Urgent Questions

[toddy]

Just pondering the legalities:

Retail business under a certain amount is forbidden to aliens. I have often witnessed farang openly going over accounts in their restaurant / bar etc. Is this because they are employed by their own company in a managerial capacity rather than as a waiter or cleaner? Is it legal to be the manager of a company that exists in a forbidden trade?

If my wife opens a business and I want nothing to do with it, what is the liklehood of being accused of working if I pop in for a coffee or whatever? This is genuine and I truly am not someone who has put everything in their wife's name to avoid tax etc etc.

Why do many farang business owners not possess a work permit? Obviously this cannot be legal because if you own a business you must have something to do at least with planning / accounting and therefore you are earning.

Can my wife open a minimart type of business as a sole trader or is she legally required to form a legal company?

Any info. would be seriously welcome.

Cheers.

[Indo-Siam]

Hi Toddy -

As long as a company is majority Thai-owned, it may legally employ foreigners. In general, foreigners need to be earning qualifying salaries that are way above what would make sense, if they work as a minmart counter staff person.

The key is majority Thai ownership of shares - at either 50% + 1 share, or 60% + 1 share, depending on the business. Full details at: http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/foreign.html

Employment that is restricted for foreingers is that which requires license certification - doctor, lawyer, architect, practicing engineer, and similar.

Your Thai wife may operate as a sole proprietor. Downsides: Personal liability for all claims against the company, up to her total personal assets; and taxation of all revenues at her personal income tax rate - which climbs to 37% for all INCOME above 4 million baht per year.

Corporate tax is 20% on first 1 one million baht of annual PROFIT, 25% on 2nd million, and tops out at 30% for all profit above 2 million baht.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[taxexile]

Employment that is restricted for foreingers is that which requires license certification - doctor, lawyer, architect, practicing engineer, and similar.

but there seem to be quite a few foriegn lawyers,doctors,osteopaths working here.

any idea how they get around it ??

[Indo-Siam]

I do not believe you will find any such professionals practicing their professions here (although there are evidently some very old foreign lawyers practicing, who are grandfathered under rules from 20-30 years ago).

I.e. foreign doctors, and architects, and lawyers and engineers here cannot sign off, or argue cases, or perform surgery here. The can launch and direct businesses that perform these functions - but the actual practitioners must be Thai citizens.

I have twice been involved with legal challenges here by foreign-owned law firms, wherein the foreign directors tried to approach me as if they were lawyers. I made short work of them. I am convinced that 95% of the foreigners running law forms here are "dregs of the earth" types - disgracefully poor. One exception: The American lawyer who heads up the Intellectual Property practice at Tilleke & Gibbens - he is first rate.

Good lawyers, doctors, engineers want to actually practice their professions - they don't go off to places where they cannot actually practice.

The above reflects my understanding, and my opinions. I am not fully informed on all possibilities - i.e., there might be some formal research program where exchange surgeons are allowed to perform experimental procedures, and such. But - in general - the professions are protected employment for Thais.

If you have an example of a foreigner performing surgery, or signing off as engineer on a bridge or building, or actually arguing a Thai court case as a trial lawyer (as opposed to being an "expert witness"), I'd be interested to know about such examples. I've never run accross any such cases here.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[taxexile]

thanks for the reply. watch your back for any upset lawyers here !!!

[Sel]

A friend who is a new zealander was offered a functioning engineering position on the last bridge they built from Thailand to Loa (5 or 6 years ago?). He didn't take it but another foreigner took it. I think a French guy. (It was a French Engineering company I think) The newest bridge accross the Choa Phaya was built by the chinese. I lived a couple of hundred meters from it overlooking the river and frequently saw hard hatted supervisors that really didn't seem like Thais (appearance, dress and manner etc but not positive) I'm quite sure especially for large scale engineering projects that outside professionals (engineers) have to be involved and they have to be 'signing off' as they are responsible for safety etc at some point.

As an example the underground. I don't think the thais had the expertise to build the tunnels. A joint venture builds it but they would have to hire specialist foreign engineers. They would need foreign engineers for the cutting/drilling machines working at the face (if they used them) even doing the concrete/formwork, or possibly even a foreign mechanical engineer with a local team maintaining the specialised machinery. Construction would go on 24 hrs a day on a shift rotation. At some point one of the foreigners would also be responsible for day to day workers safety as this duty is rotated around amongst the project engineers.

[Indo-Siam]

If I'm not mistaken, all those foreign experts can work on a project in Thailand, but every official sign-off (required by the Thai government) must be accomplished by a Thai. No foreign engineering firm that needs to certify its work here can operate in Thailand without Thai engineers to do the signing. The same for architects, and legal services firms.

This is my understanding - but I've never "walked a mile in these moccasins."

No question that foreign engineering exprets do the "heavy lifting" behind the scenes, but everything must bear the signature of a Thai professional to be legal.

Is there anyone reading thsi who actially works on such projects, and can comment from direct knowledge?

Steve

Indo-Siam

[Sel]

I doubt if anyone doing such a job would be on this forum, but I find it highly unlikely that an engineer on such a project, (a large responsibility being safety) would give the signing off duties to a subordinate. I think you would find that an engineer is a true peofessional and would be legally responsible for what happens on thier watch.

[DeDanan]

I doubt if anyone doing such a job would be on this forum,

Is Sel questioning the calibre of member on this forum ?

[Indo-Siam]

Ahh - I think perhaps it is you who does not undertsand. This is Thailand. It operates primarily to benefit Thais. It is EXACTLY Thai policy to ensure that no project of any type can be certified without Thais signing off on everything. Foreign engineers, may not like this, but that is tough. They must prepare and approve everything, but then get a Thai to do the actual signing.

Similarly, no foreign engineering firm here can bid on large government infrastructure projects in Thailand without taking on as local partner a Thai-owned engineering firm - and the Thai firm must be the lead firm (or co-lead) - no matter that the gtail is wagging the dog. This I do know - because my firm has been directly involved with assisting an overseas client with a survey of large infrastructure project sponsors here - we visited the State Railway of Thailand, Ports Authority of Thailand, Metropolitan Water Works Authority, Bangkok Mass Transit Authority, Wastewater Management Authority, and Airports of Thailand Public Co. Ltd.

Professionals and professional firms CANNOT play here without having Thais as the front men. And I do think that this fact dicsourages good physicians and legal practitioners from setting up consultancies here - because they want to practice. Engineers and architects aren't so picky - I think they are alreday accustomed to living with various sign-off levels, and no one cares if the that final sign-off is of a local language document, by a local "figurehead".

Indo-Siam