Trump pushes Congress for broad bill on guns after school shooting

[webfact]

Trump pushes Congress for broad bill on guns after school shooting

By Ayesha Rascoe and Roberta Rampton

 

U.S. President Donald Trump meets with bi-partisan members of Congress to discuss school and community safety in the wake of the Florida school shootings at the White House in Washington, U.S., February 28, 2018. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Wednesday went his furthest yet toward endorsing restrictions on gun sales, challenging lawmakers to go big on legislation to help prevent more school shootings.

 

During a freewheeling hour-long discussion, Trump spoke approvingly of several ideas opposed by the powerful National Rifle Association gun lobby, which endorsed his 2016 candidacy, including raising the legal age to buy rifles to 21 from 18, and proposals to expand background checks for gun buyers.

 

"I will sign it," Trump said as he urged the group of lawmakers - some favoring more gun restrictions, others averse to gun control - to avoid tailored attempts to fix holes in gun laws and embrace a comprehensive fix.

 

Trump had been cautiously considering changes in gun laws since a gunman killed 17 people at a high school in Parkland, Florida, on Feb. 14, igniting a wave of national student activism in support of firearms restrictions.

 

The Republican president, long a champion of gun rights, had also been wary of angering voters who oppose curbs on gun ownership, particularly ahead of the November elections in which his party's control of Congress will be at stake.

 

But Trump said at the televised session on Wednesday: "You have to be very, very powerful on background checks. Don't be shy."

 

He added that he told NRA officials during a private luncheon on Sunday: "It's time. We've got to stop this nonsense. It's time."

 

Trump urged lawmakers not to lose momentum. But the Senate is not expected to bring up any gun legislation this week, and next week's agenda is also unclear.

 

One bipartisan bill to improve background checks on prospective gun buyers was gaining steam in the Senate. But Trump, Democrats and some other Republicans, are now pushing for broader measures to be added, which could stall progress.

 

'GOING TO HAVE TO BE YOU'

 

Seventeen Republican and Democratic senators and representatives were invited to the White House for the fourth such gun policy discussion that Trump has hosted in a week.

 

Previous roundtables - also open to cameras - included students and parents, law enforcement officials and state governors. The White House is set to present a list of Trump's policy decisions on school safety as early as Thursday.

 

Trump continued to express support for training and arming certain teachers in schools to protect students in the event of a mass shooting - an idea promoted by the NRA.

 

Some lawmakers flatly rejected the concept, which Trump previously said should be left up to states and school boards.

 

But Trump ruled out an NRA-backed proposal from his close ally, Steve Scalise, the No. 3 Republican in the House of Representatives, who was wounded in a mass shooting at a baseball practice last June.

 

Scalise said background check legislation should include a measure allowing people to bring legal concealed guns across state lines. The House has already passed a background check bill with that provision, which Democrats oppose.

 

Trump said he personally agreed with the idea but that it wold sink a comprehensive bill in the Senate, where Republicans hold a narrow 51-49 majority.

 

"I think that maybe that bill will someday pass, but it will pass as a separate. If you’re going to put concealed carry between states into this bill, we're talking about a whole new ball game," he said.

 

Trump pressed Republican Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania on whether he supported raising the age to buy rifles. Toomey said it would hurt young adults who enjoy hunting or target shooting without addressing the issue of mass shootings.

 

"To deny them their Second Amendment right is not going to make anyone safer," said Toomey, referring to the constitutional rights for Americans to own guns.

 

Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut told Trump that previous efforts to pass background check bills had been foiled by the NRA, and warned the president against underestimating the group's political clout.

 

"The reason that nothing's gotten done here is because the gun lobby has had a veto power over any legislation that comes before Congress," Murphy said, pressing Trump to use the power of his office on the issue.

 

"Mr. President, it's going to have to be you that brings Republicans to the table on this because right now the gun lobby will stop it in its tracks," Murphy said.

 

(Additional reporting by Doina Chiacu, Susan Cornwell and Richard Cowan; Editing by Bill Trott and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-03-01

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Scalise said background check legislation should include a measure allowing people to bring legal concealed guns across state lines. The House has already passed a background check bill with that provision, which Democrats oppose.

Despite have some of the most stringent checks, Chicago's poor performance in the gun-crime stakes which is much touted by the gun-huggers is largely enabled by the very lax gun purchase laws in neighboring (Mike Pence's) Indiana. It's not too difficult for anyone to drive a few miles east, buy a gun in Indiana and come back. Even easier for a 'thug' to just go and buy an already illegal weapon there and bring it back.

 

Keeping this in mind, I wonder why anyone would think that permitting legal gun owners to legally move their legally concealed weapons over state lines is going to be a huge boon for all the other Americans who don't feel the need to pack such portability?

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Trump pressed Republican Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania on whether he supported raising the age to buy rifles. Toomey said it would hurt young adults who enjoy hunting or target shooting without addressing the issue of mass shootings.

 

"To deny them their Second Amendment right is not going to make anyone safer," said Toomey, referring to the constitutional rights for Americans to own guns.

 

Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut told Trump that previous efforts to pass background check bills had been foiled by the NRA, and warned the president against underestimating the group's political clout.

Meanwhile, in other news, Walmart has VOLUNTARILY raised the minimum age for gun purchases to 21 years old.

 

All you career politician blowhards can pose and posture all you want but Walmart, the world's largest company by revenue – approximately US$480 billion according to Fortune Global 500 list in 2016 – as well as the largest private employer in the world with 2.3 million employees, has just kicked the Constitutional rights of a few American hunting adolescents to the curb which in light of the increasing school and public mass shootings, is the only truly acceptable and right thing to do.

 

The NRA's powerful, political, gun lobbying days are truly numbered. Then they can focus on being the 'recreational gun owners club' that they used to be.

Edited March 1, 2018 by NanLaew

[mtls2005]

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

 

Early on (1800-2008) the Supreme Court generally ruled in favor of controls. With DC v. Heller they veered right.

 

I suspect that any radical changes would ultimately be judged as an "infringement" given the current make-up of the SCOTUS?

[Get Real]

Seems like he can do one thing right anyway. No result yet, though!

[mtls2005]

Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'

 

President Trump on Wednesday voiced support for confiscating guns from certain individuals deemed to be dangerous, even if it violates due process rights.

 

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

 

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second

 

 

"Due process second", Founding Fathers spinning uncontrollably in their graves.

Edited March 1, 2018 by mtls2005

[blazes]

He'll change his mind (again) tomorrow....

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'

 

President Trump on Wednesday voiced support for confiscating guns from certain individuals deemed to be dangerous, even if it violates due process rights.

 

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

 

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second

 

 

"Due process second", Founding Fathers spinning uncontrollably in their graves.

 

Does the average American cop exercise any degree of "Second Amendment restraint" when FIRST they disarm a suspect or do they allow anyone toting a gun in public the benefit of the doubt that they are probably just another card-carrying NRA member and thus considered to be a good guy?

[Bluespunk]

Ha, ha, ha, love it. 

 

Wonder how trumps gun toting, fundamentalist, nationalistic, protectionist, magas are reacting to this.

[ilostmypassword]

I have to admit that Trump is making a politically intelligent move here. What threats can the NRA realistically invoke against Trump? That they're going to back Elizabeth Warren in the next election. Still, I doubt that anything will come of it. Even if Trump doesn't renege, the Republican Congress will never go along with it.

[ilostmypassword]

12 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I have to admit that Trump is making a politically intelligent move here. What threats can the NRA realistically invoke against Trump? That they're going to back Elizabeth Warren in the next election. Still, I doubt that anything will come of it. Even if Trump doesn't renege, the Republican Congress will never go along with it.

Well, it looks like the liberal aliens who briefly gained control of Trump's brain have been successfully expelled.

N.R.A. Suggests Trump May Retreat From Gun Control

"The top lobbyist for the National Rifle Association claimed late Thursday that President Trump had retreated from his surprising support a day earlier for gun control measures after a meeting with N.R.A. officials and Vice President Mike Pence in the Oval Office.

Chris Cox, the group’s top lobbyist, posted on Twitter just after 9 p.m. that he met with Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence, saying that “we all want safe schools, mental health reform and to keep guns away from dangerous people. POTUS & VPOTUS support the Second Amendment, support strong due process and don’t want gun control. #NRA #MAGA.”"

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/us/politics/trump-republicans-gun-control.html

[lannarebirth]

17 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Does the average American cop exercise any degree of "Second Amendment restraint" when FIRST they disarm a suspect or do they allow anyone toting a gun in public the benefit of the doubt that they are probably just another card-carrying NRA member and thus considered to be a good guy?

 

About 3 years ago now, in my town, a 5' 3" , 115 lb. female cop shot 2 black kids. She claimed she was "in fear of her life" because they each were riding a skateboard which could be made into a weapon.  What was their crime you may ask, that would cause someone to shoot them, perhaps fatally? Well, I guess they tried to shoplift a six pack at the local Safeway. They abandoned the brews before leaving the store but the police were called anyway. Funny, in my town of ultra liberals and a 2% African American population.

 

I don't doubt she was in fear of her life because she was doing a job she was never meant to do. I remember when I was looking at various careers 35-40 years ago that one of the requirements to becoming a "peace officer" was someone who was 5'11' or more and 180 lbs or more. Someone with a certain "bearing" who could keep bad things from happening , rather than only reacting to things happening.

 

All that said, I still don't blame the little girl cop. She was all alone in her cruiser that used to carry two cops. That is until 45%of the city budget was used to pay for people that have already retired. I imagine ot will be 50% then 60% soon enough.

'

[ilostmypassword]

13 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

About 3 years ago now, in my town, a 5' 3" , 115 lb. female cop shot 2 black kids. She claimed she was "in fear of her life" because they each were riding a skateboard which could be made into a weapon.  What was their crime you may ask, that would cause someone to shoot them, perhaps fatally? Well, I guess they tried to shoplift a six pack at the local Safeway. They abandoned the brews before leaving the store but the police were called anyway. Funny, in my town of ultra liberals and a 2% African American population.

 

I don't doubt she was in fear of her life because she was doing a job she was never meant to do. I remember when I was looking at various careers 35-40 years ago that one of the requirements to becoming a "peace officer" was someone who was 5'11' or more and 180 lbs or more. Someone with a certain "bearing" who could keep bad things from happening , rather than only reacting to things happening.

 

All that said, I still don't blame the little girl cop. She was all alone in her cruiser that used to carry two cops. That is until 45%of the city budget was used to pay for people that have already retired. I imagine ot will be 50% then 60% soon enough.

'

Really?

And the only story I found that nearly matched your description was this:

2 brothers shot by Olympia officer expected to survive; protests held over shooting

 

"An independent investigation has been launched after an Olympia police officer shot two brothers who allegedly attacked him with a skateboard after he stopped them for an attempted shoplifting incident.

Olympia Police Chief Ronnie Roberts and Olympia Mayor Stephen Buxbaum called for calm.

"Olympia is a community that cares deeply about social justice," Roberts said. "It's important that we stand together as a community during the investigation."

http://q13fox.com/2015/05/21/chief-officer-shot-two-brothers-following-alleged-attack-with-skateboard/

 

You'll note that in the article the officer in question is referred to as "him". Maybe they got it wrong and you got it right. Maybe Ryan Donald is really a woman or was a woman? And you got any statistics to show that women police officers are more likely to shoot suspects than male police officers? Or that shootings are inversely proportional to an officer's size?

 

It's fascinating and quite revealing that you remember it the way you do.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by ilostmypassword

[lannarebirth]

23 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Really?

And the only story I found that nearly matched your description was this:

2 brothers shot by Olympia officer expected to survive; protests held over shooting

 

"An independent investigation has been launched after an Olympia police officer shot two brothers who allegedly attacked him with a skateboard after he stopped them for an attempted shoplifting incident.

Olympia Police Chief Ronnie Roberts and Olympia Mayor Stephen Buxbaum called for calm.

"Olympia is a community that cares deeply about social justice," Roberts said. "It's important that we stand together as a community during the investigation."

http://q13fox.com/2015/05/21/chief-officer-shot-two-brothers-following-alleged-attack-with-skateboard/

 

You'll note that in the article the officer in question is referred to as "him". Maybe they got it wrong and you got it right. Maybe Ryan Donald is really a woman or was a woman? And you got any statistics to show that women police officers are more likely to shoot suspects than male police officers? Or that shootings are inversely proportional to an officer's size?

 

It's fascinating and quite revealing that you remember it the way you do.

 

 

That is indeed the story, and it was initially reported as a girl cop in her first year, post training. It seems it was indeed a "man" that merely acted as a small girl might:

 

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/article78964687.html

 

It is also possible that I have seen that little girl cop around town and I was left thinking " what the F***" are they thinking?  Anyhow, I've moved to a different state now.

Edited March 2, 2018 by lannarebirth

[Credo]

Trump will do nothing or very little on the issue, it was all a big show.  It was like his DACA stuff.   Just a show.   

 

He has no leadership, unless you consider leadership-by-chaos, as leadership.   

[mtls2005]

" I hear you"

 

As long as the next mass shooting doesn't happen in the next few weeks I can't see much progress being made on this issue.

 

There are already 4 ~ 8 million AR-15's out there, and while little Timmy won't be able walk down the street an get a new one for $1,500 (in some states), he'll be able to buy one at a gun show, or on-line for ~ 3,000 easily enough. 

 

I'd like to see:

 

15-day waiting period

local law enforcement review of gun license/purchases

better background checks/records

hefty tax on ammo/supplies/accessories to cover un-insured medical expenses and caskets for those injured/killed

gun manufacturers subject to unlimited civil suits in the cases of design/manufacturing faults

[ilostmypassword]

17 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

That is indeed the story, and it was initially reported as a girl cop in her first year, post training. It seems it was indeed a "man" that merely acted as a small girl might:

 

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/article78964687.html

 

It is also possible that I have seen that little girl cop around town and I was left thinking " what the F***" are they thinking?  Anyhow, I've moved to a different state now.

"It seems it was indeed a "man" that merely acted as a small girl might:"

So, you're still assuming that a small female police officer is more likely to shoot a suspect than a large male police officer? Or a large female police officer?

And where is your evidence that a small woman is more likely to shoot a suspect than a man? Or a woman of any size?

 

And it's interesting how for you it's "man" on the hand and "girl" on the other. Quite revealing.

Edited March 2, 2018 by ilostmypassword

[lannarebirth]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

"It seems it was indeed a "man" that merely acted as a small girl might:"

So, you're still assuming that a small female police officer is more likely to shoot a suspect than a large male police officer? Or a large female police officer?

And where is your evidence that a small woman is more likely to shoot a suspect than a man? Or a woman of any size?

 

And it's interesting how for you it's "man" on the hand and "girl" on the other. Quite revealing.

 

I think if the standard for shooting someone is that "I was in fear of my life" then a weakling is more likely to be in fear of their life than a person with an imposing build might be. In any case maybe you might agree that two stupid kids shoplifting a six pack shouldn't get shot (possibly fatally) over it.

Edited March 2, 2018 by lannarebirth

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I think if the standard for shooting someone is that "I was in fear of my life" then a weakling is more likely to be in fear of their life than a person with an imposing build might be. In any case maybe you might agree that two stupid kids shoplifting a six pack shouldn't get shot (possibly fatally) over it.

In other words, you've got nothing and clearly have a prejudice against women officers.

[lannarebirth]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

In other words, you've got nothing and clearly have a prejudice against women officers.

 

I only have a prejudice against officers that are so weak that they need to resort to lethal force to quell an incident when them imposing their own bearing and training should have sufficed. Actually I guess we're not talking about women officers at all, are we? But a man so afraid of a skateboard that he was willing to shoot, possibly kill two unarmed boys, because they attempted to steal a six pack.

[NanLaew]

41 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

I'd like to see:

 

15-day waiting period

local law enforcement review of gun license/purchases

better background checks/records

hefty tax on ammo/supplies/accessories to cover un-insured medical expenses and caskets for those injured/killed

gun manufacturers subject to unlimited civil suits in the cases of design/manufacturing faults

All pretty reasonable.

 

However, what's the NRA's take on any of these flagrant God-given Constitutional rights disablers?

 

This is the same NRA that were so sh!t scared of POTUS having a brief moment of sheer lucidity when it was badly needed, they hastily bent VPOTUS's lax Indiana gun control ear and arranged a private one-on-one with Trump. I mean who else can get such a fast-tracked meeting with POTUS?

 

The fact that the NRA hash-tagged their gloating 'we got the loose canon' press release with MAGA is rather diminished when the company that makes bump-stocks also made MAGA their online sales discount code.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I only have a prejudice against officers that are so weak that they need to resort to lethal force to quell an incident when them imposing their own bearing and training should have sufficed. Actually I guess we're not talking about women officers at all, are we? But a man so afraid of a skateboard that he was willing to shoot, possibly kill two unarmed boys, because they attempted to steal a six pack.

Ahem.

Police Officer Characteristics and the Likelihood of Using Deadly Force

"Male officers were more likely to shoot than female officers..."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247745141_Police_Officer_Characteristics_and_the_Likelihood_of_Using_Deadly_Force

[Gecko123]

I'm becoming convinced that these whip-lash changes in Trump's position are just cynical manipulation of the media. By suddenly taking the position of the opposition he momentarily confuses the opposition and taking the wind out of their sails by causing them to take a wait and see approach to what happens next. Trump did this when he invited Al Gore to a meeting at Trump Tower right before pulling the US out of the Paris climate change agreement. He did this on immigration when he initially supported the dreamers only to throw a monkey wrench into immigration reform. He also did this on taxes and healthcare. Now he's doing it on gun control. Just a day after making these statements, he's completely backed away from these positions after meeting with NRA lobbyists. Notice how in all these flip-flops, in the end it's always the super conservative position which wins out?  It's just manipulation of public opinion and the media. I doubt he ever has the sincere intention to follow through on these more progressive proposals. We're being manipulated by someone very skilled at manipulating public opinion.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:39 AM, lannarebirth said:

 

About 3 years ago now, in my town, a 5' 3" , 115 lb. female cop shot 2 black kids. She claimed she was "in fear of her life" because they each were riding a skateboard which could be made into a weapon.  What was their crime you may ask, that would cause someone to shoot them, perhaps fatally? Well, I guess they tried to shoplift a six pack at the local Safeway. They abandoned the brews before leaving the store but the police were called anyway. Funny, in my town of ultra liberals and a 2% African American population.

 

I don't doubt she was in fear of her life because she was doing a job she was never meant to do. I remember when I was looking at various careers 35-40 years ago that one of the requirements to becoming a "peace officer" was someone who was 5'11' or more and 180 lbs or more. Someone with a certain "bearing" who could keep bad things from happening , rather than only reacting to things happening.

 

All that said, I still don't blame the little girl cop. She was all alone in her cruiser that used to carry two cops. That is until 45%of the city budget was used to pay for people that have already retired. I imagine ot will be 50% then 60% soon enough.

'

Off topic so please excuse, but the recent news reports on tv from the US shows that some police officers are so fat, almost obese, that one wonders how they could catch a geriatric using a walker.

I guess being able to run fast is no longer a requirement to become a cop.

[mtls2005]

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I'm becoming convinced that these whip-lash changes in Trump's position are just cynical manipulation of the media.

 

This is the "Trump is playing 4D chess while we're playing checkers" postulation.

 

Can't really see it.

 

I'm leaning more towards..Dug...

 

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by mtls2005