BOI WP titles

[nami]

Hi there,

 

I am working for a huge European multinational BOI sponsored company and the job title in my WP does not match the title in my contract. Last year, due to the emergency decree which strengthen the penalties for irregularities, the company rushed to update all the WP titles basically to remove project or country specific parts from them. At the time I already tried to get them to put my right job title in the WP but I was told that the Labor department only recognizes 3 keywords: Specialist, Manager and Director. Since I have never heard about this I questioned the veracity of it and they basically told me that this is what the lawyer had told them.

 

Last week a colleague found a new job and then faced several issues with the new company because of the 'specialist' part in the job title and because it was not matching the contract title. He has been trying to get the WP title updated so that it matches with the contract but he has been told that it is not possible and the same thing about these so-called keywords.

 

Has anybody ever heard about such thing as those specialist, manager and director appendixes? I have read a lot of labor documents and have found no mention to any this at all.

What are the potential problems of having a different title in the WP and in the employment contract? Like if you get promoted and not only the company never updates your WP title but are actually telling you that it can't be changed to match your real (contract) title.

[jumbo]

Yes, this has actually always been the case, the titles should hold some specific names to make sure this job cannot be done by a Thai National

They are looking more and more to this at the BOI and One Stop service centers.

My job title and therefor business card also have a different title than my contract and work permit

It is imminent that the contract and work permit are the same as the contract has to be submitted for the work permit request as well

[FritsSikkink]

My title in the WP is project manager (it system)

[nami]

Thanks for the replies.

 

What confuses me is that in my previous job in a Thai limited company I had a normal title without any fancy keywords. Also, one of my colleagues was previously working in a BOI company with a simple title such as senior web developer.

[anon789561]

11 minutes ago, nami said:

Thanks for the replies.

 

What confuses me is that in my previous job in a Thai limited company I had a normal title without any fancy keywords. Also, one of my colleagues was previously working in a BOI company with a simple title such as senior web developer.

i had the same thing a few years back and i'd arranged and got the job interviews etc through the western management. job description, title etc all as I have always done and pay etc agreed. got sent the contract from HR it wasn't my job title at all. can't remember what it was but i remember bringing it up with the MD there and he said it's just for the BOI. we know what your title is and what you will be doing here but that's how they require it. i said i need my normal title for my email signature, literature and biz cards etc because that title will make no sense to my clients and he said that's fine, it'll only be on the contract and WP. seemed pretty daft at the time but didn't think much of it. didn't affect anything

[nami]

appreciate the replies guys.

 

the thing is I am a technical lead based on my contract but my WP still says Senior mobile development specialist, that actually was my first position in this company. I am worried that if I would apply for a new job in a new company I could have issues the same way as my colleague has had. He applied for BA position in a banking job and got flagged because his WP currently says business analysis specialist. It is pretty stupid since specialist in that context Would be the equivalent to expert, but being a bank with strict HR process really raised red flags. He has been told that they can't actually process his application so he will have to stay with us unable to change jobs. I am concerned that if I decide to change jobs I could face a similar issue, them questioning me how can I be tech lead when my WP says I am just a mobile developer. This is just very stressful specially because our HR department seems to be ran by @&))?/! Amateurs...

[anon789561]

4 hours ago, nami said:

appreciate the replies guys.

 

the thing is I am a technical lead based on my contract but my WP still says Senior mobile development specialist, that actually was my first position in this company. I am worried that if I would apply for a new job in a new company I could have issues the same way as my colleague has had. He applied for BA position in a banking job and got flagged because his WP currently says business analysis specialist. It is pretty stupid since specialist in that context Would be the equivalent to expert, but being a bank with strict HR process really raised red flags. He has been told that they can't actually process his application so he will have to stay with us unable to change jobs. I am concerned that if I decide to change jobs I could face a similar issue, them questioning me how can I be tech lead when my WP says I am just a mobile developer. This is just very stressful specially because our HR department seems to be ran by @&))?/! Amateurs...

to be fair mate, HR the world over are a bunch of bloody clueless amateurs it's just magnified here especially when dealing with foreign staff as they then have to try and get their heads round Labour dept and BOI rules which are often complicated and more often make no real sense as in the subject you brought up for example. i understand that banks will have strict processes but it seems odd that the bank your friend applied to or was HH for aren't aware of these issues or could at least make the effort to find out. but then expecting a thai HR person in the banking sector to make an effort is a big ask

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, nami said:

appreciate the replies guys.

 

the thing is I am a technical lead based on my contract but my WP still says Senior mobile development specialist, that actually was my first position in this company. I am worried that if I would apply for a new job in a new company I could have issues the same way as my colleague has had. He applied for BA position in a banking job and got flagged because his WP currently says business analysis specialist. It is pretty stupid since specialist in that context Would be the equivalent to expert, but being a bank with strict HR process really raised red flags. He has been told that they can't actually process his application so he will have to stay with us unable to change jobs. I am concerned that if I decide to change jobs I could face a similar issue, them questioning me how can I be tech lead when my WP says I am just a mobile developer. This is just very stressful specially because our HR department seems to be ran by @&))?/! Amateurs...

Ask them to make it technical lead manager or technical lead specialist.

[ecline]

In my last two work permits through the BOI my first title was "ICT Projects Leader". That was later changed to "Senior Data Analyst".  In each case there was never any issue about keywords in the job title. Maybe "leader" and "senior" already somehow satisfied that requirement, if it actually exists. When my position changed to head up the data sciences effort at our company, I was required to show past evidence that I actually had the education and experience necessary to hold that job. But it was pretty much a formality and was easily satisfied by a letter from a previous employer. My contract did have to be changed to have the title in the contract match the title in the WP. But this was not a problem at all, so it seems strange that this is even an issue at your company. The BOI is usually pretty reasonable about these things, so if there is a problem, it probably resides within your HR department.

[chrisinth]

8 hours ago, nami said:

appreciate the replies guys.

 

the thing is I am a technical lead based on my contract but my WP still says Senior mobile development specialist, that actually was my first position in this company. I am worried that if I would apply for a new job in a new company I could have issues the same way as my colleague has had. He applied for BA position in a banking job and got flagged because his WP currently says business analysis specialist. It is pretty stupid since specialist in that context Would be the equivalent to expert, but being a bank with strict HR process really raised red flags. He has been told that they can't actually process his application so he will have to stay with us unable to change jobs. I am concerned that if I decide to change jobs I could face a similar issue, them questioning me how can I be tech lead when my WP says I am just a mobile developer. This is just very stressful specially because our HR department seems to be ran by @&))?/! Amateurs...

As far as I'm aware, unless the new job being seeked is within the same company, you will need a new work permit as the details in the old WP would be obsolete (even if doing the same job with the new company). So the details in the old WP don't mean anything as it would be cancelled. That has been my experience.

[jumbo]

Last time I renewed my work permit they asked me specifically to explain how I would transfer knowledge

The WFOE i work for has one Thai Director who used to be a BIO honcho, this makes things easier for us down the line, but I think the specific work permit issues could come from there as well. Everything has to be done by the book and that surely is what the board wants as well.

 

Clearly Thai staff that are unexperienced in dealing with the BIO could stumble over these issues there are companies that can assist in this matter, I know multinationals that do so, at a fee of course

 

Words like; Senior, Specialist, Lead, Manager and similar seem to do the trick when applying for work permits.

Also everything has to fit into the Organization Schedule that also has to be submitted with the application.

Hence, if a new position has been created, BOI will notice and could have questions

 

[nami]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Ask them to make it technical lead manager or technical lead specialist.

That's what I will ask them to do. Thanks man.

[nami]

1 hour ago, chrisinth said:

As far as I'm aware, unless the new job being seeked is within the same company, you will need a new work permit as the details in the old WP would be obsolete (even if doing the same job with the new company). So the details in the old WP don't mean anything as it would be cancelled. That has been my experience.

Both companies agreed to have the WP transferred from one employer to the other, so no cancellation was needed.

[chrisinth]

I'm a bit confused with the information you are being given regarding only three types of job description. I work for a company under BOI and my job description of QA/QC Coordinator is the same, both on the WP and in the company documents. This obviously could depend on the local labour office.

 

That said, I do remember that during an extension, my boss, when he moved from GM to MD, was fined for having his job description changed in the company documents without informing the labour office of the change to have his WP amended. This was a few years ago but still adds more confusion as the WP should follow the company's job description for the individual.

[nami]

1 hour ago, chrisinth said:

I'm a bit confused with the information you are being given regarding only three types of job description. I work for a company under BOI and my job description of QA/QC Coordinator is the same, both on the WP and in the company documents. This obviously could depend on the local labour office.

 

That said, I do remember that during an extension, my boss, when he moved from GM to MD, was fined for having his job description changed in the company documents without informing the labour office of the change to have his WP amended. This was a few years ago but still adds more confusion as the WP should follow the company's job description for the individual.

That's my understanding as well, titled should be the same and I don't believe that information they are claiming about those particular keywords. 

 

I am based in Bangkok and using the One Stop Service at Chamchuri Square. Just out of curiosity, are you based in Bangkok as well?

[jumbo]

2 hours ago, chrisinth said:

I'm a bit confused with the information you are being given regarding only three types of job description. I work for a company under BOI and my job description of QA/QC Coordinator is the same, both on the WP and in the company documents. This obviously could depend on the local labour office.

 

That said, I do remember that during an extension, my boss, when he moved from GM to MD, was fined for having his job description changed in the company documents without informing the labour office of the change to have his WP amended. This was a few years ago but still adds more confusion as the WP should follow the company's job description for the individual.

I don't think anyone mentioned 'three types of job description' some name suggestions were floated from people that obviously have some practical experience

Yes, everything always depends on the interpretation of things in the local office for every type of (non) governmental office as long as they don't have to report to Bangkok

 

And correct, contract and work permit should mention the same job and description while in practice you could have a different job name, it has been done and still..

 

[chrisinth]

2 hours ago, nami said:

That's my understanding as well, titled should be the same and I don't believe that information they are claiming about those particular keywords. 

 

I am based in Bangkok and using the One Stop Service at Chamchuri Square. Just out of curiosity, are you based in Bangkok as well?

No, not in BKK further up north in Phitsanulok.