Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[candide]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

But all the money the EU gets comes from what the constituent governments give it - it has no direct tax raising capabilities of its own.

 

We've always paid more in that we got out because we are a relatively rich country - but that's much the same as you would expect say income tax to work? Of course Brexit may fix this for us, but not in the way you'd like it to......

It's the main source, but there are other sources from import taxes and VAT. The best is to consult the original information.

http://ec.europa.eu/budget/explained/budg_system/financing/fin_en.cfm

Edited May 31, 2018 by candide

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

And if Remain wins with a small majority what would you recommend? 

drop the whole brexit comedy for now, let the government come up with a real solution and goals they can achieve, have it discussed with the pro and cons through the media and public meetings throughout the UK then hold a general election with the government manifesto based on leave (it is what they want, after all it's for the good of the nation) , if they lose we stay, if they win we are out. 

[CG1 Blue]

19 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

His nationality is none of your business and he has the right to comment here even if he comes from Timbuktu. A lot of Brits comment on Trump, perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to

But why would you want to conceal your nationality? Nationality is relevant in this topic, and it's unfair (and quite odd) not to disclose it when asked.

If I was introduced to someone at a party and they asked if I'm English, I wouldn't say "Why should I tell you?"

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

But why would you want to conceal your nationality? Nationality is relevant in this topic, and it's unfair (and quite odd) not to disclose it when asked.

If I was introduced to someone at a party and they asked if I'm English, I wouldn't say "Why should I tell you?"

maybe you would if the party was in Iraq, it doesn't matter why, he chooses not to, end of story.

[aright]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

drop the whole brexit comedy for now, let the government come up with a real solution and goals they can achieve, have it discussed with the pro and cons through the media and public meetings throughout the UK then hold a general election with the government manifesto based on leave (it is what they want, after all it's for the good of the nation) , if they lose we stay, if they win we are out. 

Yikes! Shock Horror! This is worse than finding out Father Christmas doesn't exist.

I always had you picked as an honest broker.

Allow me to truthfully precis your four lines of Chinese algebra 

"If we had won 50.1% to 49.9% we would have stayed in the EU" 

By the way hindsight is not a strategy!

[The Renegade]

A very good example of no whinging and getting on with it.

 

Quote

Lloyds of London, the specialist insurance market, received regulatory approval for its additional base in Brussels last week.

 

That's meant to ensure that post-Brexit it can maintain business with customers across the European Economic Area, where about £4bn worth of business is written per year.

 

Lloyds did want the system of passporting, whereby financial institutions can freely trade across the EU, to be maintained - but the government rejected that approach.

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/business-44255387

 

No feet stamping, no crying like a little schoolgirl, no screaming at the Government. Action taken to address a business need.

 

There is a lesson in there for a lot of people and business's to learn and action.

[The Renegade]

32 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

let the government come up with a real solution and goals they can achieve,

How can the Government come up with that when Barmy Barnier is insisting that the UK remains under the thumb of the ECJ ?

 

Why does he and the EU Institutions not understand that leaving the EU means leaving the SM. CU and ECJ ?

 

The Government cannot come up with real solutions because the EU are still determined to try and keep the UK joined at the hip with the EU.

 

In now look likely that the only thing they will understand is out on the 29 March 2019 and WTO rules apply. They should have been hit with this right from the start, but Remainer May is also trying to keep the UK  attached to the EU.

[tebee]

29 minutes ago, aright said:

Yikes! Shock Horror! This is worse than finding out Father Christmas doesn't exist.

I always had you picked as an honest broker.

Allow me to truthfully precis your four lines of Chinese algebra 

"If we had won 50.1% to 49.9% we would have stayed in the EU" 

By the way hindsight is not a strategy!

But just about every Brexit promise made before the referendum  has turned out to be false.

 

So you book your holiday flight with Kardasistan Airways because they offer a great price.

But 2 months later you discover that 2 out of every 10 Kardasistan Airways flights has crashed.

Do you then not try and cancel your flight because it's only hindsight that's shown you you might not survive the return journey? 

[tebee]

19 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

How can the Government come up with that when Barmy Barnier is insisting that the UK remains under the thumb of the ECJ ?

 

Why does he and the EU Institutions not understand that leaving the EU means leaving the SM. CU and ECJ ?

 

The Government cannot come up with real solutions because the EU are still determined to try and keep the UK joined at the hip with the EU.

 

In now look likely that the only thing they will understand is out on the 29 March 2019 and WTO rules apply. They should have been hit with this right from the start, but Remainer May is also trying to keep the UK  attached to the EU.

Er we are out on the 29 March 2019 and WTO rules will  apply.  It's  our government is that is trying to negotiate some sort of compromise that will mean staying in CU and possibly SM because they know hard brexit will be a disaster they will not be forgiven for.

 

The only part of the UK the EU is trying to keep in the CU and SM is Northern Ireland because leaving them would break a previous government treaty . The UK has already given a commitment that it won't do this  and has accepted the EU's solution. 

[aright]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

But just about every Brexit promise made before the referendum  has turned out to be false.

 

So you book your holiday flight with Kardasistan Airways because they offer a great price.

But 2 months later you discover that 2 out of every 10 Kardasistan Airways flights has crashed.

Do you then not try and cancel your flight because it's only hindsight that's shown you you might not survive the return journey? 

No you still go to the same destination you just choose another airline or way of getting there. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

18 hours ago, tebee said:

The problem is my right to live and work  in France derives from me being a British citizen and the UK being part of the EU.

 

I also now have a problem because Brexit killed off one of my businesses and I'm now living off royalty income and the occasional programming gig  but the total is only about half the French minimum wage. This is not a problem for me, I live cheaply, don't drink(much) or smoke(at all), own my house outright, am off grid for electric and grow most of my own(organic) veg. My car is 17 years old and I do all my own maintenance, in summer often use my electric bike in preference, Spend winters here so don't have any heating bills. OK I'm probably liberal "elite"! 

 

So if we leave on bad terms, my situation could be precarious, much depends on how we treat EU citizens in UK. If I lost my right to live there I'd probably have to move to Thailand full time, rather than return to the UK.

So, all the countless comments you have made on this thread, masquerading as concern for the UK, its residents, and their economic future and wellbeing, have just been a facade, behind which has been lurking your own personal interest.

 

Your only concern is how the UK leaving the EU will affect your own personal situation as a British citizen living in France, and not for those British citizens living in the UK

 

At least now that you have nailed your true colours to the mast, I can interpret your comments for what they are worth, rather than taking them at face value

[The Renegade]

25 minutes ago, tebee said:

But just about every Brexit promise made before the referendum  has turned out to be false.

The sky has not fallen in.

 

There was no immediate recession

 

The housing market has not collapsed.

 

Unemployment down

 

Wages on the up.

 

I could go on and on.

 

If I really wanted to be pedantic, I could say that the UK has not left the EU yet so how could any Brexit promise be true or false ?

Edited May 31, 2018 by The Renegade

[tebee]

No I'm equally worried for  the UK citizens still living there and the EU citizens living in the UK too. It's a little thing called empathy for you fellow human beings.

 

I just said because of that it's personal too.

 

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There’s more than enough posts from Brexiteers here on TVF demonstrating their complete and utter lack of knowledge of how the EU operates and the relationship between the British Parliament, British Law and the EU to expose this idea the British are fed up with the EU as nonsense.

 

Almost every anti EU argument presented by Brexiteers is a fallacy with no relationship to the reality of the UK’s relationship to the EU or how the EU operates.

 

And please, the British have not told the EU anything. The pro Leave vote is well short of a majority of the British.

52/48 well short of a majority...rightyho then.

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

The sky has not fallen in.

 

There was no immediate recession

 

The housing market has not collapsed.

 

Unemployment down

 

Wages on the up.

 

I could go on and on.

 

If I really wanted to be pedantic, I could say that the UK has not left the EU yet so how could any Brexit promise be true or false ?

Indeed we haven't left yet and most of the rest of the world does not believe we will be so idiotic as to leave with no deal so that is not yet priced into the price of the pound.

 

Bur since the referendum the UK has gone from the best performing european economy to the worst one!  

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

But why would you want to conceal your nationality? Nationality is relevant in this topic, and it's unfair (and quite odd) not to disclose it when asked.

If I was introduced to someone at a party and they asked if I'm English, I wouldn't say "Why should I tell you?"

maybe you would if the party was in Iraq, it doesn't matter why, he chooses not to, end of story.

On this particular topic, if you don't want to disclose your nationality (i.e. where your interests lie), then you shouldn't participate. In my opinion anyway.

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

Indeed we haven't left yet and most of the rest of the world does not believe we will be so idiotic as to leave with no deal so that is not yet priced into the price of the pound.

 

Bur since the referendum the UK has gone from the best performing european economy to the worst one!  

 

 

 

A great example of how the UK will again be the best performing economy in the European geographical area.

 

Form is temporary, class is permanent...

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, tebee said:

I think the EU knows it's not entirely wonderful,  it is changing all the time though, mostly for the better. No one is ever  completely satisfied with their government.

 

So Brexit will not fix any of the UK's many problems? Indeed it will probably make many worse - so why do it ? It seems to be a prime example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

If it knows then it doesn't care. One of the many good reasons to leave. 

[The Renegade]

7 minutes ago, tebee said:

Bur since the referendum the UK has gone from the best performing european economy to the worst one!  

That is what €2.5 Trillion of QE does. 2017 was a blip for the EU.

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

On this particular topic, if you don't want to disclose your nationality (i.e. where your interests lie), then you shouldn't participate. In my opinion anyway.

 

 

There are a number of ‘non-interested’ parties posting on here who have anything but the UK’s best interests at heart.

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, tebee said:

No I'm equally worried for  the UK citizens still living there and the EU citizens living in the UK too. It's a little thing called empathy for you fellow human beings.

 

I just said because of that it's personal too.

 

Sorry, but your stance has been one of selfish and personal reasons now your true motives are revealed.

 

Living in Thailand I'd love the exchange rate to still be 54baht - £1, but alas I voted 'leave' for the benefit of my grandchildren who couldn't have a say in their future. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Seems a sensible thing to do, then if leave wins with a decent majority it could, if not joyfully, be  accepted by the remainers who would then keep quiet.

Why are you still struggling to understand what majority means ?

 

Firstly you said it needed to be a decisive majority, which it was; you then said it needed to be an overwhelming majority, then you said 48% of the electorate had been disenfranchised, which they had not.

 

Now you want a decent majority, whatever that means; what adjective are you going to place in front of majority next, whilst still apparently failing to understand what ‘majority’ means

[CG1 Blue]

40 minutes ago, tebee said:

But just about every Brexit promise made before the referendum  has turned out to be false.

 

So you book your holiday flight with Kardasistan Airways because they offer a great price.

But 2 months later you discover that 2 out of every 10 Kardasistan Airways flights has crashed.

Do you then not try and cancel your flight because it's only hindsight that's shown you you might not survive the return journey? 

Hats off for that analogy!

 

The only thing is, I wouldn't book the flight based on price, so Kardasistan Airways wouldn't get my business. I'm willing to pay more to book with BA

(we're still in the analogy here...)

[aright]

36 minutes ago, tebee said:

The only part of the UK the EU is trying to keep in the CU and SM is Northern Ireland because leaving them would break a previous government treaty . The UK has already given a commitment that it won't do this  and has accepted the EU's solution. 

Lets not talk about Commitments. The EU committed to giving the UK access to the Galileo Sat Nav System ...they have reneged on that. They also committed to negotiation in good faith...…..I am still waiting.

[Tanoshi]

17 minutes ago, tebee said:

Bur since the referendum the UK has gone from the best performing european economy to the worst one!  

Look at the UK's performance before we joined the EU.

 

The 60's, 70's and 80's were great years to be a UK citizen.

[aright]

4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Why are you still struggling to understand what majority means ?

 

Firstly you said it needed to be a decisive majority, which it was; you then said it needed to be an overwhelming majority, then you said 48% of the electorate had been disenfranchised, which they had not.

 

Now you want a decent majority, whatever that means; what adjective are you going to place in front of majority next, whilst still apparently failing to understand what ‘majority’ means

I'm guessing "Acceptable majority"  but I don't have to guess when it comes to  "Acceptable to whom?".

[tebee]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Lets not talk about Commitments. The EU committed to giving the UK access to the Galileo Sat Nav System ...they have reneged on that. They also committed to negotiation in good faith...…..I am still waiting.

Galileo Sat Nav is a classic case of the UK shooting itself in the foot. When it proposed the EU wanted to give all third party counties access to the high accuracy version for a fee. The UK insisted for security reasons that only EU members could have that access. The rules were revised so this was so.

 

Slight  problem now is when the UK leaves the EU it becomes a third party country and is now banned by the rules it introduced from being part of the program. 

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Why are you still struggling to understand what majority means ?

 

Firstly you said it needed to be a decisive majority, which it was; you then said it needed to be an overwhelming majority, then you said 48% of the electorate had been disenfranchised, which they had not.

 

Now you want a decent majority, whatever that means; what adjective are you going to place in front of majority next, whilst still apparently failing to understand what ‘majority’ means

I'm busy trying to satisfy your ego by avoiding any word you may dislike, you appear to have a little knotted 'me' overwhelming your consciousness with the desire to be 'right', you're not a frustrated schoolmaster by any chance ? 

[aright]

33 minutes ago, tebee said:

Galileo Sat Nav is a classic case of the UK shooting itself in the foot. When it proposed the EU wanted to give all third party counties access to the high accuracy version for a fee. The UK insisted for security reasons that only EU members could have that access. The rules were revised so this was so.

 

Slight  problem now is when the UK leaves the EU it becomes a third party country and is now banned by the rules it introduced from being part of the program. 

I prefer to think of it as your adopted country taking advantage of the UK by not honouring its commitments. You are not bound by the rules if you are given separate assurances. Once again the EU shows it is not prepared to negotiate in good faith. 

 

 

British ministers are furious over a French-led move to freeze UK companies out of hundreds of millions of pounds worth of contracts for the system, in a move they say contradicts clear assurances given to Britain during the Brexit bill negotiations.

During those negotiations Britain agreed not to request repayment for its share of EU space assets - including over £1 billion of investment in Galileo - on the basis that the UK would be part of the system under a post-Brexit security partnership.

UK officials argue that the French-led assault, backed by the European Commission, has angered other EU member states who were blindsided by the move.

Member states were particularly incensed after Martin Selmayr, the Commission’s top official, wrote a letter to Sir Tim Barrow, the UK ambassador in Brussels, setting out the EU’s legalistic position - and then declined to share it with Michel Barnier’s Task Force 50, according to both EU and UK sources.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/22/brussels-breaking-brexit-bill-promises-freezing-uk-galileo-satellite/

[The Renegade]

For those that appear to have a problem understanding Democracy.

 

The EU Referendum bill was passed in 2015 by the House of Commons and then by the House of Lords.

 

The sitting Prime Minister called the Referendum for 23 June 2016.

 

At a cost of £9million, a leaflet was sent to every household explaining why the Government thought it was best to stay in the EU.

 

There were no caveats placed on the Referendum, with the exception of

 

Quote

This is YOUR decision, The Government will implement what YOU decide

51.89% of votes were to leave.

 

After tantrums and Court Cases, Parliament voted to trigger Article 50 by 498 votes to 114 votes.

 

Will it be a disaster for the UK ? It will take at least a generation to come up with an answer to that one, so keep the hysterics in check.