would an ampoeh divorce be reported to my home country

[soalbundy]

I haven't lived with my wife in Chiang Mai for 11 years,instead I live with my girlfriend and son in Isaan. For reasons that I wont go into now it may be advantageous to divorce my wife now using the ampoeh. I haven't considered doing this previously as if this were known in my home country it would reduce my pension considerably. My question, if I can get my wife to agree to an ampoeh divorce would this be reported by the Thais to my home country? It wouldn't as I understand it be considered as an official divorce by the German authorities or the British but once the wheels start rolling who knows what can happen so I would prefer it if they didn't know about it.

[Jip99]

A divorce in Thailand is as legally valid as a marriage is.

 

That was not your main question though.........................."no" the authorities in your home country would not be made aware of it.

[happylarry]

Of course its an official divorce. The ampho registers your marriage on the government network therefore when you divorce then they register your divorce on the government network. I dont know about the German authorities but I can certainly speak for the British authorities and they accept a Thai marriage and therefore a Thai divorce. I cant imagine why you would think otherwise.

Anyway having said all that I can hardly think that one single expat ( all due respect to yourself mate) is going to warrant an international exchange of information, so I would think you would be ok regards your pension. However you do realise you would then immediately be committing fraud and it could come back to bite you in the future.

If you divorce then why dont you marry your girlfriend and keep your pension that way......nice and legal......lol

HL

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

A divorce in Thailand is as legally valid as a marriage is.

 

That was not your main question though.........................."no" the authorities in your home country would not be made aware of it.

Thanks for your reply, I forgot to mention that we were married in Germany, the Thai embassy in Bonn I believe it was, was notified but we never received a Thai certificate of marriage but I suppose that could be done now.

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

Thanks for your reply, I forgot to mention that we were married in Germany, the Thai embassy in Bonn I believe it was, was notified but we never received a Thai certificate of marriage but I suppose that could be done now.

 

You 'should' be able to get one from ANY amphoe office.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, happylarry said:

Of course its an official divorce. The ampho registers your marriage on the government network therefore when you divorce then they register your divorce on the government network. I dont know about the German authorities but I can certainly speak for the British authorities and they accept a Thai marriage and therefore a Thai divorce. I cant imagine why you would think otherwise.

Anyway having said all that I can hardly think that one single expat ( all due respect to yourself mate) is going to warrant an international exchange of information, so I would think you would be ok regards your pension. However you do realise you would then immediately be committing fraud and it could come back to bite you in the future.

If you divorce then why dont you marry your girlfriend and keep your pension that way......nice and legal......lol

HL

That isn't the way things work in Germany, where we were married, they would need clarification of the division of the pension pot (which only they can do ) and would look to the fairness of any settlement before they would consider us divorced under German law. The division of the pension pot would be irrevocable and would make no difference if I married again.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 2:48 PM, soalbundy said:

Thanks for your reply, I forgot to mention that we were married in Germany, the Thai embassy in Bonn I believe it was, was notified but we never received a Thai certificate of marriage but I suppose that could be done now.

As I understand it you have a legal German marriage, but no legal Thai papers. IMO you can't get divorced in Thailand if you haven't been legally married in Thailand, and they require the papers and details of your marriage to divorce you here.

IMO to get divorced in Thailand you would first need to "get married" in Thailand. 

 

Anyway, by not living with your wife, not notifying the German authorities of seperation, and claiming a higher benefit than if single you are committing fraud. That may eventually come back to bite you severely on the backside.

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[soalbundy]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As I understand it you have a legal German marriage, but no legal Thai papers. IMO you can't get divorced in Thailand if you haven't been legally married in Thailand, and they require the papers and details of your marriage to divorce you here.

IMO to get divorced in Thailand you would first need to "get married" in Thailand. 

 

Anyway, by not living with your wife, not notifying the German authorities of seperation, and claiming a higher benefit than if single you are committing fraud. That may eventually come back to bite you severely on the backside.

 

Not really as I still support her and that is all that is required by the German authorities. If I left her without support,yes that would be fraud, I am obliged to support her at least to the amount extra that I get for being married, and she gets more than that.

As for legally married;- After my marriage in Germany it was legalized by the Thai embassy in Bonn but I just didn't get a Thai certificate issued but I have the marriage documents translated in Thai. I don't think that I will divorce but I wanted to know if the option was open and 'safe' 

[anfh]

I did not register my Thai marriage in the UK, and neither did I subsequently register the divorce in UK. 

Thai authorities will not contact your home country to register marriage, it is entirely up to you. 

[Formaleins]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 4:50 PM, soalbundy said:

Not really as I still support her and that is all that is required by the German authorities. If I left her without support,yes that would be fraud, I am obliged to support her at least to the amount extra that I get for being married, and she gets more than that.

As for legally married;- After my marriage in Germany it was legalized by the Thai embassy in Bonn but I just didn't get a Thai certificate issued but I have the marriage documents translated in Thai. I don't think that I will divorce but I wanted to know if the option was open and 'safe' 

When you get married in a Thai Embassy abroad you will receive a couple of documents, One document is in Thai and is like a long A4 paper, it will have a listing of all of your details in one column and all your wife's details alongside in another column. It goes as far as to denote the splitting of assets if you divorce etc. (It has a basic English translation on the front side and will be handwritten in Thai on the rear).

The second one is in Thai and English and is titled Certificate of Registration of Marriage, it very briefly lists you and your wife's manes and the marriage date.

If you don't have these I cannot understand how you were married in an Embassy. And if you DO have these documents, you cannot get the flowery edged certificates from the Amphur.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Formaleins

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Formaleins said:

When you get married in a Thai Embassy abroad you will receive a couple of documents, One document is in Thai and is like a long A4 paper, it will have a listing of all of your details in one column and all your wife's details alongside in another column. It goes as far as to denote the splitting of assets if you divorce etc. 

The second one is in Thai and English and is titled Certificate of Registration of Marriage, it very briefly lists you and your wife's manes and the marriage date.

If you don't have these I cannot understand how you were married in an Embassy. And if you DO have these documents, you cannot get the flowery edged certificates from the Amphur.

I wasn't married in an embassy,  registry office.

[blubb]

On 13.1.2018 at 2:48 PM, soalbundy said:

Thanks for your reply, I forgot to mention that we were married in Germany, the Thai embassy in Bonn I believe it was, was notified but we never received a Thai certificate of marriage but I suppose that could be done now.

The Thais doesn't report to the Germans, your are divorced now. Legally you need a translated and certified document about your divorce (as a German) with a lawyer you need to submit your divorce documents (if still both agree :) after-then your are registered as divorced in Germany    

[crazykopite]

Basically you are committing fraud or that is your intention . I know a Brit who was using a U.K. address whilst living in Thailand he had been doing it for a number of years . The end story was he got caught out as apparently the U.K. address he was using had an unexpected visitor who spoke with the tenant who then came clean about the situation . The Brit had his pension reduced to what it should of been and the money he obtained is being deducted from his pension every month along with interest he tells me it will take a number of years before it is cleared in the meantime he is suffering financial hardship but that’s his fault and no one else’s, at the end of the day you will get caught out .

[LukKrueng]

if I understand the op correctly, he was married in Germany by the German authorities and then notified the Thai authorities of his marriage via the embassy.

In that case I think divorce by the amphoe is not possible but can only be done by court procedure. Still, I think the court or the Thai authorities won't notify the Germans. It is your duty to do so, and many people do that last step only when they want to get married again

[CanuckThai]

You can get divorced and settle in any country.  Even better if both you are in the same country to finalize the paperwork.  Submitting the divorce documents to your home country, and when, is your decision.   

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Basically you are committing fraud or that is your intention . I know a Brit who was using a U.K. address whilst living in Thailand he had been doing it for a number of years . The end story was he got caught out as apparently the U.K. address he was using had an unexpected visitor who spoke with the tenant who then came clean about the situation . The Brit had his pension reduced to what it should of been and the money he obtained is being deducted from his pension every month along with interest he tells me it will take a number of years before it is cleared in the meantime he is suffering financial hardship but that’s his fault and no one else’s, at the end of the day you will get caught out .

I can't see where I am committing fraud, I am merely inquiring. I am not divorced and I support my wife but she has caused me some financial grief in the past due to accidents so I would like to know my options. The situation at present is so that the house that I built for my wife is being transferred in name to my son (although she will still live there) so I am being reimbursed so to speak. The reason that I inquired at all is due to the law here, my son is the biological child of myself and my partner but because he was born while I am married, my wife is the legal mother which means there is a parent/child responsibility between the two. If my wife lives to a ripe old age after I am dead, the responsibility of looking after her falls to my son (thanks dad) I had the mistaken idea that I could free him of this responsibility if I divorced her but that is apparently not the case according to my lawyer, the inquiry is therefore no longer of use but I thank all of you for your input.

 

[Russell17au]

The way I read the OP is that you were married at a German registry office so your marriage is German and not Thai so I believe that because it is a German marriage then you will not be able to get a consensual divorce in Thailand, you are going to have to go through the Thai court system or return to Germany for the divorce. Consensual divorces are only for marriages performed and registered in Thailand

[Retiredandhappyhere]

On 1/13/2018 at 2:44 PM, Jip99 said:

A divorce in Thailand is as legally valid as a marriage is.

 

That was not your main question though.........................."no" the authorities in your home country would not be made aware of it.

Your main concern appears to be the loss of the additional pension which you receive because you are married.  However, if you divorce, you could presumable be accused of fraud by continuing to receive the additional (married man's) pension, as you are obliged to tell the authorities of the change in your circumstances.

 

This will become a major problem for many UK ex-pats from 2020, when the British Government implement their plan to cut the additional pension related to having a wife.   It is disgraceful that, whilst expecting the UK ex-pat to pay the same amount of Income Tax as he would if still living in the UK, whilst receiving no benefits other than the reduced pension (restricted to its starting level) they now plan the further cut from 2020.   

 

It is quite possible that this new measure will force many ex-pats to repatriate to the UK, which will cost the UK very much more in the many benefits they will be obliged to pay, not the least of which will be a further burden on the NHS, particularly as most of those returning will be retired and elderly.

 

 

[soalbundy]

4 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Your main concern appears to be the loss of the additional pension which you receive because you are married.  However, if you divorce, you could presumable be accused of fraud by continuing to receive the additional (married man's) pension, as you are obliged to tell the authorities of the change in your circumstances.

 

This will become a major problem for many UK ex-pats from 2020, when the British Government implement their plan to cut the additional pension related to having a wife.   It is disgraceful that, whilst expecting the UK ex-pat to pay the same amount of Income Tax as he would if still living in the UK, whilst receiving no benefits other than the reduced pension (restricted to its starting level) they now plan the further cut from 2020.   

 

It is quite possible that this new measure will force many ex-pats to repatriate to the UK, which will cost the UK very much more in the many benefits they will be obliged to pay, not the least of which will be a further burden on the NHS, particularly as most of those returning will be retired and elderly.

 

 

I don't even know how much extra one gets for being married (I only get the minimal pension from the UK as I didn't work there very long) I am not getting divorced because if I did I would lose around half of my main pension from Germany, they would divide up the pension pot between myself and my wife which would result in me leaving my son and having to go back to Europe, great, no abode and no money !!!

[soalbundy]

4 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Your main concern appears to be the loss of the additional pension which you receive because you are married.  However, if you divorce, you could presumable be accused of fraud by continuing to receive the additional (married man's) pension, as you are obliged to tell the authorities of the change in your circumstances.

 

This will become a major problem for many UK ex-pats from 2020, when the British Government implement their plan to cut the additional pension related to having a wife.   It is disgraceful that, whilst expecting the UK ex-pat to pay the same amount of Income Tax as he would if still living in the UK, whilst receiving no benefits other than the reduced pension (restricted to its starting level) they now plan the further cut from 2020.   

 

It is quite possible that this new measure will force many ex-pats to repatriate to the UK, which will cost the UK very much more in the many benefits they will be obliged to pay, not the least of which will be a further burden on the NHS, particularly as most of those returning will be retired and elderly.

 

 

This cut you are talking about wont affect people already getting a pension,they will be paid according to the old regime

[soalbundy]

18 hours ago, Russell17au said:

The way I read the OP is that you were married at a German registry office so your marriage is German and not Thai so I believe that because it is a German marriage then you will not be able to get a consensual divorce in Thailand, you are going to have to go through the Thai court system or return to Germany for the divorce. Consensual divorces are only for marriages performed and registered in Thailand

That is correct but I wont be doing it, it would cost me half my pension as I recently found out so the status quo remains. 

[MyFriend You]

On 1/13/2018 at 2:44 PM, Jip99 said:

A divorce in Thailand is as legally valid as a marriage is.

 

That was not your main question though.........................."no" the authorities in your home country would not be made aware of it.

i have had two divorces in Thailand since 1971, my home country was never told about any of them, the only way they knew was my income tax returns were different.  They never asked, I never told.

[BEVUP]

On 1/27/2018 at 6:13 PM, TunnelRat69 said:

i have had two divorces in Thailand since 1971, my home country was never told about any of them, the only way they knew was my income tax returns were different.  They never asked, I never told.

I never mention my wife ( to Auss ) when filling out documents, I state that I am single due to the fact my wife is not a resident of Auss & has no rights there 

That's why I married her here, because the only way for her to have any rights there would be to do a proper Visa