U.S. Democrats' memo charges Republicans trying to undermine Russia probes

[rooster59]

U.S. Democrats' memo charges Republicans trying to undermine Russia probes

By John Walcott and Patricia Zengerle

 

FILE PHOTO: Robert Mueller testifies before the House Judiciary Committee hearing on Federal Bureau of Investigation oversight on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC, U.S., June 13, 2013. REUTERS/Yuri Gripas/File Photo

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Democratic minority on the U.S. House of Representatives Intelligence Committee on Saturday released a response to Republican charges that the FBI and Justice Department have abused the law in their investigation of possible ties between Russia and Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign.

 

The Democrats' 10-page memo, released on Saturday in partially-redacted form, calls an earlier Republican version "a transparent effort to undermine" the FBI, the Justice Department, Special Counsel Robert Mueller, and congressional probes into possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.

 

The Republican memo, the Democrats allege, "also risks public exposure of sensitive sources and methods for no legitimate purpose."

 

The Democratic memo and a Republican counterattack that included a point-by-point refutation of the minority Democrats' conclusions, are an escalation of the partisan feuding that Rep. Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, and other members of his party have said is sabotaging the House committee's investigation.

 

The latest duel on Capitol Hill comes as Mueller's investigation gathers steam, including a guilty plea on Friday from Richard Gates, Trump's deputy campaign manager.

 

In a message posted on Twitter, Trump responded, "The Democrat memo response on government surveillance abuses is a total political and legal BUST. Just confirms all of the terrible things that were done. SO ILLEGAL!"

 

In a statement, the committee's Republican Chairman, Rep. Devin Nunes, renewed his allegations, saying: "The American people now clearly understand that the FBI used political dirt paid for by the Democratic Party to spy on an American citizen from the Republican Party."

 

"We wanted it out because we think it is clear evidence that the Democrats are not only trying to cover this up, but they're also colluding with parts of the government to help cover this up," Nunes said during an appearance at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Oxon Hills, Maryland.

 

WHITE HOUSE RESPONSE

 

In a statement released on Saturday, White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said: "While the Democrats' memorandum attempts to undercut the president politically, the president supported its release in the interest of transparency."

 

The Democratic memo charges that Republicans deliberately omitted facts from their document that undermine their allegation that the FBI conducted improper surveillance of one-time Trump campaign aide Carter Page, "whom the FBI assessed to be an agent of the Russian government."

 

The Justice Department's request for a surveillance warrant "was based on compelling evidence and probable cause to believe Page was knowingly assisting clandestine Russian intelligence activities in the U.S.," the memo says.

 

"The FBI had ample reason to believe that Carter Page was acting as an agent of a foreign power based on his history, including the fact that he had previously been a target of Russian recruitment, his travel to Russia and other information," Schiff said in a statement.

 

The Democratic memo, which was released by the White House at mid-afternoon on Saturday as Republican committee chairman Nunes was addressing the Conservative Political Action Committee, had been reviewed by the FBI and the Justice Department before its release, Schiff said.

 

"But it is unfortunate that the weekend release of the Democratic memo by the White House was delayed beyond what was necessary and to the advantage of those seeking to mislead the American public," he added.

 

The Democratic memo also disputes a Republican charge that the FBI initiated a counterintelligence investigation in late July 2016 based on an unverified dossier compiled by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele and paid for by the Democratic National Committee through a law firm.

 

By then, the memo reveals, "the FBI had already opened sub-inquiries into a (redacted number of) individuals linked to the Trump campaign." All the names except Page's were blacked out, but a footnote names Gates, former Trump National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, campaign aide George Papadopoulos, and one-time Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort.

 

All but Page and Manafort now have pleaded guilty to federal charges and are believed to be cooperating with Mueller.

 

The FBI received Steele's reporting in mid-September, more than seven weeks after launching its investigation of Page's ties to Russia.

 

The requests "made only narrow use of Steele's reporting, "chiefly his suspected July 2016 meetings in Moscow with Russian officials."

 

The Democrats also said the Justice Department's Oct. 21, 2016, application to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court for warrants to monitor Page and three subsequent renewals offered "a multipronged rationale for surveiling Page," who by then had left Trump's campaign.

 

The memo raises but does not answer questions about whether Page or other Trump affiliates might have helped Russia craft a politically sophisticated cyber campaign to help Trump win the presidency by targeting specific groups, prejudices, and areas.

 

Mueller last week described those efforts in a detailed indictment of 13 Russians and three Russian companies for meddling in the 2016 election.

Russia denies charges that it interfered in the election.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-25

[Boon Mee]

"Undermine"? 

The Democrats memo is void of facts. Conjecture and suppositions is all it is. 

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

"Undermine"? 

The Democrats memo is void of facts. Conjecture and suppositions is all it is. 

Sure. So why did the Republicans release it on a Saturday without any press releases? Because it made the Trump campaign look good? 

[mamypoko]

We used to be able to depend of the GOP for nat'l sec. Now it seems like it's Party before country. 

[Silurian]

2 hours ago, rooster59 said:

the memo reveals, "the FBI had already opened sub-inquiries into a (redacted number of) individuals linked to the Trump campaign." All the names except Page's were blacked out, but a footnote names Gates, former Trump National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, campaign aide George Papadopoulos, and one-time Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort.

 

All but Page and Manafort now have pleaded guilty to federal charges and are believed to be cooperating with Mueller.

Boom there it is! A list of who's who in the Russia investigation. Mueller is right on target.

 

The truth will out. It shows Nunes and the Republicans are trying hard to cover it all up and misdirect the investigation.

 

The Democratic rebuttal to the Nunes memo tears it apart

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/24/17048936/democrat-rebuttal-nunes-schiff-memo

Edited February 25, 2018 by Silurian

[boomerangutang]

It's clear to any sensible person what the Oval Office is most spooked about.  Whatever they try to cover up the most, is what they know will be most revealing of their law-breaking. 

 

It's like when investigators come to a suspects how to inquire about a recent bank robbery.  The suspect, standing in his living room, says, "I want to comply.  Ask me anything, but not now.  Ask me after I've lined up my lawyers in front of me, and ask me in written questions posted to my mail box in Belize."   

 

"And search the house, by all means, but don't look in the basement or under my bed or in the garage.  Everywhere else is fine, but not under the couch or in the false space between the kitchen and bathroom walls.  You won't find anything there, so don't even think about looking there, do you understand?   If you try looking where I tell you not to look, I'll have John Kelly come out with a gun and he will wave it in your face menacingly.  He knows how to shoot."

[wayned]

I expect that that Trump is still reading the memo after the white house staff divided it into 140 character segments to match his attention span and ordered in an all night supply of McDonald's burgers, fries and milk shakes!

[Becker]

2 hours ago, mamypoko said:

We used to be able to depend of the GOP for nat'l sec. Now it seems like it's Party before country. 

True, and that party is United Russia (Putin's party).

[heybruce]

U.S. Democrats' memo charges Republicans trying to undermine Russia probes

 

Of course they are.  The Republicans are more interested in winning the next election than in protecting US democracy.  And Trump's base will determine which Republicans go into the general election.

 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

"Undermine"? 

The Democrats memo is void of facts. Conjecture and suppositions is all it is. 

FISA--Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. 

 

The facts in the Democrat's memo were redacted for reasons on national security.  The need to obtain warrants using classified information is the reason for FISA.  I don't recall the Republicans ever having a problem with FISA until it was used as on a Trump campaign official with a history of suspicious links to Russia.

[riclag]

19 minutes ago, heybruce said:

U.S. Democrats' memo charges Republicans trying to undermine Russia probes

 

Of course they are.  The Republicans are more interested in winning the next election than in protecting US democracy.  And Trump's base will determine which Republicans go into the general election.

 

If anything stands out in this, is the total mistrust that American's have for all politicians!!!!!! From Republicans ,starting the Steele opposition research report to the Dem's using it as a tool to use in a FISA warrant to undermine a democratically elected nominee and sitting President

Edited February 25, 2018 by riclag

[heybruce]

13 minutes ago, riclag said:

If anything stands out in this, is the total mistrust that American's have for all politicians!!!!!! From Republicans ,starting the Steele opposition research report to the Dem's using it as a tool to use in a FISA warrant to undermine a democratically elected nominee and sitting President

The Dem's didn't use the Steele dossier in the FISA court submission, the FBI did.  The same FBI that handed the election to Trump by very publicly investigating the email server issue, then very publicly re-opening the investigation days before the election.

 

In spite of this, Trump's base thinks that since the FBI isn't Trump's obedient lap-dog it must be anti-Trump.

[riclag]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

 

 

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

The Dem's didn't use the Steele dossier in the FISA court submission, the FBI did.  The same FBI that handed the election to Trump by very publicly investigating the email server issue, then very publicly re-opening the investigation days before the election.

 

In spite of this, Trump's base thinks that since the FBI isn't Trump's obedient lap-dog it must be anti-Trump.

Correct, the Dem's didn't submit the dossier, the prior administrations DOJ lawyers in conjunction with the FBI  used  mostly uncorroborated allegations in  a  Hillary Clinton/DNC Opposition Research report to apply for a FISA, that was used to undermine the democratically elected nominee  for President of the United States.The FBI handed the election to PT is your opinion,there is no proof of that other then speculation.

We don't look for the FBI to be lap dogs . We look for the top FBI and DOJ officials to not be bias regardless of their party politics. 

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

 

Correct, the Dem's didn't submit the dossier, the prior administrations DOJ lawyers in conjunction with the FBI  used  mostly uncorroborated allegations in  a  Hillary Clinton/DNC Opposition Research report to apply for a FISA, that was used to undermine the democratically elected nominee  for President of the United States.The FBI handed the election to PT is your opinion,there is no proof of that other then speculation.

We don't look for the FBI to be lap dogs . We look for the top FBI and DOJ officials to not be bias regardless of their party politics. 

This is of course, nonsense. Carter Page was the target of an investigation well before the Steele Dossier surfaced. The Dossier itsself very clearly said that the dossier was paid for by a party in opposition to the candidate. There was plenty of evidence before the Dossier was completed. The Fifa requests were approved 4 times by judges appointed by Republican Presidents.

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, riclag said:

 

Correct, the Dem's didn't submit the dossier, the prior administrations DOJ lawyers in conjunction with the FBI  used  mostly uncorroborated allegations in  a  Hillary Clinton/DNC Opposition Research report to apply for a FISA, that was used to undermine the democratically elected nominee  for President of the United States.The FBI handed the election to PT is your opinion,there is no proof of that other then speculation.

We don't look for the FBI to be lap dogs . We look for the top FBI and DOJ officials to not be bias regardless of their party politics. 

" mostly uncorroborated allegations"

 

No, the evidence used was independently verified. 

 

Funny that you would state that "The FBI handed the election to PT is your opinion.." after stating your opinion on "a FISA, that was used to undermine the democratically elected nominee". 

 

None of the information about the FISA warrant came out until after the election, so it definitely did not undermine the nominee.  However the FBI definitely violated its own policy by making its investigation of the Clinton email server public, while keeping its investigation of Russian links to the Trump campaign secret.

 

 

[riclag]

21 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

This is of course, nonsense. Carter Page was the target of an investigation well before the Steele Dossier surfaced. The Dossier itsself very clearly said that the dossier was paid for by a party in opposition to the candidate. There was plenty of evidence before the Dossier was completed. The Fifa requests were approved 4 times by judges appointed by Republican Presidents.

 The Footnote : wasn't the DNC/HC opposition research report. Most  Republicans hate PT too

Edited February 25, 2018 by riclag

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, riclag said:

 The Footnote : wasn't the DNC/HC opposition research report

Do you think the FISA judge was too stupid to deduce the opposition research was funded by a political opponent of Trump?

[wayned]

14 minutes ago, riclag said:

the FBI  used  mostly uncorroborated allegations in  a  Hillary Clinton/DNC Opposition Research report to apply for a FISA,

I you read the 10 page memo you will clearly see that the memo states that the FBI used a portion of the Steele document on the application, but since the actual application has not been declassified we don't know what portion was used or whether it was corroborated or not.  It also outlines three other sources that were used on the application and all three were redacted to protect the sources and it clearly defines that the Steele document was generated by the opposition.

[riclag]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Do you think the FISA judge was too stupid to deduce the opposition research was funded by a political opponent of Trump?

I don't know how the footnote was worded other then it didn't have HC and DNC sponsored reports. Words mean a lot such as "grossly negligent" to "extremely careless," to not a investigation but calling it a matter.

Edited February 25, 2018 by riclag

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, riclag said:

I don't know how the footnote was worded other then it didn't have HC and DNC sponsored reports. Words mean a lot such as "grossly negligent" to "extremely careless," to not a investigation but calling it a matter.

So you do think the FISA judge was too stupid to figure out that the opposition research was funded by a political opponent of Trump, and was also too stupid to know that, when applying for a FISA warrant, the DOJ will use words that are true but favorable to granting of the warrant.

 

Do you know many judges?  I know a few, they are very smart people.

[riclag]

42 minutes ago, heybruce said:

" mostly uncorroborated allegations"

 

No, the evidence used was independently verified. 

 

Funny that you would state that "The FBI handed the election to PT is your opinion.." after stating your opinion on "a FISA, that was used to undermine the democratically elected nominee". 

 

None of the information about the FISA warrant came out until after the election, so it definitely did not undermine the nominee.  However the FBI definitely violated its own policy by making its investigation of the Clinton email server public, while keeping its investigation of Russian links to the Trump campaign secret.

 

 

What is verified ?

"The head of the FBI’s counterintelligence division assessed corroboration of the dossier as in its “infancy” when the first surveillance application was submitted to the FISA court in October. After Steele was fired for disclosing his relationship with the FBI to the press, an independent unit inside the FBI reviewed his reporting and assessed the document as “minimally corroborated.” FBI Director James Comey later referred to the dossier as “salacious and unverified” in testimony before Congress".

http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/03/5-things-fbi-never-told-fisa-court-trump-dossier/

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, riclag said:

What is verified ?

"The head of the FBI’s counterintelligence division assessed corroboration of the dossier as in its “infancy” when the first surveillance application was submitted to the FISA court in October. After Steele was fired for disclosing his relationship with the FBI to the press, an independent unit inside the FBI reviewed his reporting and assessed the document as “minimally corroborated.” FBI Director James Comey later referred to the dossier as “salacious and unverified” in testimony before Congress".

http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/03/5-things-fbi-never-told-fisa-court-trump-dossier/

From the topic article:

 

"The Democratic memo also disputes a Republican charge that the FBI initiated a counterintelligence investigation in late July 2016 based on an unverified dossier compiled by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele and paid for by the Democratic National Committee through a law firm."

 

"By then, the memo reveals, "the FBI had already opened sub-inquiries into a (redacted number of) individuals linked to the Trump campaign.""

 

As you earlier stated, choice of words are important, and The Federalist uses this to advance its agenda.  Using "minimally corroborated" and "infancy" without clarifying what these words mean in terms of evidence is misleading.  So is using "salacious and unverified" without pointing out that those terms only apply to the an unverified part of the dossier.

[ilostmypassword]

So it was the FBI and several different judges engaged in a conspiracy against Donald Trump? 

 

2 hours ago, riclag said:

I don't know how the footnote was worded other then it didn't have HC and DNC sponsored reports. Words mean a lot such as "grossly negligent" to "extremely careless," to not a investigation but calling it a matter.

Actually, it is the policy of the FBI not to unmask sources of information that are not themselves under investigation. Again it was very clearly stated that this was paid for by an opposing political. Here's a quote from the FBI's application:

“The FBI suspects that the identified U.S. Person [who paid Steele for his research] was likely looking for information that could be used to discredit Candidate #1’s campaign.”

[riclag]

16 minutes ago, heybruce said:

From the topic article:

 

"The Democratic memo also disputes a Republican charge that the FBI initiated a counterintelligence investigation in late July 2016 based on an unverified dossier compiled by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele and paid for by the Democratic National Committee through a law firm."

 

"By then, the memo reveals, "the FBI had already opened sub-inquiries into a (redacted number of) individuals linked to the Trump campaign.""

 

As you earlier stated, choice of words are important, and The Federalist uses this to advance its agenda.  Using "minimally corroborated" and "infancy" without clarifying what these words mean in terms of evidence is misleading.  So is using "salacious and unverified" without pointing out that those terms only apply to the an unverified part of the dossier.

 You claim that the evidence used was independently verified.Who verified what? What is verified?That he had business ties to Russians before he ran for office.That Cater Page went to  Russia to talk to  Russian energy companies,knowing full well that he was given the ok to go on his own but not as a rep for Mr. Trump.And that Russians were using social media to dis HC and promote Mr. Trump.

 

"BuzzFeed hires former FBI, White House cyber officials in attempt to verify Trump dossier: 

Ferrante's(FTI Consulting Co.) team has reportedly been tracking down documents and conducting interviews in an effort to verify certain claims in the dossier, which contains allegations about Trump’s ties to Russia. Much of the document remains unverified".

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/373479-buzzfeed-hired-former-fbi-white-house-cyber-officials-in-attempt-to

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/373479-buzzfeed-hired-former-fbi-white-house-cyber-officials-in-attempt-to

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, riclag said:

 You claim that the evidence used was independently verified.Who verified what? What is verified?That he had business ties to Russians before he ran for office.That Cater Page went to  Russia to talk to  Russian energy companies,knowing full well that he was given the ok to go on his own but not as a rep for Mr. Trump.And that Russians were using social media to dis HC and promote Mr. Trump.

 

"BuzzFeed hires former FBI, White House cyber officials in attempt to verify Trump dossier: 

Ferrante's(FTI Consulting Co.) team has reportedly been tracking down documents and conducting interviews in an effort to verify certain claims in the dossier, which contains allegations about Trump’s ties to Russia. Much of the document remains unverified".

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/373479-buzzfeed-hired-former-fbi-white-house-cyber-officials-in-attempt-to

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/373479-buzzfeed-hired-former-fbi-white-house-cyber-officials-in-attempt-to

And if the Dossier was the primary document for all this you might have a point. But as has been repeatedly pointed out, Page was a target well before the Dossier was created.

[riclag]

18 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

“The FBI suspects that the identified U.S. Person [who paid Steele for his research] was likely looking for information that could be used to discredit Candidate #1’s campaign.”

 So they left out the HC and the DNC in the footnote

"The Democrats said it would have been inappropriate and inconsistent with standard practice for officials to have disclosed to the court the names of American individuals and organisations that had paid Steele".

http://www.todayonline.com/world/2-weeks-after-trump-blocked-it-democrats-release-rebuttal-gop-memo

Edited February 25, 2018 by riclag

[riclag]

The warrant application itself remains under seal, and only a handful of lawmakers from either party have seen it. The New York Times has filed a motion asking the surveillance court to take the unusual step of unsealing it.

 

Do it! release those FISA apps. The world wants to know the truth! Once those come out ,Congress should make changes to the FISA court.

Edited February 25, 2018 by riclag

[heybruce]

17 minutes ago, riclag said:

The warrant application itself remains under seal, and only a handful of lawmakers from either party have seen it. The New York Times has filed a motion asking the surveillance court to take the unusual step of unsealing it.

 

Do it! release those FISA apps. The world wants to know the truth! Once those come out ,Congress should make changes to the FISA court.

Actually most of the world realizes this is a silly sideshow.  The world wants to know what Trump is going to do to prevent Russian meddling in future elections.

[riclag]

40 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Actually most of the world realizes this is a silly sideshow.  The world wants to know what Trump is going to do to prevent Russian meddling in future elections.

Since when does the world want to know what PT wants to do about future Russian meddling!  They have always tried to promote discord and so has America.Now that HC wasn't elected, all of these other questions remain.  The meddling is small potatoes, in that Russians used fake news to create discord through social media. I think the world wants to know if someone tried to undermine the current President's administration

 

 A Prof of Political Science said"If misinformation continues to flood social media and technology companies fail to improve their moderation, the sole remedy may be in media literacy, Marten said".

"The only way we can address the problem effectively overall is to improve our own elementary and high school educational systems, so that as many people as possible become critical readers and thinkers, able to call out any fake news they read on social media," Marten said.

http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-social-media-russia-20180222-story.html

[heybruce]

21 minutes ago, riclag said:

Since when does the world want to know what PT wants to do about future Russian meddling!  They have always tried to promote discord and so has America.Now that HC wasn't elected, all of these other questions remain.  The meddling is small potatoes, in that Russians used fake news to create discord through social media. I think the world wants to know if someone tried to undermine the current President's administration

 

 A Prof of Political Science said"If misinformation continues to flood social media and technology companies fail to improve their moderation, the sole remedy may be in media literacy, Marten said".

"The only way we can address the problem effectively overall is to improve our own elementary and high school educational systems, so that as many people as possible become critical readers and thinkers, able to call out any fake news they read on social media," Marten said.

http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-social-media-russia-20180222-story.html

"Since when does the world want to know what PT wants to do about future Russian meddling!"

 

Seriously?  Since Trump got elected.  Everyone who gets their news from sources other than Fox or alt-right propaganda sites knows that.

 

" Republican leaders in Congress are failing their country: at the least they should hold emergency hearings to protect America from subversion in the mid-term elections. Just now, with Mr Trump obsessively blaming the FBI and Democrats, it looks as if America does not believe democracy is worth fighting for. "   https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21737276-and-why-wests-response-inadequate-how-putin-meddles-western-democracies  

 

"The meddling is small potatoes, in that Russians used fake news to create discord through social media."

 

You think this was small potatoes?

 

" Using fake social-media personas, the Russians tried to depress turnout among blacks and Muslims, encourage third-party voting and convince people of widespread voter fraud; their actions were designed to benefit Bernie Sanders, who lost the Democratic nomination to Hillary Clinton, and Mr Trump. “Many” of the social- media groups created as part of the operation, Mr Mueller says, had more than 100,000 followers. The Russians organised and co-ordinated rallies in several states, such as a “Florida Goes Trump” day on August 20th. "  https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21737297-mueller-indictment-reveals-some-kremlins-tactics-russian-disinformation-distorts

 

I'd like to post more from both these articles, but don't want the post deleted.  Just because protecting our elections is difficult is no excuse for doing nothing.  The longer Russia is allowed to undermine democracy with impunity, the more enthusiastically Russia will engage in the interference. 

 

As I posted on another thread, I can think of only two reasons for Trump's failure to take action.  Either Russia has him compromised, or Trump hopes to use the Presidency to further business deals between his family business and Russia.  Can you think of any other reason?