3 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Germany runs the EU and the EU runs. . .  Not rocket science, really.

Strawman argument.

 

You need to go back and educate yourself on how the EU operates - start with the individual sovereign right to veto. 

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Strawman argument.

 

You need to go back and educate yourself on how the EU operates - start with the individual sovereign right to veto. 

Angela unilaterally declared an open-border situation. I'm sure she consuted other EU members!! Didn't we hear all about it?!

 

The biggest 'cat-out-of-bag' moment so far in the EU's doomation.

6 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Angela unilaterally declared an open-border situation. I'm sure she consuted other EU members!! Didn't we hear all about it?!

 

The biggest 'cat-out-of-bag' moment so far in the EU's doomation.

If you're talking about her opening the borders of Germany, she was under no obligation to consult other members. If you are asserting that she unilaterally opened the borders of the EU, that's nonsense.

 

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Strawman argument.

 

You need to go back and educate yourself on how the EU operates - start with the individual sovereign right to veto. 

Say hello to the "strawman" that broke the camel's back.

 

You clearly need educating on Germany's dominance, neatly summed up by Wolfgang Münchau, one of the foremost experts on the Eurozone, in the Financial Times thus:

 

“They demoted the Eurozone into a toxic fixed exchange-rate system, with a shared single currency, run in the interests of Germany, held together by the threat of absolute destitution for those who challenge the prevailing order".

 

There's plenty more where this came from, if you care to look.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Say hello to the "strawman" that broke the camel's back.

 

You clearly need educating on Germany's dominance, neatly summed up by Wolfgang Münchau, one of the foremost experts on the Eurozone, in the Financial Times thus:

 

“They demoted the Eurozone into a toxic fixed exchange-rate system, with a shared single currency, run in the interests of Germany, held together by the threat of absolute destitution for those who challenge the prevailing order".

 

There's plenty more where this came from, if you care to look.

 

 

You need to understand the difference between the Eurozone and the EU. Maybe a reminder that the UK wisely chose to stay out of it might be a way to start.

52 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Angela unilaterally declared an open-border situation. I'm sure she consuted other EU members!! Didn't we hear all about it?!

 

The biggest 'cat-out-of-bag' moment so far in the EU's doomation.

There are two things you forget:

 

1. What were the circumstances leading to huge numbers of refugees arriving on Europe's boarder (What or who created that situation)?

 

2. What would have happened if Germany had not opened its boarders?

 

Give some thought to these questions. 

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Where did I say it'ok, are you saying that if we don't supply the Saudis nobody else will. So I ask you is my post incorrect?

And BTW if I had chickenpox you would have had german measels. As much as you would like to believe that Germany is at the centre of the universe, it isn't.

Trump would supply them in a flash. I thought we were better than that. ?

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There are two things you forget:

 

1. What were the circumstances leading to huge numbers of refugees arriving on Europe's boarder (What or who created that situation)?

 

2. What would have happened if Germany had not opened its boarders?

 

Give some thought to these questions.

I didn't see these questions being postulated on TVForum! Perhaps they were discussed. Must have missed the debate.

Edited March 10, 20188 yr by owl sees all

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Perhaps Britain relishes not being told what it can and cannot do by Germany in the future.

Complete no sequitur 

 

Rather embarrassing that Germany occupies the moral high ground while U.K. And USA will do ANYTHING for s fast buck ?

Just now, Grouse said:

Rather embarrassing that Germany occupies the moral high ground while U.K. And USA will do ANYTHING for s fast buck ?

And the gold reserves!

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

Well let somebody else supply them. The Uk should have a higher standard than this.

Norfolkandchance thinks that is sad. I don't. I would not sell nerve gas either. Do you have a moral limit? How about iron doors for gas chambers? Great margin I understand ?

When a private arms dealer wants to do business, the US (and I'm assuming the Brits also) come down on him like a ton of bricks.   The big boys don't want competition in arming the world.

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britain-and-saudi-arabia-to-strengthen-cultural-links-and-boost-trade

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-saudi-arabia-sign-memorandum-of-understanding-on-clean-energy

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-hosts-first-joint-executive-committee-on-healthcare-with-saudi-arabia

 

I have no idea how Scotland might fare in any of this but its fair to assume that they will.

Leaving the EU and getting in to bed with Saudi! 

 

OK, call me a racist if you like by I don't want ANY "culture" from these appalling people.

 

Great idea! 

What was that film where the Generals decided how many should die before the war began? The Governments then simply did away with a couple million apiece. Saved <----> loads of money. Kept buildings intact. Saved weapons for another day. Peace reigned. Order restored.

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Leaving the EU and getting in to bed with Saudi! 

 

OK, call me a racist if you like by I don't want ANY "culture" from these appalling people.

 

Great idea! 

Unfortunately that's far too late to stop though I wish we had.

Edited March 10, 20188 yr by evadgib

17 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You need to understand the difference between the Eurozone and the EU. Maybe a reminder that the UK wisely chose to stay out of it might be a way to start.

Hair-splitting. Not being a Eurozone member has not insulated the UK from the effects of  Germany's dominance of the EU.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/09/uk-wields-no-influence-in-german-dominated-eu-warns-iceland/

 

To quote another world-renowned authority, George Friedman, reflecting on the fate of Greece: “The Germans have long been visible as the controlling entity of the European Union. This time, they made no bones about it. Nor did they make any bones about their ferocity".

 

There's lots more authoritative opinion and analysis out there along the same lines for anyone who cares to look.

11 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Hair-splitting. Not being a Eurozone member has not insulated the UK from the effects of  Germany's dominance of the EU.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/09/uk-wields-no-influence-in-german-dominated-eu-warns-iceland/

 

To quote another world-renowned authority, George Friedman, reflecting on the fate of Greece: “The Germans have long been visible as the controlling entity of the European Union. This time, they made no bones about it. Nor did they make any bones about their ferocity".

 

There's lots more authoritative opinion and analysis out there along the same lines for anyone who cares to look.

Such a shame to see Brits quivering before German economic hegemony. Is that our best shot? Give up, leave and get into bed with Arabs? 

 

Pathetic

 

We should be staying and calling the shots. Sometimes I feel so ashamed about the demise of the UK and to see us snuggling up to the USA instead of leading our peers!

Edited March 10, 20188 yr by Grouse

Not sure how Brexit has been mixed up with Saudi arms deals and the UK needing cash from anywhere.

 

UK has been dealing arms with Saudi Arabia for decades ! (not saying it is right but it is fact) If that has to do with Brexit then Brits have brilliant foresight !

Just now, stuandjulie said:

Not sure how Brexit has been mixed up with Saudi arms deals and the UK needing cash from anywhere.

 

UK has been dealing arms with Saudi Arabia for decades ! (not saying it is right but it is fact) If that has to do with Brexit then Brits have brilliant foresight !

So says Stu and Julie. Both of you?

Like i always  say The world was quick to put the sanctions on North Korea, Cuba  but this murderous regime in Saudi Arabia which is a total dictatorship nothing is done against them Pays to have what everybody needs OIL They are a brutal  regime. Funny when money is involved  they seem to forget the morals like England has

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Complete no sequitur 

 

Rather embarrassing that Germany occupies the moral high ground while U.K. And USA will do ANYTHING for s fast buck ?

Germany needs to build it up a bit more to get out of past depths before it can establish any high ground!

Edited March 10, 20188 yr by jacko45k

7 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Britain's Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby shows The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia Mohammed bin Salman the Birmingham Koran manuscript

Couldn't Britain have at least balanced that with a visit to view the 1215 Magna Carta at the British Library? Probably would offend an absolute monarchy but it seems to be evolving somewhat now.

All this talk of Germany not selling arms to the Saudis....the aeroplane is called the Eurofighter Typhoon....

 

3 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I didn't see these questions being postulated on TVForum! Perhaps they were discussed. Must have missed the debate.

I rather hope the bounds of my own intellectual inquiry are never limited to what is discussed on TVF.

 

You meanwhile discuss Germany opening its boarders to refugees but struggle when asked to understand the background of how the refugees turned up at the boarder or the possible consequences if Germany had not opened its boarders. 

 

Well I have raised the questions now, so perhaps you'd give them some thought. 

3 hours ago, Happyman58 said:

Like i always  say The world was quick to put the sanctions on North Korea, Cuba  but this murderous regime in Saudi Arabia which is a total dictatorship nothing is done against them Pays to have what everybody needs OIL They are a brutal  regime. Funny when money is involved  they seem to forget the morals like England has

I agree but the underlying reasons why both US and UK dare not upset them is complex. Saudi problems (murderous regime) are not simple.

 

The US calls the shots. After Nixon dropped the gold standard in the early 1970s Saudi was persuaded to sell its oil and get in return bonds, backed by the Petro Dollar. Amounts differ but some think they hold up to 2 trillion dollar's worth of these bonds. Of course they are being paid to hold them by the US Treasury (FED private money). If these bonds were dumped onto the world market it would cause chaos.

 

There is also the possibility that the US would want Saudi and Iran to get into a little fisticuffs some time in the not too distant future. Iran has been on the US hit list for 20 years or so. Dire indeed, but very possible, Russia and China would support Iran. Who would support the US? Israel and UK!

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well I have raised the questions now, so perhaps you'd give them some thought.

Sorry about the delay in answering CH; been preparing our buffalo for the big race tomorrow. 

 

I've given them some thought. I like the Douglas Murray appraisal of the whole affair. Seems pretty near the mark to me.

 

As for TVForum. I learn something new every day.

Edited March 10, 20188 yr by owl sees all

26 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I like the Douglas Murray appraisal of the whole affair.

Why does that not surprise me. 

 

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

Such a shame to see Brits quivering before German economic hegemony. Is that our best shot? Give up, leave and get into bed with Arabs? 

 

Pathetic

 

We should be staying and calling the shots. Sometimes I feel so ashamed about the demise of the UK and to see us snuggling up to the USA instead of leading our peers!

The UK should stay and call the shots?  Just like we were doing prior to Brexit?  

3 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I agree but the underlying reasons why both US and UK dare not upset them is complex. Saudi problems (murderous regime) are not simple.

 

The US calls the shots. After Nixon dropped the gold standard in the early 1970s Saudi was persuaded to sell its oil and get in return bonds, backed by the Petro Dollar. Amounts differ but some think they hold up to 2 trillion dollar's worth of these bonds. Of course they are being paid to hold them by the US Treasury (FED private money). If these bonds were dumped onto the world market it would cause chaos.

 

There is also the possibility that the US would want Saudi and Iran to get into a little fisticuffs some time in the not too distant future. Iran has been on the US hit list for 20 years or so. Dire indeed, but very possible, Russia and China would support Iran. Who would support the US? Israel and UK!

Weren't you the person who predicted that collapse of US currency would take place by November?

 

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Weren't you the person who predicted that collapse of US currency would take place by November?

Yes ILMP; it was me. December this year.