Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[HAKAPALITA]

Just now, soalbundy said:

Are you then implying that Europe ( the UK is a European country) is our enemy ? You have mislaid your family brain cell. 

In some folks eyes, England is England, Norway is too, but i remember Hitler wanted it all for Germany . nothings changed ...You dont need Europe, but Europe needs a dumping ground for  Economic Asylum seekers, how many you got now.1/2 Million free loading Males.?.

[transam]

13 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Sure, but it remains "few" when taken in the context of the size of the electorate, and that was the argument, wasn't it, that it wasn't few who voted for Brexit?  Well actually it was, few voted for Brexit while the many did not.

So where were your lot...?

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Churchill is one of the 11 founding fathers of the EU, choose a different stooge for your misattributions.

But what you need to understand is that Churchill was in favour of a federal union in Europe, and supported that idea. But his support was as a friend and ally of a federal Europe, not as part of it.

 

This is very much in line with Brexit.

 

Here's one of his quotes from 1951:

 

"Our attitude towards further economic developments on the Schuman lines resembles that which we adopt about the European Army. We help, we dedicate, we play a part, but we are not merged with and do not forfeit our insular or Commonwealth character…. It is only when plans for uniting Europe take a federal form that we ourselves cannot take part, because we cannot subordinate ourselves or the control of British policy to federal authorities."

 

 

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Seems to me that Brexit is stalled

 

Maybe time to abandon the idea?

Read this!

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/labour-mps-north-east-england-second-brexit-referendum-2018-5

 

Good chance the NE will dump Islington Labour unless the idiotic Corbyn starts working for the members particularly those in manufacturing

[soalbundy]

37 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

In some folks eyes, England is England, Norway is too, but i remember Hitler wanted it all for Germany . nothings changed ...You dont need Europe, but Europe needs a dumping ground for  Economic Asylum seekers, how many you got now.1/2 Million free loading Males.?.

I'll put this down to you not taking your medication

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I think you fail to understand the meaning of “majority”.

 

 

Get over it, it’s done.

 

You fail to consider the whole electorate rather than just those who voted, in interview, the vast majority of those who did not vote stated they would have voted remain, the people wanted to remain in the EU, the majority of British people, I know exactly what majority means and it does not mean the highest number of people who voted once like you seem to think it means.  And it is not done, unless you hadn't noticed, we will not be leaving any time soon and it is getting more likely by the day that we will never leave, so get over that one.

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You fail to consider the whole electorate rather than just those who voted, in interview, the vast majority of those who did not vote stated they would have voted remain, the people wanted to remain in the EU, the majority of British people, I know exactly what majority means and it does not mean the highest number of people who voted once like you seem to think it means.  And it is not done, unless you hadn't noticed, we will not be leaving any time soon and it is getting more likely by the day that we will never leave, so get over that one.

 

 

Still wet-dreaming......　??

 

... and now fantasizing over the vast majority of people who didn’t vote.....have you spoken to them all.

 

If a horse wins a raise by a length, he wins the race - he has no need to win by a furlong.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Jip99

[Kieran00001]

55 minutes ago, transam said:

So where were your lot...?

 

The media made out like there was no chance leave would win, so loads of remain voters didn't bother to vote while the leave voters were given more motivation to vote, if there had of been a second referendum the following day the result would have been different.  In interview, non voters stated they would have voted remain tow to one against leave voters, if everyone had of voted remain would have won by a landslide.  The people wanted remain but the result was leave, there is a difference between the wishes of the majority of people and the result of a referendum.

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The media made out like there was no chance leave would win, so loads of remain voters didn't bother to vote while the leave voters were given more motivation to vote, if there had of been a second referendum the following day the result would have been different.  In interview, non voters stated they would have voted remain tow to one against leave voters, if everyone had of voted remain would have won by a landslide.  The people wanted remain but the result was leave, there is a difference between the wishes of the majority of people and the result of a referendum.

 

 

You do make remain voters sound rather stupid....I am sure the majority (that is more than 50%) are not.

 

Did you vote.

 

Did you interview all the non-voters...

[CG1 Blue]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The media made out like there was no chance leave would win, so loads of remain voters didn't bother to vote while the leave voters were given more motivation to vote, if there had of been a second referendum the following day the result would have been different.  In interview, non voters stated they would have voted remain tow to one against leave voters, if everyone had of voted remain would have won by a landslide.  The people wanted remain but the result was leave, there is a difference between the wishes of the majority of people and the result of a referendum.

Sorry, but that's just delusional. I'm sure there were just as many anti-EU people who didn't bother to vote because they thought a Remain win was inevitable.

You're grasping at straws here. You really need to let this go and focus on more relevant areas of the debate.

[Kieran00001]

52 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

But what you need to understand is that Churchill was in favour of a federal union in Europe, and supported that idea. But his support was as a friend and ally of a federal Europe, not as part of it.

 

This is very much in line with Brexit.

 

Here's one of his quotes from 1951:

 

"Our attitude towards further economic developments on the Schuman lines resembles that which we adopt about the European Army. We help, we dedicate, we play a part, but we are not merged with and do not forfeit our insular or Commonwealth character…. It is only when plans for uniting Europe take a federal form that we ourselves cannot take part, because we cannot subordinate ourselves or the control of British policy to federal authorities."

 

 

 

 

Rather contrasting to what he said just one year before when he said that both Liberals and Conservatives were “prepared to consider, and if convinced to accept, the abrogation of national sovereignty, provided that we are satisfied with the conditions and the safeguards”. 

 

And you are cherry picking from the 1951 speech, he also said that it was disadvantageous and dangerous for us to stand aloof, that it was regrettable that Britain did not take part in discussions regarding the establishment of a European army and that he supported us joining the ECSC. 

 

And then what did he say in 1957?

"We genuinely wish to join a European free trade area – and if our continental friends wish to reach agreement, I am quite sure a way can be found and that reasonable adjustments can be made to meet the essential interests of all."

 

And also consider his actions as MP, from us signing the Treaty of Rome in 1957 through to his retirement in 1964, not once did he stand up and say one word against our joining the EEC, it is very clear that he was not against our membership in the union.

[Kieran00001]

15 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Still wet-dreaming......　??

 

Not been following the news?

[soalbundy]

14 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Still wet-dreaming......　??

 

... and now fantasizing over the vast majority of people who didn’t vote.....have you spoken to them all.

 

If a horse wins a raise by a length, he wins the race - he has no need to win by a furlong.

first this isn't a horse race and second if it was, the horse has to pass the finishing post, for brexit the finishing post is nowhere in sight, the horse may just collapse from exhaustion.

[Kieran00001]

17 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You do make remain voters sound rather stupid....I am sure the majority (that is more than 50%) are not.

 

Did you vote.

 

Did you interview all the non-voters...

 

Why do you think that makes anyone sound stupid?  It happens in every election, some people don't bother to vote if they feel certain their chosen side will win, its just normal stuff.

 

No, I did not vote, they messed it up, kept sending it back to me until it was too late, its sorted now for next time though, which looks like its going to be quite soon.

 

No, someone else interviewed a sample and extrapolated it.  Are you doubting that the majority want to remain?  We have had 11 polls since the referendum showing the will to remain.  The split was roughly 1/3 leave, 1/3 remain and 1/3 abstain.  500,000 old people have died and 500,000 young people are now of voting age, we know that older people were largely leave voters and young people were largely remain voters, we know that a new referendum today would show a different result based solely on this, then there are all the people who want to change their mind, they are largely wanting to change it to a remain vote, then there are those who would vote today had they known that leave would win, it is very clear that the British people want to remain, so it comes down to whether you care about the will of the people or if you only care about getting your way, which is it?  

 

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/brexit-is-not-the-will-of-the-british-people/

[transam]

9 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Not been following the news?

Not your news, no....

[Kieran00001]

18 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Sorry, but that's just delusional. I'm sure there were just as many anti-EU people who didn't bother to vote because they thought a Remain win was inevitable.

You're grasping at straws here. You really need to let this go and focus on more relevant areas of the debate.

 

12 million non voters, in interview they state they would have voted remain 2 to 1, that is not a delusion, that is a study.

[Kieran00001]

Just now, transam said:

Not your news, no....

 

Not the news that has been posted on this very thread.

[transam]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

12 million non voters, in interview they state they would have voted remain 2 to 1, that is not a delusion, that is a study.

So who interviewed 12,000,000 voters....?

[Jip99]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

first this isn't a horse race and second if it was, the horse has to pass the finishing post, for brexit the finishing post is nowhere in sight, the horse may just collapse from exhaustion.

 

 

?.. made me smile, but the referendum result WAS the finishing line and the referendum was the race.

 

That race has been won.

 

 

If the stewards now want to arse about with the result, they will find that the punters will not take kindly to the Jockey Club doing anything other than honoring the result.

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

12 million non voters, in interview they state they would have voted remain 2 to 1, that is not a delusion, that is a study.

 

 

Do do you have any idea how many non-voters there normally are in an election.

 

No, of course you don’t, so I will tell you that there were less non-voters for the referendum than there were for any recent general election.

 

I did vote because I managed not to fork up my paperwork. Perhaps remain voters (who couldn’t manage to vote)  should have been offered the assistance of a helper by the government......... perhaps lodge an appeal on that basis - you have tried ever other avenue of whinging.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Jip99

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Not been following the news?

They have to find a scapegoat and a facesaver to end this, it will be hard but they will find a way which is why they haven't done anything regarding custom posts, training, setting up the now necessary institutions for post brexit (that would be too late now anyway,it will take years) brexit isn't going to happen and whitehall knows it so why bother doing the necessary costly preparations.

[CG1 Blue]

15 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Rather contrasting to what he said just one year before when he said that both Liberals and Conservatives were “prepared to consider, and if convinced to accept, the abrogation of national sovereignty, provided that we are satisfied with the conditions and the safeguards”. 

 

And you are cherry picking from the 1951 speech, he also said that it was disadvantageous and dangerous for us to stand aloof, that it was regrettable that Britain did not take part in discussions regarding the establishment of a European army and that he supported us joining the ECSC. 

 

And then what did he say in 1957?

"We genuinely wish to join a European free trade area – and if our continental friends wish to reach agreement, I am quite sure a way can be found and that reasonable adjustments can be made to meet the essential interests of all."

 

And also consider his actions as MP, from us signing the Treaty of Rome in 1957 through to his retirement in 1964, not once did he stand up and say one word against our joining the EEC, it is very clear that he was not against our membership in the union.

You still miss the point. Of course he was in favour of trade arrangements with Europe.  What he was absolutely against was the UK being part of a federal Europe.  They are totally different things!

[nontabury]

9 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Out of 46.9 million, about a third.

Still more than voted to remain. It’s called democracy.

[Jip99]

Just now, nontabury said:

Still more than voted to remain. It’s called democracy.

 

Now, don’t go confusing him with facts! ?

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

?.. made me smile, but the referendum result WAS the finishing line and the referendum was the race.

 

That race has been won.

 

 

If the stewards now want to arse about with the result, they will find that the punters will not take kindly to the Jockey Club doing anything other than honoring the result.

punters are just that, punters. It's no good having a target alone, the arrow has to hit the bullseye, fat chance.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

They have to find a scapegoat and a facesaver to end this, it will be hard but they will find a way which is why they haven't done anything regarding custom posts, training, setting up the now necessary institutions for post brexit (that would be too late now anyway,it will take years) brexit isn't going to happen and whitehall knows it so why bother doing the necessary costly preparations.

Isn't it great we have you as an insider........

[CG1 Blue]

11 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

12 million non voters, in interview they state they would have voted remain 2 to 1, that is not a delusion, that is a study.

They interviewed 12 million people?  Wow, that must have taken a while.

[Kieran00001]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

So who interviewed 12,000,000 voters....?

 

Are you serious?  Did you do maths at school?  Have you never heard of extrapolation?  You read figures all day long that are created the same way, it was on a figure created this way that you got your Brexit referendum.

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

first this isn't a horse race and second if it was, the horse has to pass the finishing post, for brexit the finishing post is nowhere in sight, the horse may just collapse from exhaustion.

But don't worry I'm sure the remainers have plenty of horses in the their stable ready to join the race untill one of their horses wins.

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You still miss the point. Of course he was in favour of trade arrangements with Europe.  What he was absolutely against was the UK being part of a federal Europe.  They are totally different things!

 

Did you miss this quote?

“prepared to consider, and if convinced to accept, the abrogation of national sovereignty, provided that we are satisfied with the conditions and the safeguards”.