Russia expels 23 British diplomats as crisis over nerve toxin attack deepens

[rooster59]

Russia expels 23 British diplomats as crisis over nerve toxin attack deepens

By Andrew Osborn and Polina Devitt

 

A Russian police car parks outside the British embassy in Moscow, Russia, March 17, 2018. REUTERS/David Mdzinarishvili

 

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia expelled 23 British diplomats on Saturday in a carefully calibrated retaliatory move against London, which has accused the Kremlin of orchestrating a nerve toxin attack on a former Russian double agent and his daughter in southern England.

 

Escalating a crisis in relations, Russia said it was also shutting down the activities of the British Council, which fosters cultural links between the two countries, and Britain's consulate-general in St. Petersburg.

 

The Russian Foreign Ministry said it was giving the 23 British diplomats one week to leave the country.

 

The move, which was tougher than expected, followed Britain's decision on Wednesday to expel 23 Russian diplomats over the attack in the English city of Salisbury which left former Russian spy Sergei Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia Skripal, 33, critically ill in hospital.

 

Moscow announced the measures on the eve of a presidential election which incumbent Vladimir Putin should comfortably win.

Putin has cast his country as a fortress besieged by hostile Western powers with him as its defender, and state media is likely to portray the anti-British move in that context.

 

The Foreign Ministry said Moscow's measures were a response to what it called Britain's "provocative actions and groundless accusations". It warned London it stood ready to take further measures in the event of more "unfriendly steps".

 

Relations between London and Moscow have crashed to a post-Cold War low over the Salisbury attack, the first known offensive use of a nerve agent in Europe since World War Two.

 

British Prime Minister Theresa May said Britain would consider its next steps alongside its allies in the coming days.

 

"We will never tolerate a threat to the life of British citizens and others on British soil from the Russian Government. We can be reassured by the strong support we have received from our friends and allies around the world," May said at the Conservative Party's spring forum in London.

 

The Russian Foreign Ministry summoned the British ambassador, Laurie Bristow, to a meeting on Saturday morning in central Moscow at its Stalin-era headquarters during which he was informed of the retaliatory measures.

 

Bristow told reporters afterwards that Britain had only expelled the Russian diplomats after Moscow had failed to explain how the nerve toxin had got to Salisbury.

 

Britain's foreign ministry said it had anticipated Russia's response and its priority now looking after its staff in Russia and assisting those that will return home.

 

"Russia’s response doesn’t change the facts of the matter - the attempted assassination of two people on British soil, for which there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian State was culpable." it said in a statement.

 

WAR OF WORDS

 

Russia's response was more robust than expected. The closure of the British Council's Moscow office will sever cultural ties, while that of the consulate-general in St Petersburg will end Britain's diplomatic presence in Russia's second city.

 

Russian news agencies cited politicians in Russia's upper house of parliament as welcoming the move to close the British Council, alleging it had been used as a cover by British spies.

 

The British Council said it was profoundly disappointed by Russia's decision and remained committed to developing long-term people-to-people links with Russia despite the closure.

 

Russia has complained that Britain has failed to provide any evidence of its involvement in the Salisbury attack and has said it is shocked and bemused by the allegations.

 

Britain has escalated a war of words with Russia over the incident in recent days. On Friday, British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said it was overwhelmingly likely that Russian President Vladimir Putin himself had made the decision to use a military-grade nerve toxin to strike down Skripal.

 

Britain, the United States, Germany and France have jointly called on Russia to explain the attack, while U.S. President Donald Trump has said it looks as if the Russians were behind it.

 

Russia has said is open to cooperation with Britain, but has refused Britain's demands to explain how Novichok, a nerve agent developed by the Soviet military, was used against the Skripals.

 

Skripal, a former colonel in the GRU who betrayed dozens of Russian agents to British intelligence, and his daughter have been critically ill since March 4, when they were found unconscious on a bench.

 

A British policeman was also poisoned when he went to help them and remains in a serious but stable condition.

 

Russian investigators said on Friday they had opened a criminal investigation into the attempted murder of Yulia Skripal and offered to cooperate with British authorities.

 

Russia offered some cooperation to British authorities after the 2006 London murder of ex-KGB agent Alexander Litvinenko too.

 

Britain said the assistance in that case was not enough, and in 2016, a judge-led inquiry concluded that Putin had probably approved Litvinenko's murder, something Moscow denies.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-03-17

[evadgib]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/salisbury-attack-statement-following-british-ambassadors-meeting-with-russian-government

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/britain-needs-its-allies-to-stand-with-us-against-russia-article-by-boris-johnson

[spidermike007]

King Vlad is simply doing what he was trained to do, and deflecting the best he can. Denial, deflection, obfuscation, and lying. He is trained in all of those skills. The work of the KGB. And assassination. In my mind, there is little doubt of his guilt. He kills his detractors and perceived enemies. It all adds up. Now, the dictator is trying to avoid having his country becoming a worldwide pariah state. It is fairly easy for him to get away with these kinds of stunts in Russia, as there is no free press, and he has developed this strongman persona. I think most Russians just do not care. But, outside of Russia he is held accountable. Dictators hate that.

[buick]

i was hoping putin would one up the british by expelling 24 diplomats (versus the 23 russians expelled by the british).  little disappointed in you, mr. putin.

[dick dasterdly]

I posted in the ' Corbyn warns against' etc. thread :-

 

"Govts. know that a number of 'diplomatic staff' are actually spies/agents - and throw them out every now and again as part of 'the game' (and more importantly, for media purposes....) - to make it look as if they're reacting strongly to an 'attack' from the other country - to boost their popularity...."

 

This latest expulsion of 23 Brit. diplomats by the Russians rather proves my point !

Edited March 18, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[lockyv7]

I was supprised to see a live broadcast of the UN emergancy meeting on this matter thismorning on TV 

 

 

 

[StraightTalk]

44 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

King Vlad is simply doing what he was trained to do, and deflecting the best he can. Denial, deflection, obfuscation, and lying. He is trained in all of those skills. The work of the KGB. And assassination.

Entering "Wormwood" into any Internet search engine and reading the coming after results may bring some balance to your post. The Netflix mini-series is quite revealing and eye-opening also.

[lanista]

Russia has every right to expel  23 Brits. The UK gov is assuming Putin had something to do with the poisoning without  hard evidence. This bias in the western media about everything Russian is out of control.  Theyre now trying to cut transmission of RT TV in the west,. RT gives a professional second opinion on all the dribble that CNN and BBC go on with everyday.

[RuamRudy]

59 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

King Vlad is simply doing what he was trained to do, and deflecting the best he can. Denial, deflection, obfuscation, and lying. He is trained in all of those skills. The work of the KGB. And assassination. In my mind, there is little doubt of his guilt. He kills his detractors and perceived enemies. It all adds up. Now, the dictator is trying to avoid having his country becoming a worldwide pariah state. It is fairly easy for him to get away with these kinds of stunts in Russia, as there is no free press, and he has developed this strongman persona. I think most Russians just do not care. But, outside of Russia he is held accountable. Dictators hate that.

A simple way to clear up the doubt would be for the British government to present evidence to validate their claims.

 

Alex Thomson, chief correspondant for C4 News in the UK (one of the more respected and impartial tv news channels in the country) has gone on record to say that the scientists at Porton Down are unable to confirm the origin of the substance, and are resentful at the pressure put on them by the UK government to do so.

[StraightTalk]

2 minutes ago, lanista said:

The UK gov is assuming Putin had something to do with the poisoning without  hard evidence

It certainly looks that way, an element of doubt comes to mind:

1. Iran synthesied Novichok nerve agents in cooperation with the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW). The fact that Iran can do it shows that others can do it, the chemical structure can be found on the net.

2. The Russian scientist, Vil Mirzayanov, who originally helped develop the nerve agent Novichok believed to have been used in the poisoning of a Russian double agent in Britain said other countries could have also produced test samples of the substance.
Mirzayanov said he had published the formula for the agents — known as novichok — in a 2008 English-language book called State Secrets: An Insider's Chronicle Of The Russian Chemical Weapons Program Secrets.

“The British could certainly have synthesized it on the basis of the formulas that I published in my book,” Mirzayanov said in the interview conducted at his home in New Jersey.

“Each country takes care of its own security, and as part of the study of possible threats, a model could have been created,” he said.

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, lanista said:

Russia has every right to expel  23 Brits. The UK gov is assuming Putin had something to do with the poisoning without  hard evidence. This bias in the western media about everything Russian is out of control.  Theyre now trying to cut transmission of RT TV in the west,. RT gives a professional second opinion on all the dribble that CNN and BBC go on with everyday.

Now that is delusional

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

A simple way to clear up the doubt would be for the British government to present evidence to validate their claims.

 

Alex Thomson, chief correspondant for C4 News in the UK (one of the more respected and impartial tv news channels in the country) has gone on record to say that the scientists at Porton Down are unable to confirm the origin of the substance, and are resentful at the pressure put on them by the UK government to do so.

Samples are indeed being independently evaluated. Of course they know WHAT it is but they need additional information from the samples. Russia can supply samples if it So wishes for quantitative and qualitative analysis.

 

BTW, there was solid evidence of the polonium trail and Russia refused to hand over the culprits.

 

overall, maybe insufficient proof to send someone for execution but certainly enough proof to sanction Russia.

 

UK should be careful not kick RT out. It's crap but allowing BBC broadcasts into Russia must harm Putin.

[lanista]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Now that is delusional

Since when is asking for the facts delusional?

 

Have you seen RT  TV?.  Do you even know what it is? 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Samples are indeed being independently evaluated. Of course they know WHAT it is but they need additional information from the samples. Russia can supply samples if it So wishes for quantitative and qualitative analysis.

 

BTW, there was solid evidence of the polonium trail and Russia refused to hand over the culprits.

 

overall, maybe insufficient proof to send someone for execution but certainly enough proof to sanction Russia.

 

UK should be careful not kick RT out. It's crap but allowing BBC broadcasts into Russia must harm Putin.

According to the Russians, all chemical weapons research labs under the UN have samples. According to post #10 by Southern Delight, Iran has made the stuff too.

 

Re: Litvinenko, I am not sceptical there; enough evidence was provided to lead back to, if not Putin, definitely his cronies. But I am reluctant to get out my pirchfork so readily, not at least until there is something tangible presented by the government.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

33 minutes ago, lanista said:

Russia has every right to expel  23 Brits. The UK gov is assuming Putin had something to do with the poisoning without  hard evidence. This bias in the western media about everything Russian is out of control.  Theyre now trying to cut transmission of RT TV in the west,. RT gives a professional second opinion on all the dribble that CNN and BBC go on with everyday.

 OK Comrade, so where did the Russian poison come from, and how did it end up in England?

 

And if not Russia, then who would want to assassinate an ex-Russian agent turned informer?

 

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

According to the Russians, all chemical weapons research labs under the UN have samples. According to post #10 by Southern Delight, Iran has made the stuff too.

 

Re: Litvinenko, I am not sceptical there; enough evidence was provided to lead back to, if not Putin, definitely his cronies. But I am reluctant to get out my pirchfork so readily, not at least until there is something tangible presented by the government.

 

"But I am reluctant to get out my pirchfork so readily, not at least until there is something tangible presented by the government."

 

I've no desire to get my pitchfork out at all.... 

[meechai]

Last night I watched the news from Washington, the capitol
The Russians escaped while we weren't watching them, like Russians will
Now we've got all this room, we've even got the moon
And I hear the U.S.S.R. will be open soon
As vacation land for lawyers in love

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, SouthernDelight said:

CNN, BBC, FOX, RT and most other news outlets with large following are biased without fail; It's sad but verifiable true. News sources from above ranking publications as opposed to scanning half-page headlines of tabloids or TV maybe a better option. Naturally, one has to be aware of the (written) published biases which after some studying can easily be discriminated.

Russia Today and Fox news does not belong to same news category as BBC. Don't even try to present them as equal. That's just stupid and misleading. 

 

 

 

[StraightTalk]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

so where did the Russian poison come from

Just because the Mercedes or VW cars are German origin does not mean all cars of these makes are made in Germany. I.e. technologies from all field can be exported either by choice or unintentionally or stolen by a spy organisation.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Russia Today and Fox news does not belong to same news category as BBC. Don't even try to present them as equal. That's just stupid and misleading.

 

Not to mention that RT is funded by the Russian government, and effectively serves as a broadcasting mouthpiece for the same.

 

Quote

RT has been frequently described as a propaganda outlet for the Russian government^[13][14][15] and its foreign policy.^{[13][15][16][17][18][19]} RT has also been accused of spreading disinformation^[19][20][21] by news reporters,^[22][23] including some former RT reporters.^[24][25][26] The United Kingdom media regulator, Ofcom, has repeatedly found RT to have breached rules on impartiality and of broadcasting "materially misleading" content.^{[27][28][29][30]} On 13 November 2017, RT America officially registered as a "foreign agent" with the United States Department of Justice under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Under the act, RT will be required to disclose financial information.^[31]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

 

[StraightTalk]

8 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Russia Today and Fox news does not belong to same news category as BBC. Don't even try to present them as equal. That's just stupid and misleading. 

You may be on to something here. Though not a TV (news) person myself, I understand BBC is in a downward spiral for quite some time.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, SouthernDelight said:

Just because the Mercedes or VW cars are German origin does not mean all cars of these makes are made in Germany. I.e. technologies from all field can be exported either by choice or unintentionally or stolen by a spy organisation.

 

Yes, and just because Russia and Putin were pretty clearly responsible for the prior assasination of Litvinenko in the UK in similar background circumstances and similar methodology, it's not unreasonable to believe that Russia and Putin were behind this latest episode as well. It's not like they don't have a pretty well established track record in this area.
 

Quote

 

On 1 November 2006, Litvinenko suddenly fell ill and was hospitalised in what was established as a case of poisoning by radioactive polonium-210; he died from the poisoning on 23 November. He became the first known victim of lethal polonium 210-induced acute radiation syndrome.^[7] The events leading up to this are a matter of controversy, spawning numerous theories relating to his poisoning and death. A British murder investigation pointed to Andrey Lugovoy, a former member of Russia's Federal Protective Service, as the prime suspect. Britain demanded that Lugovoy be extradited, which is against the Constitution of Russia, which directly prohibits^[8] extradition of Russian citizens. Russia denied the extradition, leading to the cooling of relations between Russia and the United Kingdom.

 

After Litvinenko's death, his widow, Marina, pursued a vigorous campaign on behalf of her husband through the Litvinenko Justice Foundation. In October 2011, she won the right for an inquest into her husband's death to be conducted by a coroner in London; the inquest was repeatedly set back by issues relating to examinable evidence.^[9] A public inquiry began on 27 January 2015,^[10] and concluded in January 2016 that Litvinenko's murder was an FSB operation, that was probably personally approved by Vladimir Putin.^[11]

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko

[StraightTalk]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The United Kingdom media regulator, Ofcom, has repeatedly found RT to have breached rules on impartiality and of broadcasting "materially misleading" content

'The BBC Myth of a Public Service' makes excellent and educational reading.

[StraightTalk]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Yes, and just because Russia and Putin were pretty clearly responsible for the prior assasination of Litvinenko in the UK in similar background circumstances and similar methodology, it's not unreasonable to believe that Russia and Putin were behind this latest episode as well. It's not like they don't have a pretty well established track record in this area.

I agree, but any believe (reasonable or not) is nothing but speculation. Me thinks Maggy & Boris jumped the gun.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And of course, Litvinenko, a former Russian FSB agent, had his own views of just what Putin and the Russian agents were capable of:
 

Quote

 

In November 1998, Litvinenko and several other FSB officers publicly accused their superiors of ordering the assassination of the Russian tycoon and oligarch Boris Berezovsky.

....

During his time in London, Litvinenko wrote two books, Blowing Up Russia: Terror from Within and Lubyanka Criminal Group, wherein he accused the Russian secret services of staging the Russian apartment bombings and other terrorism acts in an effort to bring Vladimir Putin to power. He also accused Putin of ordering the murder in October 2006 of the Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya.

 

Not to mention his own eventual assasination in the UK.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko

 

This is how they operate. This is what they do -- against their own citizens, not to mention those from other countries.

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, lanista said:

Since when is asking for the facts delusional?

Have you seen RT  TV?.  Do you even know what it is? 

Russian Front.

[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes, and just because Russia and Putin were pretty clearly responsible for the prior assasination of Litvinenko in the UK in similar background circumstances and similar methodology, it's not unreasonable to believe that Russia and Putin were behind this latest episode as well. It's not like they don't have a pretty well established track record in this area.
 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko

Kuwaiti babies thrown from incubators - a lie used to garner support for the first Gulf war

Genocide in former Yugoslavia - a lie used to garner support for Nato intervention in Serbia

Weapons of mass destruction - a lie used to garner support for the second Gulf war

Genocide in Libya - a lie used to garner support for the intervention that has wrecked the country

 

Now I have no idea who was involved in whatever happened in Salisbury, and if verifiable evidence points to Russia, I will accept it, but successive western governments' lies have cost us dearly in the past. As Dubya tried to say, fool me once, etc...

[SheungWan]

39 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Russia Today and Fox news does not belong to same news category as BBC. Don't even try to present them as equal. That's just stupid and misleading.

RT misleading? Yes. Stupid? No. Certainly gives some old Stalinist Fellow-Travelers something to do. Its been a long time.

[Tchooptip]

Who had already seen a mafia boss recognize the murders he had ordered  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Kuwaiti babies thrown from incubators - a lie used to garner support for the first Gulf war

I kind of think Iraq's invasion of Kuwait had more to do with it.

 

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Genocide in former Yugoslavia - a lie used to garner support for Nato intervention in Serbia

The ethnic cleansing campaign that took place throughout areas controlled by the Bosnian Serbs targeted Muslim Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats. The ethnic cleansing campaign included unlawful confinement, murder, rape, sexual assault, torture, beating, robbery, and inhumane treatment of civilians; the targeting of political leaders, intellectuals, and professionals; the unlawful deportation and transfer of civilians; the unlawful shelling of civilians; the unlawful appropriation and plunder of real and personal property; the destruction of homes and businesses; and the destruction of places of worship.^[10]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide

 

This is how you want to make your case?