At least 16 dead as migrant boat sinks off Greek island

[rooster59]

At least 16 dead as migrant boat sinks off Greek island

By Lefteris Papadimas

 

A Hellenic Coast Guard vessel carrying the bodies of migrants that were drowned when the small boat they were travelling on capsized near the island of Agathonisi, is moored the port of Pythagoreio on the island of Samos, Greece, March 17, 2018. SamosTimes.gr via REUTERS

 

ATHENS (Reuters) - Sixteen people, including at least five children, drowned on Saturday when the small boat they on capsized in the Aegean Sea, Greek coast guard officials said.

 

The incident occurred off Greece's Agathonisi island, which is close to the Turkish coast. The nationality of the victims was not immediately known.

 

Saturday's incident was thought to be the highest death toll of migrants trying to reach outlying Greek islands for months.

 

Greek authorities said they believed there were 22 people on the boat. Greek coast guard vessels assisted by helicopters were searching for survivors.

 

"We can't tolerate (losing) children in the Aegean Sea ... the solution is to protect people, to implement safe procedures and safe routes for migrants and refugees, to hit the human trafficking circuits," Greek migration minister Dimitris Vitsas said in a press release.

 

Hundreds of thousands of refugees and migrants arrived in Greece and further west in 2015 from Turkey, making the short but precarious crossing. Hundreds died in the attempt.

 

Following a 2016 agreement between the European Union and Turkey, the numbers have diminished.

 

Under that deal, anyone who arrives on Greek islands must be returned to Turkey unless they qualify for asylum. But procedures can take several months, leading to overcrowded conditions on the islands.

 

Two more migrants were killed and seven more were injured on Saturday, in a separate incident in northern Greece, when their driver lost control of a vehicle during a car chase with the police, a police official told Reuters.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-03-18

[Rimmer]

A troll post in very poor taste has been trashed.

[thaibeachlovers]

We've been hearing very little about migrants in the Med recently. Is that because they have reduced in number, or because it's no longer "newsworthy"?

 

I'm wondering if the measures taken by some countries have worked, to the point that economic migrants have realised that paying smugglers to take them to Europe is no longer a ticket to Germany, or further north, and they'll just end up rotting in Italy or Greece, unable to travel onwards.

[DM07]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

We've been hearing very little about migrants in the Med recently. Is that because they have reduced in number, or because it's no longer "newsworthy"?

 

I'm wondering if the measures taken by some countries have worked, to the point that economic migrants have realised that paying smugglers to take them to Europe is no longer a ticket to Germany, or further north, and they'll just end up rotting in Italy or Greece, unable to travel onwards.

I am quiet sure, there is still a number of refugees, who'd rather "rot" in Italy, then to be bombed or poisoned with mustard- gas, while being in Syria or Yemen.

But, by all means...please continue to imply, everyone dying in the Mediterranean, is "only" an economic migrant...

 

[Credo]

I think this sums it up:

 

[i claudius]

I think this sums it up:
 

We are not doing it, show it to the people in your countrys.they are to blame anyway most are not running from war .but are just economic migrants

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, DM07 said:

I am quiet sure, there is still a number of refugees, who'd rather "rot" in Italy, then to be bombed or poisoned with mustard- gas, while being in Syria or Yemen.

But, by all means...please continue to imply, everyone dying in the Mediterranean, is "only" an economic migrant...

 

By specifying economic migrants I was not implying that all are. I'm sure that genuine refugees would rather stay in Italy than wherever they fled.

 

However, keep distorting what I say and I'll be happy to ignore you in the future.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

I think this sums it up:

 

If he's Syrian, he was bombed by Russia and his own government, not "the world".

If he's from Yemen, it was the Saudis, not "the world".

If he's from Africa, he probably wasn't being bombed at all.

Most of the conflict in the world at present is between people and their own governments, or tribal conflicts, with one significant exception.

 

 

[Credo]

33 minutes ago, i claudius said:

We are not doing it, show it to the people in your countrys.they are to blame anyway most are not running from war .but are just economic migrants

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If he's Syrian, he was bombed by Russia and his own government, not "the world".

If he's from Yemen, it was the Saudis, not "the world".

If he's from Africa, he probably wasn't being bombed at all.

Most of the conflict in the world at present is between people and their own governments, or tribal conflicts, with one significant exception.

 

You might want to cast your net a little wider.   The following countries have been involved in Syria:   UK, France, USA, and weapons supplied from Croatia.   

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Credo said:

 

You might want to cast your net a little wider.   The following countries have been involved in Syria:   UK, France, USA, and weapons supplied from Croatia.   

Yes, but I'd like to believe they haven't been indiscriminately bombing civilians.

[simple1]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, but I'd like to believe they haven't been indiscriminately bombing civilians.

Not likely to be indiscriminate bombing, but massive destruction will have been caused to civilian homes and infrastructure in the fighting e.g. easy to see the level of destruction in Raqqa / Mosul. There are millions who are IDPs as well as millions of refugees in countries such as Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan etc. The numbers in the EU are minor in comparison.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

We've been hearing very little about migrants in the Med recently. Is that because they have reduced in number, or because it's no longer "newsworthy"?

 

I'm wondering if the measures taken by some countries have worked, to the point that economic migrants have realised that paying smugglers to take them to Europe is no longer a ticket to Germany, or further north, and they'll just end up rotting in Italy or Greece, unable to travel onwards.

 

Was winter time in the Mediterranean, expect flow would be up as weather improves. Also, while fighting still goes on in Syria, it is more localized now, so perhaps a contributing factor. And there were reports about EU efforts tackling issues in North Africa, rather than waiting for people arriving on boats.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Credo said:

I think this sums it up:

 

 

I think it's a populist meme designed to raise an emotional response.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

 

You might want to cast your net a little wider.   The following countries have been involved in Syria:   UK, France, USA, and weapons supplied from Croatia.   

 

You might want to more accurately define "involved", or try addressing the lack of migrants/refugees making their way to other countries, even more "involved" in the Syrian Civil War.

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Not likely to be indiscriminate bombing, but massive destruction will have been caused to civilian homes and infrastructure in the fighting e.g. easy to see the level of destruction in Raqqa / Mosul. There are millions who are IDPs as well as millions of refugees in countries such as Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan etc. The numbers in the EU are minor in comparison.

 

I think most of the destruction caused by Western attacks (in the context of the Syrian Civil War and/or operations against ISIS) was meted after civilians were already in the process of fleeing. The masses of refugees from these areas are more to do with ISIS and others taking over and/or Syrian/Iraqi/Russian/Shia militias hitting back.

[simple1]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

I think most of the destruction caused by Western attacks (in the context of the Syrian Civil War and/or operations against ISIS) was meted after civilians were already in the process of fleeing. The masses of refugees from these areas are more to do with ISIS and others taking over and/or Syrian/Iraqi/Russian/Shia militias hitting back.

Maybe. If you recall, whilst attempts were made to reduce damage, the destruction in places such as Mosul from airstrikes by the coalition, called in by Iraqi forces was enormous. You may recall airstrikes in Mosul were wound back for a while due to concerns about the number of civilian deaths. Not being a relative expert on combat as you, I would assume similar scenarios occurred across all areas of fighting against Islamist forces.

[tifino]

 

at least the OP Title correctly used the 'migrant' word, not the 'refugee' one...

 

The blame all lies at the feet of the 'importers'

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Maybe. If you recall, whilst attempts were made to reduce damage, the destruction in places such as Mosul from airstrikes by the coalition, called in by Iraqi forces was enormous. You may recall airstrikes in Mosul were wound back for a while due to concerns about the number of civilian deaths. Not being a relative expert on combat as you, I would assume similar scenarios occurred across all areas of fighting against Islamist forces.

 

I'm not denying there were civilian casualties in such airstrikes. Even many of them. I'm just not convinced that the suggested narrative making them a major factor with regard to the refugee crisis is correct. People were fleeing much earlier than that, and them large refugee camps in neighboring countries were set up and (over) populated by then.

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I'm not denying there were civilian casualties in such airstrikes. Even many of them. I'm just not convinced that the suggested narrative making them a major factor with regard to the refugee crisis is correct. People were fleeing much earlier than that, and them large refugee camps in neighboring countries were set up and (over) populated by then.

Totally agree with your last sentences. As I've mentioned before in this forum red flags were in place before the flood into the EU in 2015 and effectively ignored.

[DM07]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

By specifying economic migrants I was not implying that all are. I'm sure that genuine refugees would rather stay in Italy than wherever they fled.

 

However, keep distorting what I say and I'll be happy to ignore you in the future.

Oh...then I must have missed the mentioning of war- refugees.

I was of the opinion, you exclusively mentioned economic migrants in your post!

 

Oh...wait...that is exactly, what you did!  

[DM07]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

I think it's a populist meme designed to raise an emotional response.

Yeah...and who wants emotions or empathy getting in the way, when it comes to "them"...not us!

[Morch]

1 minute ago, DM07 said:

Yeah...and who wants emotions or empathy getting in the way, when it comes to "them"...not us!

 

Yeah....why bother with facts, context, nuance and all them other things that stand in the way of a perfectly good meme. Or faux moralizing.

 

[DM07]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Yeah....why bother with facts, context, nuance and all them other things that stand in the way of a perfectly good meme. Or faux moralizing.

 

Here are some facts for you: Syrian cities are reduced to rubble in many places, Yemen is facing starvation!

But sure: some people mooching of some welfare and that is way more important then "faux moralizing"!

[Morch]

1 hour ago, DM07 said:

Here are some facts for you: Syrian cities are reduced to rubble in many places, Yemen is facing starvation!

But sure: some people mooching of some welfare and that is way more important then "faux moralizing"!

 

Save the moralizing and drama. Try reading my posts again. In context. Most of  the damage inflicted on Syria was not meted by Western countries. Yemen's war is with Saudi Arabia. While I understand that some feel that "the West" should be held accountable for pretty much anything and everything, it does not necessarily amount to a convincing argument. The faux moralizing doesn't help much either.

[DM07]

29 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Save the moralizing and drama. Try reading my posts again. In context. Most of  the damage inflicted on Syria was not meted by Western countries. Yemen's war is with Saudi Arabia. While I understand that some feel that "the West" should be held accountable for pretty much anything and everything, it does not necessarily amount to a convincing argument. The faux moralizing doesn't help much either.

...ahm...so..."the West" was not involved in these conflicts (little question: who's weapons are the Saudis using and who made a truck- load of money with selling them to the Saudis?) and that means, these are -to quote Douglas Adams- "other peoples problems"?

Got it!

Does the words "proxy war" mean anything to you?

Facts!

Make you feel so much better about yourself!

Edited March 21, 2018 by DM07

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, DM07 said:

...ahm...so..."the West" was not involved in these conflicts (little question: who's weapons are the Saudis using and who made a truck- load of money with selling them to the Saudis?) and that means, these are -to quote Douglas Adams- "other peoples problems"?

Got it!

Does the words "proxy war" mean anything to you?

Facts!

Make you feel so much better about yourself!

 

Stop trolling. I never said that the West was "not involved". There are different levels and modes of involvement. There are different levels of responsibility. Lumping it all together, ignoring the major role played by other parties, and pasting it all on child's photo is about as serious as the "argument" gets.

 

Similarly, there wasn't anything said about weapons not being sold to Saudi Arabia. Quite the opposite, on a parallel topic. As far as I'm aware, though, there is no real influx of Yemenite refugees to Europe. Kindly consult the OP for reference on context, as this isn't a general bash-all-you-can topic (I hope).

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[simple1]

13 hours ago, Morch said:

 

As far as I'm aware, though, there is no real influx of Yemenite refugees to Europe. 

There are some thousands, but nowhere near some other nationalities. The main reason being access, as they are obliged to cross over to Africa. We all know the terrible treatment many are subjected to in Africa, especially when they reach Libya. As has been stated numerous times the UNHCR is overwhelmed by the millions of asylum seekers / refugees. Majority of those under the UNHCR umbrella have to wait years, if not decades, for resettlement, no wonder many try their luck with people traffickers and end up in terrible circumstances.