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[rooster59]

Airstrikes pound Syria's Afrin as Turkey launches 'Operation Olive Branch'

By Mert Ozkan and Ellen Francis

 

Turkey's Chief of the General Staff Hulusi Akar flanked by his top generals arrives for a meeting at the armed forces' headquarters in Ankara, Turkey January 20, 2018. Turkish Military/Handout via REUTERS

 

HASSA, Turkey/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Turkey opened a new front in Syria's nearly seven-year-old war on Saturday, launching airstrikes against a U.S.-backed Kurdish militia in Afrin province that raise the prospect of a further strain on relations between Ankara and Washington.

 

The operation, dubbed "Operation Olive Branch" by Ankara, pits Turkey against Kurdish fighters allied to the United States at a time when ties between Turkey and Washington - NATO allies and members of the coalition against Islamic State - appear dangerously close to a breaking point.

 

The strikes on the Syrian-Kurdish YPG militia hit some 108 targets, the Turkish military said. On land, the Turkey-backed Free Syrian Army rebels were also helping the operation in Afrin, a senior Turkish official said.

 

"The weakening of the region with artillery fire is under way. The first stage was carried out by aerial forces of the military and nearly all of the targets were destroyed," Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said.

 

From Sunday land forces would also carry out "necessary activities", depending on developments, he said.

 

The YPG said the strikes killed six civilians and three fighters. One of the fighters belonged to the YPG and two were from its all-female affiliate, YPG spokesman Birusk Hasaka said. The attacks also wounded 13 civilians, he said.

 

"We will defeat this aggression, like we have defeated other such assaults," the group said in a statement.

 

Differences over Syria policy have complicated Turkey's already difficult relationship with NATO ally the United States, which has backed the YPG, seeing it as an effective partner in the fight against Islamic State.

 

On Saturday, U.S. reaction to the strikes was cautious.

 

The Pentagon said the United States urged those involved to focus instead on the fight against Islamic State. A Pentagon official said: "We encourage all parties to avoid escalation and to focus on the most important task of defeating ISIS."

 

A U.S. State Department official said U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson had spoken to the Russian and Turkish foreign ministers, but gave no details on the calls.

 

WARPLANES, BUSES

 

Reuters cameramen in Hassa, near the Syria border, heard the sound of heavy bombardment and saw thick plumes of smoke rising from the Syrian side of the border. The warplanes appeared to be striking from the Turkish side, one of the cameramen said.

 

Tanks and buses filled with Turkish soldiers and pick-up trucks carrying members of the Turkey-backed Free Syrian Army made their way along a 15-km (nine mile) highway in Turkey towards the border, the cameraman said.

 

Villages in nearby towns came out to cheer them on, waving Turkish flags. "The best soldiers are our soldiers," some of the villagers shouted in support.

 

Warplanes pounded parts of Afrin city and villages nearby, while there were skirmishes with Turkish forces and their rebel allies at the edge of Afrin, a YPG official in the area said.

 

Authorities in the Afrin region say more than a million people live there, many displaced from other parts of Syria.

 

"Most of the wounded are civilians," said Hevi Mustafa, a top member of the civilian administration that governs Afrin. "There are clashes. There's artillery and shelling. Our units are fiercely responding to this occupation."

 

The attacks follow weeks of warnings against the YPG in Syria from President Tayyip Erdogan and his ministers. Turkey considers the YPG to be an extension of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), which has carried out a deadly, three-decade insurgency in Turkey's mainly Kurdish southeast.

 

Turkey has been particularly outraged by an announcement that the United States planned to train 30,000 personnel in parts of northeast Syria under the control of the YPG-spearheaded Syrian Democratic Forces.

 

"In a situation like this our expectations from everyone and especially from our allies is that they side with us, not with terrorists," Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said, appearing to refer to Washington.

 

The attacks could also complicate Turkey's push to improve its relationship with Russia. Moscow, the main backer of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, will demand in the United Nations that Turkey halt the operation, RIA news reported.

 

The Syrian government, which has threatened to shoot down Turkish planes, condemned the strikes. It called the attacks "brutal Turkish aggression on Afrin which is an intrinsic part of Syrian land", according to state media.

 

GROWING STRENGTH

 

The YPG's growing strength across large parts of northern Syria has alarmed Ankara, which fears the creation of an independent Kurdish state on its southern border. Syrian Kurdish leaders say they seek autonomy as part of Syria, not secession.

 

Turkish officials have said the operation is likely to continue toward Manbij, further east. They also said that thousands of pro-Turkey civilians had escaped the YPG-controlled areas in an attempt to reach Aleppo.

 

But the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a U.K-based monitoring organisation, said it was not true that people were fleeing en masse.

 

The Pentagon spokesman said the United States recognised Turkey's security concerns about the PKK, noting it was designed by Washington as a foreign terrorist organisation.

 

"We will destroy the terror corridor gradually as we did in Jarabulus and Al-Bab operations, starting from the west," Turkey's Erdogan said, referring to previous operations in Syria to push out Islamic State and check the YPG's advance.

 

Earlier on Saturday, the military said it hit shelters and hideouts used by the YPG and other Kurdish fighters, saying Kurdish militants had fired on Turkish positions inside Turkey.

 

But the U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces - which the YPG spearheads - accused Turkey of using cross-border shelling as a false pretext to launch its offensive in Syria.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-01-21

[isaanbanhou]

 

Turkey, the Nato ally that takes orders from Putin.

[Stargeezr]

The new Dictatorship of Turkey may find more touble than it wants.

[Happyman58]

War is like cancer It never knows its limits and when to stop spreading. Easy to start a war but harder to finish.

[ilostmypassword]

On 1/21/2018 at 7:29 AM, isaanbanhou said:

 

Turkey, the Nato ally that takes orders from Putin.

Whatever you may think of this Turkish offensive or of Kurdish aspirations, it has nothing to do with Putin giving orders to Turkey. Turkish opposition to the establishment of a Kurdish state or semi-state on its borders is in keeping with long standing Turkish policy.

[isaanbanhou]

Turkey says will coordinate with Russia on operation in Syria's Afrin

www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-russia/turkey-says-will-coordinate-with-russia-on-operation-in-syrias-afrin-idUSKBN1F714Q

 

NATO-member Turkey Finalizes Deal to Buy Advanced Russian S-400 Missile Systems

www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/turkey/russia-and-nato-member-turkey-finalize-s-400-deal-1.5630045

 

if not taking orders, certainly coordinating with Putin

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, isaanbanhou said:

Turkey says will coordinate with Russia on operation in Syria's Afrin

www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-russia/turkey-says-will-coordinate-with-russia-on-operation-in-syrias-afrin-idUSKBN1F714Q

 

NATO-member Turkey Finalizes Deal to Buy Advanced Russian S-400 Missile Systems

www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/turkey/russia-and-nato-member-turkey-finalize-s-400-deal-1.5630045

 

if not taking orders, certainly coordinating with Putin

Russia controlled the airspace of Afrin and had people on the ground. The Turks contacted them and asked them to get out of the way. Which the Russians did. There is nothing in this to suggest that the Turks are taking orders from Putin.

[isaanbanhou]

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Russia controlled the airspace of Afrin and had people on the ground. The Turks contacted them and asked them to get out of the way. Which the Russians did. There is nothing in this to suggest that the Turks are taking orders from Putin.

if not taking orders, certainly coordinating with Putin as I said in the post you quoted

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, isaanbanhou said:

if not taking orders, certainly coordinating with Putin as I said in the post you quoted

But it's not a matter of "If not taking orders...", the Turks weren't taking orders. Period.  And it wasn't even a step down from taking orders. It's more like the other way around. It was the Russians who acceded to the request of the Turks to withdraw their peacekeeping air and ground support in order for the Turks to launch their offensive. 

[isaanbanhou]

23 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

But it's not a matter of "If not taking orders...", the Turks weren't taking orders. Period.  And it wasn't even a step down from taking orders. It's more like the other way around. It was the Russians who acceded to the request of the Turks to withdraw their peacekeeping air and ground support in order for the Turks to launch their offensive. 

Russian peacekeepers?   Is that what Republican's call people that murder innocents and ally themselves with Assad?

 

Syria/Russia: Airstrikes, Siege Killing Civilians

Allow Urgent Aid into Besieged Eastern Ghouta and End Indiscriminate Attacks

 

(Beirut) – Syrian government and Russian forces have escalated their airstrikes on Eastern Ghouta, a suburb approximately 15 kilometers from the center of Syria’s capital Damascus, killing dozens of civilians in apparently unlawful attacks, Human Rights Watch said today. Syrian forces have tightened their siege of the enclave, held by anti-government armed groups, severely restricting humanitarian aid in violation of the laws of war and preventing civilians from leaving the area.

www.hrw.org/news/2017/12/22/syria/russia-airstrikes-siege-killing-civilians

Edited January 22, 2018 by isaanbanhou

[Dave67]

Troops on the ground now

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42765697

[ilostmypassword]

25 minutes ago, isaanbanhou said:

Russian peacekeepers?   Is that what Republican's call people that murder innocents and ally themselves with Assad?

 

Syria/Russia: Airstrikes, Siege Killing Civilians

Allow Urgent Aid into Besieged Eastern Ghouta and End Indiscriminate Attacks

 

(Beirut) – Syrian government and Russian forces have escalated their airstrikes on Eastern Ghouta, a suburb approximately 15 kilometers from the center of Syria’s capital Damascus, killing dozens of civilians in apparently unlawful attacks, Human Rights Watch said today. Syrian forces have tightened their siege of the enclave, held by anti-government armed groups, severely restricting humanitarian aid in violation of the laws of war and preventing civilians from leaving the area.

www.hrw.org/news/2017/12/22/syria/russia-airstrikes-siege-killing-civilians

It's what pretty much everyone has been calling the Russian forces assigned to Afrin. Please spare us your free-form indignation. This thread is about Afrin not Ghouta. 

[isaanbanhou]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

It's what pretty much everyone has been calling the Russian forces assigned to Afrin. Please spare us your free-form indignation. This thread is about Afrin not Ghouta. 

well then they must be the most vile and murderous peacekeepers in the history of mankind.  Ignore my posts if you haven t got the stomache to face reality.  Murderers in Ghouta become peacekeepers in Afrin.....ya right

Edited January 22, 2018 by isaanbanhou

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, isaanbanhou said:

well then they must be the most vile and murderous peacekeepers in the history of mankind.  Ignore my posts if you haven t got the stomache to face reality.  Murderers in Ghouta become peacekeepers in Afrin.....ya right

Any news reports of Russian troops or bombers committing atrocities in Afrin? Any complaints from the Kurds in Afrin about Russian atrocities. In other words, you've got nothing germane and nothing but rage to fuel your contention. I should amend this now to read "In other words, you've got nothing germane and nothing but rage and an emoji to fuel your contention.

Edited January 22, 2018 by ilostmypassword

[Grouse]

Turkey should be kicked out of NATO. We don't need to have monitoring facilities there and certainly don't need nuclear missiles placed on their territory. Turkey is no longer a secular state and certainly there is no congruence with Western culture. They supported ISIS until caught out.

 

The Kurds did most of the heavy lifting on the ground in Syria against ISIS. We should support them. I see nothing wrong with allowing them a corridor from "Kurdistan" to the Med. Could be a useful strategic ally in future. Will be interesting to see how the USA reward support!

[geriatrickid]

The dynamics of hate and oppression play out once again.

Turkey a former colonial occupier and oppressor of the Arab people seeks to regain its position and influence. Iran, another occupier and long time foe of Arab independence wishes to mute the Arabs. It's the same old tragedy from  the past 1000 years playing out once again. Westerners are deluded if they believe the  Arabs will sit back and allow the former colonial thieves, the Turks, attempt to resurrect the brutal Ottoman empire, aided and abetted by Shia Iran, Assad the Alawite ally, and the anti Islamic Russians. This is one of the reasons why the Saudi Arabians and Emirates are flexing their muscles. All that remains is for  Egypt to decide whether or not it wishes to  take back the role of Arab world protector, a role the Turks wish to take.

 

What will it take for the west to see Turkey for what it is? Another Armenian type genocide, except this time, with  Kurds? Turkey is one screwed up place and they are about to start something that will plague them much as the  extreme hatred that Armenians, Bulgarians, Romanians and Hungarians have for Turks. That's the legacy of violent wars and  failed empires.

 

[metisdead]

An off topic deflection has been removed as well as a reply. 

[Morch]

9 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The dynamics of hate and oppression play out once again.

Turkey a former colonial occupier and oppressor of the Arab people seeks to regain its position and influence. Iran, another occupier and long time foe of Arab independence wishes to mute the Arabs. It's the same old tragedy from  the past 1000 years playing out once again. Westerners are deluded if they believe the  Arabs will sit back and allow the former colonial thieves, the Turks, attempt to resurrect the brutal Ottoman empire, aided and abetted by Shia Iran, Assad the Alawite ally, and the anti Islamic Russians. This is one of the reasons why the Saudi Arabians and Emirates are flexing their muscles. All that remains is for  Egypt to decide whether or not it wishes to  take back the role of Arab world protector, a role the Turks wish to take.

 

What will it take for the west to see Turkey for what it is? Another Armenian type genocide, except this time, with  Kurds? Turkey is one screwed up place and they are about to start something that will plague them much as the  extreme hatred that Armenians, Bulgarians, Romanians and Hungarians have for Turks. That's the legacy of violent wars and  failed empires.

 

 

...aided and abetted by Shia Iran, Assad the Alawite ally, and the anti Islamic Russians.

 

Assad does not support Turkish incursions into Syrian territory, probably more so seeing as Turkey is also making use of Syrian rebel units. Not that Assad minds the Kurds getting a bit of a hiding, or the US being placed in a bind - so long as there's no permanent Turkish foothold in Syria.

 

Russia does not have an interest in a head on clash with Turkey over this - again, as long as the Turkish objectives are not permanent. If Erdogan gets out of line, Putin will yank the chain, one way or another. I think Russia will bring this to the UNSC. Similarly, Iran may support putting down the Kurds, but not into promoting Turkish regional ascendance.

 

[MajarTheLion]

"Operation Olive Branch" involves air strikes? That's rich.

[wabothai]

38 minutes ago, MajarTheLion said:

"Operation Olive Branch" involves air strikes? That's rich.

yeah, how dare they desecrate the "olive branche", shame on them.

[dexterm]

OK, so can someone tell me why the US is arming and supporting the Kurdish YPG against one of its own NATO allies, Turkey...the two antagonists in the OP?

 

US taxpayers are funding this. So what benefit do they get?

Edited January 22, 2018 by dexterm

[JemJem]

Human rights are not cared about much in international politics.

 

My guess sadly proved out to be correct. The superpowers have once again sold out the Kurds. I wonder what Erdogan offered the Russians in order for them to move out of the way.

 

Turkey nowadays is sadly in an atmosphere of militarism and hatred. Most of the Turkish mainstream media, which has been under Erdogan's control for a few years now, has horrible, militaristic headlines etc, glorifying this dirty war. And, lots of lies of course.

 

Don't think that all Turks approve of this war of Erdogan. But people like me are sadly in a tiny minority. I can tell you why even the main opposition (the so-called social democratic party CHP) and many of their supporters have chosen to lend support to Erdogan in this war. The main reason is the educational system. Turks, from a very young age, have been taught to show total obedience to the state and its various institutions. Also, there are a lot of lies and misrepresentations in the textbooks. Then it becomes very hard for most people to grasp the truth and also to develop certain principles even later in their lives.

 

There is the ethnicity factor (Turk versus Kurd); yes; but don't forget the ideological factor; I mean don't forget that YPG is a Marxist-Leninist group and Erdogan (and the heavy majority of Turks) is fiercely anti-leftist.

 

Not a single bullet had been fired from Afrin into Turkish territory. Yet, Erdogan chose to attack the people of Afrin. It is needless to say that many lives will be lost.

 

Shame on those, Turk and non-Turk, who support this dirty war. Shame on those who have continued to (and will probably continue to do so) make various deals, even military deals, with Erdogan. They include Merkel and May for example.

 

Good luck to the brave and innocent people of Afrin. Erdogan, the ones who have supported him, his jihadi and semi-jihadi proxies and the various governments which have supported or turned a blind eye to this dirty war, all have blood of the innocents in their hand.

Edited January 22, 2018 by JemJem

[Thorgal]

2 hours ago, dexterm said:

OK, so can someone tell me why the US is arming and supporting the Kurdish YPG against one of its own NATO allies, Turkey...the two antagonists in the OP?

 

US taxpayers are funding this. So what benefit do they get?

 

US (Pentagon) started to provide weapons, training and support to the YPG and was planning to recruit/keep/train a 30.000 YPG militia on the Turkish border region under the flag of the Syrian Democratic Forces.

 

The Syrian Democratic Forces were officially created by the US (Pentagon) to facilitate the regime change in Syria. But the 'rebel'-cause lost its popularity in Syria. Integration of the Kurdish YPG and huge weapons deliveries was not a smart move...

 

Turkey, on the other hand is supported by the US (White House) through NATO alliance. Turkish military is the 2nd largest of the NATO.

[Morch]

9 hours ago, JemJem said:

Human rights are not cared about much in international politics.

 

My guess sadly proved out to be correct. The superpowers have once again sold out the Kurds. I wonder what Erdogan offered the Russians in order for them to move out of the way.

 

Turkey nowadays is sadly in an atmosphere of militarism and hatred. Most of the Turkish mainstream media, which has been under Erdogan's control for a few years now, has horrible, militaristic headlines etc, glorifying this dirty war. And, lots of lies of course.

 

Don't think that all Turks approve of this war of Erdogan. But people like me are sadly in a tiny minority. I can tell you why even the main opposition (the so-called social democratic party CHP) and many of their supporters have chosen to lend support to Erdogan in this war. The main reason is the educational system. Turks, from a very young age, have been taught to show total obedience to the state and its various institutions. Also, there are a lot of lies and misrepresentations in the textbooks. Then it becomes very hard for most people to grasp the truth and also to develop certain principles even later in their lives.

 

There is the ethnicity factor (Turk versus Kurd); yes; but don't forget the ideological factor; I mean don't forget that YPG is a Marxist-Leninist group and Erdogan (and the heavy majority of Turks) is fiercely anti-leftist.

 

Not a single bullet had been fired from Afrin into Turkish territory. Yet, Erdogan chose to attack the people of Afrin. It is needless to say that many lives will be lost.

 

Shame on those, Turk and non-Turk, who support this dirty war. Shame on those who have continued to (and will probably continue to do so) make various deals, even military deals, with Erdogan. They include Merkel and May for example.

 

Good luck to the brave and innocent people of Afrin. Erdogan, the ones who have supported him, his jihadi and semi-jihadi proxies and the various governments which have supported or turned a blind eye to this dirty war, all have blood of the innocents in their hand.

 

The superpowers have once again sold out the Kurds.

 

How so? Was there a major change in US policy and ongoing support for the Kurds? And Russia wasn't exactly overly supportive of the Kurds anyway, not sure "sold out" applies.

 

Not a single bullet had been fired from Afrin into Turkish territory.

 

That is not correct.

 

 

 

 

[JemJem]

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The superpowers have once again sold out the Kurds.

 

How so? Was there a major change in US policy and ongoing support for the Kurds? And Russia wasn't exactly overly supportive of the Kurds anyway, not sure "sold out" applies.

 

Not a single bullet had been fired from Afrin into Turkish territory.

 

That is not correct.

 

 

 

 

Come on, you know very well that the Americans could have stopped (they still can but probably won't, not for some more days anyway) the Turkish attack into Afrin. Via one of various ways. The US still has leverage over Turkey.

 

As for Russians, their selling out is more obvious in this case. They had military presence but moved them out of the way just before the attack. The YPG has clearly indicated that the Russians let them down. Many Kurds in Europe have already demonstated in front of some Russian embassies/consulates.

 

And, yes, not a single bullet had been fired from Afrin into Turkish territory before the attack. YPG had been fighting with Turkey's proxies in Syria before; not with Turkey directly. If you want to believe Turkish propaganda though, you are free to do so.

 

And, please have a look at this :

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/democracy-post/wp/2018/01/22/were-trying-to-build-democracy-in-syria-so-why-is-turkey-attacking-us/?tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.66e98fc5655d

 

 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, JemJem said:

Come on, you know very well that the Americans could have stopped (they still can but probably won't, not for some more days anyway) the Turkish attack into Afrin. Via one of various ways. The US still has leverage over Turkey.

 

As for Russians, their selling out is more obvious in this case. They had military presence but moved them out of the way just before the attack. The YPG has clearly indicated that the Russians let them down. Many Kurds in Europe have already demonstated in front of some Russian embassies/consulates.

 

And, yes, not a single bullet had been fired from Afrin into Turkish territory before the attack. YPG had been fighting with Turkey's proxies in Syria before; not with Turkey directly. If you want to believe Turkish propaganda though, you are free to do so.

 

And, please have a look at this :

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/democracy-post/wp/2018/01/22/were-trying-to-build-democracy-in-syria-so-why-is-turkey-attacking-us/?tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.66e98fc5655d

 

 

 

The US leverage over Turkey is under some erosion for quite a while now. That it could simply order or sway Erdogan into doing something totally against declared policies, and while rubbing his nose at it, is unrealistic. Further, while it's catchy to go on about "the Kurds", in reality there are various groups involved, not all as palatable for the US to support, nor all reading from the same hymn book. If the US not looking for a direct conflict with Turkey amounts to "selling out the Kurds", then guess it's more a matter of unrealistic expectations.

 

Russia is not beholden to the Kurds, nor strongly allied with them. Like the US, Russia holds conflicting interests which it tries to balance - only the Kurds do not factor in these as much as in the US's case. The Russian ground forces in the area are not substantial, and once more - expecting that Russia will militarily confront Turkey on behalf of the Kurds is unrealistic.

 

I have no idea how you can substantiate that "not a single bullet" has been fired from the Afrin area into Turkey. Turkey's "proxies" are stationed on both sides of the border. Funny you should make such a blanket statement while going on about "propaganda". It is not that I support Erdogan, quite the opposite. That does not mean every claim raised by his rivals is true.