Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Thanks ….. yes Cameron did seem to come back from pre-referendum negotiations with very few concessions. Many commentators at the time said that the EU were being arrogant, believing that the UK would never vote to leave, and consequently saw no need to offer anything of significance.

 

I have often wondered since, whether Cameron himself was of the same belief, and if things may well have been different, if instead, he had entered those negotiations by saying to the EU, look, if I don't go back with something substantial, there is a very real possibility that the country will vote to leave

I think that Cameron was of the same belief, in as much he didn't think the UK would vote leave anyway.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Grouse has issued enough insults so I would think he can handle this.

I don't do ad hominems, you pollock! ?

Edited April 24, 2018 by Grouse

[simoh1490]

21 minutes ago, aright said:

It was intended as humour and I have PM'd him to apologise if he saw it otherwise. I am not in the business of gratuitously insulting people.

No? Really?

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I don't do ad hominems, you pollock! ?

But you do tend to group us pollocks together, ad nauseusm. 

[aright]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I don't do ad hominems, you pollock! ?

Is that another way of saying you're straight?

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

No? Really?

Yes really. Finished. Alright is gentleman. A skinny one

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

But you do tend to group us pollocks together, ad nauseusm. 

But I don't place anyone in a group or set. If the set fits, please accept membership.

[Grouse]

Right, that's it, I'm going for a run tomorrow. Good night! 

 

Got any Rennies?

[Justfine]

40 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Cheap shot .. probably says a lot more about you than it does about anybody else

Words normally do.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

51 minutes ago, aright said:

It was intended as humour and I have PM'd him to apologise if he saw it otherwise. I am not in the business of gratuitously insulting people.

Fair play to you for apologising ..... we all make errors from time to time .....  ??

Edited April 24, 2018 by Eloquent pilgrim

[aright]

•  

Chancellor hails a 'turning point' for the economy as the Government gets back in the black and records the first surplus for 16 years after borrowing falls faster than forecast


Government borrowing was in surplus for the first time in 16 years over the past month, new data (pictured) reveals today
The new numbers come a week after it 
The new numbers come a week after it was confirmed wages are rising faster than inflation for the first time in more than a year

 

I published the two schematics because I know getting the Daily Mail in LOS can be difficult

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5650777/Government-gets-black-records-surplus-16-years.html
 

[talahtnut]

Oh Follock, deep joy, the knee clappers have finished stouting.

[nontabury]

On 19/04/2018 at 10:18 AM, dunroaming said:

Excuse me interrupting the bickering gentlemen but did anyone notice the vote in the House of Lords yesterday?

 

If I may quote The Guardian...

 

Theresa May has suffered an embarrassing defeat in the House of Lords over the issue of Britain’s membership of the customs union, increasing pressure on the government to reopen the issue.

An amendment to the EU withdrawal bill tabled by crossbencher Lord Kerr, and backed by several senior Conservatives including Lord (Chris) Patten, as well as Labour and the Lib Dems, was passed by a 348 votes to 225 – a majority of 123.

The debate on the government’s key piece of Brexit legislation, in a packed chamber, was watched by the shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer. Afterwards, he said: “The passing of this cross-party amendment is an important step forward. Theresa May must now listen to the growing chorus of voices who are urging her to drop her red line on a customs union and rethink her approach.”

We can expect further defeats I am sure, now that the consequences of Brexit become clearer.  Of course many of the Brexiteers will simply start on a rant about the House of Lords and I would probably agree with some of those rants.  However we need to have checks and balances on something that is this important and as far as the British system goes, this is as good as any.

Well I for one, certainly noticed. It just reinforced my desire that this talking shop, with all its parasites should be disbanded,and replaced with a second chamber, that hopefully will respect the wishes of the people.

 

 

 

[nontabury]

On 19/04/2018 at 10:27 AM, simoh1490 said:

Report after report, model after economic model all saying the same thing, all from different sources, many even canvassing Brexiteer views....is there even one glimmer or word of acknowledgement from TVF Team Brexit that these things might just be true...not a one, nary a grunt or a fart that something might be amiss, just the same old messages and word games, yawn.

Read a report over the weekend, that stated a government department over stated, what they considered the downside of Brexit, to the tune of 100 billion.

All with the backing of the then, Chancellor of the Exchequer. George Osbourne.

and the Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney. So no surprise there.

[nontabury]

On 19/04/2018 at 10:30 AM, sandyf said:

The whole country is in a mess and some make out it is a victory, beggers belief.

Of course the financial institutions are in favour of remaining, financial services is a major contribution to the UK economy, why cut off the hand that feeds you. Of course there is always the delusion that you can leave the club and retain all the benefits of membership.

So everything must be sacrificed for the financial services, I don’t think so.

As I’m sure you’ll agree Sandy, the UK now manufactured very little. An example, you used to live not far from Mexbrough, in Sth Yorks, a town which until about 25 yrs ago had a Hotpoint factory employing hundreds of your fellow British citizens. Unfortunately that factory has now closed.

 Forward to last Saturday, I went to the local Currys store to purchase a washer/ dryer. To discover, Unfortunately that all these machines from all the different manufactures are now manufactured on the continent. This is after the British funded E.U. gave incentives to these manufacture to reallocate to the east.

 If this was’t bad enough, this also applied to many different industries. 

So what would happen, if the UK were to Brexit without an agreement. Presumable we would revert to W.T.O trading, would this not be a good thing?

well it certainly could be for the thousands of British workers who would hopefully start to be employed in U.K factories, as it would then be more profitable for these industries to manufacture in the U.K with a population of 67-75 million customers.

[nontabury]

On 19/04/2018 at 12:35 PM, tebee said:

The problem we have now is the irish border. the government has already given a legally binding commitment  to there not being border checks between the north and south of Ireland. 

 

The only way this can be done is by Northern Ireland staying in the CU and SM - all other hi-tech solutions are fairytales.

 

But if we leave either the CU or SM  that means we need a border between NI and the rest of the UK.

 

The DUP are never going to stand for that. May needs the DUP for her majority.

 

I can't see any way we can leave the CU and maintain our commitments.

 

Plus, of course, leaving the CU will kill off a good percentage of UK manufacturing.

What U.K manufacturing?

As for the Irish Republic, if there is no agreement, their beef industry, will be very badly damaged, probably resulting in bankruptcy, along with their economy, that relies so much on the U.K  market.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

11 minutes ago, nontabury said:

What U.K manufacturing?

As for the Irish Republic, if there is no agreement, their beef industry, will be very badly damaged, probably resulting in bankruptcy, along with their economy, that relies so much on the U.K  market.

I would however contend that there is a considerable manufacturing industry in the UK still. We constructed more cars last year than ever before, even if the companies are not UK owned, for instance.

The boarder problem is not insurmountable, there are viable options.

The EU needs to trade with the UK, they cannot afford to lose the money we contribute plus the trade excess gap they enjoy.

We have been milked enough by the EU dictators.

 

[Khun Han]

33 minutes ago, nontabury said:

On 19/04/2018 at 12:35 PM, tebee said:

The problem we have now is the irish border. the government has already given a legally binding commitment  to there not being border checks between the north and south of Ireland. 

 

The only way this can be done is by Northern Ireland staying in the CU and SM - all other hi-tech solutions are fairytales.

 

But if we leave either the CU or SM  that means we need a border between NI and the rest of the UK.

 

The DUP are never going to stand for that. May needs the DUP for her majority.

 

I can't see any way we can leave the CU and maintain our commitments.

 

Plus, of course, leaving the CU will kill off a good percentage of UK manufacturing.

What U.K manufacturing?

As for the Irish Republic, if there is no agreement, their beef industry, will be very badly damaged, probably resulting in bankruptcy, along with their economy, that relies so much on the U.K  market.

 

Interesting that the EU is trying to wash it's hands of the financial contracts issue, insisting that the parties involved should sort it out themselves:

 

 https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/banks-told-by-eu-to-fix-their-dollar134-trillion-brexit-headache/ar-AAwhHnb?ocid=spartandhp

 

whilst insisting that the Irish border issue can't be allowed to sort itself out.

 

Getting involved in the former is a no-win quagmire for the EU, but getting involved in the latter is a gilt-edged opportunity for them to put a spanner in the brexit works.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

57 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So everything must be sacrificed for the financial services, I don’t think so.

As I’m sure you’ll agree Sandy, the UK now manufactured very little. An example, you used to live not far from Mexbrough, in Sth Yorks, a town which until about 25 yrs ago had a Hotpoint factory employing hundreds of your fellow British citizens. Unfortunately that factory has now closed.

 Forward to last Saturday, I went to the local Currys store to purchase a washer/ dryer. To discover, Unfortunately that all these machines from all the different manufactures are now manufactured on the continent. This is after the British funded E.U. gave incentives to these manufacture to reallocate to the east.

 If this was’t bad enough, this also applied to many different industries. 

So what would happen, if the UK were to Brexit without an agreement. Presumable we would revert to W.T.O trading, would this not be a good thing?

well it certainly could be for the thousands of British workers who would hopefully start to be employed in U.K factories, as it would then be more profitable for these industries to manufacture in the U.K with a population of 67-75 million customers.

Just a point, all the finance industry needs a kick up the arse, if some lose their jobs it is time these incompetent bloodsuckers got a problem.

The industry doesn't want to go to the EU, too much politics with US and world trading involved.

 

PS. The House of Lords is a worse joke now than it has been for hundreds of years thanks to Tony Blair and Nick Clegg filling it with their useless numbskulls.

 

[tomacht8]

Brexit no problem.
The German carmakers are crying, the German food discounters celebrate. "Aldi and Lidl will benefit if more consumers in the UK have to pay more attention to the price in the future." Aldi and Lidl have recently announced massive investments in new stores and in the modernization of their UK branches. Hurray.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Read a report over the weekend, that stated a government department over stated, what they considered the downside of Brexit, to the tune of 100 billion.

All with the backing of the then, Chancellor of the Exchequer. George Osbourne.

and the Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney. So no surprise there.

Yes, we spoke about it earlier, the report was written by a UK IP member, no surprise in his message there then!

[Khun Han]

10 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Brexit no problem.
The German carmakers are crying, the German food discounters celebrate. "Aldi and Lidl will benefit if more consumers in the UK have to pay more attention to the price in the future." Aldi and Lidl have recently announced massive investments in new stores and in the modernization of their UK branches. Hurray.

 

That's because they know that the general retail prices drop which is going to filter down from brexit will create a consumer spending boom.

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Yes, we spoke about it earlier, the report was written by a UK IP member, no surprise in his message there then!

 

Except that it isn't a message. History has established the forecast as a load of *******.

[tomacht8]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

That's because they know that the general retail prices drop which is going to filter down from brexit will create a consumer spending boom.

Sure.
The product quality is not bad.
In Germany, we have here Porsche, BMW and Mercedes drivers who buy their champagne at Aldi.
The division of society is also in full swing in Europe. The classic three-layer model: upper class, middle class, lower class has stoped to existed since the 1970s.
Today there are only 2 layers left and the middle class is dying out.
In the UK, too, there will be further thinning out of the middle class.
The overwhelming effect will be that the people of the middle class slip into the lower stratum.
And then there are the nice German discount supermarket chains, which will supply the growing lower class at a low Price. In this segment, it will then come to a spending boom. Hurray.

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Except that it isn't a message. History has established the forecast as a load of *******.

Like the leftovers from some very bad meal, every Brexiteeer wants to repackage and resell the same old news that the Treasury report was wrong, day after day, month after month, because it's the only weapon in their armoury, apart from rhetoric and a rubber band. As a group of old toothless men sat around reminiscing about the good old days, stories about how Project Fear was found to be wrong will be told repeatedly, their grandchildren will hear of it and pass it on to their children. In a thousand years time, archaeologists will uncover strange writing on ancient concrete walls, words like "project fear" and "Brexiteer" will be debated, what do they mean they will ask, must have been some strange kind of cult, drugs were popular in that period, maybe that's what it's all about.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Sure.
The product quality is not bad.
In Germany, we have here Porsche, BMW and Mercedes drivers who buy their champagne at Aldi.
The division of society is also in full swing in Europe. The classic three-layer model: upper class, middle class, lower class has stoped to existed since the 1970s.
Today there are only 2 layers left and the middle class is dying out.
In the UK, too, there will be further thinning out of the middle class.
The overwhelming effect will be that the people of the middle class slip into the lower stratum.
And then there are the nice German discount supermarket chains, which will supply the growing lower class at a low Price. In this segment, it will then come to a spending boom. Hurray.

 

You quite obviously have no idea about shopping habits here in the UK. Eastern European migrants do most of their shopping for general groceries at Aldi and Lidl. So they, to a limited extent, are a dying market for said supermarket chains, and not any reason for increased investment. Us Brits shop there for all the basics, then go to the marquee chains for everything else which one can't get in Aldi and Lidl. Like I said, there will be a consumer spending boom once brexit kicks in, and that's why Lidl and Aldi are channelling  money here now. Mark my words.

[Khun Han]

16 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Like the leftovers from some very bad meal, every Brexiteeer wants to repackage and resell the same old news that the Treasury report was wrong, day after day, month after month, because it's the only weapon in their armoury, apart from rhetoric and a rubber band. As a group of old toothless men sat around reminiscing about the good old days, stories about how Project Fear was found to be wrong will be told repeatedly, their grandchildren will hear of it and pass it on to their children. In a thousand years time, archaeologists will uncover strange writing on ancient concrete walls, words like "project fear" and "Brexiteer" will be debated, what do they mean they will ask, must have been some strange kind of cult, drugs were popular in that period, maybe that's what it's all about.

 

Yeees, yeees simoh. We all drone on. Time will be the judge. Unfortunately, time has judged your side very badly so far.

[simoh1490]

 "there will be a consumer spending boom once brexit kicks in" - remember, you heard it here first! 

[simoh1490]

10 hours ago, aright said:

•  

Chancellor hails a 'turning point' for the economy as the Government gets back in the black and records the first surplus for 16 years after borrowing falls faster than forecast


Government borrowing was in surplus for the first time in 16 years over the past month, new data (pictured) reveals today
The new numbers come a week after it 
The new numbers come a week after it was confirmed wages are rising faster than inflation for the first time in more than a year

 

I published the two schematics because I know getting the Daily Mail in LOS can be difficult

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5650777/Government-gets-black-records-surplus-16-years.html
 

Thank goodness for a weak Pound, wherever would we be without that Brexit vote, we've been saved.

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Thank goodness for a weak Pound, wherever would we be without that Brexit vote, we've been saved.

 

Sorry, your post doesn't make any sense as a response to the facts provided by Aright. We were told, a while back, on this forum that a weak Sterling would create stagflation. Why didn't that happen?