Trump administration may target immigrants who use food aid, other benefits

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 10:08 AM, isaanbanhou said:

funny Trump's mother was a poor immigrant that spoke English as a second language (gaelic was her first) who immigrated to America when the Great Depression was on.  Millions of Americans were without work and receiving assistance but she was allowed in.  

 

funnier still is the photo that is used in the article above.  White hands and orange face.

Hmmmm. My recollection of the Great Depression is that many poor people relied on CHARITY to survive. Not the same as welfare.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 11:27 AM, mikebike said:

Am I understanding correctly? You believe that jailing employers who hire undocumented aliens will raise wages?

Of course. They hire undocumented labour so they can pay less to them. If they have to hire legal labour they will have to pay more or go out of business.

[Jingthing]

More anti-immigrant, legal or not, red meat for "trump"'s white resentment base.

 

The "brains" behind "trump"'s immigration policies --

 

17 Jewish groups call on White House to fire adviser Stephen Miller

"The co-authors wrote that Miller, who favors an immigration reform he said would benefit applicants who would assimilate more easily into American society than others, has “extreme viewpoints and advocacy of racist policies.”

“As Jews, we are in solidarity with immigrants and refugees and believe that our nation must be a refuge and welcoming home for new Americans,” they wrote. Miller “has been an obstacle to passing widely-supported, bipartisan, popular, badly-needed immigration policy changes throughout his time in the administration.”"

 

https://www.jta.org/2018/02/09/news-opinion/united-states/17-jewish-groups-call-on-white-house-to-fire-adviser-stephen-miller

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 12:30 PM, attrayant said:

 

Prices for much of farm produce is set by processors and packers.  Farms - especially smaller ones - that hired well-paid locals would go out of business almost immediately.  If you really want the price of food to be subject to the whims of the free market without the subsidizing benefit of immigrants, it's got to be done by legislative mandate.  And then get ready to pay more at the supermarket.  With median household income flat in recent decades, I bet a lot of struggling families wouldn't be able to stomach that price increase.  No wonder politicians won't put such legislation on the table.

 

A Case Study of How Foreign Workers Help American Farms Grow Crops – and the Economy

 

 

 

If Americans want to live in a government regulated country, I'm sure North Korea will welcome them.

At the moment Americans exploit the poor to get food at prices below what they should be paying. I hope the prices do go up and serve them right for being exploiters.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 2:01 PM, Proboscis said:

Whether you are in favor of the proposed new rules or against them, the point of them is not to aim them at productive new members of American culture and economy. For starters, immigrants without a green card/residency do not qualify for any unemployment benefit that is available to citizens. So, immigrants are in a position of "become productive or starve."

 

You don't have to be a left or right-wing blow-hard to see the irony here. There are plenty of anti-immigrant folks out there (both Dems and Reps) who will prefer immigrants not to be allowed to work and therefore not be productive. Plenty of Trump supporters are anti-immigrant because of what they perceive is the theft of jobs.

 

What is certain about these new rules is that they will have little effect on the level of immigration and the cost of enforcement will far outweigh any savings.

 

The irony of benefits is that few Americans even know when they are on benefits - if you think about it, if you use something for free, you get a benefit. Walk along a road is a benefit. So is Medicare. So are all the subsidies that the federal and local governments pay out. So is state school. And tax breaks for business (but they never equate that with a "handout!")

 

The very interesting part of all of this is that perfectly legal citizens and residents will have to answer a lot of questions before they get their legal entitlements. More form filling, production of proof of citizenship/residence etc. I hope they realise that the folks that brought you this are Trump and friends. And maybe we will then have a saner benefits system

I agree with much that you wrote.

Re your "saner" benefits system- IMO no able bodied person should get benefits of any sort while there is a job available that they could do. The only assistance on offer should be to relocate them to where the job is and assist them with a short term loan to find accommodation and eat till they get paid. 

If illegals can pay large to be smuggled to a country far far away to find work, legal workers can move across the state to do so.

Welfare should be for those unable to work, and those that are at an agreed retirement age.

I believe in "free" health care, which is welfare of a sort, but that's a different thread.

[isaanbanhou]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmm. My recollection of the Great Depression is that many poor people relied on CHARITY to survive. Not the same as welfare.

 

Well as it was 85 years ago it's possible your "recollection" is a little fuzzy, but as that means you are 90+ I'm glad the nursing home gives you  internet access.

 

Although President Franklin D. Roosevelt focused mainly on creating jobs for the masses of unemployed workers, he also backed the idea of federal aid for poor children and other dependent persons. By 1935, a national welfare system had been established for the first time in American history.

http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-14-3-a-how-welfare-began-in-the-united-states.html

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, isaanbanhou said:

 

Well as it was 85 years ago it's possible your "recollection" is a little fuzzy, but as that means you are 90+ I'm glad the nursing home gives you  internet access.

 

Although President Franklin D. Roosevelt focused mainly on creating jobs for the masses of unemployed workers, he also backed the idea of federal aid for poor children and other dependent persons. By 1935, a national welfare system had been established for the first time in American history.

http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-14-3-a-how-welfare-began-in-the-united-states.html

Trump's mother was a legal immigrant in May of 1930, so what is the relevance of a national welfare system in 1935? She did not immigrate for the welfare benefits.

[isaanbanhou]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Trump's mother was a legal immigrant in May of 1930, so what is the relevance of a national welfare system in 1935? She did not immigrate for the welfare benefits.

time for warm milk toast and tea and to check for bedsores.  Thought there was no welfare back in the day ..555..

[lovelomsak]

6 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Perhaps you should go back and read the article.

"A 2017 report by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine found that 5.5 percent of immigrant households with children received cash assistance, compared to 6.3 percent of native households. Four percent of immigrant households used housing assistance, compared to five percent of native households. And about 46 percent of immigrant households used Medicaid, compared to 34 percent of native households."

I feel it should be zero assistance for immigrant  households  so there would be no need to compare

[isaanbanhou]

12 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

I feel it should be zero assistance for immigrant  households  so there would be no need to compare

I was told you immigrated to Canada, left to live in Thailand but expect Canada to provide you with healthcare? Have you renounced your Canadian citizenship?  Country shopping?

 

Or am I mistaken?

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[Chris Lawrence]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

More anti-immigrant, legal or not, red meat for "trump"'s white resentment base.

 

The "brains" behind "trump"'s immigration policies --

 

17 Jewish groups call on White House to fire adviser Stephen Miller

"The co-authors wrote that Miller, who favors an immigration reform he said would benefit applicants who would assimilate more easily into American society than others, has “extreme viewpoints and advocacy of racist policies.”

“As Jews, we are in solidarity with immigrants and refugees and believe that our nation must be a refuge and welcoming home for new Americans,” they wrote. Miller “has been an obstacle to passing widely-supported, bipartisan, popular, badly-needed immigration policy changes throughout his time in the administration.”"

 

https://www.jta.org/2018/02/09/news-opinion/united-states/17-jewish-groups-call-on-white-house-to-fire-adviser-stephen-miller

 

 

 

So are you for or against? Or you just want your grass cut for $8 per hour?

 

But the big question is what would you do!

 

The article is typical scare tactics. It doesn't address the issue, but attempts to say u will loose by way of Government handouts. 

 

What needs to be adopted is containment. What's the cost factor of increasing the financial security in another country as opposed to policies to prevent boarder crossing? Sometimes the humanitarian cost is a lesser amount then pumping your chest.

 

So no need to get splinters in your arse, what do you think.

[Scott]

The numbers are misleading.   Immigrants are generally not eligible for most services.   Medicaid is also paid to hospitals who provide care to all people regardless of their ability to pay.   In order for hospitals to receive federal funds, they can't refuse to treat people in an urgent medical situation.   Any unpaid costs, are billed to medicaid.

 

Some programs, such as WIC (Women and Infant Care) are not restricted to citizens.   The same with some Health care for children.   (Oh and a child may well be a US citizen, even if the parents are not).  

 

The gov't is free to change the criteria for many of these programs.   It's not an immigrant situation, it is a means tested program.  

[pedro01]

On 09/02/2018 at 12:30 PM, attrayant said:

 

Prices for much of farm produce is set by processors and packers.  Farms - especially smaller ones - that hired well-paid locals would go out of business almost immediately.  If you really want the price of food to be subject to the whims of the free market without the subsidizing benefit of immigrants, it's got to be done by legislative mandate.  And then get ready to pay more at the supermarket.  With median household income flat in recent decades, I bet a lot of struggling families wouldn't be able to stomach that price increase.  No wonder politicians won't put such legislation on the table.

 

A Case Study of How Foreign Workers Help American Farms Grow Crops – and the Economy

 

 

 

 

Prices of everything are set by the market. 

 

Slave labor is a subsidy for business with a huge social cost.

 

Processors & packers need the produce, they will end up living with an increase.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 12:30 PM, attrayant said:

And then get ready to pay more at the supermarket.  With median household income flat in recent decades, I bet a lot of struggling families wouldn't be able to stomach that price increase. 

I missed that before. It's one of my pet peeves that in a world with way too many people, why are we paying people to have children? If people can't afford to support children on what they earn, they shouldn't have any. 

[Opl]

On ‎09‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 3:39 AM, pedro01 said:

 

There are no low-tier jobs Americans don't want to do. That is a myth.

 

There are simply low-tier jobs American employers want to pay slave wages for.  Pay a living wage and people will get out of bed to do it.

3 Trump properties posted 144 openings for seasonal jobs. Only one went to a US worker.

“America First” doesn’t seem to apply to the president’s own businesses. In fact, the Trump administration temporarily expanded the H-2B program. In July 2017, the Department of Homeland Security raised the cap on H-2B visas for guest workers from 66,000 to 81,000 for fiscal year 2017. (Three days later, Trump's properties asked for permission to hire 76 workers through the program.)"

https://www.vox.com/2018/2/13/16466542/trump-h-2b-guest-workers

[isaanbanhou]

16 minutes ago, Opl said:

3 Trump properties posted 144 openings for seasonal jobs. Only one went to a US worker.

“America First” doesn’t seem to apply to the president’s own businesses. In fact, the Trump administration temporarily expanded the H-2B program. In July 2017, the Department of Homeland Security raised the cap on H-2B visas for guest workers from 66,000 to 81,000 for fiscal year 2017. (Three days later, Trump's properties asked for permission to hire 76 workers through the program.)"

https://www.vox.com/2018/2/13/16466542/trump-h-2b-guest-workers

 

 

Trump wants to replace undocumented, exploited workers with documented exploited workers. 

[isaanbanhou]

On 2/12/2018 at 1:51 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I missed that before. It's one of my pet peeves that in a world with way too many people, why are we paying people to have children? If people can't afford to support children on what they earn, they shouldn't have any. 

I feel the same way about the elderly, if you can t afford to feed them put them down.*

 

Perhaps thaibeachlovers idea will be put into policy. 5 years on welfare and you are forced sterilized.

 

If you make under 50k a year, forced birth control.

 

Just what America needs, more young entitled snowflakes.*

 

*sarcasm alert

[mrwebb8825]

14 hours ago, isaanbanhou said:

I feel the same way about the elderly, if you can t afford to feed them put them down.*

 

Perhaps thaibeachlovers idea will be put into policy. 5 years on welfare and you are forced sterilized.

 

If you make under 50k a year, forced birth control.

 

Just what America needs, more young entitled snowflakes.*

 

*sarcasm alert

Ever wonder why the black unemployment rate is always 2x the white unemployment rate no mater how the economy is doing? It ain't for lack of employables. Ever wonder why the black welfare recipient rate is 10x the white welfare recipient rate?

[ilostmypassword]

45 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Ever wonder why the black unemployment rate is always 2x the white unemployment rate no mater how the economy is doing? It ain't for lack of employables. Ever wonder why the black welfare recipient rate is 10x the white welfare recipient rate?

Got any facts to back that up or do you just have gas? 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, isaanbanhou said:

I feel the same way about the elderly, if you can t afford to feed them put them down.*

 

Perhaps thaibeachlovers idea will be put into policy. 5 years on welfare and you are forced sterilized.

 

If you make under 50k a year, forced birth control.

 

Just what America needs, more young entitled snowflakes.*

 

*sarcasm alert

I feel the same way about the elderly, if you can t afford to feed them put them down

I'm all for voluntary euthanasia, as I've said many times on TVF.

 

Stop paying people to have babies and they will usually stop having them.

[mrwebb8825]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Got any facts to back that up or do you just have gas? 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/09/06/black-unemployment-is-always-much-worse-than-white-unemployment-but-the-gap-depends-on-where-you-live/?utm_term=.7c56a0055696

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/12/black-white-unemployment-gap/421497/

http://www.epi.org/publication/black-unemployment-educational-attainment/

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/08/21/through-good-times-and-bad-black-unemployment-is-consistently-double-that-of-whites/

 

Anything else I can help you with? 

[ilostmypassword]

7 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/09/06/black-unemployment-is-always-much-worse-than-white-unemployment-but-the-gap-depends-on-where-you-live/?utm_term=.7c56a0055696

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/12/black-white-unemployment-gap/421497/

http://www.epi.org/publication/black-unemployment-educational-attainment/

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/08/21/through-good-times-and-bad-black-unemployment-is-consistently-double-that-of-whites/

 

Anything else I can help you with? 

 I don't see anything to support this statement:  "Ever wonder why the black welfare recipient rate is 10x the white welfare recipient rate?" Pretty conspicuous absence there.

Or do you believe that truth is contagious. If one fact you cite is true than it infects all other statements in its vicinity with truth?

[isaanbanhou]

13 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Ever wonder why the black unemployment rate is always 2x the white unemployment rate no mater how the economy is doing? It ain't for lack of employables. Ever wonder why the black welfare recipient rate is 10x the white welfare recipient rate?

do you have a reference for the figures you state or should I just check the KKK website

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.   Please get back on topic.