TM-30 Question - Chiang Mai

[atecom]

I'm posting here, because I understand this can vary a little between different areas and office. But I have a few questions about the TM30 notification forms for the CM office.

 

I am planning on renting a Condo in Chiang Mai for a few months, while also doing a lot of travelling, but not sure how feasible this is with the TM30 requirements.

 

A ) So as I have it, any time I spend time at a hotel or a place outside of the Condo, I will need to inform my landlord of the dates of departure and date of return? Is this enough, can they process it with just that?

B )  The 1600 Baht fine for not updating residence (Assuming they decide to fine me instead of the owner), is that per occurrence of misreporting, or will I just get fined one 1600 when I visit the immigration office?

C ) I hear some condominiums have a TM30 Service. Does anyone know if Is this just like checking out and in at the condominium lobby whenever I leave and return, and giving them my passport.... etc, and they handle it from there?

 

How are other people getting this done? If I do the TM30 in person, how long does it usually take at CM immigration? (Not including travel time to there)

 

Regards

~Atecom

[CMBob]

You're asking only about updating a properly filed TM30 and it appears you're returning to the same residence each time you travel.  Presuming that's correct:

A )  So far (in spite of the statutory language and given CM Immigration rules could possibly change any time in the future), you only need to update when you return to Thailand from out of the country; in other words, you don't have to update if you only travel within Thailand.  If your landlord or your condo desk will update for you, fine; otherwise, you can do it yourself at Promenada or at Building #3 at the old (and soon to be new) Immigration site near the airport.  Time varies at Promenada (last time I did it there, a couple of years ago, it took about an hour) but typically you should expect 5-10 minutes doing it at Building #3.

B ) Don't know as I haven't been fined for not updating; however, I believe they only nail you for one 1,600 baht payment when you're caught for not doing it (which will likely be when you attempt to get your next extension).

C ) For those condo offices that handle the updating, typically you just tell them when you've returned from abroad (and attempt to get a copy of something they file so you can keep a copy in case you're every questioned about it at Immigration).  As for how your Condo office handles it (which seemingly is all you should want to know), simply ask them.  I'd note that I'd guess that a condo office would want to see your passport so they can verify your re-entry date and get your new departure card (TM6) number.

 

My landlord (townhouse owner) has no clue when I leave or return to Thailand so I handle the updating myself (only at Building #3 anymore).  It's simple and quick to do that....especially since I don't usually have to do it more than 2-3 times a year.  Just tell them you want to update your TM30 and hand them your passport (which hopefully has the TM30 Notice of Receipt and/or some condo office filing stapled in the back).  They'll just stamp a new date on your existing form or perhaps insert a new TM30 Notice of Receipt if it's a bit worn.  I'd also note that I update within 2-5 days of returning from abroad to my residence in Chiangmai....which timing is consistent with what a couple of Immigration officers have told me is acceptable. 

 

The above information is about updating only.  If you don't have an original TM30 filed for you at that address, you need to have that taken care of first.  And get some written proof of that retained in your passport. And, if you return from abroad to a different CM address, you've got to get another original TM30 filed.

[moe666]

After you do the TM-30 if your address doesn't make a change you keep the same TM-30/ My TM-30 is 1 year old and I have been to laos and when I did my extension of stay nothing was said

[CMBob]

6 minutes ago, moe666 said:

After you do the TM-30 if your address doesn't make a change you keep the same TM-30/ My TM-30 is 1 year old and I have been to laos and when I did my extension of stay nothing was said

Presuming nobody updated for you after you returned from Laos and then you got subsequently got your extension of stay without being nailed for a fine, it would appear you've been lucky (based on the reports of many others) and enforcement is hit and miss.  

[EricTh]

10 hours ago, CMBob said:

Presuming nobody updated for you after you returned from Laos and then you got subsequently got your extension of stay without being nailed for a fine, it would appear you've been lucky (based on the reports of many others) and enforcement is hit and miss.  

I got a fine from immigration at Promenada because my condo manager forgot to update my return to Thailand after I told him.

 

Luckily, my manager decided to reimburse me for the fine (I think it was 1900 baht)

 

In my opinion, all these updating of TM 30 is a waste of time and a money making scheme for the immigration.

 

We have to go to immigration every 90 days and we have to report if we go out of Thailand again.

 

Why is it necessary to report so often? Wouldn't it cut down the massive work of immigration if we report once every year instead like in other countries?

 

 

 

[EricTh]

11 hours ago, CMBob said:

You're asking only about updating a properly filed TM30 and it appears you're returning to the same residence each time you travel.  Presuming that's correct:

A )  So far (in spite of the statutory language and given CM Immigration rules could possibly change any time in the future), you only need to update when you return to Thailand from out of the country; in other words, you don't have to update if you only travel within Thailand.  If your landlord or your condo desk will update for you, fine; otherwise, you can do it yourself at Promenada or at Building #3 at the old (and soon to be new) Immigration site near the airport.  Time varies at Promenada (last time I did it there, a couple of years ago, it took about an hour) but typically you should expect 5-10 minutes doing it at Building #3.

B ) Don't know as I haven't been fined for not updating; however, I believe they only nail you for one 1,600 baht payment when you're caught for not doing it (which will likely be when you attempt to get your next extension).

C ) For those condo offices that handle the updating, typically you just tell them when you've returned from abroad (and attempt to get a copy of something they file so you can keep a copy in case you're every questioned about it at Immigration).  As for how your Condo office handles it (which seemingly is all you should want to know), simply ask them.  I'd note that I'd guess that a condo office would want to see your passport so they can verify your re-entry date and get your new departure card (TM6) number.

 

My landlord (townhouse owner) has no clue when I leave or return to Thailand so I handle the updating myself (only at Building #3 anymore).  It's simple and quick to do that....especially since I don't usually have to do it more than 2-3 times a year.  Just tell them you want to update your TM30 and hand them your passport (which hopefully has the TM30 Notice of Receipt and/or some condo office filing stapled in the back).  They'll just stamp a new date on your existing form or perhaps insert a new TM30 Notice of Receipt if it's a bit worn.  I'd also note that I update within 2-5 days of returning from abroad to my residence in Chiangmai....which timing is consistent with what a couple of Immigration officers have told me is acceptable. 

 

The above information is about updating only.  If you don't have an original TM30 filed for you at that address, you need to have that taken care of first.  And get some written proof of that retained in your passport. And, if you return from abroad to a different CM address, you've got to get another original TM30 filed.

 

Thanks for telling all these details. The immigration officers didn't bother to explain all these to me everytime I update. I just assumed that I get a new TM30 every time I update. Now,  I know I have to bring my old TM30 along.

 

They really do need to hire officers who can speak better English to explain all these different conditions.

 

Lastly, I don't understand why they need us to update at Promenada when they can do it at the airport when we fill up the immigration card after all they are the ones who stamped it. 

 

It's a waste of time and unnecessary work.

 

 

 

[CMBob]

6 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Lastly, I don't understand why they need us to update at Promenada when they can do it at the airport when we fill up the immigration card after all they are the ones who stamped it.....

To repeat, you can also update at Building #3 at the old (and about to be new) site near the airport.  I've done that there a few times and I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes to get it done there.  Building #3 is located on the back right.   

[Mahseer]

19 minutes ago, CMBob said:

To repeat, you can also update at Building #3 at the old (and about to be new) site near the airport.  I've done that there a few times and I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes to get it done there.  Building #3 is located on the back right.   

Last time I came back into the country I got into a taxi and had him do a U turn at Airport Plaza and parked up right out front of building #3. One of the students took my passport and stamped the TM30 that is stapled inside and I was away in literally 5 minutes. Excellent service.

[CMsojourner]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1f2M3V9dd6dwcdfj1iv1pqVEr-9E&t=k&hl=en&ll=18.77117903371264%2C98.97090269782711&z=19

[rumak]

This TM30 post is about the 5th one.   You can spend hours and get very confused reading everyone's

answers (and opinions ! ).  If everyone in CM would just copy what CMBob has posted and follow his

experience.......all will go smoothly.

For those of you who do NOT have a current TM30 receipt there will be problems.  Blame it on the Landlord or the guest house or apt or condo owner....But there will be a problem at some time (and probably a fight with immigration or the landlord about the fine).  To prevent FUTURE problems always be sure to get a tm30 receipt immediately when entering a NEW residence ! The best way to assure that you get one is go with

the owner/manager the very first day.  Or be sure they give it to you !

[NancyL]

CMBob is the local TM30 guru, so take heed of what he says.

 

Hubby and I are fortunate to live in a condo that will update resident's TM30s online, if, and this is a big if, returning residents ask them to do so.  It's not their job to keep track of our comings and goings.  They do a "screen print" of what they input into the Imm. system as their form form of a receipt, with the condo mgr signature and condo stamp on the screen print for good measure.

 

Recently, I discovered one advantage of having the condo office keep the TM30 up-to-date is that I was able to do Hubby's 90 day report online even though it was the first 90 day report after having been out of the country.  Used to be that it was impossible to do a 90 day report online if it was your first with a new departure card number.  Apparently,  in updating the TM30 online, the Imm. system now recognizes Hubby's new departure card number and permitted online reporting.  It did sit in "pending" for four days and we were starting to think a trip to Prom. for an in-person 90 day report was in Hubby's near future, but then he received the email showing it as "approved" the day before he planned his trip to Prom. 

[tijnebijn]

Hi , it has been a while being active on the forum . I stayed on mostly non O's through the years . I 've been out of the country two years now and I only visit my family once a year at the moment. Luckily I still haven't been through the tm30's .But in a couple of years I will be back permanently home and will have to adapt to the new changes.....Wonder though should I start with the tm's when I return or should I already on my next visa exempt entry while visiting a couple of weeks .....Have never done this in almost 20 years but it is required now so....Hope the new airport place turns out the better for all of us. Nancy respect for all the hardship at immigration...so now and then I follow the updates , and clearly the best thing when out is not having to deal with any of this voor for me.Unfortunately I have to when I come back. So maybe someone can clarify the tm30 thing to me .

 

 

 

[CMBob]

8 hours ago, tijnebijn said:

......But in a couple of years I will be back permanently home and will have to adapt to the new changes.....Wonder though should I start with the tm's when I return or should I already on my next visa exempt entry while visiting a couple of weeks .....Have never done this in almost 20 years but it is required now so.....

In spite of the law being around for a very long time, CM Immigration only began using it against us individual expats (hotels, guesthouses, etc., have been reporting online as long as I can remember) a few years back.  Because of a very few reports of people being refused service at Immigration and being fined, I talked my townhouse landlord into filing a TM30 for me (until I mentioned it, he had no idea what it was about) and he was fined 3,000 baht on the spot (because I had already lived in this townhouse for 4-5 years at the time).

 

I've never heard of anybody on visa exempt being fined or hassled because a TM30 wasn't filed for them....and that's probably because those people don't request or need any Immigration services (so far, enforcement and/or fines has apparently only happened when somebody needs service....an extension, for example....at CM Immigration).  Based on that, I would recommend that you don't bother with it so long as you're only staying here for short times on visa exempt entries.  When you extend your stays,  you'll then need to get an original TM30 filed for you and also need to start updating each time you happen to leave and re-enter Thailand.  

 

You've mentioned you won't be starting your longer stay here until a couple more years.  Given two years is a long time for CM Immigration rules, you might want to periodically check to see what may or may not have changed with respect to enforcement of this and other Immigration rules.  I (and likely they) have no clue what the local rules will be then. 

[NancyL]

Good advice, CMBob.  Interestingly, when people who arrive with 30-day visa exempt status go to CM Imm. to get their "automatic" 30 day extension, they aren't questioned about whether a TM30 was filed on their behalf.  Heck, many of them are doing good if they can come up with the address of the place where they are staying.

 

My personal favorite is the conversation I overheard at the Info desk in front of Imm. Prom, when a young tourist, with a heavy backpack was seeking a 30 day extension and couldn't supply a local address.  He was trying to explain to the interns he'd just arrived on the overnight train from Bangkok and hadn't yet found a place to stay in Chiang Mai.  Finally, an old-timer behind him said to write down "The Railway Hotel, Chiang Mai" which he did and everyone was happy.  The Railway Hotel hasn't existed for years.  

[sanemax]

24 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Interestingly, when people who arrive with 30-day visa exempt status go to CM Imm. to get their "automatic" 30 day extension, they aren't questioned about whether a TM30 was filed on their behalf.

Isnt it only necessary to fill in a TM30 form, if you stay in Thailand for longer than 90 days ?

[EricTh]

On 3/11/2018 at 10:40 AM, CMBob said:

To repeat, you can also update at Building #3 at the old (and about to be new) site near the airport.  I've done that there a few times and I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes to get it done there.  Building #3 is located on the back right.   

 

It's not only the waiting time, it's the cost of travelling ie. petrol/transport cost that is the main problem here.

 

Not all of us live in Chiang Mai central. Some of us live in suburbs like Sansai, Sankham Phaeng etc.

 

If the update is at the same building as immigration counters, it would be much better, we can just walk to it.

 

Even if the building is near, we still need to drive there and after a tiring trip from abroad, the first thing we need is to have a good sleep back home.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thailand]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

Isnt it only necessary to fill in a TM30 form, if you stay in Thailand for longer than 90 days ?

No. A TM 30 should be filed and endorsed on arrival within 24 hours preferably.

Or if residing at a new address it should be filed by the housemaster/landlord etc,again within 24 hours.

[atecom]

Ok, thanks for the info.

 

My main worry is if they decide to change their minds and say you have to have filled out the TM 30 for returning from domestic travel, if I do so 10 times before needing immigration services, Its not too horrible to pay 1600 Baht, but I don't want to be out 16000 Baht.

 

 

[Dante99]

If you walk into immigration on your hands with your ankles crossed they will give you a waiver for the TM30 so you are exempt from filing or updating it for 270 days.  That is of course only if you first filed your TM30 4 or more years ago and still have that receipt in your PP.

 

There may be some other variations on the TM 30 situations and requirements that have not been covered in the 7465 posts on the 89 threads on the topic but they would be cases requiring a psychologist.

[MaeJoMTB]

On 3/10/2018 at 8:37 PM, atecom said:

How are other people getting this done? If I do the TM30 in person, how long does it usually take at CM immigration? (Not including travel time to there)

Depends if you have a 30/60/90 day VISA and don't do extensions, you never visit CM immigration, so it doesn't matter.

[Thailand]

Post 8 is one of the most useful if you return during normal working hours.

Other than that, 2 choices, Promenada or Building 3 within the allotted time frame.

Did TM30 report at Promenada for new tenants yesterday, arrived just before 1pm, ticket 3, out by 1.15pm. Two in front of me simply requiring endorsements on return were in and out in a couple of minutes and the officers were serving others as I left.

[Thailand]

Post 8 is one of the most useful if you return during normal working hours.

Other than that, 2 choices, Promenada or Building 3 within the allotted time frame.

Did TM30 report at Promenada for new tenants yesterday, arrived just before 1pm, ticket 3, out by 1.15pm. Two in front of me simply requiring endorsements on return were in and out in a couple of minutes and the officers were serving others as I left.

[Lizard2010]

Recently i was in 2 Hospitals after a accident

Do i have to advise immigration about my return to my Condo

I have a TM30 from my Condo Owner

 

[Bill97]

Recently i was in 2 Hospitals after a accident
Do i have to advise immigration about my return to my Condo
I have a TM30 from my Condo Owner
 

Of course. Also if you return home after midnight more than twice a month.


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Of course. Also if you return home after midnight more than twice a month.


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Why do we have to report to immigration after a stay at a hospital?

This is too much unnecessary reporting

[CMBob]

2 hours ago, Lizard2010 said:

Recently i was in 2 Hospitals after a accident

Do i have to advise immigration about my return to my Condo

I have a TM30 from my Condo Owner

 

No (presuming you never left Thailand).  In spite of the actual wording of the statute [which plainly says that an update is required for anyone gone from their home (registered address) for more than 24 hours], CM Immigration isn't currently enforcing that part of the statute.

[MaeJoMTB]

3 minutes ago, CMBob said:

No (presuming you never left Thailand).  In spite of the actual wording of the statute [which plainly says that an update is required for anyone gone from their home (registered address) for more than 24 hours], CM Immigration isn't currently enforcing that part of the statute.

Isn't the wording in Thai?

[CMBob]

4 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Isn't the wording in Thai?

Of course....but there's a translate version somewhere in case you want to find it. 

[MaeJoMTB]

40 minutes ago, CMBob said:

Of course....but there's a translate version somewhere in case you want to find it. 

But then you aren't discussing the 'actual wording', but a translation of the wording.

There is a reason English translations of Thai legal documents aren't valid in Thai courts.

[CMBob]

2 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

 There is a reason English translations of Thai legal documents aren't valid in Thai courts.

About as thoughtful as my suggesting there is a reason British courts don't accept presentation of one of their laws in Thai.  Or are you perhaps suggesting that the English translations are somehow deficient (if so, please advise of the deficiencies). 

 

Regardless, more than one of the Thai law firms have posted on the web English versions of the Thai Immigration Act.  One such firm's language (which appears identical to all other versions I've seen) for Section 38:

Section 38

The housemaster, the owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager where the alien, receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed, must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours, dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area, the local police official for that area must be notified.

In case the house, dwelling place, or hotel where the alien has stayed under provision of paragraph 1 is located within the Bangkok area, such notification must be reported to the competent official at the Immigration Division.

Making notification, in reference to the paragraph 1 and 2 of this Section, must comply with regulations prescribed by the Director General.

There's even a shortened version on a sign hanging on the outside wall of the Immigration Office at Promenada....which I'll attempt to attach.