Origin of Thai people

[EricTh]

I found a great blog on origin of Thai people here.

 

http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.my/search/label/Thai

[mick220675]

Interesting link, so dose that mean that the Khmer speaking Thais are the original people of Siam?

[Ruffian Dick]

On 1/28/2018 at 5:20 PM, mick220675 said:

Interesting link, so dose that mean that the Khmer speaking Thais are the original people of Siam?

Well, it looks like Ayutthaya was a Khmer kingdom and yeah they were in southern Thailand first. :)

[Rotweiler]

"Thai" is actually a composite word -the Thai are composed of many ethnic groups.  The local inhabitants here are not Ayutthaya but rather La Na.  Very different.

[Stevo007]

Where

Sent from my SM-J700F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[canthai55]

This is the Chiang Mai forum, so ...

That answers where

[canthai55]

As always with the Colonial powers, some guy in a suit sat down with a map, drew a bunch of lines, and said this is this and that is that.

SFA to do with the ethnic makeup of the people either side of the line. SE Thailand, being close to Cambodia, leans that way. Northern people, being close to Burma and Laos, lean that way.

Saw a Documentary a few years ago, broke all races and cultures down to 4 blood lines via DNA sampling. Surprise Surprise - all from Africa.

So Hitler and the KKK are Black - what goes around comes around

Edited February 1, 2018 by canthai55

[EricTh]

On 1/29/2018 at 9:20 AM, mick220675 said:

Interesting link, so dose that mean that the Khmer speaking Thais are the original people of Siam?

 

Yes, Khmer are the real natives of Thailand, there are more articles in that blog that explains this. Click below.

 

http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.my/2017/06/ethnic-origin-of-cambodians.html

 

The Khmer in Thailand have been assimilated, most of them don't speak Khmer anymore.

Just like the Han Chinese in Thailand who can't speak Chinese anymore.

 

http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.my/2017/07/main-ethnicities-in-thailand.html

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by EricTh

[Ruffian Dick]

8 hours ago, canthai55 said:

As always with the Colonial powers, some guy in a suit sat down with a map, drew a bunch of lines, and said this is this and that is that.

So whose colony was Thailand?

Edited February 1, 2018 by Ruffian Dick

[canthai55]

5 hours ago, Ruffian Dick said:

So whose colony was Thailand?

Much later, the European colonial powers threatened in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but Thailand survived as the only Southeast Asian state to avoid European colonial rule because the French and the British decided it would be a neutral territory to avoid conflicts between their colonies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Thailand

[EricTh]

12 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Much later, the European colonial powers threatened in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but Thailand survived as the only Southeast Asian state to avoid European colonial rule because the French and the British decided it would be a neutral territory to avoid conflicts between their colonies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Thailand

 

Thailand did lose quite a bit of land to the French and British.

[canthai55]

12 hours ago, EricTh said:

Thailand did lose quite a bit of land to the French and British.

Of course. Colonial Powers were always thieves. Look at where Palestine was. Poof - gone at the whim of men in cut-away suits. B***ards

[simoh1490]

On 01/02/2018 at 5:01 PM, canthai55 said:

As always with the Colonial powers, some guy in a suit sat down with a map, drew a bunch of lines, and said this is this and that is that.

SFA to do with the ethnic makeup of the people either side of the line. SE Thailand, being close to Cambodia, leans that way. Northern people, being close to Burma and Laos, lean that way.

Saw a Documentary a few years ago, broke all races and cultures down to 4 blood lines via DNA sampling. Surprise Surprise - all from Africa.

So Hitler and the KKK are Black - what goes around comes around

One of the more credible theories on the history of creation and the evolution of man, describes a scenario where man evolved in a number of different locations simultaneously, a theory that is gaining significant traction since it provides viable answers to many unanswered questions. It's a theory however that is incompatible with many religions and does not answer why DNA studies identify a single source for all people. Candidate answers for the latter include our still limited understanding of DNA and the likelihood that the original building blocks for life here were provided from a single external source, aka a passing meteor et al, thus Hitler may not have been black at one time but we may all have been frogs once.

Edited February 3, 2018 by simoh1490

[cyberfarang]

DNA testing can only prove people are blood related going back only 3 or 4 generations and dating back about 25 generations then everyone is related.  Also DNA results and percentages can vary greatly according to which companies conduct the tests as they all use varying methods that will have varying results. This means that ancestral DNA testing is simply not accurate and the results should not be assumed as credible but merely a rough guide.

 

The only reliable means of tracing back ones family linage is via historic records that if lucky may get you back 1000 years, that I doubt they have in Thailand, then of course over that period there will be hundreds of direct ancestors from many different family branches, which means to determine an accurate result of a person’s ancestral origins is virtually impossible by DNA testing.

It’s extremely difficult to accurately find one’s ancestry under any circumstances. People have been genetically mixing for thousands of years. Even identical twins may show different ancestral results with different percentages.

DNA tests are fun but rarely accurate and should only be considered as a rough estimate. An example: if a person has 5% French ancestry and a DNA testing company is 5% out with it’s results, the French ancestry part could be missed completely and so on.
DNA matching between relatives dating back 3 or 4 generations is fairly accurate. It is possible to discover a 4th cousin from a DNA database, but it is doubtful DNA could be accurately matched with direct or collateral relatives going back further than that.
Another example; if we could time travel back 3 hundred years and meet our 6th great grandparents, blood wise we would hardly be related to them although they are our direct ancestors.

[Damrongsak]

On 2/1/2018 at 7:09 PM, canthai55 said:

Much later, the European colonial powers threatened in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but Thailand survived as the only Southeast Asian state to avoid European colonial rule because the French and the British ...

... needed somewhere to vacation, and Siam encouraged tourists. 

[mick220675]

On 2/1/2018 at 8:03 PM, EricTh said:

 

Yes, Khmer are the real natives of Thailand, there are more articles in that blog that explains this. Click below.

 

http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.my/2017/06/ethnic-origin-of-cambodians.html

 

The Khmer in Thailand have been assimilated, most of them don't speak Khmer anymore.

Just like the Han Chinese in Thailand who can't speak Chinese anymore.

 

http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.my/2017/07/main-ethnicities-in-thailand.html

 

 

 

Where I live in southern Buriram Khmer is still spoken by people. Many of the older generation do not speak Thai including my wife's grand parents, when visiting officials they are reliant on there family talking for them.

 

The locals have always been told they are inferior by the whiter skinned Chinese/Thais and I think they feel they are. When I read the link I was interested that the dark skinned Khmer/Thais could be the original people of Siam

[simoh1490]

19 minutes ago, mick220675 said:

Where I live in southern Buriram Khmer is still spoken by people. Many of the older generation do not speak Thai including my wife's grand parents, when visiting officials they are reliant on there family talking for them.

 

The locals have always been told they are inferior by the whiter skinned Chinese/Thais and I think they feel they are. When I read the link I was interested that the dark skinned Khmer/Thais could be the original people of Siam

Even before the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia to overthrow the Khmer Rouge, Khmer people unhappy with the Khmer Rouge had fled Cambodia and settled in Thailand, mostly near the border as early as the late 1960's. As the flow of Khmer became heavier the Thai government set up refugee camps along the border and eventually these contained tens of thousands of displaced Khmer. Eventually the KR was overthrown but many of the Khmer settled in Thailand, by this time many had grown familes that included Thai spouses and the children were eventually given Thai ID cards. Today, in many areas along that border and even further inland there are entire communities of Khmer speaking  families where the Khmer language is primary.

[mick220675]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Even before the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia to overthrow the Khmer Rouge, Khmer people unhappy with the Khmer Rouge had fled Cambodia and settled in Thailand, mostly near the border as early as the late 1960's. As the flow of Khmer became heavier the Thai government set up refugee camps along the border and eventually these contained tens of thousands of displaced Khmer. Eventually the KR was overthrown but many of the Khmer settled in Thailand, by this time many had grown familes that included Thai spouses and the children were eventually given Thai ID cards. Today, in many areas along that border and even further inland there are entire communities of Khmer speaking  families where the Khmer language is primary.

 

Yes our village has some who fled Cambodia during the war, we even have a ex Khmer Rouge soldier (he had no choice fight or die). As you say they were given Thai ID cards. 

 

My wife's grandparents were born in the village as were there parents. Not having been to school they speak there mother language Khmer.

 

 

[EricTh]

9 hours ago, mick220675 said:

Where I live in southern Buriram Khmer is still spoken by people. Many of the older generation do not speak Thai including my wife's grand parents, when visiting officials they are reliant on there family talking for them.

 

The locals have always been told they are inferior by the whiter skinned Chinese/Thais and I think they feel they are. When I read the link I was interested that the dark skinned Khmer/Thais could be the original people of Siam

 

Those closer to Cambodia might actually be recent immigrants from Cambodia and would still be able to speak Khmer but those Mon-Khmer who have been living in Bangkok or other more northern provinces for generations (2000 years) might not be able to.

 

Yes, Mon-Khmer are the original people in Thailand as explained in detail in that blog.

 

The fairer skinned Thai are the ethnic Tai and Han Chinese, the darker skinned are the ethnic Mon-Khmer and Malays. Read link below.

 

http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.my/2017/07/main-ethnicities-in-thailand.html

 

http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.my/2017/06/ethnic-origin-of-cambodians.html

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by EricTh

[jonwilly]

I was married to a girl from Buriram.

Her family village was say 20 Kms north of the province town.

A friend who spoke good Thai came to visit and we went out to wife's village for a visit.

He started looking worried and when I asked his what the problem was he said I can't understand what's being said.

I mentioned this to the wife who just laughed and said we only speak Khmer when in our home village.

Early 1990's.

 

john

[EricTh]

15 hours ago, jonwilly said:

I was married to a girl from Buriram.

Her family village was say 20 Kms north of the province town.

A friend who spoke good Thai came to visit and we went out to wife's village for a visit.

He started looking worried and when I asked his what the problem was he said I can't understand what's being said.

I mentioned this to the wife who just laughed and said we only speak Khmer when in our home village.

Early 1990's.

 

john

 

I think Buriram is part of Isaan people... I maybe wrong though.

 

 

 

[orang37]

On 2/4/2018 at 10:19 AM, mick220675 said:

Khmer are the real natives of Thailand,

A staggeringly broad generalization that conveniently ignores a few thousand years of history that resulted in the demographics of the modern Thai state being the wonderful melange of ethnicity veneered over with the more recent ascendancy of the economically dominant Chinese-Thai ... it is.

 

But, why bother studying waves of empires, wars, conquest, great S.E. Asian power geo-politics, colonization, and migration (forced and voluntary), raiding for population and deliberate re-settlement of captives, ancient trade routes, western colonial geo-politics ?

 

~o:37;

[CheGuava]

On 2/6/2018 at 8:19 PM, EricTh said:

 

I think Buriram is part of Isaan people... I maybe wrong though.

 

 

It's in the Isaan region.  The Isaan region has Lao speaking people and Khmer speaking people. (And some others, probably)

[cooked]

23 minutes ago, CheGuava said:

 

It's in the Isaan region.  The Isaan region has Lao speaking people and Khmer speaking people. (And some others, probably)

In our village in Buriram province  I'll never learn Thai as everyone speaks Lao (Isaan). As mentioned above, many older people don't really understand Thai, which is why they are such easy targets for land grabbers, they'll sign anything.

In the next village going east towards Buriram they speak Khmer. You don't really hear much Lao in Buriram itslef.

T My wife heard racist remarks about Lao speakers in BigC this morning and made the cash registers rattle, she is Isaan first, then from Buriram, then Thai.

Going West from here everyone speaks Lao when possible.

There have been so many waves of invasion, slave settlement and struggles with colonising powers (by which I mean the Burmese, Laotians and the Cambodians, not the 'colonial powers' that everyone is so eager to jump on as the source of all evil these days), that the origins of the Thai people are difficult to understand.

However, if you are talking about the race called Thai or Tai, then this has been more or less sorted out long ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_people

Edited February 8, 2018 by cooked

[EricTh]

On 2/8/2018 at 2:30 PM, cooked said:

In our village in Buriram province  I'll never learn Thai as everyone speaks Lao (Isaan). As mentioned above, many older people don't really understand Thai, which is why they are such easy targets for land grabbers, they'll sign anything.

In the next village going east towards Buriram they speak Khmer. You don't really hear much Lao in Buriram itslef.

T My wife heard racist remarks about Lao speakers in BigC this morning and made the cash registers rattle, she is Isaan first, then from Buriram, then Thai.

Going West from here everyone speaks Lao when possible.

There have been so many waves of invasion, slave settlement and struggles with colonising powers (by which I mean the Burmese, Laotians and the Cambodians, not the 'colonial powers' that everyone is so eager to jump on as the source of all evil these days), that the origins of the Thai people are difficult to understand.

However, if you are talking about the race called Thai or Tai, then this has been more or less sorted out long ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_people

 

You can't be racist towards the same race, can you?

 

It's just like English being racist towards the Dutch, they are all west Germanic people.

 

BTW, wikipedia is not always correct.

Edited February 13, 2018 by EricTh

[mick220675]

On 2/8/2018 at 2:30 PM, cooked said:

In our village in Buriram province  I'll never learn Thai as everyone speaks Lao (Isaan). As mentioned above, many older people don't really understand Thai, which is why they are such easy targets for land grabbers, they'll sign anything.

In the next village going east towards Buriram they speak Khmer. You don't really hear much Lao in Buriram itslef.

T My wife heard racist remarks about Lao speakers in BigC this morning and made the cash registers rattle, she is Isaan first, then from Buriram, then Thai.

Going West from here everyone speaks Lao when possible.

There have been so many waves of invasion, slave settlement and struggles with colonising powers (by which I mean the Burmese, Laotians and the Cambodians, not the 'colonial powers' that everyone is so eager to jump on as the source of all evil these days), that the origins of the Thai people are difficult to understand.

However, if you are talking about the race called Thai or Tai, then this has been more or less sorted out long ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_people

Before moving to Thailand I spent 2 years learning as much Thai as possible only  to find in our village no one speaks it. But with so many similarity's with Lao it did help a lot, but Khmer is very different and after spending 12 years in our village 6 km from Cambodia I can only say a hand full of words.

 

It is interesting you talk about Khmer speakers talking bad about Lao speakers in Buriram big C. Our village is around 80% Khmer and 20% Lao, the Khmer say the Lao talk down to them. I have been told that Khmer speakers are not as clean as the Lao speakers and the Lao  speakers are dirty by the Khmer speakers. It is strange but there is defiantly some form of discrimination between them.

[cooked]

1 hour ago, mick220675 said:

Before moving to Thailand I spent 2 years learning as much Thai as possible only  to find in our village no one speaks it. But with so many similarity's with Lao it did help a lot, but Khmer is very different and after spending 12 years in our village 6 km from Cambodia I can only say a hand full of words.

 

It is interesting you talk about Khmer speakers talking bad about Lao speakers in Buriram big C. Our village is around 80% Khmer and 20% Lao, the Khmer say the Lao talk down to them. I have been told that Khmer speakers are not as clean as the Lao speakers and the Lao  speakers are dirty by the Khmer speakers. It is strange but there is defiantly some form of discrimination between them.

Same here! 

As an anecdote I feverishly studied German for a year before moving to Switzerland and discovered that the people I was working with (farmers and labourers) had problems understanding 'High' German, many couldn't read.

I learnt the local dialect and then discovered that many words were incomprehensible 100Km away. 

[cooked]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

 

You can't be racist towards the same race, can you?

 

It's just like English being racist towards the Dutch, they are all west Germanic people.

 

BTW, wikipedia is not always correct.

What a ridiculous remark. Lao aren't the same race as Cambodians or Thai. You are confusing race with geography.

Thanks for the tip about Wikipedia, I always use it as a starting point before getting more involved in a subject.

[EricTh]

On 2/13/2018 at 12:34 PM, mick220675 said:

Before moving to Thailand I spent 2 years learning as much Thai as possible only  to find in our village no one speaks it. But with so many similarity's with Lao it did help a lot, but Khmer is very different and after spending 12 years in our village 6 km from Cambodia I can only say a hand full of words.

 

It is interesting you talk about Khmer speakers talking bad about Lao speakers in Buriram big C. Our village is around 80% Khmer and 20% Lao, the Khmer say the Lao talk down to them. I have been told that Khmer speakers are not as clean as the Lao speakers and the Lao  speakers are dirty by the Khmer speakers. It is strange but there is defiantly some form of discrimination between them.

 

Not only that. A lot of these Thai books and Thai teachers teach 'Khun' but what I found out by practical experience is nobody uses Khun in Thailand when talking to me. LOL.

Edited February 19, 2018 by EricTh

[EricTh]

On 2/13/2018 at 1:58 PM, cooked said:

What a ridiculous remark. Lao aren't the same race as Cambodians or Thai. You are confusing race with geography.

Thanks for the tip about Wikipedia, I always use it as a starting point before getting more involved in a subject.

 

You're correct that Lao aren't the same race as Cambodians but you didn't read the origin of Tai and Lao correctly. Read again...

 

http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.my/2017/06/ethnic-origin-of-thai.html