New ring road west of downtown C.Rai

[boomerangutang]

I have two rural properties, and each is rather close to the new 4-lane hwy being built around the west side of downtown.  I often walk, and sometimes ride on as-yet unfinished parts of it.  Here are some observations (feel free to add yours'). . . .

 

>>>  It's a shorter route than I think it should have been.  Instead of a capital D shape (the curved part), it could have been designed to T off from Route 1 further north.  That way, it would have avoided the busy Ban Du stretch of Route 1.

 

>>>  Rather than curving around hills, the designers wanted it as straight and evenly flat as possible.  To make a straight flat road in hilly country, requires mega amounts of earth moving and more than a few bridges.  Bridges are a lot more expensive than roadway.

 

>>> The builders don't want to use clay for fill.   In other words, though they spend months cutting a giant swath through a hill (instead of spending half the time and money having gentle curve going around the hill) .....the builders are always trying to dump the clay fill in surrounding properties.   I understand that clay is not the ideal base for a road (though all of the non-bridge road bed will be be topped with about 50 cm of gravel/clay mix), - yet clay can still be used in many situations.    What appears to be happening is:  Clay is excavated away from hills, but awhile later, the builders need fill - SO THEY BRING IN CLAY FROM DISTANT PLACES!.  In other words, it's after they squandered the cubic Km of clay they had initially, that the realize they need 800 large dump trucks of new clay from somewhere else!

 

>>>  Anyone interested in bridge construction is advised to drive to the river where they're building the new hwy bridge.  They're using a (to me) unique technique.  The pre-fab sections (10 between each set of pillars) which FIT TOGETHER LIKE TONGUE AND GROOVE !   Look closely at the sections.  They're all individually numbered, with arrows, and look at how one side has about 14 tongues - which fit in the adjoining section's same # of grooves.  The sections have to be v. precisely manufactured.   

 

 It will be interesting to see how they string those sections together to make an overhead bridge.    Inside each section is a cabin-sized opening with three heavily reinforced concrete boxes, each about the size of a microwave oven - two above and one below.  My guess is the crew is going to stretch one inch cables through those three two-inch holes.  Imagine a string of large beads: pull the string tight, and all the beads line up.  If the beads have t&g provisions, it would be even stronger.

 

 

[DonaldBattles]

The bypass construction looks like it is good quality and design. They are trying to finish the section that is used the most first. I think the river bridge will be complete in 3 months. It is possible for the entire road road to be finished by the end of the year. There are 12 different contractors working on the road. This depends on fund allocation rate. Chiang Rai is booming with a lot of young Thais moving here to start a new life and business. In 10 years the ring road will be a new city. The stores downtown are owned by many generations of Thai-Chinese families and they will ultimately succumb to the new ring road city. Expect a new Lotus to be built. This assumes they get over the big accounting fraud that almost brought them down internationally. The new railroad from Chiang Kong will also contribute to the progress of Chiang Rai as local goods can be hauled to Bangkok for export reasonably cheap. Small factories will open and use this form of transport for goods. The new highway from Chiang Kong passing through Chiang Rai  goes all the way to Bangkok is well under way and will carry more Chinese goods and passengers. The plans I saw show the new road having a leg south of amphur Paan going to Chiang Mai. It is straight and short with 2 tunnels that the Chinese will dig. Will allow you to get from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai in about 1.5 hours. Look for more Lao and Burmese labor to be working in Chiang Rai. PROGRESS!

[boomerangutang]

Don, you're older and wiser than I, but I see this massive construction/expansion from a different angle.  More highways, more people, more buildings/businesses can be seen as progress - to some degree, but it's symptomatic of population growth gone amuck.   This one planet already has about 10 times more people than its carrying capacity, in my opinion. 

 

From a Chinese-type (and Thai-type) perspective, they would like to see cities, end-to-end from horizon to horizon.  Not me.  

 

[boomerangutang]

update: mid-April.

 

The section near my house, in Hoy Plakang, is hung up - literally.

 

There are two hills with a valley between.  The builders flattened the hills and sent most of the fill dirt elsewhere nearby (vip peoples' homes, etc.).    Now, they've got 4 level lanes on the top of each flattened hill, but only one lane going across the little valley.  All indications are: they're stymied.

 

I have a solution, but it's doubtful the bosses will want to hear from a farang.  

 

Another note:   When Thai construction crews flatten a hill, they want the resultant top of the hill to be level.   That's why there are several bridges being built along the route (further west), where curves and dips would suffice.  10 meter tall bridges spanning hundreds of meters is v. expensive compared to grading gradual curves around hills, but it probably won't do any good to tell the road engineers that.  

 

When building the hwy between hills:  Instead of grading the hills level, why not grade them at slight angles going down toward the valley?  That would preclude the need for bridges and/or hundreds of truckloads of imported fill.    

 

I call it "The Chinese Method" of hwy building:  where builders want the hwy as level and straight as mechanically possible, and the heck with overspending and logic.

 

BTW, my solution, alluded to above, for the 4 lanes siphoning down to 1 lane imbroglio mentioned above - is not just the slight slope grading I mentioned, but includes another low-cost fix that I don't want to describe in detail in this post.  I may seek out the engineers' office and try to present it to them, but I may be laughed out of the room.  They know what they're doing, after all, ....don't they?   They're the professionals.

[boomerangutang]

The river bridge is going slow.  I checked it out a few days ago.  I climbed up the scaffolding stairs to the v. top.  Impressive view.   If anyone has added info on the unusual bridge construction, let us know.  It looks to me like they will have several heavy steel cables (1 inch?) stretched/cinched through over-sized holes in the prefab concrete pieces - to hold it all in place.  

[sceadugenga]

The road under the new bridge at the 1211 intersection is poorly laid out, arriving from either direction you have two lanes at the lights then have to immediately merge to the left lane in the distance of a few meters  if you're not turning right, a very awkward maneuver.

[DonaldBattles]

I think the road and bridge will be finished by the end of the year. There is a 4 way stop near me where they have spent a fortune on. Could have been done easier with a four way stop sign.

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, DonaldBattles said:

I think the road and bridge will be finished by the end of the year. There is a 4 way stop near me where they have spent a fortune on. Could have been done easier with a four way stop sign.

4-way stops don't exist in Thailand. It's not hard to see why:  Few Thais are going to voluntarily stop when they come to an intersection.  They're going to want to keep their wheels turning. 

 

I like to see circles wherever possible.  I grew up in Wash. DC - where the road map was drawn by a Frenchman;, Lafayette.   There are many circles there and they work fine, as long as people slow when approaching, and act courteously to other drivers.

 

The biggest intersection in Chiang Rai, at the King Mengrei statue, could have a circle.  Better than that would be a 2 lane overpass for route 1 (the north/south road), and a large circle underneath.  It could all be built for a relatively low budget (I estimate: equiv. to 2 km of the westward ring road).   The space exists downtown.  The larger the circle, the better it works.   Paris has a bunch of circle-intersections and it's part of the charm of the city.

 

 

[sceadugenga]

And French influenced cities like Phnom Penh and Saigon.

[boomerangutang]

Another item you don't see in Thailand or Asia (except places which were European colonies):  a plaza.

 

It's acts like a circle (mentioned above) but is square or rectangular.  

 

Some of the advantages of having a plaza in a town:

 

>>>  traffic slows, thereby safer for residents

>>>  it's a place for residents and visitors to gather, interact and frollic.

>>>  it becomes a small park, sometimes with bandstand for local performances, etc.

 

The current dynamic for many Thai towns, is a large hwy going straight - often right through its center.  You can see it in every town between Chiang Rai and Mae Sai, inclusive.  Here are some of the things that happen when the highway rips through the middle of a town:

 

>>>  people can't easily cross from one side to the other on foot or bicycle.  It essentially rips the town in two.

>>>  added noise, added fossil fuel fumes

>>>  little or no park space for people to interact.

 

[DonaldBattles]

On 2/26/2018 at 10:52 AM, boomerangutang said:

Don, you're older and wiser than I, but I see this massive construction/expansion from a different angle.  More highways, more people, more buildings/businesses can be seen as progress - to some degree, but it's symptomatic of population growth gone amuck.   This one planet already has about 10 times more people than its carrying capacity, in my opinion. 

 

From a Chinese-type (and Thai-type) perspective, they would like to see cities, end-to-end from horizon to horizon.  Not me.  

 

The population of Chiang Rai continues to grow at a rapid. These are mostly young Thais moving from Bangkok for a better quality of life. Around 16;00 the traffic downtown is horrible. The new ring road will become the new Chiang Rai city. It will take about 10 years to populate. Downtown is miserable and no place to park. I never go unless it is absolutely necessary. In my neighborhood in Doi Hang a few years ago sitting on the front patio I would not see a car for 30 minutes. Now the road going up the mountain is like a free way. New buildings and houses in many directions. Once the new train and 4 lane road from Chiang Khong are finished it will bring more people . Road construction is well under way. Still waiting for the Chinese to finish the RR in Laos and then in Thailand.

[frodo77]

boomerangutang, what you refer to as circles are known as roundabouts in the UK, and they work very well there. However here not well at all. In Jomtien, Chonburi, they put one in and it was a disaster as the Thais had no idea how to use it. The "big" vehicles such as coaches and trucks did not even slow down, just plowed straight through. That intersection is now back to traffic lights.

Edited April 19, 2018 by frodo77

[my friend I]

I've been in Cambodia for the CR smoke season. Some towns there have roundabouts. They work great. Not aggro drivers like Thais but CR people could learn with the right incentive.

[DonaldBattles]

On 4/18/2018 at 6:46 AM, sceadugenga said:

The road under the new bridge at the 1211 intersection is poorly laid out, arriving from either direction you have two lanes at the lights then have to immediately merge to the left lane in the distance of a few meters  if you're not turning right, a very awkward maneuver.

This road is poor and needs major repairs. The design was done on a paper napkin.

[sceadugenga]

The trucks carrying filling to the new ring road have torn it up badly, it got a patch up consisting of a couple of inches of new tar/bitumen in places last year but it needed a complete make over.

[boomerangutang]

In the bigger picture: I think the two ring roads, one on the west, the other on the east side of Chiang Rai, ....are as much related to traffic from China as anything else.  

My opinion: the road on the east side, going by the airport, is a smart move by Chiang Rai city fathers.  The newer, west-side 4-lane hwy is somewhat redundant, badly designed and overpriced.

 

It's no secret that China wants roads/rail lines etc going everywhere overland - to connect to China and its commerce.  It's understandable from a purely economic perspective.  However, the 'New Silk Road' and the hundreds of related spider webs also relate to China seeking to establish more control over dozens of countries. 

 

Don't be surprised if, in 50 years, Thailand have a new name:  'The Autonomous Region of Thailand.'   Most of us will be compost by then, but future generations may look back at our generation and think:  "Didn't they see this coming?! If so, why didn't our parents and grandparents do something to try and slow China's expansionism?"

 

 

 

[my friend I]

Just as I read this ^ there is an ad here for property investors, list in Chinese.

[DonaldBattles]

9 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

The trucks carrying filling to the new ring road have torn it up badly, it got a patch up consisting of a couple of inches of new tar/bitumen in places last year but it needed a complete make over.

To my understanding there are 12 contractors on this job. They sure spend a lot of time dicking around. If they tear it up faster than they build it then it may never be finished. I thought they would finish by the end of the year but now god only knows when they will finish.

[sceadugenga]

Sorry Don, I thought we were talking about 1211, the road that goes under the new bridge.

The quarry for the fill is about 10kms south on that road and the trucks run all day.

[sceadugenga]

A minor annoyance is that the lights are working on 1211and you can turn right onto the ring road and head down to the SuperHighway at a considerable rate of knots but coming from town on the Highway there is no right turn to be had, the median strip is still  blocked and you have to go halfway to the White Temple to do a u-turn.

[XJ650]

 

"but coming from town on the Highway there is no right turn to be had, the median strip is still  blocked and you have to go halfway to the White Temple to do a u-turn."

 

scea, coming from town passing the new bus-stn, then at next traffic-light where you can turn left to go the new Eastern ring-road, there you can turn right and make a shortcut to the western ring-road.  

 

[sceadugenga]

OK, so you turn right at the Airport road intersection.

 

Thanks for that.

[DonaldBattles]

47 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

OK, so you turn right at the Airport road intersection.

 

Thanks for that.

It is my thinking that the government has not bought off the road from the contractor and will not do so until it is finished per contract. In the meantime, the contractor does what he wishes as it is still his road.

[boomerangutang]

There is still a problem near Hoy Plakang:

 

4 lanes from one direction, 4 lanes from another direction, and 1 connecting lane. 

 

I'm watching the 'fix' on a daily basis.  I can't fathom what they're planning to do, but I'm sure it's going to be much more expensive and time-consuming than it would be if there were sensible engineers involved.   I see other 'fixes' in other sections which look almost as hare-brained and over-wrought.

 

I guess it's taxpayers who get shafted, because they're who pays for these cost-over-runs and cumbersome 'fixes.'   Sorry to sound repetitive, but if the construction bosses could tolerate some sweeping curves and gradual up & down slopes (like US and German highways), the road would cost 1/3 as much and been constructed in half the time. 

 

 

[DonaldBattles]

6 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

There is still a problem near Hoy Plakang:

 

4 lanes from one direction, 4 lanes from another direction, and 1 connecting lane. 

 

I'm watching the 'fix' on a daily basis.  I can't fathom what they're planning to do, but I'm sure it's going to be much more expensive and time-consuming than it would be if there were sensible engineers involved.   I see other 'fixes' in other sections which look almost as hare-brained and over-wrought.

 

I guess it's taxpayers who get shafted, because they're who pays for these cost-over-runs and cumbersome 'fixes.'   Sorry to sound repetitive, but if the construction bosses could tolerate some sweeping curves and gradual up & down slopes (like US and German highways), the road would cost 1/3 as much and been constructed in half the time. 

 

 

A few years ago Thamasat University stated that 50% of all government projects went to corruption. Most of Asia is corrupt and it won't be changing.. India and China have succeded in carrying it on in South Asia. I would rate Indonesia as being the most corrupt. You have to remember that Thailand remains a 3rd world country and comparing it to Europe or the US serves no purpose. I believe that 100 years from now there won't be much change here because this is the way people want it.

Edited April 25, 2018 by sceadugenga
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