Doctors claim paraquat is safe for farm use

[Swimman]

Paraquat is banned in the UK and western Europe. The Drs are likely correct in denying a link between paraquat and diseases such as necrotising fasciitis and Parkinson’s but the fact remains that paraquat is a dangerous poison which has NO antidote and it is disappointing that these doctors are supporting its continued use. More detail can be found in the link.

https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/paraquat/basics/facts.asp

 

[attrayant]

Just now, Swimman said:

Paraquat is banned in the UK and western Europe. The Drs are likely correct in denying a link between paraquat and diseases such as necrotising fasciitis and Parkinson’s but the fact remains that paraquat is a dangerous poison which has NO antidote and it is disappointing that these doctors are supporting its continued use. More detail can be found in the link.

https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/paraquat/basics/facts.asp

 

 

But once again, the danger is to untrained applicators and others who are occupationally exposed.

 

The nonsense in the OP is bad enough.  Let's not add our own craziness to the debate by using the old canard that "countries X, Y and Z ban [something], so we should too!"  Also, the fact that something can be used to commit suicide is not grounds for banning it.

[essox essox]

i just searched PARAQUAT....this is the result......Paraquat (dipyridylium) is a highly toxic weed killer (herbicide). In the past, the United States encouraged Mexico to use it to destroy marijuana plants. Later, research showed this herbicide was dangerous to workers who applied it to the plants.

these doctors know nothing are they qualified???

[attrayant]

21 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

4 hours ago, webfact said:

A group of doctors said in a press conference arranged by Agricultural Science Foundation yesterday that paraquat, a widely used herbicide in Thailand, is not harmful to health,

 

I thought that giving ringing health endorsements to seriously suspect chemical products was illegal.

 

They may have been referring to the minuscule residues found on farm produce, not to being occupationally exposed.  That's the only explanation that could give the story any kind of credibility.  Unfortunately, journalists here don't seem to be interested in getting details like that, so we're all left to speculate and wallow in our own fear.

[Swimman]

3 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

But once again, the danger is to untrained applicators and others who are occupationally exposed.

 

The nonsense in the OP is bad enough.  Let's not add our own craziness to the debate by using the old canard that "countries X, Y and Z ban [something], so we should too!"  Also, the fact that something can be used to commit suicide is not grounds for banning it.

You are entitled to your opinion which I am not obliged to agree with. If you search the literature you will find case reports of 'trained' users dying as a result of accidental skin contamination.

[toybits]

Paraquat is banned in 33 countries, classified as a restricted agricultural chemical in many others. Once paraquat enters your body - it stays there forever - i.e. until that cell dies. While it is there, it will continue to poison you as your body does not have the capability of breaking down paraquat. Sadly, paraquat use will persist because it is the cheapest way of controlling weeds.  The other popular herbicide - Round Up (Glyphosate) is no better...

[attrayant]

1 minute ago, essox essox said:

i just searched PARAQUAT....this is the result......Paraquat (dipyridylium) is a highly toxic weed killer (herbicide). In the past, the United States encouraged Mexico to use it to destroy marijuana plants. Later, research showed this herbicide was dangerous to workers who applied it to the plants.

 

Thanks we already know this.  Anything ending with the suffix -cide is intended to be used to kill something (insecticide, fungicide, germicide and so on).  The question is, what does it kill, by what mechanism and in what dose?  We've all taken antibiotics before, which are drugs meant to kill things.  However those things are targeted, we must be sure to take the correct dose, and the substance (in any normal country) should be regulated and dispensed by a licensed professional.

 

Try not to be so afraid.

[bluesofa]

4 minutes ago, attrayant said:

They may have been referring to the minuscule residues found on farm produce, not to being occupationally exposed.  That's the only explanation that could give the story any kind of credibility.  Unfortunately, journalists here don't seem to be interested in getting details like that, so we're all left to speculate and wallow in our own fear.

It reminds me of the phrase: Never let the details get in the way of a good story.

 

[attrayant]

 

Quote

 

If you search the literature you will find case reports of 'trained' users dying as a result of accidental skin contamination.

 

Did you just really say, essentially, that accidents happen?  We already knew this.  I've already said earlier in this discussion that the compound is quite toxic, so I am not sure what your objection is. 

 

If you search the literature, you will find reports of 'trained' electricians dying as a result of being electrocuted, 'trained' lab technicians becoming infected with diseases from accidental needle pricks, 'trained' construction workers dying from job-related injuries, and so on.

 

BRB, searching literature.

 

Between 1963 and the present time, no deaths have occurred in persons occupationally exposed to paraquat in the U.K., and only a few trivial cases of dermal exposure are reported each year (M.A.F.F., 1965). The only deaths from paraquat poisoning that have occurred in the United Kingdom, where it is widely used, have been from suicide or accidental ingestion of concentrate from unlabelled or mislabelled bottles (Hansard, 1971 - 1972).

 

http://www.inchem.org/documents/jmpr/jmpmono/v072pr23.htm

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by attrayant

[Swimman]

1 minute ago, attrayant said:

 

 

Did you just really say, essentially, that accidents happen?  We already knew this.  I've already said earlier in this discussion that the compound is quite toxic, so I am not sure what your objection is. 

 

If you search the literature, you will find reports of 'trained' electricians dying as a result of being electrocuted, 'trained' lab technicians becoming infected with diseases from accidental needle pricks, 'trained' construction workers dying from job-related injuries, and so on.

Enough!  Please come back after you have used this stuff on your property and allowed children and pets to play with it.  The stuff is lethally toxic and banned by some 32 countries but you are arguing for its continued use? - Perhaps you also support the use of DDT another banned highly toxic chemical.

[wotsdermatter]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

"I still cannot see how paraquat can get into your body, as when spraying paraquat in the field, it will diffuse in the air in droplets that are far larger than those able to be inhaled into the lungs,” Somchai said

 

Out of all of the story, the above statement is the most poignant.  Maybe, just maybe, he has never been outside in the rain and breathed in any rainwater.  Also, maybe, just maybe, he has never been at farms when they have been spraying either by hand, which is common in Thailand or from the air by a crop duster. 

 

Can you honestly believe the following statement made by a competently trained doctor of medicine or imbecility - the Director of the Emergency Physicians College Dr Surajit Suntorntham said that in emergency medicine, the only sickness and death related to paraquat was in patients who intentionally or unintentionally consumed the herbicide, causing internal-organ failure?

 

Especially read from, "...the only sickness..."  He, in fact, with that statement, is refuting worldwide evidence to the contrary.  By comparing the use of this herbicide with its use in the U.S.A. is farcical as well because he admits it is used under strict safety regulations. For instance, physical exposure to the substance is reduced by delivering paraquat to farmers in ready-to-use packages, so they can spray it onto weeds without having to prepare and dilute the chemical themselves.  Thailand does not have those controls in place.  Incidentally, does he have shares of the companies manufacturing the stuff?

[Lupatria]

I wonder how much they forked in for their unqualified and misleading "expertise". 

Give them their daily dose of paraquat for a year and after a medical examination ask them to repeat their nonsense, if they are still fit and available to do so.

[Ron19]

18 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Thanks we already know this.  Anything ending with the suffix -cide is intended to be used to kill something (insecticide, fungicide, germicide and so on).  The question is, what does it kill, by what mechanism and in what dose?  We've all taken antibiotics before, which are drugs meant to kill things.  However those things are targeted, we must be sure to take the correct dose, and the substance (in any normal country) should be regulated and dispensed by a licensed professional.

 

Try not to be so afraid.

I can't workout what point you are trying to make here, all I know is that I am afraid and I have no wish to go through this again. Any product that is capable of causing this has no right to be available on any market.

 

[Swimman]

4 minutes ago, Ron19 said:

I can't workout what point you are trying to make here, all I know is that I am afraid and I have no wish to go through this again. Any product that is capable of causing this has no right to be available on any market.

 

If that is the result of paraquat contamination you are very lucky to have survived.  

[Kieran00001]

2 hours ago, Ron19 said:

No but 3 doctors and two hospitals with a week spent in one of them September last year. Walked around wearing thongs in our Banana patch that had just been sprayed with Paraquat.

My fault for not being sufficiently protected but that doesn't alter the fact that Paraquat is a dangerous product.

 

I don;t walk around anywhere outside in a thong, i wear briefs.

[attrayant]

6 minutes ago, Swimman said:

Enough!  Please come back after you have used this stuff on your property and allowed children and pets to play with it.

 

Why would I do that?  Where have I said that anyone should do that? I'll thank you to stop putting words in my mouth.  I have repeatedly said that use should be restricted to license applicators.

 

6 minutes ago, Swimman said:

The stuff is lethally toxic...

 

Yeah, I've already said that too.

 

6 minutes ago, Swimman said:

...and banned by some 32 countries but you are arguing for its continued use?

 

This is a flaccid argument.  Look, here are the two dozen EU nations that have outlawed marijuana.  I guess that stuff is "lethally toxic" too?

 

 

And just look, LGBT relationships are illegal in 74 countries!  That beats your measly 32-country paraquat ban, so I guess Thailand should get busy doing what 74 other countries have already agreed upon.

 

 

You should be able to argue for or against something based on its merits, rather than on who else in the world agrees with you.

 

6 minutes ago, Swimman said:

Perhaps you also support the use of DDT another banned highly toxic chemical.

 

Whether I do or not has zero bearing in this discussion.  Is it possible for you to stick to the topic, which is not DDT?  But since you brought it up, DDT use is still permitted for disease vector control:

 

 

 

[humbug]

2 hours ago, bluesofa said:

I think this was Pornpimol Kongtip at the Department of Occupational Health and Safety.

What she said is in this link: http://www.earththailand.org/en/article/485

 

Interestingly, a previous post I made referred to paraquat being banned in 32 countries. In this link it claims it's 53 countries, including Vietnam and Laos.

 

yes, that is the lady, thank you for the link

[Lemonltr]

At what stage does the 'hippocratic oath' become the 'hypocritic' oath? 

[Swimman]

2 minutes ago, Lemonltr said:

At what stage does the 'hippocratic oath' become the 'hypocritic' oath? 

The "Hippocratic oath" is archaic and is no longer relevant to the practice of modern day medicine. In the UK it has been replaced by "Good Medical Practise" - (a copy can be downloaded from the link) published by the GMC. 

 

https://www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guidance/ethical-guidance-for-doctors/good-medical-practice

[bluesofa]

13 minutes ago, Lemonltr said:

At what stage does the 'hippocratic oath' become the 'hypocritic' oath? 

I see it more as a hypocritic oaf.

 

[dwcrist]

" it will diffuse in the air in droplets that are far larger than those able to be inhaled into the lungs "

 

Droplets larger than your mouth?

[janclaes47]

6 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Hi-so people sitting on expensive chairs, wearing expensive clothes, deciding on how this very dangerous chemical will not affect poor farmers using it EVERY DAY. PATHETIC. 

You are talking about the US government, right?

 

6 hours ago, webfact said:

He noted that the United States not only allows the use of paraquat, but has increased the amount of paraquat usage in its agricultural sector without jeopardising the health of it citizens.

 

[masuk]

5 hours ago, Thechook said:

It's still used in Australia but farmers can't just use it whenever they want.  You need a licence to purchase it and only an accredited person can administer it and there are strict limits on how many times it can be applied.

I was about to say the same thing.   It is ESSENTIAL that farmers and other users of these chemicals receive some training as to accurate measurements, and dilutions to backpacks or tanks are measured carefully.

 

[Krataiboy]

Did this pair of clowns read the extract from Wikipedia's overview of paraquat (see below)?  Probably,  plus lots of other stuff describing the public health dangers of yet another dodgy bi-product of Big Oil.

But it's cheap compared with safer alternatives, and the Thai farming lobby is a powerful force in elections. Say no more, wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

Paraquat in developing countries 

Paraquat was promoted in the developing countries since the 1960s and is classified as moderately toxic. It is responsible for the deaths of thousands of people worldwide. Paraquat is banned in many countries: Austria, Denmark, Hungary, Republic of Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, Malaysia and etc. Despite this the European Commission’s Standing Committee on the Food Chain and Animal Health approved the use of paraquat in European Union countries, despite the disagreement of some of them. US-EPA classified paraquat as a restricted pesticide. Even though an ongoing international campaign for a global ban, the cheap and therefore popular paraquat continues to be unrestricted in most developing countries. 

[snowgard]

youtube has a lot documentaions about dangerous weed killers. Just use a filter bigger as 20 minutes. Then you get something like this: 

Roundup: 

1080 (New Zealand) 

And a lot more!!!

 

[Rally123]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

A group of doctors said in a press conference arranged by Agricultural Science Foundation yesterday that paraquat, a widely used herbicide in Thailand, is not harmful to health, unless people directly drank it or bathed in it

And why would someone want to bathe in it? I can't believe they gave that as an answer.

[jonstarjon]

I suffered a poisoning with powder used for killing mosquitoes 4 years ago. The pathology of the compound found in the tissue samples from my gut showed it came from Thailand (there were two possible locations for ingestion, Thailand or China) was the fact that paraquat was in the compound. The report didn't say that paraquat did the poisoning. However... BTW. Only two people could have got it into my mouth... WIFE or MIL.. Tempted to have a blind vote to get a gut feel for who did it... I think the wife would lose but who knows, both had good and independent reasons for helping me out of this world. Both may have succeeded. I now have terminal cancer.

Edited April 25, 2018 by jonstarjon
Clarity

[happy chappie]

 I say the doctors should prove this and have a hot bath in the stuff for an hour or so.bloody witch doctors.i wonder how much they paid for their positions.

[Kieran00001]

Quote

“I still cannot see how paraquat can get into your body, as when spraying paraquat in the field, it will diffuse in the air in droplets that are far larger than those able to be inhaled into the lungs,"

 

A droplet inhaled that is less than 5 microns will likely reach the lower respiratory track, fogging chemical sprayers, as some farmers use, produce a fog that is 100th that size, but it is not only about the lower track, a droplet over 5 microns will not reach the lungs as it will get stopped in the upper track, but the mouth and throat are still in you body, so just who does this guy think he is fooling?

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Kieran00001

[robertthesculptor]

Same exact "experts", who tell Thais that the blue light from your smart phone is dangerous but only from 30 minutes before bed time.... Where do they find these idiots. 

This will cause Thailand to be be banned from sales in the world market and only cause genetic and other problems here... But oh have more children....

Idiots