bar back home to the police? No, we complain to the municipality. The odd house party you would complain to the police. It is exactly the same in Thailand. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by wildewillie89

[JLCrab]

The only really important connection for the OP is with his landlord after he brings in all this ruckus after the landlord declined to take any action and the landlord then decides not to renew his lease on his rental apartment when it is next due for renewal.

[blubb]

Well, look for another home, alternatively you may try the Norway-style   

[mat999]

On 21/12/2017 at 8:24 AM, canopy said:

Why give up when help from the government is 4 button presses away? People who have used it have posted many positive experiences. I look forward to reading about yours.

 

Thai Government launches 1111 hotline to receive complaints from foreigners

 

Is that the army thing Willie was talking about? I called that number a month ago, they just gave me the local police number. 

[mat999]

On 21/12/2017 at 8:53 AM, JLCrab said:

If you read Post #1 it says that called the police have been called, the police have been visited, and the landlord has said that nothing can be done. Maybe the landlord wants that nothing be done.

 

So after going against the preference of the landlord, regardless of the results, the landlord might choose not to renew the lease when next due for renewal.

I was referring to my apartment landlord. The bar is across the street.

[mat999]

Update: called 1111 and this time asked for the Provincial Army Court. They told us the phone number but said much better to go in person at City Hall. My wife is going to visit with her Thai friend asap. 

 

Thank you Willie for giving me this option. Fingers crossed. 

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, mat999 said:

I was referring to my apartment landlord. The bar is across the street.

Right. YOUR lease is with the landlord. It is your right as a tenant to go to City Hall if that's what you so choose. It is HIS right as a landlord not to renew your lease.

Edited December 22, 2017 by JLCrab

[wildewillie89]

Yes, usually the tribunal is in the same area the Governor sits himself. 

 

Lease I don't think is relevant. If landlord decides not to renew because of this then it is not a landlord the OP would probably want to live under anyway. If the OP doesn't do anything, then he probably wouldn't want to renew his own lease, even if given the option, as the nuisance would still exist. The process doesn't take that long, so the OP isn't exactly wasting time, especially if he has a Mrs who can guide him through the process to make it that much smoother. 

 

In terms of time. Proper process is usually an initial complaint to Tessaban (can be anonymous). They will do their investigation. If the person calls up and isn't happy with the investigation, then they will fill out a complaints form at the tribunal and receive an appointment for a hearing which may take an hour. No real loss of time when considering what can possibly be achieved. 

[JLCrab]

The landlord has declined for whatever reason to take any action on the matter. So now he may have a tenant -- that whatever is the tenant's rights -- has decided to proceed without him. In doing so he may be creating all sorts of problems for the landlord with those in the neighborhood and with other buildings the landlord may manage or own. Great. That sure sounds like a place I would like to continue to live.

[Golden Triangle]

3 hours ago, JLCrab said:

The landlord has declined for whatever reason to take any action on the matter. So now he may have a tenant -- that whatever is the tenant's rights -- has decided to proceed without him. In doing so he may be creating all sorts of problems for the landlord with those in the neighborhood and with other buildings the landlord may manage or own. Great. That sure sounds like a place I would like to continue to live.

Throughout this entire thread you have repeatedly reminded me of a stuck record, if anyone is gonna lose out it will be the landlord who will end up having an empty apartment block attracting zero income, so I would have personally thought that it would be in the landlords best interests to resolve this problem, I hope the OP gets this problem sorted, if not all he has to do is move to another area, or if the issue persists I recommend waiting for the place to shut then set fire to it 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Golden Triangle

[JLCrab]

13 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

<snip>if anyone is gonna lose out it will be the landlord who will end up having an empty apartment block attracting zero income, so I would have personally thought that it would be in the landlords best interests to resolve this problem <snip2>

Well gee I guess the landlord has never thought of this. Maybe all his other tenants are people who like living there because they enjoy the party zone across the street.

[anon537687643]

One of the problems living in a country with hot climate! No incentive to stay indoors! The cold winter evenings have their pluses !


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[mat999]

My landlord doesnt know how to fix it. That's it. The end. He has no further involvement in this situation, no concern to me. Forget about him. This will probably be an anonymous complaint. Speculating about other parties and my lease is not something people need to worry about. Let's just get the noise fixed.

[JLCrab]

From Post  #18:

 

"BTW. this area has always been lively at night for over the 18 years I have stayed in CM"

[wildewillie89]

People will generally harp on about something irrelevant when they have nothing of actual value to add to the conversation.

[JLCrab]

5 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

People will generally harp on about something irrelevant when they have nothing of actual value to add to the conversation.

Oh I think you have added a lot of value and every thing you say makes sense as long as you live in some back-water Isaan Tambon but this is Meuang Chinag Mai.

[wildewillie89]

By that logic, the OP should be able to get an appointment in the next few days. 

[blubb]

On 12/22/2017 at 5:39 PM, JLCrab said:

Well gee I guess the landlord has never thought of this. Maybe all his other tenants are people who like living there because they enjoy the party zone across the street.

If there are party people around,  he/she/it may rent the rooms hourly based, more income than your cheap lease, more profit rocks always.            

[JLCrab]

From the reports it seems the landlord is going with the status quo. It is only the OP who wants to call out the cavalry.

[blubb]

 

[peergin]

On 12/20/2017 at 6:30 AM, wildewillie89 said:

Soon Dham Rong Tham.

 

ศูนย์ดำรงธรรม 

 

It is within the same ministry of Tessabans and police (hence why deals with small problems not big enough for courts). Courts in a separate ministry. 

Thank you!

[JLCrab]

On 12/22/2017 at 8:39 PM, wildewillie89 said:

By that logic, the OP should be able to get an appointment in the next few days. 

Bump @ 30 days.

[wildewillie89]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Bump @ 30 days.

From what he was saying he was wanting to go to the tribunal first. If he got an appointment quickly (that is if the tribunal isn't busy), then the tribunal would have to contact Tessaban and tell them to investigate the matter before a full hearing would occur. Which is why normal procedure is to go to Tessaban first, just like the West as my previous comment stated. Unfortunately here, most completely ignore common sense and go police.

 

Completely forgot about this. You really need to get out more if you're tracking something as small as this in your diary in the hope of being right lol.