Dealing with Kidney Stones

[Grumpy Duck]

Anyone that has suffered from Kidney Stones may be interested in the following.

I had problems with small stones in the US before retirement as I was frequently dehydrated with a bad diet.

I have been in Thailand a lil longer than 3 years the second year I was here I had an extremely painful bout with them.

I just had another bout and did some research on them here is what I discovered;

• Calcium stones are the most common type of kidney stones. They are usually made of calcium and oxalate (a natural chemical found in most foods), but are sometimes made of calcium and phosphate.
• Uric acid stones form when your urine is often too acidic. Uric acid can form stones by itself or with calcium.
• Struvite stones can happen when you have certain types of urinary tract infections in which bacteria make ammonia that builds up in your urine. Struvite stones are made of magnesium, ammonium and phosphate.
• Cystine stones are made of a chemical that your body makes naturally, called cystine. Cystine stones are very rare, and happen in people who have a genetic disorder that causes cystine to leak from the kidneys into the urine.

I was told to watch my diet, no calcium, meaning no dairy, watch hydration, should drink 3 liters water per day. This time I had a large stone, and they suggested I googled what I can & cannot eat here are the results from https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000135.htm;

Diet and Calcium Stones

Follow these guidelines if you have calcium kidney stones:

• Drink plenty of fluids, particularly water.
• Eat less salt. Chinese and Mexican food, tomato juice, regular canned foods, and processed foods are often high in salt. Look for low-salt or unsalted products.
• Have only 2 or 3 servings a day of foods with a lot of calcium, such as milk, cheese, yogurt, oysters, and tofu.
• Eat lemons or oranges, or drink fresh lemonade. Citrate in these foods prevents stones from forming.
• Limit how much protein you eat. Choose lean meats.
• Eat a low-fat diet.

DO NOT take extra calcium or vitamin D, unless the provider who is treating your kidney stones recommends it.

• Watch out for antacids that contain extra calcium. Ask your provider which antacids are safe for you to take.
• Your body still needs the normal amount of calcium you get from your daily diet. Limiting calcium may actually increase the chance that stones will form.

Ask your provider before taking vitamin C or fish oil. They may be harmful to you.

If your provider says you have calcium oxalate stones, you may also need to limit foods that are high in oxalate. These foods include:

• Fruits: rhubarb, currants, canned fruit salad, strawberries, and Concord grapes
• Vegetables: beets, leeks, summer squash, sweet potatoes, spinach, and tomato soup
• Drinks: tea and instant coffee
• Other foods: grits, tofu, nuts, and chocolate

Diet and Uric Acid Stones

Avoid these foods if you have uric acid stones:

• Alcohol
• Anchovies
• Asparagus
• Baking or brewer's yeast
• Cauliflower
• Consommé
• Gravy
• Herring
• Legumes (dried beans and peas)
• Mushrooms
• Oils
• Organ meats (liver, kidney, and sweetbreads)
• Sardines
• Spinach

Other suggestions for your diet include:

• DO NOT eat more than 3 ounces (85 grams) of meat at each meal.
• Avoid fatty foods such as salad dressings, ice cream, and fried foods.
• Eat enough carbohydrates.
• Eat more lemons and oranges, and drink lemonade because the citrate in these foods stops stones from forming.
• Drink plenty of fluids, particularly water.

If you are losing weight, lose it slowly. Quick weight loss may cause uric acid stones to form.

 

In my latest case the Dr suggested extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy(ESWL) ureteroscopy. Where they place you on a fluid filled mattress locate the stone with x-rays & ultrasound, then break the stone into smaller pieces easier to pass. This sounded great, but the 3 days hospital stay and 100,000 baht pricetag discouraged me. 

I read the following at https://www.healthline.com/health/kidney-health/home-remedies-for-kidney-stones 

 

Home Remedies for Kidney Stones: What Works?

Staying hydrated is key

Drinking plenty of fluids is a vital part of passing kidney stones and preventing new stones from forming. Not only does the liquid flush out toxins, it helps move stones and grit through your urinary tract.

Although water alone may be enough to do the trick, adding certain ingredients can be beneficial. Be sure to drink one 8-ounce glass of water immediately after drinking any flavored remedy. This can help move the ingredients through your system.

Talk to your doctor before getting started with any of the home remedies listed below. They can assess whether home treatment is right for you or if it could lead to additional complications.

If you’re pregnant or breastfeeding, use these home remedies with caution. Your doctor can determine whether a juice may cause side effects for you or your baby.

 

WATER

1. Water

When passing a stone, upping your water intake can help speed up the process. Strive for 12 glasses of water per day instead of the usual eight.

Once the stone passes, you should continue to drink eight to 12 glasses of water each day. Dehydration is one of the main risk factors for kidney stones, and the last thing you want is for more to form.

Pay attention to the color of your urine. It should be a very light, pale yellow. Dark yellow urine is a sign of dehydration.

 

LEMON JUICE

2. Lemon juice

You can add freshly squeezed lemons to your water as often as you like. Lemons contain citrate, which is a chemical that prevents calcium stones from forming. Citrate can also break up small stones, allowing them to pass more easily.

Lemon juice has numerous other health benefits. For example, it helps inhibit bacteria growth.

 

BASIL JUICE

3. Basil juice

Basil contains acetic acid, which helps to break down the kidney stones and helps to reduce pain. It also lowers uric acid levels, which reduces your risk for future stones.

Use fresh or dried basil leaves to make a tea and drink several cups per day. You may also juice fresh basil or add it to a smoothie.

You shouldn’t use medicinal basil juice for more than six weeks at a time. Extended use may lead to:

• low blood sugar
• low blood pressure
• increased bleeding

 

APPLE CIDER VINEGAR

4. Apple cider vinegar

Apple cider vinegar contains citric acid. Citric acid helps to dissolve kidney stones. Apple cider vinegar can help alkalize blood and urine and increase stomach acids to prevent the formation of new stones. In addition to flushing out the kidneys, apple cider vinegar can help ease pain caused by the stones.

To reap these benefits, add 2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar to 6­­–8 ounces of purified water. Drink this mixture throughout the day.

You shouldn’t consume more than one 8-ounce glass of this mixture per day. If ingested in larger amounts, apple cider vinegar can lead to low levels of potassium and osteoporosis.

People with diabetes should exercise caution when drinking this mixture. Monitor your blood sugar levels carefully throughout the day.

You shouldn’t drink this mixture if you’re taking:

• insulin
• digoxin (Digox)
• diuretics, such as spironolactone (Aldactone)

 

CELERY JUICE

5. Celery juice

Celery juice clears away toxins that contribute to kidney stone formation. It also helps flush out the body so you can pass the stone.

Blend one or more celery stalks with water, and drink the juice throughout the day.

You shouldn’t drink this mixture if you have:

• any bleeding disorder
• low blood pressure
• a scheduled surgery

You also shouldn’t drink this mixture if you’re taking:

• levothyroxine (Synthroid)
• lithium (Lithane)
• medications that increase sun sensitivity, such as isotretinoin (Sotret)
• sedative medications, such as alprazolam (Xanax)

 

POMEGRANATE JUICE

6. Pomegranate juice

Pomegranate juice can help improve overall kidney function, as well as flush stones and other toxins from your system.

It also lowers your urine’s acidity level. Lower acidity levels reduce your risk for future kidney stones.

There’s no limit to how much pomegranate juice you can drink throughout the day.

You shouldn’t drink pomegranate juice if you’re taking:

• medications changed by the liver
• blood pressure medications, such as chlorothiazide (Diuril)
• rosuvastatin (Crestor)

 

KIDNEY BEAN BROTH

7. Kidney bean broth

The broth from cooked kidney beans helps improve overall urinary and kidney health. It also helps dissolve and flush out the stones. Simply strain the liquid from cooked beans and drink a few glasses throughout the day.

 

OTHER NATURAL REMEDIES

Other natural remedies

The following home remedies may contain ingredients that aren’t already in your kitchen. You should be able to buy them from your local health food store or online.

 

DANDELION ROOT JUICE

8. Dandelion root juice

Dandelion root is a kidney tonic that stimulates the production of bile. This helps to eliminate waste, increase urine output, and improve digestion. Dandelions have vitamins (A, B, C, D) and minerals such as potassium, iron, and zinc.

You can make fresh dandelion juice or buy it as a tea. If you make it fresh, you may also add orange peel, ginger, and apple to taste. Drink 3­–4 cups throughout the day.

Some people experience heartburn when they eat dandelion or its parts.

You shouldn’t drink this mixture if you’re taking:

• blood thinners
• antacids
• antibiotics
• lithium (Lithane)
• diuretics, such as spironolactone (Aldactone)

If you are taking medications, talk to your doctor before taking dandelion root extract as it can interact with many medications.

 

WHEATGRASS JUICE

9. Wheatgrass juice

Wheatgrass is packed with many nutrients and has long been used to enhance health. Wheatgrass increases urine flow to help pass the stones. It also contains vital nutrients that help cleanse the kidneys.

You can drink 2–8 ounces per day. To prevent side effects, start with the smallest amount possible and gradually work your way up to 8 ounces.

If fresh wheatgrass juice isn’t available, you can take powdered wheatgrass supplements as directed.

Taking wheatgrass on an empty stomach can reduce your risk for nausea. In some cases, it may cause appetite loss and constipation.

 

HORSETAIL JUICE

10. Horsetail juice

Horsetail increases urine flow to help to flush out kidney stones and can soothe swelling and inflammation. It also has antibacterial and antioxidant properties that aid in overall urinary health.

However, the Cleveland Clinic warns against its use. You shouldn’t use horsetail for more than six weeks at a time. There are dangers of seizures, low B vitamins, and loss of potassium.

You shouldn’t use horsetail if you take lithium (Lithane), diuretics, or heart medications such as digoxin. Horsetail is not recommended for children and pregnant or breastfeeding women. Horsetail contains nicotine and should not be taken if you are using a nicotine patch or trying to quit smoking.

You also shouldn’t drink this mixture if you have:

• alcoholism
• diabetes
• low potassium levels
• low thiamine levels

 

SEE YOUR DOCTOR

See your doctor

See your doctor if you’re unable to pass your stone within six weeks, or if you begin experiencing severe symptoms that include:

• severe pain
• blood in your urine
• fever
• chills
• nausea
• vomiting

Your doctor will determine whether you need medication or any other therapy to help you pass the stone.

 

TAKEAWAY

The bottom line

Although it may be uncomfortable, it’s possible to pass a kidney stone on your own.

You can take over-the-counter pain relievers to lessen any pain you may be experiencing. These includes acetaminophen (Tylenol), ibuprofen (Advil), or naproxen (Aleve).

Be sure to continue treatment until the stone passes. Do not drink alcohol. Once you pass a kidney stone, you may save it to take to your doctor for testing. To save the stone you will need to strain your urine. They can determine what kind of stone it is and help develop a targeted prevention plan.

You might add these remedies to your usual regimen and continue use after the stone passes. This may help prevent more stones from forming, but always talk to your doctor before taking medications or herbs.

 

I had been taking Tramadol & Drotavertine for the pain had to go to the hospital 3 more times for injections for the pain. I started to drink a glass or 2 of lemonade per day and eat navel oranges with a diet of chicken Jok. I lost about 7 kg/15 lbs The pain was gone that day. and has not returned in a week. I am so glad I didn't spend the money on the ESWL. I have since returned to a regular diet of mostly lean meats an orange and 1 or 2 glasses of lemonade, grapefruit juice or pomegranate juice per day. 

[jerry921]

I've had a number of kidney stones. The first one required an operation. By the time of my second stone I'd moved and so it was all different medical care. I went to the emergency room for that one, and the doctor doped me up and the stone passed in about half an hour. But he was rather annoyed with me when he found out I hadn't taken anything prior to coming to the hospital (I'd had the idea that they would give me medication and I didn't want to restrict their choices by already having taken something).

 

Anyway, that doctor told me something the first set of doctors (including the one that performed the operation) never did.

 

He said Ibuprophen, unlike acetaminophrn or the other pain relievers, in addition to pain control actually helps the stone to pass, because it causes slight dialation of the tube the stone is trying to make its way through.

 

When I learned that I was so put out with the first set of doctors. They made me suffer for two weeks trying to pass that stone and prescribed tylenol-codiene that made me completely loopy but still didn't cut the pain. Then the operation, then a couple weeks of putting up with the stent. And if I'd just taken ibuprophen instead of codiene I might have had a chance to pass the stone (since it wasn't so large that an operation was definitely required).

 

Since then whenever I get a stone (and I've had at least a dozen "tinges" that felt like the onset of a stone, and a couple that got painful enough that they were definitely stones, I take ibuprophen right away. Plus of course plenty of water to push it through.

 

You can consult with your doctor as to how much ibuprophen you can take in how short an amount of time, there are issues you can get into if you take too much, but you should talk to a doctor because the amount you can take for short duration under a doctor's care is greater than what it says on the bottle, which is a safe level for general use, and more definitely helps.

 

 

 

 

[wgdanson]

17 minutes ago, jerry921 said:

You can consult with your doctor as to how much ibuprophen you can take in how short an amount of time, there are issues you can get into if you take too much, but you should talk to a doctor because the amount you can take for short duration under a doctor's care is greater than what it says on the bottle, which is a safe level for general use, and more definitely helps.

 

Why ask a doctor when you have Google.

 

The maximum daily dose of ibuprofen is 1,200 mg, which equates to about six regular-strength pills. Also, for chronic pain, you shouldn’t take it for more than 10 days. In fact, try not to take it more than three days a week. While taking ibuprofen, make sure to monitor your blood pressure, especially if it tends to run too high.

[jerry921]

6 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Why ask a doctor when you have Google.

Because your doctor knows more about your health situation than Google. At least so far. Though admittedly maybe not Thai doctors.

 

And a doctor may prescribe more than the amounts you quote. One did for me. He gave me a prescription which I filled at a US pharmacy that had the personalized directions printed on the bottle. The pills were 800 mg each, not the OTC 200 mg pills. 3x/day for a week. That's 2400 mg/day, double what google says.

 

He was able to take into account that I drink no alcohol, had no reduced liver function, etc, wasn't on other meds that would be a problem, and made the decision that the risk from that high dose was warranted for my case for a very short time.

 

But I was really hesitant to give the details of my example because somebody might go off and think they could take what I took without seeing a doctor.

[Grumpy Duck]

19 hours ago, jerry921 said:

I've had a number of kidney stones. The first one required an operation. By the time of my second stone I'd moved and so it was all different medical care. I went to the emergency room for that one, and the doctor doped me up and the stone passed in about half an hour. But he was rather annoyed with me when he found out I hadn't taken anything prior to coming to the hospital (I'd had the idea that they would give me medication and I didn't want to restrict their choices by already having taken something).

 

Anyway, that doctor told me something the first set of doctors (including the one that performed the operation) never did.

 

He said Ibuprophen, unlike acetaminophrn or the other pain relievers, in addition to pain control actually helps the stone to pass, because it causes slight dialation of the tube the stone is trying to make its way through.

 

When I learned that I was so put out with the first set of doctors. They made me suffer for two weeks trying to pass that stone and prescribed tylenol-codiene that made me completely loopy but still didn't cut the pain. Then the operation, then a couple weeks of putting up with the stent. And if I'd just taken ibuprophen instead of codiene I might have had a chance to pass the stone (since it wasn't so large that an operation was definitely required).

 

Since then whenever I get a stone (and I've had at least a dozen "tinges" that felt like the onset of a stone, and a couple that got painful enough that they were definitely stones, I take ibuprophen right away. Plus of course plenty of water to push it through.

 

You can consult with your doctor as to how much ibuprophen you can take in how short an amount of time, there are issues you can get into if you take too much, but you should talk to a doctor because the amount you can take for short duration under a doctor's care is greater than what it says on the bottle, which is a safe level for general use, and more definitely helps.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info. None of the info I read talked about ibuprofen. The problem for me is I am alergic to it. But perhaps it will help others. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Wish I had found this thread earlier as I am now in hospital awaiting an ultrasound !

Yesterday I had lower stomach pain which came and went most of the day.

Around 6 pm I started to notice the pain was also in my back, at this point i also saw traces of blood in my urine, headed to the hospital.

Gave a blood test, urine test and X-ray.

While waiting for results the pain in my back became stronger and until unbearable, at this point I was admitted.

9.00 am now and waiting for ultrasound to become available.

 

Around 10 years ago I had a gall bladder stone and remember ( now) that the X-ray didn’t pick it up and ultrasound spotted it straight away.

 

Anyhoo, thanks very much OP for all the info and I will certainly look at altering my diet AND drinking more water.

 

My bother died from complications arising after a kidney transplant 37 years ago and I don’t mind telling you when I realised the pain was more in my back and saw the blood in my urine it brought back some terrible memories.

 

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

 

The kids have been found in the cave, England beat Colombia so I have every faith that this is “ good luck week “ ?

[faraday]

Sorry to hear all that Andrew, but as we say in blighty:

 

"Things happen in threes"

 

So hopefully good luck, or good medicine will come through, & you'll be ok soon, without an operation.

 

What symptoms did you have with your Gall Bladder stones?

 

I had very bad food poisoning 10 days ago, loads of bile came out both ends. Haven't been able to eat much, & when I do I pass more bile.

 

Yuk!

 

And I'm so blooming hungry!

[Andrew Dwyer]

Sorry to hear all that Andrew, but as we say in blighty:
 
"Things happen in threes"
 
So hopefully good luck, or good medicine will come through, & you'll be ok soon, without an operation.
 
What symptoms did you have with your Gall Bladder stones?
 
I had very bad food poisoning 10 days ago, loads of bile came out both ends. Haven't been able to eat much, & when I do I pass more bile.
 
Yuk!
 
And I'm so blooming hungry!

Gall bladder was similar to kidney stones, abdomen pain together with back pain only higher than kidney pains , coming and going.
Nauseous and vomiting also.

Very easy to get side tracked with these symptoms, I had just traveled to the North of Brazil ( Aracaju ) for work and put it down to very hot and humid together with something dodgy I had eaten.

Had the op to remove stone and bladder , relatively painless, only problem was on a stool sample found traces of blood so had to have a colonoscopy!!, that was worse than the op !!

Won’t go into detail, you might be eating !! [emoji51]

[Andrew Dwyer]

Okay, so it seems I have a 6.8mm Kidney stone !
Being sent home from the hospital with some medication ( not sure if to assist passing stone or pain control ) with a plan to pass it through urine at home.
Failing that a return visit in 2 weeks with another ultrasound and laser to break up stone.

Anyone have experience of passing this size stone naturally ( a quick self inspection seems unlikely [emoji51])

[jerry921]

Ouch, you have my deepest condolences and empathy. What medication did they give you?
 

When they sent me home to pass a large-but-theoretically-passable stone I spent two weeks in varying amounts of pain without making any progress. I don't think my stone moved at all. If you're making progress, the location of the pain will move around toward your front.

 

I had pain attacks which were excruciating, about twelve on a scale of one to ten. The codeine they gave me seemed to make me dopey but have no effect on the pain. One thing that helped was to roll around on the floor with my feet in the air. Perhaps that put pressure on things from different angles or something. Sheryl can explain the facts, my non-medical perception was that pressure would build up due to urine behind the stone and that was what was causing the attacks. When the urine could work past the stone the attack would fade, about 30 minutes each time, a few a day. Sometimes walking helps. Motion in general seems to help.

 

The whole thing was very stressful for my poor dog who could tell I was in pain but couldn't help.

 

If your pain levels aren't that high, then you're fortunate, so far. I certainly would not put up with that kind of two week pain sentence again.

 

I refer you to my advice above about ibuprophen, you need to find out what medication they've given you, and whether you can take ibuprophen also, and how much.

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Ouch, you have my deepest condolences and empathy. What medication did they give you?
 
When they sent me home to pass a large-but-theoretically-passable stone I spent two weeks in varying amounts of pain without making any progress. I don't think my stone moved at all. If you're making progress, the location of the pain will move around toward your front.
 
I had pain attacks which were excruciating, about twelve on a scale of one to ten. The codeine they gave me seemed to make me dopey but have no effect on the pain. One thing that helped was to roll around on the floor with my feet in the air. Perhaps that put pressure on things from different angles or something. Sheryl can explain the facts, my non-medical perception was that pressure would build up due to urine behind the stone and that was what was causing the attacks. When the urine could work past the stone the attack would fade, about 30 minutes each time, a few a day. Sometimes walking helps. Motion in general seems to help.
 
The whole thing was very stressful for my poor dog who could tell I was in pain but couldn't help.
 
If your pain levels aren't that high, then you're fortunate, so far. I certainly would not put up with that kind of two week pain sentence again.
 
I refer you to my advice above about ibuprophen, you need to find out what medication they've given you, and whether you can take ibuprophen also, and how much.
 
 

Okay, thanks for your reply.
Can’t say I’m looking forward to the next 2 weeks !!

Your “ non medical perception “ seems very logical to me ! Unfortunately I have been told by the doctor to drink a lot of water, I hope that doesn’t create the problem you describe.

With my gall bladder stone it was explained to me that as the gallbladder is a valve it sucks on the stone and causes the pain, I assumed it was similar on this occasion but you may well be right.

Have just returned home now from the hospital which is 5 mins away ( Ayutthaya ), with a return date of 16th July for ultrasound and laser if necessary.

The medication they have given me is:
Sodamint ( sodium bicarbonate) 8 days
Voltarem-L ( for pain and inflammatory) 6 days
Diuretics ( Antihypertensives ) 5 days

The pain I endured on Tuesday evening was pretty unbearable but luckily it only started in earnest while I was already at the hospital after having seen blood in my urine and feeling the pain more in my back ( previous to this was an annoying stomach ache ).

The urine test I gave on entering the hospital was a very strong blood colour but since then has returned back to a normal colour ( very light yellow ) but this could also be due to the drip I was on I guess ??

The hospital was very good at reacting quickly to my needs, via the nurses, but I think I saw about 4 different doctors and got little information from them.

I regret not remembering my gallbladder experience and requesting an ultrasound when the first doctor mentioned kidney stone as the x-ray ( plus delay for results and waiting for new doctor to come on shift, 8 pm ) just delayed the obvious and I finally got an ultrasound at 1 pm the next day ( yesterday ).

Anyway, keep your fingers crossed and say a little prayer for me, no doubt I will be posting again on this thread [emoji51]

[vogie]

I was rushed into hospital a few months ago with a high fever, they did every test available and found I had a kidney stones/stone, when I was released from hospital I was told to return and an operation would cost 40,000 baht, I didn't return. The stone/stones are not causing me any pain or discomfort, will they later in life?

[Andrew Dwyer]

I was rushed into hospital a few months ago with a high fever, they did every test available and found I had a kidney stones/stone, when I was released from hospital I was told to return and an operation would cost 40,000 baht, I didn't return. The stone/stones are not causing me any pain or discomfort, will they later in life?

I wonder if these stones are formed over a long period of time and occasionally relocate to a place that causes pain, if they stay put you would probably never know you have them ??

On Monday it was an overcast day and I chose to “ attack “ the garden and did some serious digging on a little project I’m working on which involved throwing spades full of earth over a 2 m wall.
I kinda overdid it and was shattered !!
Next morning my problems started.

Coincidence ?

[jerry921]

1 minute ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I wonder if these stones are formed over a long period of time and occasionally relocate to a place that causes pain, if they stay put you would probably never know you have them ??

On Monday it was an overcast day and I chose to “ attack “ the garden and did some serious digging on a little project I’m working on which involved throwing spades full of earth over a 2 m wall.
I kinda overdid it and was shattered !!
Next morning my problems started.

Coincidence ?

That is my understanding, they form in your kidneys over time, and can hang out there for quite a while without detaching. When they detach, they have to pass through the urinary tract to the bladder. If they are small enough, that will happen with no symptoms and you'll never know you had them. If they are big enough to get hung up in the pipe somewhere along the way, you'll feel something.

 

Perhaps the unaccustomed muscle work and motion knocked one loose that you had been growing for a long time. If you can pass it without needing an operation to clear it, then in a way you're fortunate it didn't get bigger before it tried to come out.

 

An xray can find out how many you have and how big they are, but won't tell you when they're going to "drop".

 

You can also, perhaps, help to dissolve them in your kidneys by upping your water throughput. Once you've had one that hurts, you'll naturally become a bit mental about drinking enough water and making sure you don't get dehydrated.

 

Please allow me to repeat as a disclaimer that I have no medical training whatsoever.

[tracker]

Luk-tai-bai tea, also known as the "stone-crusher herb", works well. Fairly easyto buy or even to make yourself as it grows as a weed in the rainy season. Two cups daily, enhance with honey if it is toobitter for you.

[watcharacters]

On 4/4/2018 at 1:03 PM, wgdanson said:

Why ask a doctor when you have Google.

 

The maximum daily dose of ibuprofen is 1,200 mg, which equates to about six regular-strength pills. Also, for chronic pain, you shouldn’t take it for more than 10 days. In fact, try not to take it more than three days a week. While taking ibuprofen, make sure to monitor your blood pressure, especially if it tends to run too high.

 

 

Good reply "Keith".

[vogie]

My appologies, mine are gallstones not kidneystones, does that make a difference?

[jerry921]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

My appologies, mine are gallstones not kidneystones, does that make a difference?

None of my ill-informed in-expert non-medical advice on kidney stones is as far as i know the slightest bit applicable to gall stones. So, yeah, I'd day it's different.

[Andrew Dwyer]

My appologies, mine are gallstones not kidneystones, does that make a difference?

Yes it damn well does !! [emoji51]

Been down the gallbladder route and I think the pain wasn’t as intense but still very nagging and difficult to pinpoint.

Had my gallbladder removed and have the stone somewhere, 20mm and looks like a boiled sweet/hard candy.
After having the gallbladder removed people suffer different side effects, mainly diarrhoea after too much fatty or sweet foods. I was lucky in that I suffered no side effects.

[Sheryl]

Staying well hydrated is by far the best preventive.

 

It is easy to dehydrate here especially if doing hard physical work or exercise.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Staying well hydrated is by far the best preventive.
 
It is easy to dehydrate here especially if doing hard physical work or exercise.

Thanks Sheryl, what are your thoughts on the Luk-Tai-Bai tea quoted above ?
My gf’s mother drinks it as she had a kidney stone before so had it recommended by someone.

I do drink tea regularly, breakfast tea in the morning and jasmine tea in the evening so if I could replace those with Luk-Tai-Bai then it would be perfect.

[Sheryl]

I have no idea, don't know a thing about it or its supposed mode of action.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Andrew Dwyer]

I have no idea, don't know a thing about it or its supposed mode of action.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Okay thanks.

Googled it and found it to be a herb ( Phyllantus Amarus ) which is reported to be beneficial for liver and kidneys when taken in capsule form or a tea made from its leaves.
I.e. a herbal remedy.

Note: there is no scientific proof of its benefits only:

“ Preliminary studies suggest that plants of the Phyllanthus genus may contain many compounds with health-enhancing properties, including antioxidants, lignans (a type of phytoestrogen), and tannins (a class of substances found to reduce inflammation). “

[Kieran00001]

On 4/4/2018 at 12:45 PM, jerry921 said:

I've had a number of kidney stones. The first one required an operation. By the time of my second stone I'd moved and so it was all different medical care. I went to the emergency room for that one, and the doctor doped me up and the stone passed in about half an hour. But he was rather annoyed with me when he found out I hadn't taken anything prior to coming to the hospital (I'd had the idea that they would give me medication and I didn't want to restrict their choices by already having taken something).

 

Anyway, that doctor told me something the first set of doctors (including the one that performed the operation) never did.

 

He said Ibuprophen, unlike acetaminophrn or the other pain relievers, in addition to pain control actually helps the stone to pass, because it causes slight dialation of the tube the stone is trying to make its way through.

 

When I learned that I was so put out with the first set of doctors. They made me suffer for two weeks trying to pass that stone and prescribed tylenol-codiene that made me completely loopy but still didn't cut the pain. Then the operation, then a couple weeks of putting up with the stent. And if I'd just taken ibuprophen instead of codiene I might have had a chance to pass the stone (since it wasn't so large that an operation was definitely required).

 

Since then whenever I get a stone (and I've had at least a dozen "tinges" that felt like the onset of a stone, and a couple that got painful enough that they were definitely stones, I take ibuprophen right away. Plus of course plenty of water to push it through.

 

You can consult with your doctor as to how much ibuprophen you can take in how short an amount of time, there are issues you can get into if you take too much, but you should talk to a doctor because the amount you can take for short duration under a doctor's care is greater than what it says on the bottle, which is a safe level for general use, and more definitely helps.

 

 

 

 

 

You should also consult a doctor to make sure it is a kidney stone causing the pain for if it is an ulcer taking ibruprofen could kill you.

[Kieran00001]

24 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Okay thanks.

Googled it and found it to be a herb ( Phyllantus Amarus ) which is reported to be beneficial for liver and kidneys when taken in capsule form or a tea made from its leaves.
I.e. a herbal remedy.

Note: there is no scientific proof of its benefits only:

“ Preliminary studies suggest that plants of the Phyllanthus genus may contain many compounds with health-enhancing properties, including antioxidants, lignans (a type of phytoestrogen), and tannins (a class of substances found to reduce inflammation). “

 

A quick search reveals several scientific studies, all of them phase II and successful and with recommendation for phase III, but I can't find any phase III trials, they may well be currently underway, phase III can take years.

http://eol.org/pages/1152757/overview#Clinical_study

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29617079

[Andrew Dwyer]

 
A quick search reveals several scientific studies, all of them phase II and successful and with recommendation for phase III, but I can't find any phase III trials, they may well be currently underway, phase III can take years.
http://eol.org/pages/1152757/overview#Clinical_study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29617079

Okay, thanks for that.

I didn’t research it too much and didn’t want to recommend something I know little about.

On the other hand, my gf’s mother makes the tea from the plant growing in her garden and I have already asked her to prepare some for my next visit.

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Okay, thanks for that.

I didn’t research it too much and didn’t want to recommend something I know little about.

On the other hand, my gf’s mother makes the tea from the plant growing in her garden and I have already asked her to prepare some for my next visit.

 

Well, it hasn't been approved, but it certainly shows great promise, and I doubt it earned its nickname, 'The stone breaker' for nothing. 

 

Anyway, thanks, I suffer from stones at times, I will give it a try next time.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Okay thanks.

Googled it and found it to be a herb ( Phyllantus Amarus ) which is reported to be beneficial for liver and kidneys when taken in capsule form or a tea made from its leaves.
I.e. a herbal remedy.

Note: there is no scientific proof of its benefits only:

“ Preliminary studies suggest that plants of the Phyllanthus genus may contain many compounds with health-enhancing properties, including antioxidants, lignans (a type of phytoestrogen), and tannins (a class of substances found to reduce inflammation). “

Neither antioxidants, lignans nor tannins will prevent kidney stones.

 

"beneficial for liver and kidneys" (if in fact this herb is) does not mean it will help with stones. Stone formation is not related to kidney health per se.

 

depending on what type of stone you had (what it was made of), there may be dietary modifications that will help.See https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/diet

 

But for all types of stones, staying well hydrated is the number one thing

[Kieran00001]

20 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Neither antioxidants, lignans nor tannins will prevent kidney stones.

 

"beneficial for liver and kidneys" (if in fact this herb is) does not mean it will help with stones. Stone formation is not related to kidney health per se.

 

depending on what type of stone you had (what it was made of), there may be dietary modifications that will help.See https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/diet

 

But for all types of stones, staying well hydrated is the number one thing

 

From the way you wrote that, as if you were stating facts, some readers could be mislead into thinking you had the first idea of what you were talking about!  Please refrain from posting misinformation in reply to medical queries.

 

Lignans and flavonoid anti-oxidants support the bladder and kidney cell walls.  These nutrients reduce inflammatory prostaglandins and increase urinary volume to wash out bacteria and toxins from the urinary tract helping to prevent and treat kidney stones.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11025144

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Kieran00001

[Sheryl]

23 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

From the way you wrote that, as if you were stating facts, some readers could be mislead into thinking you had the first idea of what you were talking about!  Please refrain from posting misinformation in reply to medical queries.

 

Lignans and flavonoid anti-oxidants support the bladder and kidney cell walls.  These nutrients reduce inflammatory prostaglandins and increase urinary volume to wash out bacteria and toxins from the urinary tract helping to prevent and treat kidney stones.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11025144

 

The article you quote pertains to an entirely different substance (derived from Stinging Nettle) administered intravenously to a rat. Nothing at all to do with lignans, flavonoids nor prostaglandins nor the herb under discussion.