France says Iran deal 'not dead', Macron to contact Rouhani

[riclag]

28 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Yes they could be perceived that way. But Pakistan hasn’t got hatred anywhere near to the extent Iran has with Israel or the US . And on a government level does not have an Islamic supreme leader calling the shots.  In my humble opinion I think Iran wouldn’t think twice on the tactical nuke option against Israel if conflict came to a head or even Saudi Arabia.  But we can all surely agree than Iran having a nuclear option is bloody frightening.   

Exactly, a recent comment just justified how radical they are and have been  "So why would Iran start a war, when its mortal enemies (the USA and Israel) both have nukes as well"?Perhaps if they were perceived to have a diplomatic approach like France,they might of had history on its side going forward,but...

[khunken]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

Iran just proved how irresponsible and untrustworthy they are today after PT rejected the deal ,they sent rockets to Israel .Besides we are sick of the threats,"Death to America" from the Ayatollahs .

Who's we? Speaking for myself I'm sick of the constant threats & bombings from Israel to Syria so it's no wonder that a response is coming out of Syria towards the stolen Golan Heights. The aggressor is Israel just as it kills Palestinians for Zionist fun.

[attrayant]

Just now, live. News Conference by Pelosi&Co. Aaaand they do it again. Only criticize.

It’s not just Pelosi. Conservative commentator George Will criticized Pence, dubbing him the worst person in government:


The oleaginous Mike Pence, with his talent for toadyism and appetite for obsequiousness, could, Trump knew, become America’s most repulsive public figure.
— George Will, The Washington Post, 9 May 2018

(Oleaginous: oily, excessively ingratiating.)

This was after Pence did his Spiro Agnew impersonation, telling reporters that it’s none of anyone’s business if outside interests want to buy access to the president.

[riclag]

7 minutes ago, khunken said:

Who's we? Speaking for myself I'm sick of the constant threats & bombings from Israel to Syria so it's no wonder that a response is coming out of Syria towards the stolen Golan Heights. The aggressor is Israel just as it kills Palestinians for Zionist fun.

the gullible Trump followers who can't understand the stupidity of his action on this agreement.Us gullibles don't care about your cursing of Zionist Palestinian  propaganda. We don't want to be in the deal or have the Ayatollahs having death to jews and Americans on their rockets

Edited May 10, 2018 by riclag

[khunken]

1 minute ago, riclag said:

the gullible Trump followers who can't understand the stupidity of his action on this agreement.

So you're the gullible Trump followers' spokesperson. Who appointed you?

Well I'm glad you agree his withdrawal was stupid.

[riclag]

7 minutes ago, khunken said:

So you're the gullible Trump followers' spokesperson. Who appointed you?

Well I'm glad you agree his withdrawal was stupid.

just sayin what you said.we might be stupid and dumb .but fool me once shame on us ,fool me twice shame on you.Iran's new leaf shining through.

Edited May 10, 2018 by riclag

[alocacoc]

3 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

It’s not just Pelosi. Conservative commentator George Will criticized Pence, dubbing him the worst person in government:


The oleaginous Mike Pence, with his talent for toadyism and appetite for obsequiousness, could, Trump knew, become America’s most repulsive public figure.
— George Will, The Washington Post, 9 May 2018

(Oleaginous: oily, excessively ingratiating.)

This was after Pence did his Spiro Agnew impersonation, telling reporters that it’s none of anyone’s business if outside interests want to buy access to the president.

Not to compare.

 

1. Will is an journalist and not the leadership of the opposition.

 

2. There is nothing wrong with criticizing, as long it's constructive. They don't do themselves a favor with taht behavior. They are not even rudimentary innovative. They consistently against every step GOP does. Not one democrat voted for the tax reform.

 

All that and much more will backfire at midterm elections. But no problem, just blame Russian bots.

 

 

[riclag]

I think Iran better go explain themselves to France,Uk and Germany! And apologize for acting like  they have in response to America leaving what PT considers a bad deal . Is this how they act when they don't want to renegotiate ,by wallowing in the past. Go show America wrong prove it through diplomacy,instead of making death threats and threatening to enrich Uranium   

[khunken]

14 minutes ago, riclag said:

just sayin what you said.we might be stupid and dumb .but fool me once shame on us ,fool me twice shame on you.

 

14 minutes ago, riclag said:

just sayin what you said.we might be stupid and dumb .but fool me once shame on us ,fool me twice shame on you.

I'm not trying to fool you, only trying to get you - and some others of a similar mentality - to understand that the agreement that Trump broke has no positive outcome as a result of his paranoia about anything Obama did. If the other signatories continue with the agreement then, once again,  Trump is pissing off his allies and sending a message to NK that the US can't be trusted to keep to an agreement. If the other parties withdraw Iran will ramp up it's nuclear capabilities and become another NK which not many would think is sensible.

Edited May 10, 2018 by khunken

[riclag]

1 minute ago, khunken said:

 

I'm not trying to fool you, only trying to get you - and some others of a similar mentality - that the agreement that Trump broke has no positive outcome as a result of his paranoia about anything Obama did. If the other signatories continue with the agreement then, once again,  Trump is pissing off his allies and sending a message to NK that the US can't be trusted to keep to an agreement. If the other parties withdraw Iran will ramp up it's nuclear capabilities and become another NK which not many would think is sensible.

I think with NK it will be a TREATY not a deal. Do you know the difference?

[attrayant]

Not to compare.
 
1. Will is an journalist and not the leadership of the opposition.

Why does that matter? Will is more popular and influential than Pelosi. We shouldn’t be surprised to see the opposition to criticize, but when serious, stinging criticism comes from within the party, that’s a big problem.

[farcanell]

13 minutes ago, riclag said:

I think Iran better go explain themselves to France,Uk and Germany! And apologize for acting like  they have in response to America leaving what PT considers a bad deal . Is this how they act when they don't want to renegotiate ,by wallowing in the past. Go show America wrong prove it through diplomacy,instead of making death threats and threatening to enrich Uranium   

I thought most every one agreed that Iran was proving it thru diplomacy.... apparently only trumptopia sees things different, which is why the other pact parties are now desperately trying to salvage the remnants from another destabilizing act by the chief chump.

 

Todays actions are a reaction to trumps action... cause and effect. If trump had acted differently, this would not have happened... however... it did, and therefore trump needs to own it.

 

Non pact countries also have vested interests, which can be damaging to their economies... right now the Australian governments is advising Australian companies to seek legal advice to to implications revolving around secondary sanctions.

 

so really... it’s america that is not seeking diplomatic solutions, but rather, stamping its feet like a child, and giving scant regard to formerly staunch allies

 

hell... yesterday the tyrant dictator of turkey was appearing more statesman like than potus... and that’s scary.

[khunken]

7 minutes ago, riclag said:

I think with NK it will be a TREATY not a deal. Do you know the difference?

The deal with Iran has been termed a deal, a pact, an agreement etc. What gets agreed with NK is very much unknown at this stage. You might remember that a previous deal (or whatever) between the US and NK was broken by both sides during Dubya's time. Neither side keeps to UN resolutions.

[alocacoc]

20 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Why does that matter? Will is more popular and influential than Pelosi. We shouldn’t be surprised to see the opposition to criticize, but when serious, stinging criticism comes from within the party, that’s a big problem.

serious, stinging criticism? Actually he's insulting the vice president.

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, khunken said:

Who's we? Speaking for myself I'm sick of the constant threats & bombings from Israel to Syria so it's no wonder that a response is coming out of Syria towards the stolen Golan Heights. The aggressor is Israel just as it kills Palestinians for Zionist fun.

Legal occupation, (or illegal if you prefer) of the golans and other territories by Israel is a different topic..... arguable by the fact that these were originally Jewish lands, but that they were stolen by the newly created Muslim caliphates during the mid seventh century, after a millennia or more of Jewish occupation following the conquest of the Cannonite lands by Joshua, (Abraham’s successor ?).... and as there are no cannonites left to return the lands too, they are more Jewish than Syrian.

 

so that prickly pear is probably best discussed seperately from this thread, as it will only confuse the issue... to wit, trumps arguably irresponsible performance on the international stage, with regards a sovereign nation that has the will and capacity to build a bomb, in retaliation to trumps lack of diplomacy.

 

next he will probably screw the tentative peace process with NK, who might very well retaliate by jumping in bed with Iran.... and I wouldn’t blame them.

[riclag]

36 minutes ago, farcanell said:

I thought most every one agreed that Iran was proving it thru diplomacy.... apparently only trumptopia sees things different, which is why the other pact parties are now desperately trying to salvage the remnants from another destabilizing act by the chief chump.

 

Todays actions are a reaction to trumps action... cause and effect. If trump had acted differently, this would not have happened... however... it did, and therefore trump needs to own it.

 

Non pact countries also have vested interests, which can be damaging to their economies... right now the Australian governments is advising Australian companies to seek legal advice to to implications revolving around secondary sanctions.

 

so really... it’s america that is not seeking diplomatic solutions, but rather, stamping its feet like a child, and giving scant regard to formerly staunch allies

 

hell... yesterday the tyrant dictator of turkey was appearing more statesman like than potus... and that’s scary.

We tried diplomacy!The current administration didn't like being threaten "Death to America" 

[riclag]

Many good people in those countries that want to deal with Iran ,France ,Uk,Germany.Best to co op with them. Should be good until Iran starts enriching and threatening

[farcanell]

5 minutes ago, riclag said:

We tried diplomacy!The current administration didn't like being threaten "Death to America" 

That’s the most BS excuse anyone can possibly come up with, and it’s far from a new chant by opponents to American interference

internationally, since ww two.

 

there is absolutely no reason to give that chant any more credence now, than Forty years ago, after its first use by Iran...., and, as most pundits see it as a shortening of the origional term “ death to American foreign policy”, or... get rid of bad one sided aggressive American non diplomatic imperialism, then it’s even more invalid as a reason.

 

trump did not try diplomacy... Obama did... with some success... but trump just canned that.... mind you... ?....the oil prices just went up...

 

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Yes they could be perceived that way. But Pakistan hasn’t got hatred anywhere near to the extent Iran has with Israel or the US . And on a government level does not have an Islamic supreme leader calling the shots.  In my humble opinion I think Iran wouldn’t think twice on the tactical nuke option against Israel if conflict came to a head or even Saudi Arabia.  But we can all surely agree than Iran having a nuclear option is bloody frightening.   

Very debatable.... India and Pakistan have had three major wars and numerous armed border conflicts since partition ( the same time as the reformation of Israel)

 

so... on paper, they look much the same..... different ideologies regularly clashing violently.

 

imo.... there is no upside to Iran using a nuke... it will end several millennia of Persian existence... for what? It simply does not make sense, other than as a last resort ( as in, we’ll take you vaginas with us as we go.... but we get the virgins, so stick that!)

[attrayant]

7 hours ago, alocacoc said:

serious, stinging criticism? Actually he's insulting the vice president.

 

Fine, he's criticizing and insulting Pence.  Use whatever terms make you feel better, because Pence deserved every remark that was lobbed at him.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 10/05/2018 at 3:30 PM, alocacoc said:

' “I don’t trust these three EU countries either,” Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, tweeted in English. “If the govt. wants to make a contract, they should ask for a guarantee, or else they will all do just as the U.S. did.” '

 

Khamenei is right. You can't trust those European countries. They are just overwhelmed with that issue. Apart from that, there are other serious hurdles to keep the deals running. Thea deal is dead. It really doesn't matter what the EU is thinking or doing. It's only some noise. Like interference on analog radios.

"The deal is dead. It really doesn't matter what the EU is thinking or doing".  

 

From the above ThaiVisa link, I do love it when it says  "Do we accept that the United States is the economic gendarme of the planet? The answer is no."
Basically, companies in Europe (Britain, France, Germany) will continue to trade with Iran. This whole Washington sanctions thing against Iran will have almost zero impact on Iran.