Thailand Suspends All High-level Meetings With Singapore

[freitag1]

the thai government is acting like kids. i lived in thailand for a year and realized that the country is just on a different level compared to the western world. no surprise if the education system is so bad. even business in thailand is mostly dealing with lazy people who just do what they are told to do without thinking about it.

but the girls and food are good.

[beammeup]

Isn't it amazing how the junta is so paranoid about Thaksin coming back that they wantongly block and censor an international news source while then turning around and picking a fight with a local economic power like Singapore. This shows complete madness and the unwillingness to even think about potential consequences of their actions.

At the beginning I thought the coup would actually make things better but the junta has proven by now beyond any reasonable doubt that they have completely lost control and they are by now in complete panic-mode.

Looks a lot like the endless circular arguments and manic actions of the North Korean junta to me, just in its early stages -- good luck, that the Thais are just not diligent enough engineers to ever successfully build a nuke... :-)

Maybe we could find out what and how much goods Thailand exports to Singapore and what and how much Thailand imports from Singapore. I don't know the answer, but it might give us an idea who depends more on whom or how important it is to love each other. To me Singapore looks like a fully airconditioned island with not much own resources other than brain that allows to make money with money.

I lived there for 2 years and I didnt see a lot of brain power. Everytime I here them speak there Singlish I get nausious, and freedom of the press? Dont make me laugh.

[Virgil]

Nah Mate,

You've got to get things into perspective here. You see, the Thai military poo-poo'd the Thaksin government. So Thaksin went to Singapore and said "those mean guys in the military poo-poo'd my government". Singapore said, "well, we will poo-poo their poo-poo's." Then, the Thai military got really upset with Singapore and "poo-poo'd them back for poo-pooing them for the poo-poo's they did to Thaksin."

So, in a nut shell, everyone's got the sh*ts here!

Virgil, Out!

How dare the institutions/people in Singapore do what they did. Shame on them! Thailand is the center of the universe, why won't they recognize this! I mean what is Singapore these days? A cheap copy of Bangkok, not?

Thailand rules!

[beammeup]

First everybody here on the ThaiVisa bord cry they want Thaksin away,

NOW he is not our Prime Minister anymore but the Chinese...sorry Singaporeans give him a platform to do his speaches against our government here. Will they give a platform to YOU normal civil people too??

No other thing is Thaksin in Thailand in the moment...he is a privateer, with a lot of money but still a private guy. He really should be happy that this goverment dont take further steps, freeze his accounts etc.

OH sorry I forget always he is a poor guy with only 60k on his account....so maybe they should freeze family accounts too. If he want not loose more face as he already have, he should try to live with the decisions our King and the ppl of Thailand made!!

I really have no idea what the most ppl in this bord here want. Thaksin was primeminister they always talked how bad he was. Now he isnt anymore and they talk like they want him back......

I dont think they are interested in what the King or the Thai people want or think. They just want to make a lot of noise. How did all the Archie Bunkers of the world end up in Thailand? Unfortunately they dont consider or perhaps care that they are insulting their hosts.

[beammeup]

the thai government is acting like kids. i lived in thailand for a year and realized that the country is just on a different level compared to the western world. no surprise if the education system is so bad. even business in thailand is mostly dealing with lazy people who just do what they are told to do without thinking about it.

but the girls and food are good.

You learned all that in a year? Great another expert.

[chiang mai]

the thai government is acting like kids. i lived in thailand for a year and realized that the country is just on a different level compared to the western world. no surprise if the education system is so bad. even business in thailand is mostly dealing with lazy people who just do what they are told to do without thinking about it.

but the girls and food are good.

You learned all that in a year? Great another expert.

Hey, I've been here for seven years but I learned that in three months!

[danmtl]

I think they are on another planet completely Thailand as far i am concern doesnt rules South East Asia and i sure hope Singapore doesnt give in to this childish rethoric .

The MILITARY are trying to scare the peoples of this country in a big fashion anyway they are canceling concert all over the country blocking website whom infridge the right to Democracy and freedom of the press.

I know for fact in Nong Khai one owner of the mall whom is rented in part by Tesco Lotus is instaling new gates and will make pay the peoples whom want to go shopping 10 baht to get in just to prevent bomb the rich get richer on the back of the poor peoples whom are trying to make hand meat and this with the consentment of the Governor.

I wonder whom is really behing the bomb in BKK at the first place and i guess we will never know Thailand is sinking slowly but surely to be another Burma but the real peoples of this country are worry about their lively hood i get many comments everydays here in Nong Khai from Thai national that they disagree with the whole thing and are getting day by day more conscient Taksin was not so bad after all at least their country was respected on the international front.

Pack your bag the worst is yet to come and we may have to live sooner than we think i know i am

DANMTL

[pap]

The question is was this the most effective way to deal with Singapore on this issue? I don't think so. Lots of subtle ways they could have made a point with teeth without making themselves look like the bad guy.

I dunno, Pap. I think Thailand did right by this suspension action. Only the jellybabies like Canada would run and hide in the corner if another country did this to them. This is international news and Thailand has to show a don't mess with us image, especially now. I am really shifting the mental sands to figure out why Singapore is doing this. They don't usually interfere with other country's political biz. What's the benefit to them? A telecom/satellite tie? Anti-muslim connection? Money and power is involved here. Singapore is stuck on a little piece of land and depends on Malaysia for food, water, manpower. And you know who runs Malaysia. Don't know the situation well enough to connect the dots.

Where is our erudite TV political professor?

Could be as simple as Thaksin and The Sing PM being buds. Could also be they wanted Thailand to lose a little face.

There is a time to say don't mess with me and a time to sit back and bide your time and make a point when you know you can win. So far they aren't winning. Nothing good is being said in the international news, the international financial circles or the international legal circles.

They haven't gone after Thaksin in the courts or asked for him to be extradited because many powerful people would have to take it on the chin with him. The Thai government has a dilema. Gut the country of leadership and get the people taking their unfair share or accept the corruptions on what they beleive will be lesser levels.

The problem with the last approach is it doesn't fix the problem. It postpones it and make it harder to deal with down the road because you have to learn who the corrupt guys are again later on because they have changed.

I don't envy them. They have dealt themselves a lousy hand. And they aren't playing it well.

[Ghost]

That rhetoric sure sounds like a military government to me. Could we be looking at another Burma? I have said in other posts that this is the first time in all the years I have lived here that I have been worried. The military throws out the constitution and deposes the democratically elected leader. I for one do not take this lightly.

Well, we've got a long way to go until we reach Burmese status. The CNS isn't keeping political prisoners under house arrest (yet) or conducting any military campaigns of ethnic cleansing against the hill tribes, the country still welcomes foreign visitors (but is making resident visas tougher to get) and welcomes foreign business investment -- whoops, cancel that last one.

What's bothered me most lately wasn't the way they occasionally pull the plug on TV media covering stories they don't like, it was the coverup of the bomb at Major Cineplex Ratchayothin. I live on a nearby soi, go to the gym and the cinema there, and sometimes eat there. Right after the bombings, I saw a post on this website listing Major as one of the locations where bombs exploded on NYE. But after I never heard anything about it in the news or saw it included on the list of bomb sites in the paper, I concluded that early post must have been wrong, based on rumor or word of mouth. I even had dinner at Major two days after the bombings.

Well! Turns out this website and its members were right and in the know (good work, people) and the media were wrong. There WAS a bomb at Major, but the owner of Major (not quite as rich as Taxhim, but still one of the wealthiest folks in Thailand) "persuaded" the police not to report it so he wouldn't lose business (no doubt a small monetary incentive was included in the "persuasion"). Days later, when the PM finally admitted that there were 9 bombs, not 8, he still wouldn't say where the 9th one occurred, saying only that it went off at an "undisclosed location." It's pretty good proof that money talks in the LOS when even the new, supposedly less corrupt PM will engage in a coverup to help out a wealthy friend . . . The news that the bomb went off at Major only made it to the public (for me, via the Bangkok Post) because "anonymous sources" within the police department leaked the information. Probably because they didn't get a share of the bribe . . .

[chiang mai]

When I worked there for six years, I was fascinated by the way Singapore "punches above its weight".

There was only four-and-a-half million of them, and I used to compare with my native West Yorkshire (which is Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, Halifax and Wakefield) and which has the same population and land size and shape.

But Thailand has 60 million and many, many times more land. (In fact, it has the land size of France). So it can manage OK, even punching well "below its weight".

Coming from the Land of 'Fur and Feather', I see the two like a game little cockerel and a great big turkey.

Singaporeans dash about wheeling and dealing to make money to buy next month's food and fuel.

Thais amble, but have enough rice in the moo baan's granaries to feed the village easily for the next year.

And don't forget Batley!

[khunjamespittman]

That rhetoric sure sounds like a military government to me. Could we be looking at another Burma? I have said in other posts that this is the first time in all the years I have lived here that I have been worried. The military throws out the constitution and deposes the democratically elected leader. I for one do not take this lightly.

Hmm, as much as I was in favor of getting rid of Toxin, the current admin is certainly out to stiffle any press that might be negative... hmmm, good point.

Another Burma? There is already one in the West. The people voted for a certain person, yet another person took the thrown. Oh, and the Patriot Act disallows people to talk bad about the government. :D

It is clearly obvious that you have never read the Patriot Act provisions and the its revisions. The Act's provisions are directed solely at tracking and prosecuting terrorists. Please try to contain your political predjudices.

[beammeup]

The question is was this the most effective way to deal with Singapore on this issue? I don't think so. Lots of subtle ways they could have made a point with teeth without making themselves look like the bad guy.

I dunno, Pap. I think Thailand did right by this suspension action. Only the jellybabies like Canada would run and hide in the corner if another country did this to them. This is international news and Thailand has to show a don't mess with us image, especially now. I am really shifting the mental sands to figure out why Singapore is doing this. They don't usually interfere with other country's political biz. What's the benefit to them? A telecom/satellite tie? Anti-muslim connection? Money and power is involved here. Singapore is stuck on a little piece of land and depends on Malaysia for food, water, manpower. And you know who runs Malaysia. Don't know the situation well enough to connect the dots.

Where is our erudite TV political professor?

Hey Jet I agree with most of what you have said except the part about Canada being Jellybabies. Are you refering to the softwood lumber deal or what ??? I know we usually have a spinless government but we are a proud and strong people (who dont like to be insulted).

[pap]

I really have no idea what the most ppl in this bord here want. Thaksin was primeminister they always talked how bad he was. Now he isnt anymore and they talk like they want him back......

I can't speak for others but bringing Thaksin back is not feasable in my mind. Just because he was corrupt does not mean he did not have many good ideas. He did both bad and good.

Many of his economic policies helped the country. On the other hand he used his position to better his situation at the expense of others. That is fine when you are a businessman if you can live with yourself. But as a person in a position of public trust you should not be doing that. Thats a dream world and most people accept that it happens. We only speak out when those people make themselves billionaires off the trust of others whose well being they were supposed to protect.

Just because a bad person was the one who had a great idea does not mean the idea wasn't great just as if a good person has a bad idea it is still a bad idea.

Good people screw up and bad people occassionally do things right.

Don't quit responding just because people may not agree with you. Also keep in mind that although you see a lot of complaining on this site most of the people on this site care about Thailand and want to see Thais and Thailand do well. When people don't care about something they tend to ignore it. People are upset because they want Thailand to do well and I for one don't beleive the path Thailand is on right now is a good one.

[John K]

On the broadcast, I vaguely remember reading that the media was not censored on Thaksin but if they decided to air him it may be much more difficult to renew their licences.

I can certainly see Thaksin has not lost his touch on pissing off people.

Let me paint a picture here, if I was a person of authority who endorsed the new government and gave them my blessings to rebuild what Thaksin had damaged or destroyed for his own self serving reasons. Then I saw Thaksin running around the globe meeting with various governments and acting like he was still PM, I most certainly would be insulted by Thaksin’s arrogance and his failure to recognize he has been removed. Then after his diplomatic passport had been removed he still continues. Add to that he is a suspected mastermind in a series of bombings in Bangkok, I would most certainly be concerned that he is in direct contact with various governments as his activities could be seen as a threat to national security.

[danmtl]

The question is was this the most effective way to deal with Singapore on this issue? I don't think so. Lots of subtle ways they could have made a point with teeth without making themselves look like the bad guy.

I dunno, Pap. I think Thailand did right by this suspension action. Only the jellybabies like Canada would run and hide in the corner if another country did this to them. This is international news and Thailand has to show a don't mess with us image, especially now. I am really shifting the mental sands to figure out why Singapore is doing this. They don't usually interfere with other country's political biz. What's the benefit to them? A telecom/satellite tie? Anti-muslim connection? Money and power is involved here. Singapore is stuck on a little piece of land and depends on Malaysia for food, water, manpower. And you know who runs Malaysia. Don't know the situation well enough to connect the dots.

Where is our erudite TV political professor?

Only the jellybabies like Canada would run and hide in the corner

Not sure were you are getting your fact about Canada Jet Gorgon .you must be on another planet also or good friend with Mr Bush.

The economic power in this region is Singapore and add no military coup unlike Thailand. Look at the peoples in power now on this fetish government all over their 60's except one they are laughing all the way to the bank in the expenses of the poor whom try to make hand meat

[OzMan_Bkk]

Just to expand on John K's remarks, if I was a high ranking government official and a deposed PM wanted to see me I would pause. I would think "how will this meeting, even a private one, look to the outside world".

Our deposed PM is having a great time wizzing around the world mouthing off to anyone who will listen. One can understand the press jumping on the bandwagon to get a story. What I don't understand is why authorities are giving this guy the time of day, given the touchy political situation in Thailand and the suspicion that the criminal/terrorist acts in Bangkok were linked to the situation.

In my view the actions of the Singapore official showed, at best, a lack of political sensitivity and, at worse, a complete arrogance. I think, up to now, the Thai government have shown restraint however I can understand their growing concern over the actions of our departed PM and countries that seem to be happy to host him.

Edited January 17, 2007 by OzMan_Bkk

[Scott]

Talk about a tempest in a tea pot. This very rich man has people who are willing to do business with him all over the world. He is no longer Prime Minister and there is no reason to ascribe to him power which he doesn't have.

Even the strongest wind blows itself out eventually.

[astral]

So now Thailand has sunk to the level of Malaysia,

censoring the news broadcasts................

[farang prince]

stop using singapore as a punching bag.

For God sake, Thaskin visited China, Hong Kong and Bali...

One more thing, if singapore decide to pull out the investment in Thailand, it's not a small thing...not in term of dollar value but in term of investment confidence. Already, some of the main FDI country like Japan and US, EU have review their investment plan in Thailand and most have decide to invest in Vietnam instead..

A very wrong move.

You bring up a very valid issue and that is how all of this plays to investor confidence. I don't think I need to recite a litany of dubious decisions and alarming events that have occurred over the past year in Thailand. All of this has already shaken investor confidence (certainly mine) and when that happens, they look elsewhere to place their investments. You don't have to look around very hard at other countries to recognize that the competition for investor capital is going to be very intense over the next decade.

In my view, the Thai government overreacted to Thaksin's media appearance and his visit to Singapore. They are very paranoid about the former Prime Minister. In is not in Thailand's long term interests to joust with every country that Thaksin visits. Rather, I think it is time that Thailand bring its top prosecutors and investigators together (and yes, Thailand actually has some good ones) to prepare formal charges against Thaksin. That would resolve this issue once and for all. Bring him back and put him on trial. Or forget about him.

And, for those people who blithely predict that Thailand will kill the telecommunications deal with Temasek/Shin, that would be the ultimate Pyrric victory...because it would kill the Thai stock market. There is nothing like nationalizing private businesses to chase everyone out of the market.

[jbowman1993]

If only Thai politicians would think before they act. To much of the reverse, all the time...

[Bruce1]

A big over reaction from LOS.

Think about it from the Singaporean viewpoint. They pay a lot of money to buy a telephone company under a deal which was completely legal at the time it was made, don't forget, and the identical structure was being used by many thousands of other companies . Even now, the law still hasn't actually changed yet, its only been talked about.

Instead of being welcomed as friendly foreign investors there is a hellava stink, resulting in a military coup. Temasek (Singaporean Govt.) is painted as the baddies, when all they did was a good business deal.

Even now, Thaksin still hasn't been charged with anything - its all vague allegations.

Thaksin's travelling on a valid passport and doesn't need a visa to enter Singapore. They had no reason to bar him. While he's there he has a meeting with an old friend, who happens to be the Deputy PM. Later he gives a media interview in which he says a few mildly uncomplimentary things (such as they're scaring away foreign investors, which is hardly news), and denies any intention of resuming a role in Thai politics.

The CNS's reaction to this is totally over the top. They've just made themselves look like fools.

Foreign investors, already rattled by the furore over Temasek, the bombings, the 30% withholding rule, the foreign ownership proposals, now have even more reason to stay clear of Thailand. Very silly and immature.

If the govt were stupid enough to cancel Shin Corp's licences over this, that woul just be yet another message to foreign investors to stay away from Thailand because they change the rules to rip you off. Surely they're not that stupid?

[Bottlerocket]

Since the coup, the military and the temporary government it installed have blamed Thaksin and his supporters for trying to cause unrest to destabilize the country. Thaksin has denied the allegations, for which no evidence has been produced.

Isn't a coup really the epitome of unrest and destabilization?

I think it's time to boycott UBC. We cancelled our UBC subscription yesterday. When asked why, we told them "it was due to their practice of censorship and suppression of free speech and information regarding the future political development of the country. We don't pay to be censored." I think it really went over their heads, but I can't give them my money anymore.

Viva Singapore!

[Martin]

for 'chiang mai', re post #102:

Speaking just for myself, I will never forget Batley.

An incompetent driver let his truck roll backwards into the front of my car at some traffic lights there, when I had had a hard day as a Supply Teacher in hel_l's eaten.

(Well, that was what it sounded like when the kids said it, though it was really Earlsheaton.)

But I think that, if the West Yorks Tourism Authority were inventing slogans to help tourists decide where to go, they might well decide that one should be: "Forgettable Batley".

No, I am not 'off topic'. There is a parallel.

A century ago, little Batley 'punched above its weight' and medium-sized Huddersfield 'punched a bit below its weight' in the West Riding.

But Batley lost its 'ahead of the pack' advantage in the heavy-woollens trade.

Now Huddersfield has a University, and Batley is an almost-unknown part of a district that is part of Kirklees (which is centred on Huddersfield).

To write the history of the future, just substitute 'in the future' for 'ago' and 'SE Asia' for 'West Riding' etc etc.

[Plus]

Think about it from the Singaporean viewpoint. They pay a lot of money to buy a telephone company under a deal which was completely legal at the time..

They also bought a national TV station, an airline, and a satellite company - all industries that are protected all around the world, and explicitly so in Thailand. Who is going to believe they knew nothing about it?

There's no way they would allow any foreign government to buy into any of their own strategic businesses, let alone using nominees to gain control of their media.

They thought they could take Thailand for the ride.

We cancelled our UBC subscription yesterday. When asked why, we told them "it was due to their practice of censorship and suppression of free speech and information regarding the future political development of the country. We don't pay to be censored." I think it really went over their heads, but I can't give them my money anymore.

Viva Singapore!

Viva Singapore??? It won't allow foreign media to interview their local, legitimate opposition leaders yet now it's portrayed as a bastion of media freedom. They let Thaksin to give THREE interviews (CNN, CNBC, and WSJ) and badmouth Thai government. They can't say he was a on a private visit anymore, it's "providing political stage" and they officially promised not to do that earlier.

Thaksin had certainly been prepared for the interviews. Both the questions and the answers were nearly identical and read from the same script. It was clearly arranged beforehand. If they Singapore says they knew nothing about interviews it would mean Thaksin had them again.

[John K]

Good point Plus. Bottom line is Thaksin continues to stir the pot.

In the bigger picture Thailand has sent a message loud and clear to every government around the world “Stay away from Thaksin!”

Expect Thaksin to play innocent and crank it up a notch or two in the coming days.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

Good point Plus. Bottom line is Thaksin continues to stir the pot.

In the bigger picture Thailand has sent a message loud and clear to every government around the world “Stay away from Thaksin!”

Expect Thaksin to play innocent and crank it up a notch or two in the coming days.

The world doesn't care what Thailand's dictators thinks. Its a micro market. Plus we have a free press.

[Crow Boy]

I lived there for 2 years and I didnt see a lot of brain power. Everytime I here them speak there Singlish I get nausious, and freedom of the press? Dont make me laugh.

So in the two years you lived here you can now speak Thai fluently, reasonably, or just like the majority of farung who can order (but not correctly) a Beer Chiang?

That will put the level of brain power on record where Thais are much more fluent speaking English than the vast majority of farung who remain ignorant of the language of the country in which they live.

Oh and by the way nausious (sic) is spelled nauseous

[andy1308]

I think the coverage that this 'censoring' has received, not just in Thailand but around the world, is far more than the original CNN interview would have got had it been aired freely. Actually, he made an identical English Language interview on one of the Chinese-based news stations that I get at my condo on Sunday - and that has seemingly been ignored.

Like it or not, when Thaksin speaks the press will want to hear what he has to say. Thailand made headlines around the world on September 19 and Thaksin was part of that. He is still news, and probably will be for a time yet.

[tectronic]

declare war on singapoore!

[pjallittle]

Hey Jet I agree with most of what you have said except the part about Canada being Jellybabies. Are you refering to the softwood lumber deal or what ??? I know we usually have a spinless government but we are a proud and strong people (who dont like to be insulted).

Unless, of course, they're doing the insulting, eh? Pride? Everyone's proud. Strong?Give me a huge break~~You need a reality check, strength is not one of our long suits. Resources, sure, loads of them. But that's not the subject here, is it?

Thailand has shot itself in the foot with their gesturing and has now created an even greater problem for themselves. Had they simply ignored Thaksin, it would have been a pebble in the road. But they decided to puff and posture, now they'll have to face the consequences.

Thailand already had a constitution before Thaksin was taken down. That same constitution had been, by law, been approved by the King. A military junta was not the only means of addressing what was perceived to be a problem. That's not how a democracy is supposed to work.

So it's no wonder that now you're dealing with censorship and have a bunch of old soldiers playing at running a country. There's your real tragedy, it's not Thaksin.