Questions About Qualifications

[Ijustwannateach]

Lkind,

Your query belongs here, as does the answer. If you read the past umpteen pages, you will discover that someone with your eminent qualifications (TEFL, presumably, plus diddly/squat as far as experience teaching or degree is concerned) is eligible to earn the grand salary of 15-25K a month, without legal paperwork, if you're lucky, and with paperwork, if you're very, very lucky (if the "old" rules still apply, which is no longer known). In fact, currently none of the rules are really known. It's who you know, not what you know or what your qualifications are. Unfortunately, it's a difficult time, politically and economically, to try to be getting to know people.

Without further education (i.e. a real degree) your opportunities for promotion will be more or less null and void; though if you're very lucky and things go back to the old rules you may have the chance for some "better" jobs at 40-45K in Bangkok. I'd recommend you stay outside Bangkok, though, for the best chance of being hired under the "old" rules.

With IT experience, your chances are better; but really they're better if you got hired from abroad on a full expat package. If you're really good enough to be working in the computer field, you should probably try it that way rather than wasting your time on a 25K job for 3 years just to get the chance to do interviews to earn substandard local wages in computing.

If I haven't already discouraged you, then you're probably insane enough to be happy here. Good luck!

"Steven"

[Northswede]

Hi, I'm a 43 y.o. man from sweden. Have completed a B. of medicin a year ago, but not worked in that area. Dont have any expirience in teaching but would like to work in that area in Thailand. Wonder what the chances are that I could get a job (hopefully with WP and non I-visa), without doing TEFL, so to say, to see what it's all about before investing money and time. Of course I would settle for lower payment during the year or so that I try the work out.

[Ijustwannateach]

You're not a native speaker, and as far as TEFLing is concerned that works against you. It also works against you in the EP programs, though if you are teaching a non-English subject it is less of a problem. It would help if you did get the TEFL (especially if you are going to be doing TEFL), or, of course, another teaching qualification.

I'm guessing you'll be working at the 30K benchmark for a few years, unless your spoken English is REEEEEALLLLLYYY good. And the visas/other paperwork will be harder now.

[ThaiItAgain]

I am a mature retired gent in his 60's. As yet, I have no real teaching experience although I have spent many years training and and developing sales personnel in the corporate world.

I have a B.com in Sales and marketing, also I am TESOL trained with qualifications in teaching EILTS,TOEIC, Adults, children and grammar. Presently I am half way through completing my Cert lll course with the same TESOL organization in Australia. I grew up and was educated in England UK so I am a Native English language speaker. I tell you all this because I will be arriving in Chiang Mai at the end of April and I would like to seriously explore the possibilities of taking up an English teaching position in Chiang Mai.

Can anyone tell me my chances of securing a position as a Teacher of English?

I welcome any suggestions, strategies and ideas.

ThaiItAgain

PS. I have read the other postings and answers on the subject of Qualifications and teaching in Thailand and the comments regarding teaching other segments i.e Maths or sciences; I have no formal training in teaching these subjects so I guess thats out.

[Ijustwannateach]

You could still be a TEFL King/Queen, TIA- since you have an actual degree with a TEFL, you'd probably be fine for up to 40K-45K after making a few connections here- that's as long as they're not going to be enforcing that ludicrous proposal to require an Ed. degree for TEFLing. But if they start enforcing that, we're all outta here anyway.

"S"

[PeaceBlondie]

But Ijustwannateach - I think he wants Chiang Mai. Maybe he'll get real lucky and earn 33K. Or 36K.

Loaded may have better advice.

Chiang Mai is a difficult place to get decent work, even if you're well qualified. Once you finally know the right people who can recommend you for the right job, you might even be lucky enough to teach legally in another couple of months. Of course, some agencies or schools may consider you 'too old' unless you prove you can still literally dance circles around them (I can, and do ).

I hope you have a pension, because you might start part time, and even some full time work for people with your documented credentials start at 25K.

If you can get a one-year visa from a friendly, honorary consulate in Australia (not a retirement visa), maybe you could get legal after 3 or 4 visa runs. I know somebody who made 12 (quarterly or less) and never was legal, back when it was easier to be legal.

[Ijustwannateach]

Oops, you're right, PB- was thinking Bangkok.

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay, I just checked out the biggest website that would have CMai jobs. One at 25 hours per week, 6 days a week, including teaching IELTS, prefer someone with both a teaching degree and with teaching experience, and all they promise is 25K. The only other job listed is tutoring, 'about 20K a month,' and you must work weekends.

Heck, I've known illegal tutors making almost 20K in their spare time, and Toptuan says some guy in Issan makes over 100K that way. But totally illegal.

But this is the lull time; teachers have gone on the long holiday. If true to fashion, they'll be back to their desk around May 10, thinking maybe they should start advertising for May 16. But this year, they ought to start in earnest, posting the job ads, already. Not in Chiang Mai, apparently. You have to know somebody who already knows somebody, and you.

[southerndog]

Hi, I have a BS and MS in Mathematics from an Amercian university, and 5 years of teaching at university level. I have no certification.

What options should be open to me?

Thank you,

Southerndog.

[Casanundra]

Hi, I have a BS and MS in Mathematics from an Amercian university, and 5 years of teaching at university level. I have no certification.

What options should be open to me?

Thank you,

Southerndog.

No certification, as in no certificates to support that you have a BS and an MS?

Without a certificate to back up your claims (which is how they will be treated) then you are limited to be here illegally as a teacher.

I presume you are staying here on a 1 year Non imm O or a tourist visa

Just curious, but any reason 'why' you cannot obtain those certificates?

[Ijustwannateach]

I *think* he means he has no formal certification (i.e. licensing) as a teacher, not that he doesn't have certificates for his degrees. If that's true, it means with his high-level degrees that he can probably get jobs at the better EP/MP programs, possibly making upwards of 50-60K or more eventually. Options at universities and in industry may also be possible, if he's commercially minded. The "true blue" international schools usually won't look at someone without Ed. after their names and a formal teaching license as well, unless they're desperate (and even then they'll hire you as a 2nd class "instructor").

Of course, if he doesn't have proof of his degrees, the limitations you point out are correct, Casa.

"S"

[ThaiItAgain]

But Ijustwannateach - I think he wants Chiang Mai. Maybe he'll get real lucky and earn 33K. Or 36K.

Loaded may have better advice.

Chiang Mai is a difficult place to get decent work, even if you're well qualified. Once you finally know the right people who can recommend you for the right job, you might even be lucky enough to teach legally in another couple of months. Of course, some agencies or schools may consider you 'too old' unless you prove you can still literally dance circles around them (I can, and do ).

I hope you have a pension, because you might start part time, and even some full time work for people with your documented credentials start at 25K.

If you can get a one-year visa from a friendly, honorary consulate in Australia (not a retirement visa), maybe you could get legal after 3 or 4 visa runs. I know somebody who made 12 (quarterly or less) and never was legal, back when it was easier to be legal.

'PeaceBlondie' Thanks for your comments!.

>If you can get a one-year visa from a friendly, honorary consulate in Australia (not a retirement visa), maybe you could get legal after 3 or 4 visa runs. I know somebody who made 12 (quarterly or less) and never was legal, back when it was easier to be legal.<

I have secured an Non Immigrant 'O' visa for 12 months from the Thai embassy in Brisbane; it means that each 90 days I must go out of Thailand and come back in for another 90 days. Have you any other thoughts on visas that could help me more than the 'O' visa?

>Loaded may have better advice.< Forgive my ignorance, is loaded an member on here?

>Once you finally know the right people who can recommend you for the right job, you might even be lucky enough to teach legally in another couple of months.< I do not know any of the teaching establishments as such but my fiancés family know principals and head teaching staff in some of the schools in Chiang Mai. however, if I am asked to teach subjects other than English then I am not trained for that.

>I hope you have a pension, because you might start part time, and even some full time work for people with your documented credentials start at 25K.< I currently enjoy a pension here in Australia. however, will the "O" visa allow me to work while I am there; even in a part time or full time private capacity?

>Of course, some agencies or schools may consider you 'too old' unless you prove you can still literally dance circles around them (I can, and do ).< PeaceBlondie! I would appreciate if you could expound on this comment please; I certainly would like to learn from your experiences at handling the so called "too old syndrome".

From your comments I assume that you are in a teaching position and that perhaps you are in your seasoned years; I would like to chat further with you if you would allow me to email you.

Regards

ThaiItAgain

[tonyevans330]

Im sure that this is an old topic, but I also know that the situation is always changing in Thailand so I would appreciate any advice here please.....

Im moving to Thailand this september to try teaching english for the first time...I am a recent graduate with plenty of confidence in talking to the masses and have a versitile and well organised approach...

I intend to do a weekend TESOL course in the UK to equip me with some basic structure and ideas about teaching english BUT I dont want to pay to do A TEFL course....

How much of a disadvantage would this put me at?

Will this restrict the type of teaching posts/schools that I can go for?

I am not sure of the age group I intend to teach yet, so I welcome good advice here regarding how a lack of TEFL might restrict my options

Thanks everyone

[DragonQuest]

yes you can get a job, but a tefl looks good, especially with experience, i have one, and can also get you a bit more pay, you just need to get your buns out here and start sniffing around to see what fits your needs.

and it wont put you at a great disadvantage but maby just a little bit, but the minimum is a B.A, at least in bkk, but upcountry anything might go,not sure cause i only worked for 1 week up-country and its definetly not for me, im a city boy. good luck

[Ijustwannateach]

TE: It restricts you pretty much to government schools, who can vouch for you without being as strict about qualifications as the private schools are becoming. As DQ says, you're most likely to get work out in the countryside with this kind of resume (only degree, no TEFL, no experience). Once you have the experience, the TEFL is not really required (usually they want TEFL "or equivalent") and you could "upgrade" to the city.

Of course, none of the rules are really hard and fast. Good luck. Read the entire "Questions About Qualifications" thread, with which I will merge this one.

[Jont76]

Hello All,

I have a Thai girlfriend who lives in Surat Thani, and I intend to move there permanently. I was wondering what the chances were of teaching in any discipline (ideally science) are. Does anyone have any ideas?

My qualifications are a BSc(Agriculture) Hons. and a certificate IV in laboratory techniques. I was thinking I could work at the local Rajhabat university. I'm very confused by the Thai MOE guidelines as to what is required legally (as is everyone I suppose).

Also, does marriage entitle you to be able to live in Thailand (supporting a son from my girlfriends former marriage)?

Thanks.

Jonathan 8)

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm about to run off for a while, and the other forum moderator might want to move this into the long "Qualifications" thread at the top of the forum.

Any degree is usually good enough to teach matayom (secondary) school. Some folks teach basic or intermediate English at some rajabats with only a bachelor's degree (anything's possible). If you could teach agricultural science, all the better (though I doubt rajabats have those courses in English).

Are you a native speaker of English, no visible tatoos or piercings, and able to breathe a mirror? Science and maths teachers are in great demand, at least in the big urban areas.

For your specific question about getting a visa to stay in Thailand to support a Thai wife, you might post a new question in ThaiVisa's forum for visas. Thanks, and welcome.

[Ijustwannateach]

Happy to oblige, PB! Just wanted to add, "^what he said!" and also recommend that you read this entire thread. It doesn't get less confusing with time.

[mbjben]

I would like to teach English in Thailand. I have a graduate degree in speech pathology. I am a certified speech therapist in the USA. I am also a certified teacher of the visually impaired. I hold a Bachelor's degree in Speech and Drama. I have been working as a speech therapist for 35 years. Will my college degrees and years of experience be sufficent to meet rthe requirements to teach English in Thailand? What kind of salary can I reasonably expect?

[Ijustwannateach]

As I've frequently said on this thread, your qualifications don't generally change the salary on offer for any particular teaching job; they only affect your likelihood of getting that job. That statement is true for most of the run-of-the-mill teaching jobs for TEFL, certainly, and with most if not all of the EP's (although some of the higher level EP/MPs do offer a modicum of higher salary if you have a relevant master's or doctorate). From the point of view of the school, they're not looking to hire and pay for the best foreign expert- they have a budget and they (generally, unfortunately) want to hire a basically competent white face for that.

So, for teaching English at the best qualified level (for TEFL), you're probably looking at 40-50K eventually (after you waste some time figuring out which schools you have to quit from).

However, you have a speciality niche- and you could play that to your advantage. There are many true-blue international schools here with Western-trained teachers and administration members, which may actually know what a speech-therapist is and why one is sometimes needed in a school (the Thais really don't have the luxury). You could work full-time at one of them, or part-time as a consultant at several and possibly pick up some private clients in your field on the way- and there can't be many of you here- I'd guess you could make quite an impressive salary if you could find schools with the interest. Part of this would be how you approached them and sold yourself. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

"S"

[smeagle]

Firstly i would like to apologise for not responding to my post, having problems with my computer switching itself off for no reason,anyway, about qualifications, basically have no degree. The only thing i have is 10 years experience teaching outdoor pursuits back home,got bored 5 years ago an wanted a change. I came to Thailand and have been teaching in a government school for 1 year then moved to a private school for 4 years. I went back home for reasons but returned coz my life is here.I have come with a Non Imm B multiple entry lasting well into next year .Any advise now you know a little about me.

[PeaceBlondie]

Firstly i would like to apologise for not responding to my post, having problems with my computer switching itself off for no reason,anyway, about qualifications, basically have no degree. The only thing i have is 10 years experience teaching outdoor pursuits back home,got bored 5 years ago an wanted a change. I came to Thailand and have been teaching in a government school for 1 year then moved to a private school for 4 years. I went back home for reasons but returned coz my life is here.I have come with a Non Imm B multiple entry lasting well into next year .Any advise now you know a little about me.

Gosh, smegle, after reading all of your posts and knowing a little about you, and about what's cooking outdoors, I'm confused. As recently as January 26, 2007, you were talking about a guy at your school here in Thailand, who was worried about getting in trouble as he left the country. Now you're back, no degree, etc. Why not return to that nice private school where you worked for four years? They could get you a new work permit, teacher's license, driver's license, maybe a year's pass to the zoo to see the beagles and the eagles. And the faculty, admin and students must know all about you, so I'd say, go for it. Good luck.

[smeagle]

Hi, PB. sorry for confusing everybody, cooking was a mate but now he is home,i went back for family reasons,but as quoted before my life is here in Thailand. Believe me if i could go back to the school i left then my problems are solved, unfortunately can't. Remember the trouble not that long ago, i was there. This is why i need to try and find new,but dont really want to shoot myself in the foot , hence looking for advise.

PS whats the beagle eagle

[mobiiart]

Hi, I just wanted to give another example to what's available here. I live about 2 hours north of Bangkok, and teach in a private school here. I make 25,000 bt a month, and have a 12 month contract. This is my first year with this school. I will make 30k next year. I also make anywhere from 5-12,000 extra a month during vacation time. I teach small 1-2 month classes in English, while the kids are on break. That is only an extra 20-30,000 bt a year, but it adds up.

I don't have a degree, but I do have a TEFL cert. from ITTT. They seemed to be most interested in that. But please understand, that I am married, and my wife makes about 26,000 bt a month also, so this average wage is fine for us.

Bangkok pays better, and the only real major expense difference is housing. Our house payment is about about 1/3 of what it costs to rent a house in BKK. But life in a small village is peaceful, and I am only a 2 hour drive from all the hooplah. Hope this helps.

[PeaceBlondie]

smeagle, I was just joke-rhyming about eagles and beagles.

Well, if you can't go back to the prior school, I guess what you have for qualifications is prior experience, teaching in Thailand, quite a bit of it. Some provinces like Bangkok would probably require a bachelor's degree. I forget if you have a TEFL cert, but once you've taught 5 years, I don't think a TEFL cert matters that much, since you've proven you can do the work.

As you know, smeagle, there is no hard-and-fast, engraved-in-stone law in Thailand. If you get lucky, you might even be legal. Oops, another word that rhymes with smeagle. It's a crazy world, where people with better qualifications than you have, don't get legal within three years. And this year is not like the ones that went before it. Good luck.

[smeagle]

Thanks guys for the info, if i have to move then it looks like i have to just like all the other moves i done in the past so another one won't matter. Just hoping the right position for me comes again, Cheers all.

[Ijustwannateach]

DRJONES asks:

I'm currently doing a CELTA course in the UK but would like to know whether I would still be able to find decent employment in Thailand if I should fail this course? I have a degree and 2 years teaching experience for NOVA (English conversation school)in Japan but, at the moment, i'm finding juggling a full time job and the demands of my CELTA course a little tough.

Do you guys think it would be possible to find employment in a private school in Thailand and re-take a CELTA/TEFL course while i'm there? Also, what kind of wages would I be looking at with/without the extra qualification? (per month).

Any advice would be most appreciated.

My response:

When I first started teaching TEFL, I didn't do a formal qualification but I got some training through my employer. After that plus many years of experience, there didn't seem to be a point to going back and getting the TEFL- my prior references and experience were recommendation enough, and no one who read my resume ever asked for a TEFL cert. That said, I had quite a few more years than you in TEFL and then teaching English in high schools and companies.

There are a number of TEFL companies in Thailand which claim to offer just the sort of deal you are asking about- i.e., training, certification, plus a job at the end or concurrently. Getting the best deal is, of course, dependent on how much shopping around you do. We don't make a specific recommendation with regard to this- you could check out our section sponsors, for a start, but do as much other research as you can.

As I've frequently said, extra qualifications do not change the pay for a job- they increase the likelihood you will get the job. Most jobs in Thailand are pre-budgeted and inflexible, and the administrators in charge rarely care about your competence (for them, competence is a matter of decreasing marginal value- sadly enough, the white face is the most important factor in many cases). If you read through this thread, or through job ads in general (I suggest the Ajarn listings for this) you will get an idea of opening salary offers. There are better jobs, but to get them you have to make contacts and pay dues for awhile.

As to whether anyone can get a legal job at all anymore- we don't know. Read all the threads in the first two pages of the Teacher's Subforum to get an idea of the chaos that has recently ensued. Both mods for this subsection have recommended that people who do not already have legal paperwork here STAY AWAY this year- it's simply not worth the hassle and uncertainty. But if anyone can get you a legal job, it should still be the agencies and TEFL-related contracts (and they pay for the privileged paperwork out of the money you earn), though whether those jobs will be worth the candle is another question.

But if after you read through all this material, you're still crazy enough to want to try it- at a guess, with your degree and experience and depending on luck (and whether you arrive two weeks from now to start job hunting), I'd say you could pretty quickly pick up a 30-40K/month job in Bangkok, and maybe be legal after 6 months to a year- which isn't great, but it's a better start than many would-be teachers get here.

"S"

[mbkudu]

I forget if you have a TEFL cert, but once you've taught 5 years, I don't think a TEFL cert matters that much, since you've proven you can do the work.

I used to believe that until I completed a good course. These courses can teach you only so much in a month, but they can show a teacher flaws in his or her own methods. Quite a few bad habits and flawed methods I had been using for years prior were pointed out to me by the instructors on the course. So I would say that a good one can help the inexperienced as well as the experienced teacher. As far as a qualification goes it's secondary to a degree, but that all depends on the job you're looking for. As many people know here, some places don't need to see anything.

Edited April 12, 2007 by mbkudu

[DRJONES]

Thanks for the information, much appreciated.

At the moment i'm in the thick of my CELTA and I'd just like to cover the bases in case I don't pass (hopefully I will). Anyway, your info has given me a lot of encouragement. Do you think it's best to try and secure a job before I leave or try to get one when I arrive in the country?

I currently plan to work in the UK until October, then travel to Australia for 3 months and then hopefully take up a post in Thailand in Mid-January. My girlfriend is half Thai but hasn't lived there for 15 years, so we're both a bit wary of settling down there and finding employment.

However, as I said, thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

[PeaceBlondie]

DRJONES,

If you arrive here next January, there will be few if any jobs open then, since the academic year ends in March and resumes in May.

You have very little chance of securing a (decent) job aforehand; they want to do a face-to-face interview in Thailand. You might do summer school work between the academic terms, or part time temporary language center work, until early or middle of May.

Our general advice is still: don't come. Don't come to teach in Thailand.

Thanks for the information, much appreciated.

At the moment i'm in the thick of my CELTA and I'd just like to cover the bases in case I don't pass (hopefully I will). Anyway, your info has given me a lot of encouragement. Do you think it's best to try and secure a job before I leave or try to get one when I arrive in the country?

I currently plan to work in the UK until October, then travel to Australia for 3 months and then hopefully take up a post in Thailand in Mid-January. My girlfriend is half Thai but hasn't lived there for 15 years, so we're both a bit wary of settling down there and finding employment.

However, as I said, thanks for the info. Much appreciated.