2 hours ago, dadey said:

But surely there are some intelligent individuals in the country's government with the courage to speak up about their responsibilities to decrease the damage to their people's health due to smoking....

They were purged by the coup.

22 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

So keep smoking the cigarettes manufactured by the Thai Tobacco Monopoly, who make millions of baht for themselves, and the 'powers that be'. 

THat is probably the issue. They loose money. The doctor must have something to do with the TTM.

As an e-cigarette has indeed nicotine, but not the other 300 substances which causes many other diseases. 

There are additives in tobacco which make you more addicted then in e -cigarette. Besides other additives.

Lately heard they put old wasted tobacco in it and paper and to make it smooth extra additives again.

The big benefit ters are also the government, as they receive, Thailand i believe 90% tax on cigarettes !!

2 hours ago, dadey said:

But surely there are some intelligent individuals in the country's government with the courage to speak up about their responsibilities to decrease the damage to their people's health due to smoking....

It seems not.  Its incredible I know!

Thailand stands alongside countries such as Seychelles, and E.Timor in upholding a ban.  Nowhere is more draconian than Thailand, where use of a vape pen is reinforced with the threat of a 5 year prison sentence.  Even in places where there is a ban, it may not be enforced with any rigour.  Partly, the problem lies with the WHO which advised a world wide ban in 2014, citing lack of scientific evidence that they are safe- there is and cannot be definitive evidence for another 20 years or so, of course.

 

Suprised they haven't banned nicotine gum!

 

2 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

A: Is nicotine a carcinogenic? B: If that is so, are there quantities that can be ingested with minimal risk? Hypothetically speaking, if the answers were to A and B were yes and no, would the Vaping industry try to convince the public to the contrary?

What would be the Vaping equivalent of the Marlboro Man?

 

Hypothetical as you mention! 

 

Pointless debate.

36 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

Good point.

Because the ban in Thailand has nothing to do with health issues, and everything to do with vested financial interests.

On 18/12/2017 at 4:21 PM, hyku1147 said:

https://www.healthline.com/health/does-nicotine-cause-cancer

 

• In small doses, nicotine speeds up cell growth. In larger doses, it’s poisonous to cells.
• Nicotine kick-starts a process called epithelial-mesenchymal transition (EMT). EMT is one of the important steps in the path toward malignant cell growth.
• Nicotine decreases the tumor suppressor CHK2. This may allow nicotine to overcome one of the body’s natural defenses against cancer.
• Nicotine can abnormally speed up the growth of new cells. This has been shown in tumor cells in the breast, colon, and lung.
• Nicotine can lower the effectiveness of cancer treatment.

The article is an abstract from

Nicotine: Carcinogenicity and Effects on Response to Cancer Treatment – A Review

Tore Sanner^1,* and Tom K. Grimsrud²

 

^{The experiments are 'in vitro', which renders them theoretical only.}

On 12/18/2017 at 3:28 PM, webfact said:

The Public Health Ministry’s Disease Control Department has insisted that electronic cigarettes, or e-cigarettes, are hazardous to health

thailand, one of the best copy-artists in the entire world, somehow fails to copy the really positive things 

On 12/18/2017 at 3:28 PM, webfact said:

The Disease Control Department still insists that e-cigarettes are hazardous to health

these guys must be related to the leaders of the ministry of education;

they practice the same mindset;

1) determine what is positive, doable and makes sense

2) do the opposite

3) make some incredulous excuses

10 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4553893/

This is the exact same article I referenced.  It is purely a lab test which hypothesises that nicotine causes cancer on the basis that some cells were changed.  It is nothing else.  Such tests are referred to as 'in vitro'.

 

Nicotine is not regarded as carcinogenic in the amounts found in cigarettes or vapers, or patches, or gum.

What this really means is we have not figured out how to tax this yet.. please give use time.

 

On 12/18/2017 at 3:32 PM, canuckamuck said:

But go ahead and smoke tobacco.

directors are supposed to be able to think in the 'big picture'; this case raises the question of intelligence

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-us/cancer-news/press-release/2017-02-06-e-cigarettes-safer-than-smoking-says-long-term-study

 

Here is an 'in vivo' study which confirms the results of most mainstream studies.  It also highlights the need for proper regulation imo, since chemicals heated on over powerful coils could be toxic.

 

Of course, by regulating and allowing reputable high street shops to advise most problems are alleviated in UK. 

Edited December 20, 20178 yr by mommysboy

21 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

A: Is nicotine a carcinogenic? B: If that is so, are there quantities that can be ingested with minimal risk? Hypothetically speaking, if the answers were to A and B were yes and no, would the Vaping industry try to convince the public to the contrary?

What would be the Vaping equivalent of the Marlboro Man?

"Vapid Veronica" very apt. for Thailand.

100 percent,but keep drinking brooze plus lo-cal everyday.also smoke like a chimney.vaper smoking  is more harmful to you

A study in Europe a few years ago also claimed that vaping could immunize the body against certain antibiotics, but it was not validated 100% and the conclusions were sort of hushed up.

 

I guess the issue is not that regular cigarettes and tobacco are better as science knows that tobacco is bad - the issue here is that science seems to be unsure of the side effects of vaping which calls for a certain level of caution on e-cigs.

12 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

A study in Europe a few years ago also claimed that vaping could immunize the body against certain antibiotics, but it was not validated 100% and the conclusions were sort of hushed up.

 

I guess the issue is not that regular cigarettes and tobacco are better as science knows that tobacco is bad - the issue here is that science seems to be unsure of the side effects of vaping which calls for a certain level of caution on e-cigs.

Yes, just minimal caution is required.

 

One of many scare stories that are obviously without foundation, as the proof is almost certainly in the pudding.  We haven't heard of even one case of immuno-suppression.

 

I think the issue is more lack of absolute certainty!  Science has declared them safe, as much as one can at this stage.

 

So, you either run with something that is almost certainly safe and live with a small chance there may be unseen effects, or go with something that is proven 100% dangerous.  Obviously, it is a no brainer to most... not Thailand though.

This is just showing how rich companies (with monopoly) are trying to oppress other solutions, just like an imported beer costs more in Thailand than in Scandinavia (the most expensive countries otherwise in the world) and why local micro-breweries are banned. Sad. Try to go to Ho Chi Minh and visit the great micro-breweries, and in Thailand people are left with 2 brands that earns billions selling junk beer because of their monopoly and influential status

On 12/18/2017 at 4:06 PM, hyku1147 said:

https://www.livestrong.com/article/481405-niacin-nicotine/

From your link-

"3DChem.com explains that nicotine is an organic compound. This alkaloid has a molecular weight of 162.26 g/mol. It is synthesized in the roots of the tobacco plant and found concentrated in the leaves.

 

"Nicotine is produced in the roots of tobacco by the linking of compounds derived from nicotinic acid and putrescine. "

http://www.xxiicentury.com/technology/

 

NICOTINIC ACID 1929

http://www.orgsyn.org/demo.aspx?prep=cv1p0385

 

 

Nicotine vs. nicotinic acid (niacin).
December 17, 2013 by legiron    

"Can nicotine be turned into niacin? There are those who declare there is no relationship between the two, that it is a mere accident of nomenclature. Well, let’s see..."

"Take the five-atom ring off nicotine by breaking just one bond and replace it with a COOH group and you’re there. In biochemical terms, this is known as ‘a piece of piss’.
The two molecules are not unrelated. A simple oxidation reaction is all you need to turn nicotine into nicotinic acid. It’s not an accident of nomenclature at all.

Much as the Righteous would like to have us believe."
https://underdogsbiteupwards.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/nicotine-vs-nicotinic-acid-niacin/

Yes, so is driving in Thailand with drunk speeding, no licensed drivers.

And what are you doing about that  sweet FA

On 18/12/2017 at 3:32 PM, canuckamuck said:

But go ahead and smoke tobacco.

that's what they want. The tobacco multinationals are heavily pressing and bribing the country for enforce these nonsense regulations...seems clear to me.

this whole discussion stinks; thailand leadership is remarkable;

wrong people in the wrong jobs(read nepotism, cronyism, anything but meritocracy);

failed state in all but some official label