Obesity is classified now as a genetic predisposition

[MrY]

17 minutes ago, tropo said:

I agree! Counting calories will be the most effective method of all, no doubt. It would make our "eating less" diet even more effective as we're only guessing at how much should be eaten. My method requires more patience. As mentioned before, my wife lost 1kg per month, which would not seem like much to most, although her bodyweight was 45kg at the start of the diet. That would relate to about 2kg a month or more for heavier guys.

 

The reason I don't count calories is that I find it too much effort. Perhaps if I needed to drop a lot of weight I would consider it.

 

Well, I found out the inaccuracy of the (traditional) calorie method, but once corrected for the weight came off quite fast (1kg/week). Unfortunately I underestimated the muscle loss in the beginning, but once I switched to Intermittent Fasting it ceased to be a problem. I've been on IF for a while now and I find it easy to do. Never was much of a "breakfast person" and haven't had one for nearly 2 years now. It's late lunch, then early dinner, and that's it!

Edited February 24, 2018 by MrY

[tropo]

2 minutes ago, MrY said:

 

Well, I found out the inaccuracy of the (traditional) calorie method, but once corrected for the weight came off quite fast (1kg/week). Unfortunately I underestimated the muscle loss in the beginning, but once I switched to Intermittent Fasting it ceased to be a problem. I've been on IF for a while now and I find it easy to do. Never was much of a "breakfast person" and haven't had one for nearly 2 years now. It's late lunch, then early dinner, and that's it!

I have a pretty similar diet to that too... for maintenance. I also don't need to eat a meal when I wake up, but I do bridge the gap with some light snacks such as a piece of fruit... which can extend the time I need a real meal even further.

[MrY]

27 minutes ago, tropo said:

I have a pretty similar diet to that too... for maintenance. I also don't need to eat a meal when I wake up, but I do bridge the gap with some light snacks such as a piece of fruit... which can extend the time I need a real meal even further.

 

My IF target is 20/4, which I achieve 4-5 days a week, at least 16/4 on others. I do allow myself some flexibility, but if having the last bite/drink late in the evening results in waking up with your body still using glucose, not ketones, it defeats the purpose for me.

Edited February 24, 2018 by MrY

[MrY]

For those that are looking for a Body Composition Monitor for home use, OMRON has several models under $100 (buy one with hand grips). They are quite consistent if used in a consistent manner. The pro models you see at gyms and clinics are $2000 to $6000...

 

EDIT: Just checked Lazada, there's one for 8000 Baht, none of the cheaper ones available here.

Edited February 24, 2018 by MrY

[dontoearth]

11 minutes ago, MrY said:

For those that are looking for a Body Composition Monitor for home use, OMRON has several models under $100 (buy one with hand grips). They are quite consistent if used in a consistent manner. The pro models you see at gyms and clinics are $2000 to $6000...

     Have you used any?  I have an omron blood pressure cuff and when it shows hypertension my blood pressure is completely normal at the doctors office.  I have learned to live with it and this is the second one the first one I shipped in for adjustment and they just shipped it back telling me it was within tolerance.  So I am not very impressed with the company but $100 for a home model while I can still compare the results to a huge 1,000's of dollars health club measurement would be good.  I could learn to fudge the numbers.

[MrY]

27 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     Have you used any?  I have an omron blood pressure cuff and when it shows hypertension my blood pressure is completely normal at the doctors office.  I have learned to live with it and this is the second one the first one I shipped in for adjustment and they just shipped it back telling me it was within tolerance.  So I am not very impressed with the company but $100 for a home model while I can still compare the results to a huge 1,000's of dollars health club measurement would be good.  I could learn to fudge the numbers.

 

I don't have the current model but they look like the old model repackaged with more programs (gimmicks). The one I got is not super accurate, but it is consistent. Best results are obtained if checking in the morning after toilet but before shower every day. Morning to evening comparisons are meaningless. It is sensitive to moisture to a point I never got a good reading while my aircon was broken in the hot season... You can take it with you and compare side-by-side to one of those expensive ones, then correct for the [minor] errors. EDIT: The older model is now $55 on Amazon.

 

For BP monitor I'd recommend Panasonic. The one I got is one of the wrist models. It is finicky as f*** (to movement) but really accurate. Sometimes I get a high reading after I've botched a bunch of attempts to get a good reading by forgetting to stay still... Batteries last forever and a half.

Edited February 24, 2018 by MrY

[dontoearth]

1 hour ago, MrY said:

For those that are looking for a Body Composition Monitor for home use, OMRON has several models under $100 (buy one with hand grips). They are quite consistent if used in a consistent manner. The pro models you see at gyms and clinics are $2000 to $6000...

 

EDIT: Just checked Lazada, there's one for 8000 Baht, none of the cheaper ones available here.

     Those look really cool.  I had no idea they had come so far with personal scales.  Especially measuring the viseral fat which is an important indicator of your health.

      Thanks for bringing this info to the message board.  We see so many people just using an old scale and having lots of problems.  One of their biggest is they have no idea if they are losing fat they only know they are losing weight.  Which may not be good.

      I did get Amazon to deliver here to my hotel in bkk a few years ago.  They didn't seem to mind the shipping so you might see what their policy is if you have an amazon account.

[MrY]

4 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     Those look really cool.  I had no idea they had come so far with personal scales.  Especially measuring the viseral fat which is an important indicator of your health.

      Thanks for bringing this info to the message board.  We see so many people just using an old scale and having lots of problems.  One of their biggest is they have no idea if they are losing fat they only know they are losing weight.  Which may not be good.

      I did get Amazon to deliver here to my hotel in bkk a few years ago.  They didn't seem to mind the shipping so you might see what their policy is if you have an amazon account.

 

That is one of those functions that are probably less accurate, but the total body fat function is good (was within 1% of a reading at a clinic in FL when I first got it). I'd be interested to find out how it compares to the expensive Tanita. Mine is with me where I work, and I can't do the comparison here.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, MrY said:

For those that are looking for a Body Composition Monitor for home use, OMRON has several models under $100 (buy one with hand grips). They are quite consistent if used in a consistent manner. The pro models you see at gyms and clinics are $2000 to $6000...

 

EDIT: Just checked Lazada, there's one for 8000 Baht, none of the cheaper ones available here.

I bought the OMRON handgrip model years ago. It was totally useless - always returned either error or ridiculously low readings like 5 or 6%. It does give more realistic readings for my wife, although I don't know how accurate they are.

[MrY]

12 minutes ago, tropo said:

I bought the OMRON handgrip model years ago. It was totally useless - always returned either error or ridiculously low readings like 5 or 6%. It does give more realistic readings for my wife, although I don't know how accurate they are.

 

Is it just the handgrip without the scale? The one I'm talking about is a scale plus a handgrip on a spiral cord. (Predecessor of Omron HBF-516B)

Edited February 24, 2018 by MrY

[tropo]

2 hours ago, dontoearth said:

     Have you used any?  I have an omron blood pressure cuff and when it shows hypertension my blood pressure is completely normal at the doctors office.  I have learned to live with it and this is the second one the first one I shipped in for adjustment and they just shipped it back telling me it was within tolerance.  So I am not very impressed with the company but $100 for a home model while I can still compare the results to a huge 1,000's of dollars health club measurement would be good.  I could learn to fudge the numbers.

I have the Omron Intellisense wrist sphygmomanometer. LOL> what a word. Better known as a blood pressure meter. I get results fairly close to the arm one at the clinic. You have to set it to right or left wrist before you start it. If you really want to see how close the readings are to clinic meters, best take it to the clinic and compare readings. Blood pressure can change a lot during the day, although in your case it seems the wrong way around. You would expect higher readings at the clinic after you've travelled there, and possibly have mild anxiety.

[tropo]

Just now, MrY said:

 

Is it just the handgrip without the scale? The one I'm talking about is a scale plus a handgrip on a spiral cord.

Yeah, it's just a handgrip device that you hold at shoulder height.

[MrY]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

Yeah, it's just a handgrip device that you hold at shoulder height.

 

None of the devices that cannot run the current through the entire length of your body can be entirely accurate. Maintaining the same position every time also matters since lowering your arms will provide a path for the current between your arms and your torso affecting the readings. There is a good study about the accuracy the Omron BCM but I can't find it now. I got mine as a gift from my friend [and his wife] who opened a weight loss clinic in Florida and gave them away to first 50 customers that got the "full package" from the clinic.

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, MrY said:

 

None of the devices that cannot run the current through the entire length of your body can be entirely accurate. Maintaining the same position every time also matters since lowering your arms will provide a path for the current between your arms and your torso affecting the readings. There is a good study about the accuracy the Omron BCM but I can't find it now. I got mine as a gift from my friend [and his wife] who opened a weight loss clinic in Florida and gave them away to first 50 customers that got the "full package" from the clinic.

 

Yet they continue to sell them despite the fact they are rather useless...

[MrY]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

Yet they continue to sell them despite the fact they are rather useless...

 

...and cheap.

 

Maybe they are for the people with fat arms? The ones you stand on are even more useless. First stand with your legs apart, then take a reading with your knees together and see what happens...

[SEEDGER]

Best diet in the world "MOVE to Thailand;" After spending nearly 3 years in the warm country I lost over 40 pounds. Now I'm sad had to move back to Fat America and gained it all back!

[tropo]

10 hours ago, SEEDGER said:

Best diet in the world "MOVE to Thailand;" After spending nearly 3 years in the warm country I lost over 40 pounds. Now I'm sad had to move back to Fat America and gained it all back!

Doesn't serving size have something to do with it? When I travelled around the US I noticed how big all restaurant servings tend to be... and that's comparing it to Australia. For example, if I ordered a roast beef sandwich in the US it would come with nearly an inch thick layer of beef. In Australia, it was one slice of beef... merely a taste LOL. 

 

The climate effect is debatable. The heat saps one's energy, tending to make one lethargic and less inclined to exercise. I live full time in Thailand and seldom travel back home but on the odd occasion I do I experience a huge jump in vitality. I get that for a few weeks in Thailand over December-January too if we are lucky enough to get cooler weather. This year was nice. I have often wondered if living in Thailand has had a negative effect on my health due to the heat and airconditioning.

Edited February 25, 2018 by tropo

[MrY]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

13 hours ago, SEEDGER said:

Best diet in the world "MOVE to Thailand;" After spending nearly 3 years in the warm country I lost over 40 pounds. Now I'm sad had to move back to Fat America and gained it all back!

Doesn't serving size have something to do with it? When I travelled around the US I noticed how big all restaurant servings tend to be... and that's comparing it to Australia. For example, if I ordered a roast beef sandwich in the US it would come with nearly an inch thick layer of beef. In Australia, it was one slice of beef... merely a taste LOL. 

 

The climate effect is debatable. The heat saps one's energy, tending to make one lethargic and less inclined to exercise. I live full time in Thailand and seldom travel back home but on the odd occasion I do I experience a huge jump in vitality. I get that for a few weeks in Thailand over December-January too if we are lucky enough to get cooler weather. This year was nice. I have often wondered if living in Thailand has had a negative effect on my health due to the heat and airconditioning.

 

LOL. I put my weight on in the tropics. In Indonesia I got called The Bear by my co-workers (as in "putting on weight for the winter that never came"). In the States I rarely order anything more than a salad as that is already meal-size (a restaurant Chicken Caesar Salad can exceed 800kcal...). Or something from the bar snack menu (even the chicken wings are now turkey wing size!).

 

Aircon can definitely be a health issue. In addition to needing (proper) cleaning 3-4 times a year, too much temperature  variance is a strain on your system. The best advice I ever got against catching colds from A/C was to adjust the thermostat to whatever temperature is comfortable to wake up with, then never touch it again! Too many people confuse temperature setting as a "power setting", only to get too cold once the A/C finally catches up. Use a shower to cool down initially, leave the fan on Auto, and don't fiddle with the temp setting.

[Justfine]

Cold you eat more

Hot you drink more

 

So avoiding soft drinks hot climate should be thinner.

 

Unless you sit around in aircon all day.

[tropo]

8 minutes ago, Justfine said:

Cold you eat more

Hot you drink more

 

So avoiding soft drinks hot climate should be thinner.

 

Unless you sit around in aircon all day.

I really tried. I went from late October until earlier this week, with no aircon. A gave up a few nights ago when the room temperature went above 30C. I'm only going to use it while sleeping and in the gym... and set to 27C. If it gets hotter I'll set it at 28C because to get the humidity lower you need to pull the temp down by at least 3C.

 

I don't know about eating more when it's cold as I haven't experienced cold weather in so many years I can't remember what it's like. I do think that when it gets hot one tends to get lethargic, and that can make one lazier to prepare good food, so you hit the junk more. i.e. quick calories - no effort.

[tropo]

On 2/25/2018 at 7:19 PM, MrY said:

 

LOL. I put my weight on in the tropics. In Indonesia I got called The Bear by my co-workers (as in "putting on weight for the winter that never came"). In the States I rarely order anything more than a salad as that is already meal-size (a restaurant Chicken Caesar Salad can exceed 800kcal...). Or something from the bar snack menu (even the chicken wings are now turkey wing size!).

 

Aircon can definitely be a health issue. In addition to needing (proper) cleaning 3-4 times a year, too much temperature  variance is a strain on your system. The best advice I ever got against catching colds from A/C was to adjust the thermostat to whatever temperature is comfortable to wake up with, then never touch it again! Too many people confuse temperature setting as a "power setting", only to get too cold once the A/C finally catches up. Use a shower to cool down initially, leave the fan on Auto, and don't fiddle with the temp setting.

I've lived full time in this climate for over 15 years (Philippines & Thailand). I have never caught a cold from aircon. You can't. You can only catch a cold if you are exposed to the cold virus at a time when your immune system is compromised and that will happen when you're out of the house in a restaurant, bar, shopping center or elevator. Obviously, you need to be exposed to the cold virus. How often they need servicing will depend on how quickly the filters clog up. Once a year should suffice unless your environment is very dusty.

 

The best temperature to set the aircon at is at the highest temperature you can handle without sweating. If your pillow gets damp, pull down the temperature down a degree or so. 

 

I always combine a ceiling fan with aircon, which allows me to sleep comfortably at a higher setting. If you haven't got a ceiling fan, a pedestal fan will do. With a well-placed fan, 27 - 28C should be low enough for most people to sleep comfortably. Max room temperature where I live peaks at about 31C in the hottest months, so I never experience that extreme heat blanket you feel when coming out of a cold room.

[Justfine]

27 is too hot for me. In cold climates people tend to stay indoors and dont exercise much unless they are skiers.

 

 

[tropo]

17 hours ago, Justfine said:

27 is too hot for me. In cold climates people tend to stay indoors and dont exercise much unless they are skiers.

 

 

That's what gyms are for. Indoor gyms. The main difference is that when people live in cold climates they are always covered up with layers of clothes, so they don't expose their bodies like people in hotter climates. What you and other people don't see doesn't concern you as much. This happened to me when I visited Europe for 2 months. It was Autumn, but a lot colder than I was used to. I was shocked at the weight I had gained - then I put my clothes back on LOL. Back where I came from and here I get around in t-shirts, tank tops or no shirt (at home) all year round and unfortunately I have lots of mirrors in the house.

[MrY]

On 3/7/2018 at 2:35 PM, tropo said:

I've lived full time in this climate for over 15 years (Philippines & Thailand). I have never caught a cold from aircon. You can't. You can only catch a cold if you are exposed to the cold virus at a time when your immune system is compromised and that will happen when you're out of the house in a restaurant, bar, shopping center or elevator. Obviously, you need to be exposed to the cold virus. How often they need servicing will depend on how quickly the filters clog up. Once a year should suffice unless your environment is very dusty.

 

The best temperature to set the aircon at is at the highest temperature you can handle without sweating. If your pillow gets damp, pull down the temperature down a degree or so. 

 

I always combine a ceiling fan with aircon, which allows me to sleep comfortably at a higher setting. If you haven't got a ceiling fan, a pedestal fan will do. With a well-placed fan, 27 - 28C should be low enough for most people to sleep comfortably. Max room temperature where I live peaks at about 31C in the hottest months, so I never experience that extreme heat blanket you feel when coming out of a cold room.

 

I didn't say air-conditioners carry the cold virus... You get exposed to colds amongst people pretty much every day. But they don't call it a cold for nothing. Stressing your system (winter weather, air-conditioners, songkran ice buckets, getting caught in the rain) by lowering your core temperature suppresses your immune system [slightly] making it more likely to catch that cold you were exposed to. That is why it is not a great idea to adjust your aircon so cold as to having to adjust the temperature in the middle of the night because you were freezing your butt off. Turning off the a/c and waking up soaked in sweat isn't that brilliant of an idea either.

 

If you set the temperature to 16C, then the a/c will crank all night until it gets there! It's a target not a power setting, that's all I'm saying. Better to use the shower to cool off and not to touch the temp setting.

 

Personally sleeping with the fan on is a no-no. I can't even tolerate much of a draft, let alone have a fan blow on me all night. Every time I've done that I've woken up with badly cramped shoulders. I even try to make sure the a/c is not blowing directly on me. If using a fan works for you, then certainly you can run the temperature a little higher. And if 27C if a comfortable temperature for you, then using air-conditioning isn't much of a strain for you personally. Most people I've talked to seem to prefer much lower.

 

Servicing (including internal cleaning) an a/c once a year is a terrible idea in Thailand due to high humidity and the presence of mold spores. 3-4 times a year (depending on your usage) is closer to optimum. The filters are easy enough to clean yourself [and that's not what I'm talking about here]. There are also sprays and chemicals to fight mold, but cleaning every 3 months is best (and cheap enough). At least try to run the unit on fan only for about 30 minutes before turning off to dry the unit internally (I use the timer for that).

[Justfine]

A flu is a virus. What is a cold?

[MrY]

3 minutes ago, Justfine said:

A flu is a virus. What is a cold?

 

Can't even...

 

Flu (Influenza) is an illness caused by a virus. Cold is an illness caused by a different virus (Rhinovirus).

[Justfine]

31 minutes ago, MrY said:

 

Can't even...

 

Flu (Influenza) is an illness caused by a virus. Cold is an illness caused by a different virus (Rhinovirus).

Thanks.

[tropo]

9 hours ago, MrY said:

 

I didn't say air-conditioners carry the cold virus... You get exposed to colds amongst people pretty much every day. But they don't call it a cold for nothing. Stressing your system (winter weather, air-conditioners, songkran ice buckets, getting caught in the rain) by lowering your core temperature suppresses your immune system [slightly] making it more likely to catch that cold you were exposed to. That is why it is not a great idea to adjust your aircon so cold as to having to adjust the temperature in the middle of the night because you were freezing your butt off. Turning off the a/c and waking up soaked in sweat isn't that brilliant of an idea either.

 

If you set the temperature to 16C, then the a/c will crank all night until it gets there! It's a target not a power setting, that's all I'm saying. Better to use the shower to cool off and not to touch the temp setting.

 

Personally sleeping with the fan on is a no-no. I can't even tolerate much of a draft, let alone have a fan blow on me all night. Every time I've done that I've woken up with badly cramped shoulders. I even try to make sure the a/c is not blowing directly on me. If using a fan works for you, then certainly you can run the temperature a little higher. And if 27C if a comfortable temperature for you, then using air-conditioning isn't much of a strain for you personally. Most people I've talked to seem to prefer much lower.

 

Servicing (including internal cleaning) an a/c once a year is a terrible idea in Thailand due to high humidity and the presence of mold spores. 3-4 times a year (depending on your usage) is closer to optimum. The filters are easy enough to clean yourself [and that's not what I'm talking about here]. There are also sprays and chemicals to fight mold, but cleaning every 3 months is best (and cheap enough). At least try to run the unit on fan only for about 30 minutes before turning off to dry the unit internally (I use the timer for that).

It seems to be you're a very sensitive person. I can blow a pedestal fan full blast on my naked body all night without developing any physical ailments or cramps. Bear in mind that if I blow a fan on me like that, the room temperature is over 30C with no aircon running. The fan is blowing warm air. That's the only way for me to survive when I don't have aircon to use in the hot months. With the aircon on, it's a ceiling fan on the lowest setting to gently circulate the air. If I feel cooler into the night, which is usual, I either raise the temp a degree or use a sheet or blanket - it's not rocket science. The problem is that if the unit is running too close to pre-aircon room temperature, it won't lower humidity enough as the compressor is not on for long enough periods. I use a digital thermometer to access room temperature before I turn on the unit and set it 3C lower.

 

Not all filters are easy to clean. Mine are very difficult to access because they are industrial-type units fitted above the ceiling. I certainly wouldn't clean them more than once a year as it costs 3000 per unit... and I have 6. Having said that, I cleaned the filter yesterday on a unit that had run nightly for 4 months and there was hardly any dust on it. If the filter has hardly any dust on it, it's unlikely the evaporator coils are dirty and full of mold. In other places I've lived I had thick dust on the filter after only a month. It would depend a lot on the amount of dust in the air where you live. You generally smell the "moldiness" of a unit by how fresh the air smells in the room after it has been running. You turn it on, go out for awhile and then come back in.

 

That's a good idea about running fan only for 30 minutes. I'm going to start doing that.

Edited March 9, 2018 by tropo

[Justfine]

Fans are very cheap to run. Aircon costs a lot more.

[MrY]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

It seems to be you're a very sensitive person. I can blow a pedestal fan full blast on my naked body all night without developing any physical ailments or cramps.

 

Nah, it's just damage to my shoulders from a motorcycle wipeout 28 years ago. The wifey would like the fan, but I can't tolerate it.