Trump, meeting with Republican leaders, says welfare reform may have to wait

[jackh]

14 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The American politicians and those who claim they are right or left have been able to brainwash the American public into thinking that any time the Government does something it must be Socialism or Communism.  This is the tactic that has been used for decades to keep people poor; the middle class from expanding and the wealthy becoming more wealthy as well as the politicians getting re-elected. You have been conned and lied to for decades and you believe it.

 

Why should Government exist if it has no function other than collecting taxes and funding defense ?  The American constitution  espoused the concept of the right to life; liberty and the pursuit of happiness as well as fairness and equity to all.

- Healthcare is a human right- the government should be providing it

-Education/Training is a necessity for life and to be able to achieve- the government needs to provide it.

-Assistance to the disabled and handicapped and yes the poor- Government assistance is mandatory.

-Provision of basic housing for the poor is a government function.

 

Why does every industrialized country in the World except America provide universal healthcare for its citizens. Even Thailand- provides it- and the World's largest economy cannot provide it?  The politicians and Big Insurance and Big Pharma will tell you it's socialism but every other industrialised country does it.  These countries do not have people dying or going broke because of lack of healthcare like America does.

 

Many countries provide free tuition to their citizens so they can go to College or technical training centers which helps put people into good paying jobs. Americans can get college loans but these are funded through the banking system and are paid back from the salaries of the graduate.  My own daughter just finished he Masters Degree and owes $202,000 which she will pay back  with interest over 20 years.  In America ,a University Education is essential but the cost is prohibitive. Why?  Banks are making nice interest off struggling graduates. Other countries students are getting free tuition and saving their money which will be invested back into the economy..Americans will continue to toil away trying to pay back loans to already wealthy banks.

 

Socialism?- I think not.  If Trump could actually change the above 2 things- America would become a great country.  It's not going to happen because of  greed and Trump is one of the greediest.

 

I already said I am not against people being wealthy- but I, like one of the posters said, am tired of being screwed over so the rich can get richer and the poor getting poorer. It's time for Americans to take back their country.

 

You have nicely summed up the Democrat/Socialist ideal. Everybody ELSE needs to provide you all these things without working for it. You are "entitled to it all just by the mere fact your an American". THAT thinking is what is destroying America.

 

Once you all realize that to achieve anything in your life rests with your own abilities and not a handout from others, America will be great again.

Govt needs to get out of the medical, educational and insurance business 100%. Allow free enterprise and competition to manage these things. The govt should monitor and make sure businesses are operating fairly and not price gouging. Other than that, it needs to allow people free choice to pay for and use whatever services they want.

 

The poor should receive govt assistance based on an equal and fair program of vetting those in need. These welfare benefits should be dispersed on a temporary basis only as dictated by the situation of the recipient. Penalties to this welfare should be imposed upon people who break the law or are drug users. Churches should all be taxed giving credits based on their viable charitable activities to help the poor or displaced. Same with any coporation involved with charity. That charity credit would be value  based on their work WITHIN the USA. Outside charity would be exempt from any govt tax credit. Educational grants for tuition would fall under the management of the institutions with the govt also giving tax credit based on their activity.

 

Anyone who wanders through life believing they are entitled to free services from the govt can continue to live with their parents and wear their snowflake hats while they play Xbox. Nuff said.

[F4UCorsair]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Those who support Trump simply refuse to accept the truth and continue to believe all the lies; half truths; cons that this man has spread.  I truly feel sorry for you- because the greatest lie and con job is directed right at you. He is doing nothing for you and will never do anything to help you. 

Trump is the greatest flim flam man ever to come along. Even the rest of the World can see it.You Can't see it because you would have to admit you vote for a nobody but no problem- everyone makes a mistake, As the year moves forward- you will see Trump melt down especially when his son is indicted and the special counsel comes for Trump himself.

 

You know Thaidream, it just may be that tough love is what's required.  If those who think they should be kept by the taxpayer have their 'assistance' reduced or withdrawn, they just may find that they can find a job?? 

 

I didn't make any mistake.   I'm not American.

 

You have inside info, so I suggest you offer yourself to the special counsel and spill your guts.   That will save the taxpayer a lot of money, that can be redistributed to the 'poor', stringing out this investigation.  We could have Trump impeached tomorrow......hold on!!  That's what many were saying a year ago, but now deny they were saying it.

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

You know Thaidream, it just may be that tough love is what's required.  If those who think they should be kept by the taxpayer have their 'assistance' reduced or withdrawn, they just may find that they can find a job?? 

 

I didn't make any mistake.   I'm not American.

 

You have inside info, so I suggest you offer yourself to the special counsel and spill your guts.   That will save the taxpayer a lot of money, that can be redistributed to the 'poor', stringing out this investigation.  We could have Trump impeached tomorrow......hold on!!  That's what many were saying a year ago, but now deny they were saying it.

Really? So an unemployment rate of 0 percent is possible?  Where on earth does this exist apart from a slave state like North Korea?

[jackh]

16 hours ago, wabothai said:

credible figures please

Look here

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444543/immigration-welfare-media-misleads-washington-post

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cashing-in-illegal-immigrants-get-1261-more-welfare-than-american-families-5692-vs-4431/article/2590744

Edited January 9, 2018 by jackh

[F4UCorsair]

17 hours ago, Thaidream said:

 

 

If a multimillionaire lost $200K per year to the tax man and these monies were sent as a credit back to a poor working person- it would change his life for the better. The millionaire would still be a millionaire- his life would not change.   I am not advocating a raise in taxes for anyone else- simply the 1 % of America who can afford it. 

 

 

 

 

I just don't understand, and never will, why people think that because somebody is wealthy he should give more to the government to waste/spend unwisely.

 

When I was as poor as a church mouse I felt the same way as I do now that I'm not poor, but decided when I was 14 that I would be wealthy, want for nothing and aspired to have all the things that wealth can bring.  That's where I am.   But why should I donate more of MY money to people who don't deserve it?  I'm not talking about genuinely disadvantaged people, e.g., disabled, for whom there should always be a social security safety net, but those who think the rest of us owe them a living.

 

Think about these numbers....a multimillionaire, say worth $5 Million,  generates an income of 5%, $250,000 pa.   He has a lifestyle that absorbs that money.   I know.   Take 200K out of it, and he's down $10,000 pa in income, or if his capital stays intact, his income is reduced to $50K.   That will affect his lifestyle.  Do it again the following year, and he's down $20K income, and on it goes.  Before you know it, you've drained the wealthy people, and that's like selling the farm....you can only do it once.

 

Even if his capital appreciates to $5.4 million over two years, he is still only getting income from $5 Million, unless he sold on the peak of a market run, and bought at the bottom, and that seldom/never happens.  Besides, why should he have to gamble to maintain his lifestyle.   He worked for it, and the others didn't.  He deserves it, they don't.

 

I recall the words of the late Maggie Thatcher, a former British Prime Minister .........the problem with socialism is that sooner or later you WILL run out of other people's money.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by F4UCorsair

[samran]

Of course he has to put welfare reform on hold.

 

Half the people who voted for him are on it....

[F4UCorsair]

Just now, samran said:

Of course he has to put welfare reform on hold.

 

Half the people who voted for him are on it....

So he'll be no worse off....the other half will love him for it.

[ilostmypassword]

15 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

So he'll be no worse off....the other half will love him for it.

So this other half will get to vote twice?

[Thaidream]

First of all- illegals do not get benefits- there is no Welfare for someone who has no Visa/Permit to enter America or while there.

 

I would agree that hard work and a dedication to a job/profession is what people need to do. America used to be a place where people who worked hard got ahead. My father and mother who had just a high school education worked their butts off to get a house and a car and assist myself and sister to get an education. My parents and probably yours were part of the greatest generation. After World War II- America built a great economy. Bankers were fair. Insurance  was priced so the average American could afford healthcare. Politicians actually did their jobs and protected the American citizen and worker. Unions were formed that protect American wages.

 

As the years went on- a group of very wealth people started to take over business enterprises ; banks decided they could make money by things like derivatives; securitization; selling bundled mortgages and other things that had no real intrinsic value. then big business decided that globalization was the way to go and companies moved offshore; manufacturing jobs went to where workers were paid 'slave' wages and America's cities declined.  All during this era the average American worker saw their wages decline or lost jobs or went bankrupt. America developed the attitude that greed was good- and politicians followed with laws that protected big business and went against the working person.  Healthcare and insurance became the most expensive in the World; higher education became so expensive that the only way to get a university degree was to borrow huge amounts of money and then become an indentured servant to the State paying back banks- which provided the money- but at higher than normal interest rates. 

Because of all of the above- a huge wealth disparity developed in which 1% of the population became hugely wealthy and 99% of the population saw their real income and opportunity decreased.  The great manufacturing and factory jobs that used to pay $30 per hour were replaced by call centers that paid minimum wage- except the top managers continued to get  nice salaries to keep the peons productive.

 

Fast forward to 2008- when the American financial industry melted down-  all because of the    massive greed generated by banks; fund managers; insurance companies; Big Pharma. The Government bailed them out and the economy was stabilized. Yet- no one went to jail- no one lost their CEO positions and the wealthy maintained their wealth. Millions of average Americans suffered- lost homes- lost cars- lost jobs. Many have never recovered. The politicians did nothing for them.

 

While all this was going on- Europeans; Japanese; Canadians; Thais; had universal healthcare- no one lost homes or died from lack of healthcare;  the same countries offered either free or low cost tuition for university or for technical training. America offered nothing.

 

Americans at this point realize something is wrong with its system- the middle class and the poor can't get ahead.  Along comes Donald Trump- saying he will make America great again. and spells out in no uncertain words what is wrong with America and that he will fix it and he is elected President.

 

While Trump pointed out the correct issues that America needs to change- his solutions are what the issue is.

- Trump would have you believe that the 11 million illegals are a threat to America- and wants to deport criminal aliens. Great- but Immigration is also deporting aliens who are not criminals and working in jobs that help the American economy. How many Americans are going to go into the field and pick fruit for minimum wage; pluck chickens in the processing plans; or work as laborers in the construction industry. If Trump would say I am going to create an Immigration law that legitimizes tax paying illegals; provides a worker Visa for those who want to enter America to work and completely reform a broken system- I would support him.  He has not done it because he has a mindset that all Hispanics are thieves and all illegals are potential rapists.

 

-Obama care- Trump wants to replace it but with what- the last bill he tried to enact would have driven millions more off the healthcare roles and provided big Insurance and Big Pharma with already inflated income.  American healthcare is the most expensive in the World.  The cost needs to be driven down.  Every other industrialized country in the World has universal healthcare . How do they do it and America with the largest economy in the World not be able to do it.  All of these countries have a single payer system-  which makes healthcare cheaper; available to everyone and works.  No one in Norway; the UK; Canada or Japan is dying due to lack of healthcare or losing their homes because they can't pay the hospital bill.  Only Americans are having this problem. Americans will continue to die without healthcare because the politicians and big business have brainwashed the American public into believing all the rest of the World is wrong- only America is right.

 

There are so many more issues I could comments regarding what Trump wants to do and what needs to be done. As I said Trump wants to fix the things that are wrong with America- but he is wrong on the causes of the problem as well as the solutions.  Government control of things like healthcare and education is not Socialism- that is what Government exists for, If Government can't even provide for our basic nee- why do we need them?

 

I want an America that will give my  daughter and  my grandchildren a chance to succeed  by working hard and being treated fairly with a chance to have a secure life; a prosperous life and a chance to rise to the top. Trump's solutions do not even come close to achieving this. Neither did  Hillary Clinton's and unfortunately most politicians are the same. 

 

Until America gets a President who stops pandering to the wealthy; the military industrial complex; the Harvard elite and truly listens to the average person- nothing will ever change.I don't know who that person it but I know for sure it isn't Donald Trump.

 

 

 

[Thaidream]

If a person is already retired and has no income from wages- I am not advocating taking $200K per year ad infinitum, I am advocating a tax system which taxes the wealthy at rates that generate income so the government can provided a rebate- a credit to the poor to lift them out of poverty and give them a chance to succeed. Today- with education costing a huge amount;  a lack of high paying jobs; and healthcare -the highest in the World- there is a very slim chance of someone lifting themselves out of the low class and into the 1%.

 

There was a time when I thought just like the Trump supporters- just get rid of the illegals and the jobs will be there; just go out and get a job and save your money- you will get ahead; just go to college- you will get a better job.

 

When I was 17 years old- and I wanted to quit high school and go to work- my father  forced me to go pick strawberries in the fields of Ohio. Up at 5 am and riding with illegals to the fields. We worked until sun down. I was the only anglo there- everyone else spoke Spanish and worked as if their lives depended on it- because it did.  We were paid 7 cents per bushel so to make any money you had to be fast.  I was the slowest. It was backbreaking work and after 3 months of it- I was so happy to go back to high school and promised myself I would study hard and hopefully never have to work in the fields again.  I never forgot the people though-they were good, honest people who just wanted to live.

 

During the era of the 50s and 60s- and into the 70s- one could work hard and get ahead. I worked hard- made a good income- saved  a lot and then lost most of  due to a catastrophic illness . Even insurance runs out  .

That is not the case anymore.  You can work hard and possibly stay level and survive. You cannot get ahead unless your are lucky; extremely talented and have the right connections.  The $30 per hour jobs in manufacturing; assembly lines and auto parts factories have been replaced by $10 an hour call center jobs.  These jobs cannot sustain Americans.  

 

The problem that needs to be solved is how can the poor and lower middle class who are working as hard as can be be put on an upward track and make the type of income that can pay for healthcare; college; a home; cars and other necessities. The only way is for the Government to perform its basic functions of providing healthcare; education and low cost loans to its citizens and to pay for this a tax system which redistributes some of the wealth away from wealth business and wealthy individuals. 

It's fairness and equity- but to buy into it you have to believe that most people are doing the best they can. They are not lazy- but the system is shutting them out for success.

 

The majority of the Trump supporters and those of us who don't like Trump want the same end. The debate is how to get to the best result for our families and for our country.

 

 

[F4UCorsair]

I hear all you say Thaidream, but I have difficulty with you advocating taking more from the wealthy to give to others, but you also want your kids treated fairly.  What's fair about penalizing people for showing initiative and enterprise??

 

 Your posts, in part       

 

The only way is for the Government to perform its basic functions of providing healthcare; education and low cost loans to its citizens and to pay for this a tax system which redistributes some of the wealth away from wealth business and wealthy individuals. 

It's fairness and equity- but to buy into it you have to believe that most people are doing the best they can. They are not lazy- but the system is shutting them out for success.

 

I want an America that will give my  daughter and  my grandchildren a chance to succeed  by working hard and being treated fairly with a chance to have a secure life; a prosperous life and a chance to rise to the top. 

 

I see the gross inconsistency of you wanting the rich taxed, but your family being treated fairly.   There is NO fairness in taking a disproportionate amount from the rich to give to the poor.

 

 

[samran]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

So this other half will get to vote twice?

Don’t be silly. 

 

You know it’s only illegal immigrants and democrats who vote multiple times.

 

These other half - well off Republicans - are so disadvantaged it is not funny. 

[samran]

8 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

I hear all you say Thaidream, but I have difficulty with you advocating taking more from the wealthy to give to others, but you also want your kids treated fairly.  What's fair about penalizing people for showing initiative and enterprise??

 

 Your posts, in part       

 

The only way is for the Government to perform its basic functions of providing healthcare; education and low cost loans to its citizens and to pay for this a tax system which redistributes some of the wealth away from wealth business and wealthy individuals. 

It's fairness and equity- but to buy into it you have to believe that most people are doing the best they can. They are not lazy- but the system is shutting them out for success.

 

I want an America that will give my  daughter and  my grandchildren a chance to succeed  by working hard and being treated fairly with a chance to have a secure life; a prosperous life and a chance to rise to the top. 

 

I see the gross inconsistency of you wanting the rich taxed, but your family being treated fairly.   There is NO fairness in taking a disproportionate amount from the rich to give to the poor.

 

 

Economics 101. The marginal utility of anything decreases the more you have of it. Same goes for money. 

 

It is the basis of progresive tax systems. 

 

Taxing your millionth dollar at the same rate as somones ten thousandth dollar is inherently unfair to the lower income earner. 

[F4UCorsair]

Just now, samran said:

Economics 101. The marginal utility of anything decreases the more you have of it. Same goes for money. 

 

It is the basis of progresive tax systems. 

 

Taxing your millionth dollar at the same rate as somones ten thousandth dollar is inherently unfair to the lower income earner. 

 

Economics text book stuff.  It applies essentially to goods and services and you've extended/bent the definition to include money.

 

My view is that it's the basis of regressive tax systems.  Take Hong Kong, 15% flat, everybody pays, no deductions, and it's so little that nobody bothers trying to avoid it.

 

Just as taxing me at 51.5% (with NOTHING in return) is inherently unfair when somebody earning a tenth of what I earn pays NO tax, but is the recipient of a whole range of government benefits.

[mikebike]

3 hours ago, jackh said:

Look here

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444543/immigration-welfare-media-misleads-washington-post

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cashing-in-illegal-immigrants-get-1261-more-welfare-than-american-families-5692-vs-4431/article/2590744

Nice try, but I would like to see data from a source a wee bit less biased than the Center for Immigration Studies whose stated mission is:  " that [it] favors far lower immigration numbers and produces research to further those views." 

[Thaidream]

It is completely just- you were in a position to make millions- someone who pays no tax makes a wage that is so low they could not exist if they had to pay any tax.

I might agree with you if every person had the same opportunity you have had; the same connections and the same ability to get wealthy.  But the truth is that this is not the case. If you and other wealthy Americans have to pay an extra amount in taxes to ensure that the rest of Americans can enjoy a nice life so be it- your remaining millions will still buy you more than the rest of the American population will  have and possibly allow someone else to attain wealth.

I would agree that right now the Us Government is taking your money and mine also and we are getting little in return and none of it is filtering down to those who need it.  Much of it is being spent on weapons of war or  fat salaries of politicians who want to keep the gravy train going.

That is why nothing will change until we get someone elected President who really takes the step to change our broken system. You won't miss the money if you already have millions. How many houses do you need or cars to drive?

[simple1]

9 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Lets send them our 10 plus million illegals to take care of. And, please don't tell us they receive no benefits.

Five immigration myths debunked

 

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/index.html

[simple1]

3 hours ago, jackh said:

Look here

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444543/immigration-welfare-media-misleads-washington-post

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cashing-in-illegal-immigrants-get-1261-more-welfare-than-american-families-5692-vs-4431/article/2590744

From one of your links - "As with Americans receiving benefits such as food stamps and cash, much of the welfare to immigrants supplements their low wage jobs" - think that through, why are US workers being systematically exploited by US employers and subsidised by the State.

[mike324]

22 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

No, history has shown that tax policy and money is an extremely complicated business with so many moving parts its almost impossible to pin one single thing (like you're trying to do with tax cuts) to income inequality. No matter what you do, you will be screwing someone. 

 

History HAS shown that tax cuts DO stimulate the economy, and that DOES create jobs and wealth, but other factors play into how long that goes on for. 

We are talking about corporate tax cuts here buddy, not just any tax cut. Yes tax cuts do stimulate the economy, as I have said before some do benefit for it, even benefit from corporate tax cuts. But history HAS shown that it does not benefit the low-middle income which Trumps keeps on claiming. That is my point. On top of that majority of the companies don't even pay the 35% tax bracket to begin with. 

 

Creating jobs, how much more? Just because it creates jobs doesn't mean the whole policy is good. It widens the wealth gap between the rich and poor. Any policy has pros and cons, you are just focus on the pros because Trump said so.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by mike324

[samran]

34 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

Economics text book stuff.  It applies essentially to goods and services and you've extended/bent the definition to include money.

 

My view is that it's the basis of regressive tax systems.  Take Hong Kong, 15% flat, everybody pays, no deductions, and it's so little that nobody bothers trying to avoid it.

 

Just as taxing me at 51.5% (with NOTHING in return) is inherently unfair when somebody earning a tenth of what I earn pays NO tax, but is the recipient of a whole range of government benefits.

 

It is indeed basic economics. Hard to dispute as well. Just because it is one of the first things you learn, doesn't make it less real.

 

The HK example you give is a red herring. The tax rate progresses from 2-17% of income. They have profits tax (I know, I have a company there). On top of that, their biggest source of revenue is stamp duty. Given the property market there, stamp duty effectively subsidises the low income tax rate.

 

And as anyone would tell you, stamp duty is about one of the most unfair taxes about.

 

So you are relying on an unfair tax to support your supposed income tax nirvana.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

First of all- illegals do not get benefits- there is no Welfare for someone who has no Visa/Permit to enter America or while there.

See you lost me with your opening sentence. 

 

While its true that they are ineligible for welfare, they do, in fact, benefit and draw welfare. Through fraud, identity theft, Social Security Theft, public schooling, hospital bills etc.. 

 

Bottom line they cost more money than they pay in. People debate this point until they are blue in the face, but thats the fact of the matter. We are talking BILLIONS AND BILLIONS a year. 

 

End of the day, those billions should be going to the American people. You of all people should be all for that. End illegal immigrant benefits, chain migration, and sanctuary cities, and give those funds to people below the poverty line, you know, where they should be going. 

 

 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

How many houses do you need or cars to drive?

 

When questions like this are answered by the government, then we're all f**ked. 

 

 

[Thaidream]

I have no problem with Illegal immigrants who are drawing benefits  , which is against the law, and the Americans who supply the benefits from being arrested. Chain migration should also be controlled.  As far as sanctuary cities- neither the state nor local communities should be forced to enforce Immigration laws.  However, if an illegal is arrested and convicted of a felony- then Immigration should be notified.

 

Actually,  most illegals do not draw any benefits because they want to stay under the radar. Most work at jobs that Americans won't do-  picking fruit and vegetables in the fields; processing plants for chick and port and day laborers. Thye get paid minimum wage or sometimes below because greedy owners want to exploit them. Those owners that do pay minimum wage do take out the Federal, Local and Social Security withholding and these people never get any of that money back. 

 

If America deported every illegal- agricultural prices would rise considerably as well as construction costs.  It is common knowledge that these people fill needed positions. Trump is going after the wrong people. He is not concentrating on illegals who commit crimes and should be deported. He is forcing the Immigration department to go after law abiding; working illegals who pay taxes. Continuing to do this will cause production to go down and raise prices.

Trump needs to go after Congress and force them to come up with an Immigration bill that will legitimize the law abiding illegals; make a provision for temporary immigrant labor and Visas for more permanent labor.  America was built on immigration.

 

In addition, spending almost $20 Billion on a border wall is a waste of money and will serve no real purpose and then asserting  Mexico will pay for it- is never going to happen.  How about taking that $20 Billion and using it to pay Healthcare costs for Senior citizens who struggle to find the money to see a doctor and buy medicines because the cost is so high.

 

 

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

spending almost $20 Billion on a border wall is a waste of money

Actually only for first phase, total current cost in today's dollars estimated to be around $50billion

[Thaidream]

I am not asking the Government to determine how many cars and houses someone needs- I am asking a moral question for the American population to think about when it comes to helping those who need assistance.

The trouble with the American psyche is the-  I got mine... you get yours.... way of thinking. The Government loves this because they then use your tax dollars to buy more weapons;;;fund more military adventures overseas.... and give away billions to countries like  Israel and Egypt while Americans suffer in poverty or  go broke because they can't pay their hospital bills or afford insurance.

The old days are long gone when we could count on hard work; friendly companies and industry to reward us with a fair salary and a fair opportunity and a fair government to back us up.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Actually,  most illegals do not draw any benefits because they want to stay under the radar. Most work at jobs that Americans won't do-  picking fruit and vegetables in the fields; processing plants for chick and port and day laborers. Thye get paid minimum wage or sometimes below because greedy owners want to exploit them. Those owners that do pay minimum wage do take out the Federal, Local and Social Security withholding and these people never get any of that money back. 

 

Thats false. Have you ever been to florida? Restaurants, Lawn Care, Construction, legit businesses. They get hired using fake SS Numbers, and pay tax because they have to, then commit tax fraud to get most of that money back. Then go back to Mexico. Rinse and repeat. Now alot of these employers know this and because they can pay these people less than an American, they hire them. Its not their responsibility to check them out. Its a broken system that needs to be fixed. Those jobs WILL be filled with Americans if the pay motivates. Its a self fixing system as long as the playing field is controlled. 

 

 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

4 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Actually only for first phase, total current cost in today's dollars estimated to be around $50billion

 

The total cost of illegal immigrants is debatable, but $50 BILLION a year would be a really conservative number. Hardline organizations put it over $100 BILLION a year and pro-illegal immigrant .orgs have it more at $30 BILLION. 

 

So looking at it from that perspective, its pocket change. One year it could be paid for, and the resulting years can go back to the people in the form of welfare, healthcare, education etc. 

[Thaidream]

While I can certainly agree that many illegals may have purchased Social Security cards to show prospective Employers- there is a law called E-verify  which employers should be using. The reason they don't is they do not want to pay minimum wage and can exploit illegals.

 

If you read on of my posts- I states I actually worked one summer in the fields with illegals picking strawberries. Of the many out there- I was the only American (anglo) that did the job. All of the illegals simply wanted to feed their families. I saw no criminals or other.  The fact is that hardly an American wants to pick in the fields; wash dishes in a restaurant; do janitorial work; work in poultry processing and perform construction labor. it's hard work that pays minimum wage- if that- and the federal minimum wage is only $7.25 per hour.  Trump himself has argued before against any increase in minimum wage. Try raising a family on these type of jobs; paying for insurance and even getting a car loan.

 

The problem in American is not illegals- the problem is greedy companies moving America's manufacturing base offshore and replacing it with service jobs such as call centers which pay minimum wage. Trump said he was going to stop it- when?  How?   He can't and he knows it.

[Thaidream]

If Trump and the Congress really wanted to help Americans- he would go after Silicon Valley and the high tech companies which are using the special Visa category for high tech workers from such  countries like Pakistan and India.  These companies are bringing these people in legally but using this loophole in the Immigration law to fill jobs and not paying standard rates they would need to pay Americans.  There are literally tens of thousands of these people who have taken jobs from Americans.  Again- greedy companies not wanting to pay  Americans.

 

Why doesn't Trump stop this type of Immigration but only goes after laborers and dishwashers.?  Easy to figure out.  The High Tech industry is a multi billion dollar industry where CEOS and Top Management make millions of dollars in salary and billions in profit, Trump is a billionaire and he takes care of his colleagues  not the American people.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

4 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

While I can certainly agree that many illegals may have purchased Social Security cards to show prospective Employers

 

Man im trying to tell you all you have to do in most instances is make up a name and Social Security Number. Dont even need an actual card in your hand. They dont cross-check. It isnt mandatory, and Democrats are trying to make this kind of thing racist. 

 

8 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

If you read on of my posts- I states I actually worked one summer in the fields with illegals picking strawberries. Of the many out there- I was the only American (anglo) that did the job. All of the illegals simply wanted to feed their families. I saw no criminals or other.  The fact is that hardly an American wants to pick in the fields; wash dishes in a restaurant; do janitorial work; work in poultry processing and perform construction labor. it's hard work that pays minimum wage- if that- and the federal minimum wage is only $7.25 per hour.  Trump himself has argued before against any increase in minimum wage. Try raising a family on these type of jobs; paying for insurance and even getting a car loan.

 

Well its not like criminals have brands of their foreheads. 

 

If an American company cant find people to do a job for minimum wage, then they will have to raise their wages. Its as simple as that. The end product may cost more but again its a self solving problem. Instead of forcing employers to pay a certain minimum, let the market work itself. 

 

Besides, you dont just "Raise Minimum Wage" you have to raise most of the wages that the employer is paying. How the hell do you instantly pay 15/hour, and the people that have worked for a few years and are at 15/hr through commitment are instantaneously back at minimum wage. ALL wages have to raise to compensate. 

 

Really isnt even debatable from where I sit. Soooooooooo much money being spread around that should be going back to the actual people of the country.

 

The fact that people want to raise taxes instead of taking action on this issue is mind-boggling to me.