Swiss/Thai Children who fell from Bangkok flats: Swiss father is English teacher in Thailand and says he was denied access

[Get Real]

13 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Regarding the article in Thai, he doesn't have custody. Perhaps his name is not on their birth certificates? Who knows? 

Doesn´t matter if his name is on the birth certificate. That dies not make him the legal father to the children. Without legalizing yourself as father, you will never have a chance in hell to get custody of your Thai child/children.

[jenny2017]

2 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Doesn´t matter if his name is on the birth certificate. That dies not make him the legal father to the children. Without legalizing yourself as father, you will never have a chance in hell to get custody of your Thai child/children.

It does matter if your name is on birth certificates of some kids in Thailand, or not.

 

   We don't know why they separated, it's just another non functioning relationship here. 

 

    I feel very sorry for the kids who've got nothing to do with their parents' problems. And one had to die, what a sad way to go/. RIP. 

   

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Get Real said:

No, in Thailand that is just a note on a paper. Your name on the birth certificate does not give you legal rights as a father, and it will not make you the father of the child in a legal case.
Before, you had to go to court with either the child if old enough, or with the mother to get yourself legalized as a father according to the Thai family law. 
If the mother is refusing to do it, and you do not have access to your child or the child is not old enough to legalize you, then your other option is to get a dna test and go to court yourself and get it done.

From what I recall reading about the law , the Mother MUST agree that you are the Father , if she says in Court that you are not the Father , that will take preference over any DNA test results

[4evermaat]

There's an article before describing them as very poor that the mother has to work at night to support her kids.
 
   Nothing about financial support from daddy. Can you show a link, please? 

That's my point. Neither articles never pointed to anything definitive that the father was not providing support. We dont know but fragments of their relationship. Mainly:
1) they had kids together
2) they were separated afterwards
3) Father had limited access to his kids afterwards

A couple of TVF jurors made assumptions that there was no financial maintenance for the kids from the father.

Sent from my LDN-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Justice 1]

6 hours ago, Srikcir said:

"He told the cops he is at the center of a custody battle over his children."

Thai mother vs farang father. Until this dispute is settled, it's reasonable that the mother will retain full custody, especially since her parents can assist.

The mother and the grandmother are drug users. They are not capable of looking after these children. It is know that the grandmother physically abuses the children. The father has tried many times to get full custody of the children at one stage he hired a lawyer to help get custody but the lawyer was corrupt and stole the money. Why should this man be treated differently because he comes from outside Thailand. It is obvious that he is the better person to look after these children not a bunch of child abusers out of their heads on drugs which is their main priority not the children 

[MaeJoMTB]

8 hours ago, Borzandy said:

Because the father is farang and he was not allowed to see his kids. It's Thais laws.

Same all over the world, white men hardly ever get to see their kids after separation.

It's probably easier to see your kids in Thailand than it is in the west.

[Get Real]

54 minutes ago, sanemax said:

From what I recall reading about the law , the Mother MUST agree that you are the Father , if she says in Court that you are not the Father , that will take preference over any DNA test results

Not correct at all.

[Justice 1]

8 hours ago, hansnl said:

Amen.

So it's better to see children die at the hands of child abusers and drug addicts than to a father that has tried and was robbed by a corrupt lawyer to get custody of the children that he so loves and is still fighting to gain rightful custody of the children to save them from such horrible crimes. Wake up to the obvious truth please 

[Knocker33]

7 hours ago, Get Real said:

It´s not the Thai law at all. Please read the good book, Sir!

 

The father made two misstakes if he is not allowed to see his children:

 

1. He is not registrered as the legal father of the children. Name on birth certificate is not valid.

 

2. He did not care about fighting for his right to see and even have the children staying with him.

 

Of course, there can be another reason. In that case there is something negative about the father. Like abuse, anger or something underlying we are not aware of yet.

 

 

Don't know what good book you are on about but a friend of mine has has been fighting just for visits to his son for three years now.  He could only see him with the ex there for a couple hours a week After three years and thousands in lawyers fees he can have him overnight but not leave the province. No history of abuse pays for the boy and his son was born in the UK.  But the Thai courts have thrown every obstacle they can find in his way. May be Thai law . But how many people believe in the law here

[Justice 1]

41 minutes ago, 4evermaat said:

That's my point. Neither articles never pointed to anything definitive that the father was not providing support. We dont know but fragments of their relationship. Mainly:
1) they had kids together
2) they were separated afterwards
3) Father had limited access to his kids afterwards

A couple of TVF jurors made assumptions that there was no financial maintenance for the kids from the father.

Sent from my LDN-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The father did pay towards maintenance for the children. The mother and the grandmother are drug users and liars as well as there are accounts from the children of extreme physical abuse by the grandmother. The father has full custody of the children now even though in a very sad case far too late. All because he is a Farang! ?

[Megasin1]

1 minute ago, Justice 1 said:

The father did pay towards maintenance for the children. The mother and the grandmother are drug users and liars as well as there are accounts from the children of extreme physical abuse by the grandmother. The father has full custody of the children now even though in a very sad case far too late. All because he is a Farang! ?

seriously, you are informed on the case ? 

this is really sad, but hopefully their father will care for the remaining kids better than the mother did.

[Justice 1]

8 hours ago, hansnl said:

Amen.

 

7 hours ago, robertthesculptor said:

Sad that arrogance by officials put these children at risk. They would have been happy living with dad who had a job and cared about and for them. Smells like discrimination and xenophobia....

I totally agree with what you have stated. The father was doing everything that he could for the children. While a lot has to be said about the mother and the grandmother. Reports of drug abuse and report from the children of extreme physical abuse by the grandmother. Very sad one sided situation! ?

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Not correct at all.

I do believe that it is correct .

Unmarried fathers have no parental rights in Thailand and to get any rights in Court, the mother must be in agreement , even with DNA proof , if the mother says no, thats it, its no 

[HHTel]

You are partly correct, GetReal, but not 100 per cent.

 

Quote

According to Section 1547 of Thai CCC, if the father submits an application for legitimation of a child in Thailand with a local district office, the mother and the child must express their consent to the application. However, if such consent is not given by the mother and the child within 60 days after the said filing, or the mother or child raises an objection that the applicant is not the father of the child, the father has to file the petition of legitimation of the child to the applicable court.

 

[Megasin1]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

I do believe that it is correct .

Unmarried fathers have no parental rights in Thailand and to get any rights in Court, the mother must be in agreement , even with DNA proof , if the mother says no, thats it, its no 

This would certainly reflect how it was in the past in other countries, even UK. It has taken a long time for father's to obtain any rights over their kids.

I was in the lucky position when fighting for my kids that one of them was 12 and the family courts had moved on a lot in that the welfare of the kids come first and foremost above those of their parents.

In UK a child over 12 can choose their main carer, where they wish to reside and they won't split up siblings unless they really have to.

I am sure that Thailand will get there eventually, however with my Thai child I knew i couldn't win in court so didn't even try. First action, starve her of money, she will eventually run out. Only pay support money directly to establishments like the school. Ensure everyone understands clearly that they can eat as much as they want at your house (yes, the ex too!). Then say you will help with this and that but you want the kids on the weekend. Do not do this until she has realised how much she needs the money. Then ensure that you work hard with the kids when you have them so they want to come back. Then run them to school, pick them up from school whenever you can and always make this fun and dinner before returning them home. You will get there eventually and probably quicker than any court system...

[HHTel]

I disagree with 'Thailand will catch up'.  The courts here put much more emphasis on the child's welfare than back home in the UK.  The judge will always come down on what is best for the children.

 

I won full custody of my two in the UK when they were 5 and 7.  That was before the later rule of 'Order of Residence' came about.  It was a long hard battle which I was told at the outset that I had a 5 per cent chance of winning.

[dunroaming]

10 hours ago, Borzandy said:

Because the father is farang and he was not allowed to see his kids. It's Thais laws.

Not strictly true.  I know a few farangs who are divorced from their Thai wives and have custody of their kids.  A good lawyer and a stack of brown envelopes help though.  It also depends on just how violent and aggressive the mother gets.  In the cases I know there was certainly blood on the ground.

[Wake Up]

On 5/3/2018 at 10:11 AM, Get Real said:

It´s not the Thai law at all. Please read the good book, Sir!

 

The father made two misstakes if he is not allowed to see his children:

 

1. He is not registrered as the legal father of the children. Name on birth certificate is not valid.

 

2. He did not care about fighting for his right to see and even have the children staying with him.

 

Of course, there can be another reason. In that case there is something negative about the father. Like abuse, anger or something underlying we are not aware of yet.

 

 

Spoken from the words of a man who has never fought for custody. Thankfully you know nothing. 

[hanuman2543]

On 3.5.2018 at 4:02 AM, Borzandy said:

Because the father is farang and he was not allowed to see his kids. It's Thais laws.

It isn't Thai law.  The law says very clear shared custody if married. He was denied access to his children because the other party wanted to apply "extra pressure ".

[jenny2017]

33 minutes ago, hanuman2543 said:

It isn't Thai law.  The law says very clear shared custody if married. He was denied access to his children because the other party wanted to apply "extra pressure ".

The father is an English teacher and lives in Bangkok, in a different district than his children. Because the media reported that the family lives in poverty, the Swiss went to Hua Mark police station. There he told the officials about his custody battle over his children. He had separated from his Thai wife and she had forbidden him to see the girls and boys.

 

  From a German source: http://der-farang.com/de/pages/schweizer-vater-hat-keinen-zugang-zu-den-kindern

[hanuman2543]

If the father has sole custody then denying him access and custody is a criminal offence.  If the father had been a middle class Thai this would have never  happened.The involved authorities should be ashamed that they let this tragedy happen. In another thread is written that the mother is/ was using yaba and was even arrested for this. But l am quite sure that now the involved agencies will not miss the chance for a photo op with the devasteted father.

Hypocrites

Edited May 4, 2018 by hanuman2543

[sanemax]

On 5/3/2018 at 10:11 AM, Get Real said:

It´s not the Thai law at all. Please read the good book, Sir!

The father made two misstakes if he is not allowed to see his children:

1. He is not registrered as the legal father of the children. Name on birth certificate is not valid.

2. He did not care about fighting for his right to see and even have the children staying with him.

Of course, there can be another reason. In that case there is something negative about the father. Like abuse, anger or something underlying we are not aware of yet.

 

How can you complain about the media stating that she worked nights , as you feel that this may cause some people to come to the wrong conclusion , then you go on to make a wild speculation about the father being abusive , anger issues or something else ?

   You also go on to speculate about himself not being registered as the father and that he didnt care to make a Court case to get his Children back , the reality is that he was registered as the childrens fathers and he also took legal action and got a Court ruling in his favour

[Get Real]

28 minutes ago, sanemax said:

How can you complain about the media stating that she worked nights , as you feel that this may cause some people to come to the wrong conclusion , then you go on to make a wild speculation about the father being abusive , anger issues or something else ?

   You also go on to speculate about himself not being registered as the father and that he didnt care to make a Court case to get his Children back , the reality is that he was registered as the childrens fathers and he also took legal action and got a Court ruling in his favour

Perfect! 

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, Wake Up said:

Spoken from the words of a man who has never fought for custody. Thankfully you know nothing. 

And how do you know that? Do you know me?

[rhodie]

23 hours ago, Get Real said:

Nope! That´s not right. I f you have all the papers that makes you a legalized father, not only your namne on the birth certificate, then you have the right to demand time with your child or children according to the Thai familiy court. Just been in phone with them, and according to them you go there with your papers and tell them you want to see your children. After that they summon the mother and you for a meeting. At that meeting a timetable should be drawn up. If an agreement can not be made, the court will rule a decision.

If the mother after that choose to disobey the court order, you can go further to seek full custody, due to that she is breaking the family law.

You forget that this is Thailand. I have seen cases where as you say, the court orders things, but in reality they are difficult to enforce. Police are very reluctant to get involved and you are very lucky if they take your side.

[HHTel]

Is being a cynic one of the qualifications to being a member of this forum.  I have fought for custody in the UK (was granted full custody) and been to court here for divorce and custody.  'Won' in both cases.  I found it much easier in Thailand than the UK.  What is best for the children appears paramount when in front of the judge.

[Wake Up]

1 hour ago, Get Real said:

And how do you know that? Do you know me?

Your spoken words are not the words of a man that has been in court battles over kids or has any real sense of the situation. 

[MaeJoMTB]

2 hours ago, rhodie said:

You forget that this is Thailand. I have seen cases where as you say, the court orders things, but in reality they are difficult to enforce. Police are very reluctant to get involved and you are very lucky if they take your side.

Was no different in the UK.

I would get a court order to see them (around 5,000gbp), she would ignore it (zero cost), SS would overturn it after she made another complaint.

After 3x round, I gave up.

No point in blaming Thailand, women get the 'pussy pass' by the law in most countries.

I'm betting the death of one child will change nothing for the guy. I would like to have hope for him, but see none.

If you try to see your kids, you're a monster, if you walk away from them, you're a monster.

 

 

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, Wake Up said:

Your spoken words are not the words of a man that has been in court battles over kids or has any real sense of the situation. 

What can I say? You are wrong? I guess you will not take that into consideration. I have been there, I have done that and won.

I guess you didn´t, and that´s why you are so lemonized. You know, like a sour apple!

[Get Real]

36 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Was no different in the UK.

I would get a court order to see them (around 5,000gbp), she would ignore it (zero cost), SS would overturn it after she made another complaint.

After 3x round, I gave up.

No point in blaming Thailand, women get the 'pussy pass' by the law in most countries.

I'm betting the death of one child will change nothing for the guy. I would like to have hope for him, but see none.

If you try to see your kids, you're a monster, if you walk away from them, you're a monster.

 

 

Wow! You are really into monsters.