Trump sours flagging NAFTA talks with steel trade war threats

[rooster59]

Trump sours flagging NAFTA talks with steel trade war threats

By Dave Graham and Sharay Angulo

 

Jerry Dias, head of Canada's private sector union Unifor, is pictured in the hotel where the seventh round of NAFTA talks takes place, in Mexico City, Mexico, March 2, 2018. REUTERS/Edgard Garrido

 

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump's threats to unleash a trade war over steel crushed hopes of substantial progress in the latest talks to rework NAFTA, heightening fears for the trade deal's future.

 

Trump said on Thursday that a plan for protectionist tariffs of 25 percent on steel imports and 10 percent on aluminum goods would be announced next week, following up on Twitter on Friday by calling trade wars "good, and easy to win."

 

Trump's statements have blunted efforts to renegotiate the 1990s-era North American Free Trade Agreement, which had already been disrupted by the early departure of a U.S. official handling one of the most divisive subjects, content rules for autos.

 

Asked how NAFTA negotiators could be working in good faith to update the deal while Trump talked approvingly about trade wars, a well-placed Canadian source replied: "That's a very good question. I don't think there's an answer yet."

 

Jerry Dias, head of Canadian private-sector union Unifor, said after meeting with Canada's chief negotiator on Friday that Trump's latest gambit to push his "America First" strategy immediately soured the negotiations.

 

"The Canadian team is absolutely furious," Dias told Reuters, saying Canada should walk away from the talks if it did not receive an exemption. He likened the Trump administration to a schoolyard bully.

 

"Ultimately Canada's going to have to start fighting fire with fire," he told reporters.

 

One Mexican official familiar with the process gave a terse appraisal of how Trump's announcement went down at the talks.

 

"Very bad news, very bad timing, very dangerous to go down this road," the official said.

 

Trade officials have become used to tensions sparked by Trump, and Mexico's chief NAFTA negotiator Kenneth Smith said the talks had not been affected by the steel announcement.

 

However, he said Mexico and Canada should be exempted from the measures as NAFTA allies of the United States.

 

It remains unclear whether the metals tariffs would apply to the United States' partners under NAFTA, which together account for more than $1 trillion worth of annual trilateral trade.

 

Canada, the biggest foreign supplier of steel and aluminum to the United States, is looking at ways to impose immediate sanctions on the United States if necessary, said the Canadian source.

 

Mexican officials said the government would likely wait for clarity on the matter before responding, but one said earlier this week that Mexico would hit back if subject to U.S. tariffs.

 

POLITICAL WILL

 

Officials say a handful of less contentious NAFTA chapters could still be concluded during the latest round of talks, and three people at the talks said the technical teams remained focused on their tasks, despite the uncertainty the steel tariff plan had caused.

 

Negotiators from the three countries have been meeting for six months and made few concrete announcements.

 

Expectations of progress at the seventh round in Mexico City had already been tempered by the conviction that major problem areas were unlikely to be removed without the mediation of senior political figures.

 

The risk of a tariff war between the NAFTA partners threw up new roadblocks.

 

Mexican steel industry association Canacero said it expected the government to take "immediate reciprocal actions" if the United States slapped the tariffs on Mexico, and agricultural lobbyists at the NAFTA talks also condemned the tariff plan.

 

Trump has repeatedly threatened to pull out of NAFTA if the deal is not recast to his liking, arguing that it has caused an exodus of U.S. manufacturing jobs to lower-cost Mexico.

 

Blindsided by Trump's steel announcement, participants at the talks are looking ahead to Monday's scheduled meeting between U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, Canada's Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland and Mexico's Economy Minister Ildefonso Guajardo for clarity on the path forward.

 

"It's not a question of what's achievable. Of course it's achievable," said one industry executive in Mexico close to the negotiations. "It's a question of political will."

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-03-03

[Samui Bodoh]

3 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

Asked how NAFTA negotiators could be working in good faith to update the deal while Trump talked approvingly about trade wars, a well-placed Canadian source replied: "That's a very good question. I don't think there's an answer yet."

And there is the crux of the matter...

 

Is this a serious position of the US? Or is this a temper tantrum of Donald Trump? One would expect better behaviour from a serious country.

 

Americans- what has happened to your country/government? And what are you doing about it? If even Canadians are questioning the friendship, where are you?

 

A message from one friend to another; you need to get your **** together!

 

[Kiwiken]

Trump made this out to be about China but China only supplies 2% US steel Canada number 1 at 17%. Already other Countries are talking about trade Tariffs on US groups. This Guy is going to start a trade war.

Sadly history shows us Trade wars generally end with a shooting war.

[mtls2005]

It seems like Trump's impulsiveness on this matter - catching everyone in the WH off-guard - is driven by his concern that the Dem. (Connor Lamb) might prevail in Pennsylvania's 18th (SW PA, coal and steel) special election in two-weeks. Trump carried this district by 20 pts.

 

Or he's just bat-sh*t crazy. See very strange Alec Baldwin tweet which came out of who knows where yesterday.

 

 

[PhonThong]

41 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

It seems like Trump's impulsiveness on this matter - catching everyone in the WH off-guard - is driven by his concern that the Dem. (Connor Lamb) might prevail in Pennsylvania's 18th (SW PA, coal and steel) special election in two-weeks. Trump carried this district by 20 pts.

 

Or he's just bat-sh*t crazy. See very strange Alec Baldwin tweet which came out of who knows where yesterday.

 

 

Sanctions from the Canadians? What is the U.S. ever to do? If Canada starts a sanction war, they would be on their own for their own for the cost of their own defense. That would cost them much, much, more. I lived not far from the U.S. Canadian border. Never gave it any thought that Canada was there. They had absolutely no effect on my life. Wouldn't miss them if they went their own way. 

[mtls2005]

1 minute ago, PhonThong said:

If Canada starts a sanction war, they would be on their own for their own for the cost of their own defense.

 

I'm not certain how much the U.S. contributes to the "cost of the defense" of Canada?

 

Yes, the U.S. and Canada have many, many, many joint treaties and agreements re: defense - must help defend those strategic maple syrup reserves - but I'm not sure how trade issues might bleed over into defense, ignoring for a moment who our POTUS is.

[ilostmypassword]

12 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

Sanctions from the Canadians? What is the U.S. ever to do? If Canada starts a sanction war, they would be on their own for their own for the cost of their own defense. That would cost them much, much, more. I lived not far from the U.S. Canadian border. Never gave it any thought that Canada was there. They had absolutely no effect on my life. Wouldn't miss them if they went their own way. 

Could you please share with us the actual research you did to come up with that conclusion? It must have been an easy task for you considering how uncomplicated things like supply chains are for manufactured goods. In fact, in general, analyzing trade patterns is such a no-brainer for you  that one has to wonder why people have devoted their professional lives to studying it. Once you publish your research, the Nobel Memorial Prize in economics will shortly afterwards be yours. Congratulations!

[attrayant]

Don't worry -  a trade war is going to be SO EASY.

 

 

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

Or he's just bat-sh*t crazy. See very strange Alec Baldwin tweet which came out of who knows where yesterday.

 

He deleted it after 20 minutes, but it's nice to know that with this stupid steel tariff making just about everybody [including US companies] unhappy, the thing that was on his mind this morning was Alex [sic] Baldwin's impersonation of him and his dieing [sic] career.  I want to know who has the job of bursting into the president's bedroom at 5 a.m. to tell him to fix his typos and tighten-up his copy.

 

 

Next time I want a grown-up president.

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by attrayant

[PhonThong]

19 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Could you please share with us the actual research you did to come up with that conclusion? It must have been an easy task for you considering how uncomplicated things like supply chains are for manufactured goods. In fact, in general, analyzing trade patterns is such a no-brainer for you  that one has to wonder why people have devoted their professional lives to studying it. Once you publish your research, the Nobel Memorial Prize in economics will shortly afterwards be yours. Congratulations!

In all honesty, are you going to tell me that the Canadian defense shield protects the U.S. more than the U.S. defense shield protects Canada?

[Samui Bodoh]

6 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

In all honesty, are you going to tell me that the Canadian defense shield protects the U.S. more than the U.S. defense shield protects Canada?

 

In all honesty, most Canadians view the US as the biggest threat to Canada.

 

How would you feel living next door to a gun-totting, unstable, man-child?

 

[attrayant]

8 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

In all honesty, are you going to tell me that the Canadian defense shield protects the U.S. more than the U.S. defense shield protects Canada?

 

In all honesty, are you going to tell me that the US entered into a defense treaty with Canada (or any country) so that the US could benefit from Canada's mighty military prowess?

[boomerangutang]

It's not enough for Trump to constantly give his middle finger salute to Americans (and Mexicans, Haitians, Africans, all brown and black skinned people, all Muslims....),  Now he's giving the finger to Canadians.   The only solace is, as Chuck Schumer alluded to this morning in an interview, Trump flip flops so often, that he'll probably flip or flop on the stupid sanctions issue also.

 

What would be worse:  stopping Trump from tweeting while masking-tape his mouth, .....or letting the steam off by allowing him to tweet and run his stupid mouth?   You tell me.

[mtls2005]

13 minutes ago, attrayant said:

I want to know who has the job of bursting into the president's bedroom at 5 a.m. to tell him to fix his typos and tighten-up his copy.

 

This was Hope Hicks job, not sure who's doing it now?

 

While Trump does publish some of his tweets straight-away - these are very easy to identify - most went through Hope Hicks and she "published" them, hence the ~ 7-minute delay from a Fox segment to a Trump tweet.

[ilostmypassword]

15 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

In all honesty, are you going to tell me that the Canadian defense shield protects the U.S. more than the U.S. defense shield protects Canada?

"I lived not far from the U.S. Canadian border. Never gave it any thought that Canada was there. They had absolutely no effect on my life. Wouldn't miss them if they went their own way. "

In all honesty, have you an intimate knowledge of the the Canadian and US economies interact? If not, how do you that "They had absolutely no effect on my life."

And for your information. Canada devotes 4.1% of its budget to defense. Which is twice as much as does any other Nato member apart from the USA. 

[PhonThong]

11 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

In all honesty, are you going to tell me that the US entered into a defense treaty with Canada (or any country) so that the US could benefit from Canada's mighty military prowess?

Absolutely not.

[mikebike]

20 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

In all honesty, are you going to tell me that the Canadian defense shield protects the U.S. more than the U.S. defense shield protects Canada?

Just who in god's name do you think the US is protecting Canada from?

 

Cold war era legacy defense treaties were meant to codify the US protecting its own interests both geopolitically and resource-wise in case the Soviets ever came over the arctic.

 

I have never met a Canadian who lives in fear of being attacked by anyone...

[PhonThong]

47 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Could you please share with us the actual research you did to come up with that conclusion? It must have been an easy task for you considering how uncomplicated things like supply chains are for manufactured goods. In fact, in general, analyzing trade patterns is such a no-brainer for you  that one has to wonder why people have devoted their professional lives to studying it. Once you publish your research, the Nobel Memorial Prize in economics will shortly afterwards be yours. Congratulations!

I did an interservice exchange with the Canadian Air Force with their "Snowbirds" Aerial demonstration team. That showed me all I needed to know. Their equipment is junk and the Canadian Military is so lax in their performance and professionalism that no enemy should fear them. 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, mikebike said:

Just who in god's name do you think the US is protecting Canada from?

 

Cold war era legacy defense treaties were meant to codify the US protecting its own interests both geopolitically and resource-wise in case the Soviets ever came over the arctic.

 

I have never met a Canadian who lives in fear of being attacked by anyone...

At least from anyone not named Trump.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, PhonThong said:

I did an interservice exchange with the Canadian Air Force with their "Snowbirds" Aerial demonstration team. That showed me all I needed to know. Their equipment is junk and the Canadian Military is so lax in their performance and professionalism that no enemy should fear them. 

I have no use for alleged and unconfirmable personal experiences of posters of any stripe when it comes to political issues. Cite me some independently verifiable data.

But I do congratulate you on introducing an entirely irrelevant diversion into a thread about Nafta. 

[PhonThong]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I have no use for alleged and unconfirmable personal experiences of posters of any stripe when it comes to political issues. Cite me some independently verifiable data.

But I do congratulate you on introducing an entirely irrelevant diversion into a thread about Nafta. 

Ultimately Canada's going to have to start fighting fire with fire," he told reporters. 

Canada, made the threat. So, all things come into play.

Edited March 3, 2018 by PhonThong

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

Ultimately Canada's going to have to start fighting fire with fire," he told reporters. 

Canada, made the threat. So, all things come into play.

Got any evidence at all that defense arrangements are going to be an issue? Has the Trump administration made the slightest noise in that direction?

 

[metisdead]

A post containing offensive off topic trolling comments has been removed. 

[Becker]

The man-child is starting a trade war with the world and everyone on the planet loses - most definitively including his base supporters. The Dow fell 400 points when the abomination opened his stinking mouth about imposing tariffs.

MAGA my @$$

 

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/02/news/economy/europe-steel-tariff-retaliation-trump/index.html

Edited March 3, 2018 by Becker

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, PhonThong said:

Sanctions from the Canadians? What is the U.S. ever to do? If Canada starts a sanction war, they would be on their own for their own for the cost of their own defense. That would cost them much, much, more. I lived not far from the U.S. Canadian border. Never gave it any thought that Canada was there. They had absolutely no effect on my life. Wouldn't miss them if they went their own way. 

Now China and Europe want to retaliate, go for it Trump, bring on a recession, you know it makes sense, you can blame it on fake news or Obama.

[mtls2005]

I still contend this has more to do with the PA 18th special election and is just Trump sounding off. 

 

Bush's similar steel tariff in 2002 was similarly politically motivated and widely judged to be counter-productive, if not an abject failure.

 

Once that election, in ~ 2 weeks, is over he'll move on to some other "issue". Hopefully.

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, PhonThong said:

Sanctions from the Canadians? What is the U.S. ever to do? If Canada starts a sanction war, they would be on their own for their own for the cost of their own defense. That would cost them much, much, more. I lived not far from the U.S. Canadian border. Never gave it any thought that Canada was there. They had absolutely no effect on my life. Wouldn't miss them if they went their own way. 

They will have a trade war with the EU, which will cost the US citizens money.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, PhonThong said:

I did an interservice exchange with the Canadian Air Force with their "Snowbirds" Aerial demonstration team. That showed me all I needed to know. Their equipment is junk and the Canadian Military is so lax in their performance and professionalism that no enemy should fear them. 

What has that to do with the trade war? You DO know that this is not an actual war with weapons do you?

[Becker]

55 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Now China and Europe want to retaliate, go for it Trump, bring on a recession, you know it makes sense, you can blame it on fake news or Obama.

For the remaining man-child supporters it doesn't matter anyway since it's all about that pipe dream MAWA. Hopefully that can comfort them as they lose their jobs, health care and social benefits.

[ilostmypassword]

Trump made tariff decision in a fit of anger: NBC News

 

The White House was caught off guard by Trump's Thursday announcement of new tariffs, NBC reports.

Trump made the decision in a fit of anger as his administration was dogged by negative headlines.

Citing an internal document, NBC reported that White House lawyers and staff had not conducted any review of the drastic change Trump suddenly made to U.S. trade policy.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/trump-made-tariff-decision-in-a-fit-of-anger-nbc-news.html