Trump back in step with NRA after doubts over Parkland shooting

[farcanell]

20 minutes ago, underlordcthulhu said:

I need to sleep now. Most of what you posted is just silly.

I'll address your bit about children though. It's hard to imagine something more evil than leaving the protection of vulnerable children up to the state and trying to strip those rights from parents and community. 

Not happening on my watch.

Great idea... sleep on it.... because as yet, no arguments you make hold up to interrogation, making them moot. You can’t just say stuff that’s stupid, and not expect a reaction

 

and... when you arise, bright eyed and bushy tailed, google the definition of inalienable, and try to explain how gun ownership is an inalienable right (either within or without a political setting)

 

also... not everyone believes that protection of vulnerable children needs to be done by the use of firearms.... it can be, but in a sane world, this should be a last resort, not a first resort

 

and... nobody is suggesting that the care of vulnerable children should be left up to the government, who are clearly failing in this respect, according to US children.... even though a large part of its purpose is to protect its society.

 

you might want to put down your rifles monthly catalogue, and perhaps pick up something less biased to read.... for balance... and more importantly... understanding

Edited May 6, 2018 by farcanell

[PatOngo]

7 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Ok, you're in charge. What are you gonna do specifically to stop it?

Nothing, I'm just going to watch from a distance!

[underlordcthulhu]

15 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Great idea... sleep on it.... because as yet, no arguments you make hold up to interrogation, making them moot. You can’t just say stuff that’s stupid, and not expect a reaction

 

and... when you arise, bright eyed and bushy tailed, google the definition of inalienable, and try to explain how gun ownership is an inalienable right (either within or without a political setting)

I'm up, sunshine.

We have inalienable rights given by God PROTECTED by the state. 

Now maybe you don't believe that but many of us do. And that's why we fight so hard to keep people like you from leaving our children and loved ones defenseless because when seconds count the cops are.. well you know how that ends.

My family and community comes first.

And never forget, hundreds of years later after all the pushback against our rights, we still have gun rights because our will is stronger than yours. 

Night night.

[heybruce]

14 minutes ago, underlordcthulhu said:

I'm up, sunshine.

We have inalienable rights given by God PROTECTED by the state. 

Now maybe you don't believe that but many of us do. And that's why we fight so hard to keep people like you from leaving our children and loved ones defenseless because when seconds count the cops are.. well you know how that ends.

My family and community comes first.

And never forget, hundreds of years later after all the pushback against our rights, we still have gun rights because our will is stronger than yours. 

Night night.

In other words, logic and evidence don't apply; it's a god thing.

[farcanell]

39 minutes ago, underlordcthulhu said:

I'm up, sunshine.

We have inalienable rights given by God PROTECTED by the state. 

Now maybe you don't believe that but many of us do. And that's why we fight so hard to keep people like you from leaving our children and loved ones defenseless because when seconds count the cops are.. well you know how that ends.

My family and community comes first.

And never forget, hundreds of years later after all the pushback against our rights, we still have gun rights because our will is stronger than yours. 

Night night.

Wow... dude... you should have slept on it.

 

when did god (arguably a figment of your imagination, but that’s another story of ignorance) give people the right to carry firearms?

 

Was it when he allowed the Chinese to discover gunpowder and invent projectile weopons?

 

or was it when he allowed Europeans to gain the knowledge of explosives (intellectual theft from the chinese.. lol) and further refine gunpowder weopons of war

 

or was it when he developed mass production and quality control, to make ownership available to more and more people

 

Yer... ok... I don’t believe that rubbish, but may your dog bless you if you do

 

now... stepping away from superstition for a minute .... people like me leaving our children undefended... well ... last year 17 australian children were killed... so... undefended by privately owned guns doesn’t mean undefended, but rather, better defended, if you really want to discuss that.. and (minute up... back to god) wouldn't your god prefer not to need to defend your children.... your argument seems to be that as god has given others the right to harm your children, he’s therefore given you the right to own guns.... (mmmm... that’s to stupid to be a correct assumption of your posting... or is it?)

 

And... hundreds of years later... what? The NRA started pushing back in 1934.... once again, let me suggest that you read something other than NRA produced indoctrination material

 

and... as you are now going to sleep,( if your conscience allows,) consider this over your morning Folgers,.... you still have gun rights because your willingness to legally or illegally shoot stuff up, (bottles or babies), is what is stronger than ours

 

edit.... your gun rights are protected by the NRA “bribing” politicians, with money and votes.

Edited May 6, 2018 by farcanell

[Becker]

47 minutes ago, underlordcthulhu said:

I'm up, sunshine.

We have inalienable rights given by God PROTECTED by the state. 

 

You should have just stopped right there. No need to read any more of what you're posting. You have inalienable rights given to you by an invisible man in the sky?? 

Get some sleep and don't forget your meds.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Becker

[lannarebirth]

33 minutes ago, heybruce said:

In other words, logic and evidence don't apply; it's a god thing.

It is not a God thing it is a philosophical thing.

 

http://www.nlnrac.org/earlymodern/locke

[UncleTouchyFingers]

 

6 minutes ago, Becker said:

You have inalienable rights given to you by an invisible man in the sky??

 

Thats the history of it all. You may think its stupid but the rights aren't "given" by the state, and they arent a privilege. 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

23 minutes ago, farcanell said:

your gun rights are protected by the NRA “bribing” politicians, with money and votes.

 

This is false. 

[Slip]

24 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Wow... dude... you should have slept on it.

 

when did god (arguably a figment of your imagination, but that’s another story of ignorance) give people the right to carry firearms?

 

Was it when he allowed the Chinese to discover gunpowder and invent projectile weopons?

 

or was it when he allowed Europeans to gain the knowledge of explosives (intellectual theft from the chinese.. lol) and further refine gunpowder weopons of war

 

or was it when he developed mass production and quality control, to make ownership available to more and more people

 

Yer... ok... I don’t believe that rubbish, but may your dog bless you if you do

 

now... stepping away from superstition for a minute .... people like me leaving our children undefended... well ... last year 17 australian children were killed... so... undefended by privately owned guns doesn’t mean undefended, but rather, better defended, if you really want to discuss that.. and (minute up... back to god) wouldn't your god prefer not to need to defend your children.... your argument seems to be that as god has given others the right to harm your children, he’s therefore given you the right to own guns.... (mmmm... that’s to stupid to be a correct assumption of your posting... or is it?)

 

And... hundreds of years later... what? The NRA started pushing back in 1934.... once again, let me suggest that you read something other than NRA produced indoctrination material

 

and... as you are now going to sleep,( if your conscience allows,) consider this over your morning Folgers,.... you still have gun rights because your willingness to legally or illegally shoot stuff up, (bottles or babies), is what is stronger than ours

 

edit.... your gun rights are protected by the NRA “bribing” politicians, with money and votes.

Putin's money at that.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

I'm a gun owner, I would have no problem registering my weapons and going through training and licensing.

 

What about the people that cant afford your expensive training and licensing? 

 

Do the rights not apply to them?

[UncleTouchyFingers]

2 minutes ago, Slip said:

Putin's money at that.

 

Well it only took 7 pages before we got the Russians into it. 

[Slip]

Just now, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

What about the people that cant afford your expensive training and licensing? 

 

Do the rights not apply to them?

How ridiculous.  Would you allow people who can't afford 'expensive' training and licensing to drive a car regardless?

[UncleTouchyFingers]

Just now, Slip said:

How ridiculous.  Would you allow people who can't afford 'expensive' training and licensing to drive a car regardless?

 

Are cars protected by the constitution? 

[heybruce]

11 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

It is not a God thing it is a philosophical thing.

 

http://www.nlnrac.org/earlymodern/locke

I was responding to uderlordc....'s post in which he stated:  " We have inalienable rights given by God PROTECTED by the state."  However you maintain that it is in accordance with the philosophy of John Locke, which is (from your link);  "Thomas Hobbes created a new approach when he based morality not on duty but on right, each individual’s right to preserve himself, to pursue his own good—essentially, to do as he wishes."

 

Funny how so many of the gun rights people are against gay rights, legalized marijuana, free movement of people, and other rights that seem to be in keeping with Locke's philosophy.  But I suppose philosophy, like religion, is an a-la-cart thing, where you pick the parts you like and ignore the rest.

[Becker]

14 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

 

Thats the history of it all. You may think its stupid but the rights aren't "given" by the state, and they arent a privilege. 

Thats the history of it all? What does that even mean???

"You may think its stupid but the rights aren't "given" by the state, and they arent a privilege."

I do think it's stupid to believe an invisible being has given people the right to own a gun. No, scratch that - I think people who actually believe that have lost touch with reality and should be considered a danger to society.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Becker

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

What about the people that cant afford your expensive training and licensing? 

 

Do the rights not apply to them?

 What about the people who cannot afford to buy a gun? 

 

Are you suggesting that in order to protect their rights the state should give them a gun for free? 'Cos that's where your 'logic' leads to!

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

What about the people that cant afford your expensive training and licensing? 

 

Do the rights not apply to them?

No.  If you can't afford the training to use a weapon properly, you can't afford a weapon.

 

Though I think people who can afford an expensive AR-15 can find the money for a gun safety course.  Many police departments offer them for free.

[farcanell]

29 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

It is not a God thing it is a philosophical thing.

 

http://www.nlnrac.org/earlymodern/locke

Great link ?

[lannarebirth]

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I was responding to uderlordc....'s post in which he stated:  " We have inalienable rights given by God PROTECTED by the state."  However you maintain that it is in accordance with the philosophy of John Locke, which is (from your link);  "Thomas Hobbes created a new approach when he based morality not on duty but on right, each individual’s right to preserve himself, to pursue his own good—essentially, to do as he wishes."

 

Funny how so many of the gun rights people are against gay rights, legalized marijuana, free movement of people, and other rights that seem to be in keeping with Locke's philosophy.  But I suppose philosophy, like religion, is an a-la-cart thing, where you pick the parts you like and ignore the rest.

 

I couldn't say. If it were up to me I'd ban handguns but I'm aware of the hurdles that are in place to doing that. You can't just wish it were so. You have to understand the underpinnings of the law that allows for that and seek a change through the constitutionally mandated process. People's feelings aren't going to get the job done.

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

<snip>

People's feelings aren't going to get the job done.

 What you say is in essence true.

 

However, you have to remember that politicians do not do what is right, they do what they believe is popular. 

 

If enough Americans lobby for proper gun control, say they will vote for whoever will deliver it and then actually do that, then it will happen. Not today, not tomorrow, but happen it will.

 

But if the silent majority remain silent then the status quo will remain.

[farcanell]

16 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Are cars protected by the constitution? 

Are guns protected by the constitution?

 

if so, where.... because it’s not protected by an amendment, which can be changed by a majority of like minded politicians, as has been done to  the 18th.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

16 minutes ago, heybruce said:

No.  If you can't afford the training to use a weapon properly, you can't afford a weapon.

 

Though I think people who can afford an expensive AR-15 can find the money for a gun safety course.  Many police departments offer them for free.

 

Well hey, at least your honest in your racism considering that you would be disproportionately effecting people of color. 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

10 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

I couldn't say. If it were up to me I'd ban handguns but I'm aware of the hurdles that are in place to doing that. You can't just wish it were so. You have to understand the underpinnings of the law that allows for that and seek a change through the constitutionally mandated process. People's feelings aren't going to get the job done.

 

Best post so far in this thread. You want to control guns but understand and acknowledge the law as well as the constitutional underpinnings. 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

5 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Are guns protected by the constitution?

 

if so, where.... because it’s not protected by an amendment, which can be changed by a majority of like minded politicians, as has been done to  the 18th.

 

Then change the amendment. Because guns are literally protected by the second amendment, and backed up by supreme court rulings. 

 

But politicians cant do that because they will never have a supermajority of votes to do so. And thats not the NRA's fault no matter how much you want it to be. 

[farcanell]

42 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

 

Thats the history of it all. You may think its stupid but the rights aren't "given" by the state, and they arent a privilege. 

If government restrictions ( like a gun licence) apply, then owning guns is a privilege for those that qualify, afforded by the society they live in ( granted as a right by the state)

[lannarebirth]

7 minutes ago, farcanell said:

If government restrictions ( like a gun licence) apply, then owning guns is a privilege for those that qualify, afforded by the society they live in ( granted as a right by the state)

 

Many things in America that were free to all people have become privileges. Many local parks,  hiking trails, now have user fees attached to them. The well to do are excluding poorer segments of society from public spaces all across America.

[farcanell]

28 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Then change the amendment. Because guns are literally protected by the second amendment, and backed up by supreme court rulings. 

 

But politicians cant do that because they will never have a supermajority of votes to do so. And thats not the NRA's fault no matter how much you want it to be. 

Lol... progress... so you agree that the second amendment can be changed stripping the people of any rights to bear arms... 

 

moving on.... your in complete denial about the influence of the most powerful lobby group on the planet. Lol... just consider that term... the most powerful lobby group.

 

edit... wow... the second does not literally protect general gun ownership, it stipulates conditions and references the purpose of protecting a free state... and... the Supreme Court does not back it up, but acknowledges limitations and the need for regulation

 

are you American?

Edited May 6, 2018 by farcanell

[farcanell]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Many things in America that were free to all people have become privileges. Many local parks,  hiking trails, now have user fees attached to them. The well to do are excluding poorer segments of society from public spaces all across America.

That’s why you need responsible government (of the people, for the people)

[lannarebirth]

10 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Lol... progress... so you agree that the second amendment can be changed stripping the people of any rights to bear arms... 

 

moving on.... your in complete denial about the influence of the most powerful lobby group on the planet. Lol... just consider that term... the most powerful lobby group.

I wouldn't go that far. Labor unions probably more powerful. AIPAC probably more powerful. Defense contractors, Bank Lobby, Pharma Lobby, Energy Lobby. A lot of fragrant grease being applied.