Flights At Suvarnabhumi Airport Delayed As Repairs Of Cracks Continue

[xbusman]

With 11 air bridges down and reduced landings on the two runways, SUV is now a much smaller airport than Don Muang. They were running DM at about 105% of capacity with everything dialed in and no problems. They are now running SUV at about 140% capacity and effects are already seen with diversions. The safety factor is far more serious than the papers are letting on. Its no longer a TIT chuckle, now we are talking about 380 bodies in a 900,000 plane banging down at over 150 mph on a surface that is coming apart at an accelerating rate.

Think of what could happen to tourism with only one serious problem at SUV. These boys are playing with fire in a room full of gas cans.

[john b good]

I find the whole issue of the new airport to be laughable (if it weren't so serious)

Back in September 2006 the majority of posters on TV were lauding the new airport and saying what a fine job Thailand had done in finally getting it constructed and opened.

Many posters were jumping on the bandwagon and gushing about Suvarnabhumi.

Now they are putting together a panel of "independent experts" to prepare a report and recommendations to fix the runway problems.

Where exactly is Thailand going to get a panel of experts from (let alone independent)

If they are to resolve the problem once and for all they must bring together a group of international professional engineers experienced in this type of work.

All these "patches" that are currently being applied will only last a matter of weeks and more likely in fact only days.

As has been said in some of the foregoing posts they have to take the hard decision and bite the bullet and reconstruct the runways from the very beginning.

If this means constructing the two additional runways immediately and then bulldozing the others up so be it.

Meanwhile they have to re-open Don Muang immediately.

AND it should be remembered that whilst the current airplanes are heavy enough imagine what's gonna happen when they start bringing in the A380

The A380-800F weighs in at around 600 tonne.

But as has also been stated several times already the whole "snafu" (for Thailand "situation normal all <deleted>&^*d up) is just another clear case of "TIT"

[John K]

Unfortunately patching the runway is only a temporary fix. It seems the underlying problem is the foundation it is on. That would mean rip it up and start over. I don’t know if they realize that or not but someone familiar with material and labor costs could check to see if the estimated price tag covers that.

The problem is more serous than most think, not so much for the landings but the takeoffs. Here is why.

When a plane lands the engines are at or near idle and only powered up when the thrust reversers are used.

During takeoff they are at full throttle and the suction going into the mouths of the engines is enormous considering that some of the bigger engines are in the ballpark of 100,000 pounds (45,000 kg) thrust each.

The loose debris cause by a previous aircraft may get sucked into the engine and cause it to fail when full power is needed. What happens after that is easy to imagine.

I have seen some interesting footage of a 747 sitting over a rain puddle at idle with inflow strong enough to cause a water spout that was draining the puddle.

[farang prince]

Why don't they just close the place and move all the flights back to good old Don Muang, and then do a proper repair of all the faults.

Now they won't have a choice. They will have to go back to Don Muang because the airline industry is going to insist upon it. Thailand has already lost face over this fiasco...now the country is going to lose thousands of tourists unless they move airport operations back to DM.

[ColPyat]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/28...es_30025296.php

Expert warned 15 years ago building on a swamp was trouble

"Nature is now taking its toll in this swamp, and I feel everyone has got it wrong in the ongoing investigation. The bottom line is that with or without corruption - and every government in the design and construction phases is implicated - the runways and any structure not on piles will be subject to differential settlement and cracks," he said.

"All you have to do is to look at the Bang Na-Trat Highway. After so many years and multiple layers of compressed sub-base, the road still sinks," he said.

[HenryB]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/28...es_30025296.php

Expert warned 15 years ago building on a swamp was trouble

"Nature is now taking its toll in this swamp, and I feel everyone has got it wrong in the ongoing investigation. The bottom line is that with or without corruption - and every government in the design and construction phases is implicated - the runways and any structure not on piles will be subject to differential settlement and cracks," he said.

"All you have to do is to look at the Bang Na-Trat Highway. After so many years and multiple layers of compressed sub-base, the road still sinks," he said.

Smile this is Thailand. Stop the complaining if you don't like it leave it. I bet you compained about your home country that's why you left.

Edited January 28, 2007 by HenryB

[ColPyat]

Smile this is Thailand. Stop the complaining if you don't like it leave it. I bet you compained about your home country that's why you left.

If you care to read the article from the link i have provided, you will see that the quoted statement is from Dr Sumet Jumsai, a Thai architect.

Any other misunderstanding you would like me to clear up for you?

[CymruAmByth]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/28...es_30025296.php

Expert warned 15 years ago building on a swamp was trouble

"Nature is now taking its toll in this swamp, and I feel everyone has got it wrong in the ongoing investigation. The bottom line is that with or without corruption - and every government in the design and construction phases is implicated - the runways and any structure not on piles will be subject to differential settlement and cracks," he said.

"All you have to do is to look at the Bang Na-Trat Highway. After so many years and multiple layers of compressed sub-base, the road still sinks," he said.

Smile this is Thailand. Stop the complaining if you don't like it leave it. I bet you compained about your home country that's why you left.

Assuming YOU have to leave from time to time (by aircraft possibly) I sincerely hope a loose 1kg chunk of concrete does not get sucked into the engine of your flight on take off.

I very much doubt you would be smiling either at that time. Let us all know...if you survive!

[wintermute]

It hit the international news today. What horrible press this is for Thailand. I really can't believe it, yet I can.

Bangkok Airport Officially Unsafe -- CNN

Thailand is like the little engine that couldn't. It tries and tries but it just keeps screwing up.

[midas]

so now international airline pilots have expressed concern

so now I would like to know how long will this matter be debated

before decisive action is taken ?

If we wake up tomorrow morning and see on the news that a 747

crashed upon landing or take off because of a major structural failure in

in one of these runways Thailand will have a perpetual cloud hanging over

its reputation I hope they have the courage to act quickly now

[Tony Clifton]

Smile this is Thailand. Stop the complaining if you don't like it leave it. I bet you compained about your home country that's why you left.

Let me guess, you always arrive and leave by boat.

[Drafi]

Smile this is Thailand. Stop the complaining if you don't like it leave it. I bet you compained about your home country that's why you left.

This matter is too serios. No smiles about safety issues. And the "zero-option" (leave it when you don't like it) doesn't work for many. Think of all those who have to travel to Thailand (e.g. for business, family).

[apetley]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/28...es_30025296.php

Expert warned 15 years ago building on a swamp was trouble

"Nature is now taking its toll in this swamp, and I feel everyone has got it wrong in the ongoing investigation. The bottom line is that with or without corruption - and every government in the design and construction phases is implicated - the runways and any structure not on piles will be subject to differential settlement and cracks," he said.

"All you have to do is to look at the Bang Na-Trat Highway. After so many years and multiple layers of compressed sub-base, the road still sinks," he said.

Smile this is Thailand. Stop the complaining if you don't like it leave it. I bet you compained about your home country that's why you left.

I am one of many thousands of expats who choose to live in Thailand either because we like the place, fell in love with the place or someone or work here etc.

However, I am not blinded by the faults Thailand has and when one of those faults, greed and corruption has tarnished what should be the golden gateway to LOS then surely any sane person should be outraged as many of my Thai friends are.

They realise that much of their own hard earned tax Baht has gone not into the runway foundation but into someones already deep pockets.

Wake up and try to make Thailand an even better place to live and realise that constructive criticism is not complaining but the highlighting of a major and dangerous problem!

[Axel]

Some reasonable comments here. I always like the replies, 'if you don't like it, go back to your own country'. Now, in this case the comments were by an Thai architect as ColPyat pointed out.

Still waiting for some proposal to where to send this fellow, go home would not work, obviously?

[John K]

Admittedly This dirty laundry is causing a lot of face to be lost. Now Thaksin is even trying to distance himself from it. Engineers and politicians don’t mix very well, and even less well when the politicians are corrupt.

[Mobi]

It hit the international news today. What horrible press this is for Thailand. I really can't believe it, yet I can.

Bangkok Airport Officially Unsafe -- CNN

My guess is that it's only a matter of time before the world's press and television news channels descend on this story in a big way.

When it happens, it will do a lot of harm to Thailand's tourist industry.

And.. horror upon horrors... Thailand will become the laughing stock of the world.

This could even become a pivotal event in Thailand's history.

[jumnien]

Should put the Iraq war on the back pages which is why Thaksin is getting involved with the Republican lobbyists, right?

[younghusband]

Some reasonable comments here. I always like the replies, 'if you don't like it, go back to your own country'. Now, in this case the comments were by an Thai architect as ColPyat pointed out.

Still waiting for some proposal to where to send this fellow, go home would not work, obviously?

Not just any Thai architect but the extremely well connected Cambridge educated Dr Sumet Jumsai, son of ML Manich Jumsai of dictionary fame who, as longer terms residents will remember,also owned the Ploenchit bookshop (by Erawan tea rooms, remember that!).Sumet was responsible for in my view two of the oddest constructions in Bangkok, the Elephant Building and the old British Council (port hole) building in Siam Square.But he is a good architect and a highly civilised man with an eclectic range of cultural interests.

Edited January 28, 2007 by younghusband

[John K]

I just read the CNN story and some of the cracks are near air bridges. That is bad seeing is the weight of the aircraft sitting at the gates are damaging the tarmac. 11 out of 51 down, wow 20% out of order in 4 months. At that rate by June they all should be down when the early rains have started. Does anyone know of a map that points out the locations of the damage? I thought it was only taxiways and runways that had problems.

[george]

Update:

Some flight services will likely return the Don Muang Airport

BANGKOK: -- Transport Minister Admiral Theera Haocharoen will Monday convene a crucial meeting to decide whether to transfer some flight services from Suvarnabhumi Airport back to Don Muang Airport amid a series of misfortunate events happening at the country's newest airtraffic facilities.

"We have to admit that repair works on the Suvarnabhumi Airport's taxiways and runway will affect its services," Theera said Sunday.

He believed if the Don Muang Airport was recommissioned to accommodate some flight services, airtraffic congestion at the Suvarnabhumi Airport would ease.

Last week, it was confirmed that the Suvarnabhumi Airport has cracks on its taxiways. On Thursday, the repair works also forced some flights to circle over the airport or land at UTapao military airfield in Chon Buri for refuelling and temporary parking.

Currently, up to 11 aerobridges at the Suvarnabhumi Airport could not provide services due to the cracked taxiways and partial cavedin surface on the runway.

The repairs were now ongoing but they would be able to solve the problems only on a temporary basis.

According to an informed source at the Transport Ministry, AOT board has already approved the plan to transfer some flight services back to the Don Muang Airport.

The old airport in Bangkok's Don Muang district was closed after the Suvarnabhumi Airport resumed its full commercial services four months ago.

--The Nation 2007-01-28

[Mid]

series of misfortunate events

Total BS ..................

preventable every last one

[jumnien]

The old airport in Bangkok's Don Muang district was closed after the Suvarnabhumi Airport resumed its full commercial services four months ago.

--The Nation 2007-01-28

Wrong again! The old airport has remained active and open on a daily basis every day since the opening of the new airport. Charter flights, private planes, flight training, fixed base operations, aircraft maintenance and military flights have been daily occurences as well as special events.

[JacknDanny]

Some reasonable comments here. I always like the replies, 'if you don't like it, go back to your own country'. Now, in this case the comments were by an Thai architect as ColPyat pointed out.

Still waiting for some proposal to where to send this fellow, go home would not work, obviously?

Not just any Thai architect but the extremely well connected Cambridge educated Dr Sumet Jumsai, son of ML Manich Jumsai of dictionary fame who, as longer terms residents will remember,also owned the Ploenchit bookshop (by Erawan tea rooms, remember that!).Sumet was responsible for in my view two of the oddest constructions in Bangkok, the Elephant Building and the old British Council (port hole) building in Siam Square.But he is a good architect and a highly civilised man with an eclectic range of cultural interests.

Thanks for that piece of captivating information younghusband. Keep it up sir

[cclub75]

I found this photo on the net... No source and no date (but it looks like The Nation, this week, I remember the title "safety in the balance").

These are nice "cracks" ! I mean it's more like runways within the runway.

Edited January 28, 2007 by cclub75

[Johpa]

Some reasonable comments here. I always like the replies, 'if you don't like it, go back to your own country'. Now, in this case the comments were by an Thai architect as ColPyat pointed out.

Still waiting for some proposal to where to send this fellow, go home would not work, obviously?

Not just any Thai architect but the extremely well connected Cambridge educated Dr Sumet Jumsai, son of ML Manich Jumsai of dictionary fame who, as longer terms residents will remember,also owned the Ploenchit bookshop (by Erawan tea rooms, remember that!).Sumet was responsible for in my view two of the oddest constructions in Bangkok, the Elephant Building and the old British Council (port hole) building in Siam Square.But he is a good architect and a highly civilised man with an eclectic range of cultural interests.

Thanks for that piece of captivating information younghusband. Keep it up sir

Captivating?!? Clearly the younger Jumsai rates as highly in architecture as does his father in the making of dictionaries. Not that either is not quite civilized or not that either does not possess a range of cultural interests, but the younger's architecture and the elder's dictionaries both leave something to be desired.

[Mai Krap]

I found this photo on the net... No source and no date (but it looks like The Nation, this week, I remember the title "safety in the balance").

These are nice "cracks" ! I mean it's more like runways within the runway.

Those are not cracks, they are part of the high tech drainage system

[Mai Krap]

A little reality check from Augest 2005

New Bangkok Airport Nears Completion Despite Setbacks, Corruption

By Scott Bobb

Bangkok

22 August 2005

Bobb report (Real Player) - Download 621k

Listen to Bobb report (Real Player)

Bobb Suvarnabhumi airport construction 210 eng 05

Construction at Suvarnabhumi airport

Thailand is in the final stages of building a new international airport which, when completed, will be one of the largest in the world. The Thai government is counting on the facility to make the kingdom the aviation hub of the region. But the project has been beset by construction problems and reports of corruption.

Trucks and tractors toil under heavy monsoon skies around a structure of steel ribs and glass, which is rising on a field of concrete surrounded by rice paddies and fishponds.

Bangkok's new airport, due to be completed September, is called Suvarnabhumi, which means "golden land." However, the decades-old project has proven to be a public relations minefield. Engineers have battled construction difficulties and opposition leaders charge that costs for the $5 billion facility have been inflated by corruption.

Suvarnabhumi airport

One report alleges there was a 40 percent mark-up on a $65 million contract for baggage-scanning machines. Another alleges irregularities in the allocation of the airport parking concession. Government officials have denied both allegations.

The president of the Engineering Institute of Thailand, Chulalongkorn University Professor Tortrakul Yomnak, says construction companies in the kingdom traditionally have paid government officials to obtain contracts. But he says these payments, usually about five percent of the total deal, have risen in recent years.

"I feel that the percentage of the commission, we call that commission, is getting higher and higher. I think it's four or five times more [than]in the past," he said.

Construction problems have also challenged engineers. The site lies on swampland

Bobb Suvarnabhumi airport runway 150 eng 22aug05

Suvarnabhumi airport runway

more than one meter below sea level. As a result, a three-meter dike and two large pumping stations were built to prevent flooding. Engineers also had to drain the construction site, which took several years and lowered the ground level by a further 1.5 meters.

Newspapers recently reported that the sinking ground had caused large cracks in the already finished runways.

Professor Tortrakul says a team from the Engineering Institute found that a 100-meter-long crack has emerged, but he says this is on the edge of the runway and does not pose a threat to the operation.

"There is what we call the differential sediment between the taxiway and the runway," he said. "So actually we need more time for the taxiway to sink, about 40 to 50 centimeters more."

The new airport, which was first planned decades ago, lies on 35 square kilometers of land east of the Thai capital.

It will replace Bangkok's 60 year-old Don Muang airport, located a few kilometers from downtown, which was originally a military airport with one runway. Don Muang has been expanded to the point that it handled 38-million passengers last year. But the construction chief of the new airport, John Murray, says over the sound of building machinery that the old airport has no room left to grow.

John Murray

John Murray, construction chief

"That airport has reached its capacity because the runways are too close together and the airport can't operate them simultaneously," explained Mr. Murray.

When the new airport opens next year, its two runways, four kilometers long and two kilometers apart, will allow simultaneous take-offs and landings every 45 seconds.

The seven-story terminal, one of the largest in the world, will cover the equivalent of one hundred football fields and will be able to handle 45 million passengers a year, or 9,000 per hour, through its 360 check-in counters. It will be able to berth simultaneously 120 airplanes, including five of the world's largest passenger plane, the new double-decker Airbus 380.

The airport will also boast the world's tallest airport control tower, 132 meters or 44 stories high. Its catering facilities will be able to prepare 65,000 passenger meals a day. And for transiting passengers, it will house scores of restaurants and snack bars, a 600-room hotel and a shopping mall of duty free stores.

Experts say a major challenge for any new airport is providing understandable signs for passengers. Officials plan to test the new airport by hiring college students to find their way unattended from the terminal entrance to the boarding gates.

John Murray, the construction chief, says the new airport is a major part of the Thai government's goal of making the kingdom the premier aviation hub in the region.

"They [the government] want to make this a showpiece," he added. "It wants it to be number one in the world in security, attractive to use, easy to use."

The Thai government has staked its reputation on Bangkok's new airport. And despite the difficulties, most experts believe the facility will provide an attractive, modern gateway to the region.

But to compete with other airports in the region, they say, the new facility will have to quickly process large numbers of passengers and their luggage, while satisfying the rigorous security requirements of today's air travel.

[IMA_FARANG]

everyone that is involved in the construction from the top down should be held responsible for this joke..called an airport.

Not likely in Thailand.

I once worked (quite a few years ago now) for a company that was building a communications system for the Iranian government during the time of the Shah.

A sub-contractor was building shelters for the comm equipment.

We started to install the equipment only to discover that the cement floor wouldn't support the wieght of the equipment. Seems that the floors were not solid cement, but rocks and gravel covered with a thin veneeer of cement.

When the Shah found out about the problem, he called in the contractor's company heads.

He had their families arrested. He told the company heads they had 3 weeks to solve the problems.

The Shah then called the head of his security police, and in front of the company execs, he told his security chief that if the execs did not have the problems fixed after 3 weeks he was too kill their children, one a day, until all the repairs were finished completely. He was to start with their youngest children.

Two weeks later all the floors in the communications buildings were repaired. Crews worked 24 hours a day to get it done. The company execs were told to pay for the repairs.

Not a democratic solution, but a very effective one.

That kind of thing wouldn't be possible in Thailand.

Edited January 28, 2007 by IMA_FARANG

[Jai Dee]

Decision today on shifting of flights

Theera says services will be affected; Don Muang likely to be recommissioned

The immediate fate of the troubled Suvar-nabhumi Airport will be decided at a top-level meeting headed by Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen today.

It may elect to transfer some flights back to the decommissioned Bangkok International Airport at Don Muang.

The multi-billion-baht new airport has suffered a series of setbacks disrupting services over recent days.

"We have to admit that the repair of Suvarnabhumi Airport taxiways and runways will affect services," Theera said yesterday.

He believes recommissioning Don Muang will ease air-traffic congestion at Suvarnabhumi.

Last week, it was confirmed that Suvarnabhumi has cracks on runways and taxiways. On Thursday, repair work forced some flights into holding patterns over the airport and others to refuel at U-Tapao airfield in Chon Buri.

As many as 11 aerobridges at Suvarnabhumi Airport cannot be used owing to cracks on their surfaces and partial cave-ins on a runway.

Temporary repairs have commenced.

Tortrakul Yommanak is leading an investigation into the problems and has estimated that permanent repairs could take as long as one year.

The Tortrakul-led probe is expected to conclude the causes within two weeks. Tortrakul is a board member of Airports of Thailand (AOT).

According to a Transport Ministry source, the AOT board had already approved the transfer of some flights back to Don Muang.

The old airport was closed to commercial traffic once Suvarnab-humi Airport was fully operational.

"The AOT-approved plan allows point-to-point domestic flights to return to Don Muang. The transfer of services is not mandatory. Each airline can choose to transfer back to the old airport, or not," the source said yesterday.

Bangkok Airways and Thai AirAsia are willing to return.

The image of Suvarnabhumi has suffered serious blows time and again since its opening.

On Saturday, water was discovered leaking into the passenger terminal from broken pipes.

Reports said domestic aviation authorities have refused to extend an international safety certificate.

They said the Department of Civil Aviation decided on Friday not to renew the airport's interim safety certificate that expired on Thursday.

The airport can, however, continue to operate without the licence.

Source: The Nation - 29 January 2007

[Screws]

ALL INTERNATIONAL flights should be moved back to Don Muang. SWB's runways might support local traffic, but will not stand international traffic for very long - not far into the wet season anyway, when it starts.

See how these problems happened just after the recent rains?

It appears that the runways are made from poo.

When will we see an amesty for whistleblowers?

When will we see some arrests?