Is There A Need For A Us Based Wiring Assistance Business

[Jingthing]

This topic is aimed at Americans who have or will have Thai visas extension that require you to show that you have wired in money from abroad into your Thai bank accont (and now this is needed three months in advance of extension applications).

Would you appreciate and potentially use a US based business that was able to wire money into your Thai bank account after you send them the funds plus wiring fees from a US bank by either personal US check or electronic wire transfer?

Cases where this might be needed:

-- for long term expats who no longer have active wire transfer agreements in effect with their US banks (or never did)

-- as above and don't wish to burden a friend of relative with wiring a large sum of money

-- as above and no longer have a friend or family member to ask

Such a business would of course need to firmly establish its reliability before people would trust them with their money, and of course, the fees would be rather stiff, but still significantly less than flying back to the US to handle a wire.

I realize there are many possible solutions for wiring money in, but given the inflexibility of Thai immigration about the timing of wires, I am wondering if people think this kind of business would be useful and/or successful for people in a wiring crunch.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Jingthing

[LivinLOS]

Flying back home to sort out a wire ??

Dont you just go to your online bank and send a swift payment ?? I have accounts all over the world (non in the US tho) and can move from any of them to any of them based on a call (up to 20k limits of many) or a fax or internet..

Flying somewhere to deal with a bank transfer.. Why ??

[Jingthing]

Flying back home to sort out a wire ??

Dont you just go to your online bank and send a swift payment ?? I have accounts all over the world (non in the US tho) and can move from any of them to any of them based on a call (up to 20k limits of many) or a fax or internet..

Flying somewhere to deal with a bank transfer.. Why ??

Good question.

The vast majority of US banks do not offer online international bank SWIFT transfers. Instead, the wires are effected by phone call or fax. These initial agreements are made in the US. Some people failed to make the proper wiring agreements before leaving the US, or the arrangements they did make can expire or sour for some reason. One bank I was working with which I thought I had a solid wiring agreement sent me a letter stating it was only good for three years. After that, must go back into a branch in the US to start again. There are many ways things could go wrong with these agreements.

I agree there are actions people can take to avoid the need for using this kind of "last resort" wiring service. But in real life, sometimes people don't plan properly or conditions change.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Jingthing

[silverhawk_usa]

What is currently working for me is a U.S. based credit card that has no fee for cash advance and only a 1% interational transaction fee. Go to Thai bank, (also used in Laos), take cash advance. Access U.S. bank online checking, send payment for cash advance to credit card company. Minimal fees and very quick.

Edited January 26, 2007 by silverhawk_usa

[jdinasia]

Nope .. see absolutely no need for it.

[jinjok]

im still pondering why anyone (at this juncture at least) would want a retirement visa ...and thereby possibly need such svcs.

ps: on my 2 meager debit cards i can pull out us600 a day

why would you even think about running a business -in thailand (and financial services as well). climate is worse than ever.

Edited January 26, 2007 by jinjok

[Jingthing]

What is currently working for me is a U.S. based credit card that has no fee for cash advance and only a 1% interational transaction fee. Go to Thai bank, (also used in Laos), take cash advance. Access U.S. bank online checking, send payment for cash advance to credit card company. Minimal fees and very quick.

SH, are these funds then deposited into your Thai bank account and does the account show the proper codes (international transfer) that immigration needs to see for visa extensions?

Most US based credit cards have much higher fees than yours, lucky for you.

[Jingthing]

im still pondering why anyone (at this juncture at least) would want a retirement visa ...and thereby possibly need such svcs.

ps: on my 2 meager debit cards i can pull out us600 a day

why would you even think about running a business -in thailand (and financial services as well). climate is worse than ever.

Not really the question. This is thaivisa.com, specializing in visas for Thailand. Lots of people want retirement extensions and marriage extensions. Remember, there has been a crackdown on visa runners, so even more reason to get a proper visa if you want to stay.

Talk about why Thailand sucks is pretty well covered elsewhere on the board.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Nope .. see absolutely no need for it.

Thanks for the feedback.

So what would you suggest an American to do whose wiring agreement has gone to pot and needs to meet a wiring deadline to transfer money in quickly to qualify for a visa extension? I would think most people in such a fix would ask a friend or relative. I talked to a friend about this who said they were concerned the IRS would notice such a big deposit and might be an audit issue, so maybe asking a friend would be a burden to the friend.

To be clear, there are certainly many things an expat can do before coming to Thailand to secure his wiring options. But in life, things change, banks change their rules, merge with new banks, you didn't return a security card because it got sent to your friend's US address (and hundreds more reasons why things could sour over the years), and then you need to do a wire soon. The idea is for a "last resort" service when the normal options aren't working for you.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Jingthing

[naka]

Flying back home to sort out a wire ??

Dont you just go to your online bank and send a swift payment ?? I have accounts all over the world (non in the US tho) and can move from any of them to any of them based on a call (up to 20k limits of many) or a fax or internet..

Flying somewhere to deal with a bank transfer.. Why ??

Will US bank's not carry out these transactions based on a signed letter

containing the appropriate instructions ?

Perhaps no one writes letters in America anymore

Naka.

[sfokevin]

What is currently working for me is a U.S. based credit card that has no fee for cash advance and only a 1% interational transaction fee. Go to Thai bank, (also used in Laos), take cash advance. Access U.S. bank online checking, send payment for cash advance to credit card company. Minimal fees and very quick.

Could you possible tell us the brand/bank of your U.S. based credit card

[LivinLOS]

Flying back home to sort out a wire ??

Dont you just go to your online bank and send a swift payment ?? I have accounts all over the world (non in the US tho) and can move from any of them to any of them based on a call (up to 20k limits of many) or a fax or internet..

Flying somewhere to deal with a bank transfer.. Why ??

Will US bank's not carry out these transactions based on a signed letter

containing the appropriate instructions ?

Perhaps no one writes letters in America anymore

Naka.

Thats my thought.. Absolute worst possible case is needing to have something witnessed by a official (embassy, police, lawyer) and DHL'ed..

Anyway I bank offshore..

[astral]

Trying to make a mountain of a mole hill.

[Jingthing]

Flying back home to sort out a wire ??

Dont you just go to your online bank and send a swift payment ?? I have accounts all over the world (non in the US tho) and can move from any of them to any of them based on a call (up to 20k limits of many) or a fax or internet..

Flying somewhere to deal with a bank transfer.. Why ??

Will US bank's not carry out these transactions based on a signed letter

containing the appropriate instructions ?

Perhaps no one writes letters in America anymore

Naka.

In general, absolutely not. Things have gotten even tighter since 911 and Homeland Security.

[Jingthing]

Trying to make a mountain of a mole hill.

I appreciate the feedback.

I do wonder if the people who don't think this is ever a problem are Americans.

[silverhawk_usa]

What is currently working for me is a U.S. based credit card that has no fee for cash advance and only a 1% interational transaction fee. Go to Thai bank, (also used in Laos), take cash advance. Access U.S. bank online checking, send payment for cash advance to credit card company. Minimal fees and very quick.

Could you possible tell us the brand/bank of your U.S. based credit card

After posting this information I had second thoughts. I realized the information is not that useful as a whole because the card I use (Visa) is through a Credit Union, with lower rates, provided by my former employer and membership is limited.

However, I have used this same method in a pinch with a standard Visa Card but the International Transaction fees were higher.

Edited January 27, 2007 by silverhawk_usa

[silverhawk_usa]

What is currently working for me is a U.S. based credit card that has no fee for cash advance and only a 1% interational transaction fee. Go to Thai bank, (also used in Laos), take cash advance. Access U.S. bank online checking, send payment for cash advance to credit card company. Minimal fees and very quick.

SH, are these funds then deposited into your Thai bank account and does the account show the proper codes (international transfer) that immigration needs to see for visa extensions?

Most US based credit cards have much higher fees than yours, lucky for you.

Yes, thanks I am lucky this works out.

Yes it is then deposited. It shows in my BKK Bank book simply as a DEP (deposit). In looking at the possible codes listed I do not see any other code that would specifically identify it as a international transaction. Why do think that is necessary for a visa extension? For retirement visa they are interested in the amount in the bank. I don't think whether it came from overseas is relevant or not. IMHO.

As for the poster who asks "Why would you want a retirement visa?", I ask Why Wouldn't You? It gives me a 1 year visa which along with a multiple entry permit I can come and go as I please any number of times. I can extend this visa yearly by simply going to the Immigration Office and not have to exit the country at all if I do not care to. With a legitimate pension (yes, lucky again) I do not need to keep any substantial amount of funds in Thailand at all (although if I had I would have made money on the baht value increase, not so lucky).

In my opinion, if you do not need to work in Thailand, the "Retirement Visa" is possibly the best of the lot.

[Jingthing]

I believe that it is very relevant that the funds you show in your bank account for a retirement extension are transferred in from outside Thailand! Otherwise, it looks like you are working in Thailand.

I started this thread because a friend of mine was curious about whether there is any demand in Thailand for this service (a last resort way of wiring in international money in time to qualify for Thai visa externsions).

Given the downright hostility to the idea (which I still think is a good one, but if people can't even imagine there might be a real need for this, maybe I am wrong) I guess he is going to have to go for the chocolate covered scorpion import business instead.

[old wanderer]

A friend of mine that has been here for years on a retirement visa, simply writes a check each month on his USA account and deposits it to his Thai account.

Yes it takes 6 weeks for the funds to clear, but so what....it is a regualr montly deposit, and the cost is minimal. It produces a nice record of regular payments each month....

Now if you are a person that exist hand to mouth....it may not work for you, but for most it will be OK.

[Jingthing]

A friend of mine that has been here for years on a retirement visa, simply writes a check each month on his USA account and deposits it to his Thai account.

Yes it takes 6 weeks for the funds to clear, but so what....it is a regualr montly deposit, and the cost is minimal. It produces a nice record of regular payments each month....

Now if you are a person that exist hand to mouth....it may not work for you, but for most it will be OK.

Thats very cool. So I gather immigration accepts that. What bank is he using? Anyone else using that method? How exactly does that work currency-wise? Are the dollars changed into baht in Thailand (hopefully) rather than the US sending over baht? Saves on wire fees for sure too.

BTW, I don't think immigration cares at all whether the deposits are regular or not. The only things that matter are that the money be there 3 months before extension application, and also the required amount still there at time of application. I also think they do care that the money came in from outside Thailand.

Edited January 27, 2007 by Jingthing

[cathyy]

Will US bank's not carry out these transactions based on a signed letter

containing the appropriate instructions ?

It depends on the bank. Mine will not send a wire transfer unless I am physically in the bank signing the papers. I did indeed ask about phone calls, faxes, and letters.

[Jingthing]

Will US bank's not carry out these transactions based on a signed letter

containing the appropriate instructions ?

It depends on the bank. Mine will not send a wire transfer unless I am physically in the bank signing the papers. I did indeed ask about phone calls, faxes, and letters.

I have found that most US banks will certainly NOT wire with a letter instructions, and some will only wire if you physically bring your ass to a US branch . Most will wire if a previous wiring agreement in person was made in person. They all have different and specific rules. It is because of these difficulties with US banks that I thought a last resort wiring service might be needed.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Will US bank's not carry out these transactions based on a signed letter

containing the appropriate instructions ?

It depends on the bank. Mine will not send a wire transfer unless I am physically in the bank signing the papers. I did indeed ask about phone calls, faxes, and letters.

I have found that most US banks will certainly NOT wire with a letter instructions, and some will only wire if you physically bring your ass to a US branch . Most will wire if a previous wiring agreement in person was made in person. They all have different and specific rules. It is because of these difficulties with US banks that I thought a last resort wiring service might be needed.

Zero problem to wire from Bank America's web account interface. I set up my swift account from BOA to Bangkok bank all remotely from Thailand. No sweat what so ever.

Some of the other posters have alluded to a US based bank card that only costs $1 for international transaction. I have a paypal debit card and indeed the fee is $1. The nice thing about it is you can apply for it from thailand and to use it you enable your Paypal account to automatically debit or credit a US bank account using the routing and bank account #'s and you can use multiple accounts and change on the fly. Its really smooth.

I think we will see large companies like Paypal, Google, Ebay etc swallow up a lot of services like this and lower the fees we all pay due to their economy of scale. Companies like Western Union will not likely fare well.

A small player could set up something to do a transaction like this but their fees and services will not be competitive. In addition these companies will have many value added features like frequent flyer miles and the ability to pay between members etc etc.

[Jingthing]

Point taken about the lack of interest in the business idea.

But here is now another good forum to talk about wiring strategies.

I don't really understand that paypal scheme you mention. Are you talking about teller point of sale? Are you saying you could directly transfer funds into your Thai bank account that way? Because for visa extensions, ATM withdrawals or withdrawals at all without being deposited into your Thai bank account, do not cut the mustard.

BTW, the original idea acknowledged there are many ways to wire money in. The idea was a LAST RESORT method, that was bad, but worked, and was better than the ultimate last resort, flying to the US just to sort out a wire. In real life, not everyone prepares properly, they fail to do the proper research to be banking with the right bank, policies change, previous plans don't work as expected, and then they find themselves in a crunch to qualify for a visa extension.

Edited January 28, 2007 by Jingthing

[Beavis and Butthead]

Ever heard of a fax? Call your bank. BTW, it's good to see another lib has left the US

[Jingthing]

Ever heard of a fax? Call your bank. BTW, it's good to see another lib has left the US

You really don't get it. (I guess with a name like Beavis and Butthead, you wouldn't, would you?) Most US banks require a previous agreement made in the US to accept any request for an international wire. Geez!!

BTW, expats can and should vote.

Edited January 28, 2007 by Jingthing

[richard10365]

My retirement paycheck goes from the U.S. Treasury to Bangkok Bank, NY, who then SWIFTS it over to Thailand. $5 to swift it and 200 baht to convert it to baht once it gets here.

The first step is to open an account here in Thailand with Bangkok Bank. After that, using the internet, I requested my monthly pension check go to Bangkok Bank, NY using their ABN routing number, my account number, my name and the type of account it will go in (savings or checking).

When I need it, Bangkok Bank gives me a letter showing the money was transfered from the USA to Thailand.

Dealing with a U.S. based organization while living here in Thailand seems counter productive. My money and assets are here in Thailand. Putting your organization in the loop would be an unneeded step and increase the possibility of things going wrong.

Besides, I'm not sure you can beat the rates Bangkok Bank is providing using their New York office.

[lopburi3]

My retirement paycheck goes from the U.S. Treasury to Bangkok Bank, NY, who then SWIFTS it over to Thailand. $5 to swift it and 200 baht to convert it to baht once it gets here.

The first step is to open an account here in Thailand with Bangkok Bank. After that, using the internet, I requested my monthly pension check go to Bangkok Bank, NY using their ABN routing number, my account number, my name and the type of account it will go in (savings or checking).

When I need it, Bangkok Bank gives me a letter showing the money was transfered from the USA to Thailand.

Dealing with a U.S. based organization while living here in Thailand seems counter productive. My money and assets are here in Thailand. Putting your organization in the loop would be an unneeded step and increase the possibility of things going wrong.

Besides, I'm not sure you can beat the rates Bangkok Bank is providing using their New York office.

If this was done with a normal Bangkok Bank account it might not be legal if found out as US Government deposits can only go to authorized countries/bank accounts and normal accounts in Thailand do not meet those requirements (there is a personal access in person account from BBL that can be set up using special procedures that meets requirements - what they need is ability to stop access upon your death). You might want to confirm the legality with payer.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Point taken about the lack of interest in the business idea.

But here is now another good forum to talk about wiring strategies.

I don't really understand that paypal scheme you mention. Are you talking about teller point of sale? Are you saying you could directly transfer funds into your Thai bank account that way? Because for visa extensions, ATM withdrawals or withdrawals at all without being deposited into your Thai bank account, do not cut the mustard.

BTW, the original idea acknowledged there are many ways to wire money in. The idea was a LAST RESORT method, that was bad, but worked, and was better than the ultimate last resort, flying to the US just to sort out a wire. In real life, not everyone prepares properly, they fail to do the proper research to be banking with the right bank, policies change, previous plans don't work as expected, and then they find themselves in a crunch to qualify for a visa extension.

Your going to have to throw out some numbers for your hypothetical service. Lets say someone wants to transfer 800K baht in a hurry. How much is the fee going to be? Lets say its on the order of Western Unions 7%. Well 7% is 56K baht which is plenty to fly round trip back to San Fran etc and then some. If someone is caught out and not creative enough to use a limited power of attorney with a lawyer etc or family member, web service, writing a check, using a fax etc then the high fee alternative would still be cheaper to fly home and set things up... Big deal if the Visa applicant has to wait a few months and live on a single entry visa until applying and receiving an extension. Incidentally most people with enough money to do things like this or pay high fees are usually smart enough to figure things out in advance or creative enough to do them remotely.

Lets see you lay out a business plan highlight with specifics.

[Jingthing]

Not at the business plan stage. The fees would have to be stiff as this would be a small niche business. Just looking for feedback from long term people who can imagine a time when they might need such a last resort service or at least really appreciate that it was there, just in case.

So far, it is clear there is no support for the basic idea.