Nature Of Addiction

[jamman]

Had a fun but terribly embarassing, and socially harmful night two days ago. Black out from memory, being too sexually flirty. Wandering around and leaving my buddies wondering where I am. I probably had a pretty good time, for a totally wasted fool.

That test for how alcoholic we are mentioned that high level drinkers shouldn't do cold turkey, as it is dangerous. Our body is dependent on alcohol to be in equilibrium. It makes us feel better, degrades us, and we don't feel totally ourself without it - at least some times.

I know that there are aspects - important and needed aspects - of my personality that shine brightest, or are visible at all, only with alcohol in me. I don't want to lose those parts of me, the flirty, fun, loose, warm and friendly socially comfortable parts.

But the degradation, the going down and down, losing memory, health, friends and lovers. I'm trying and trying to moderate, but the slippery slope.

Sex makes me who I am. Alcohol makes me who I am. With them, I can communicate, feel fully present and in communion. I would not have passion for life without them. This forum is fun, but nothing to live for. My thing is what I get from what I do. Others ski or bungi jump or gamble or build empires or mess with soiled babies. Sex and alchohol make me real. I'm not complete without them - I am dependent, and agree with the bargain.

Now, to moderation. Please.

This is soliloqui on a forum - I need to give a question now. Ok, how much do you appreciate the gifts of alcohol, as compared to what it takes from quality of life. It will take, and it does give. Do you still hope for moderation as an option, or is the chaos already overwhelming?

Edited January 29, 2007 by jamman

[jumnien]

We recovering alcoholics have a mantra given us many years ago, "We absolutely insist on enjoying life." Communication, communion, ecstacy, pleasure, fun, wildness, adventure, love, the ability to create, to appreciate, to learn, to teach, to fantasize, to dream - this is the gift that liberation from addiction gives us on a daily basis. If you are having a blast with alcohol with minor consequences, as a recovering alcoholic/addict, I say "party on, dude!" If you start having fun with real problems, or just problems, seek help and happiness!

[ding]

Yep, it gave me wings.

Eventually it took away the sky.

[Chris Lawrence]

Have you had brewers drupe yet. U may still have the alcohol but the sex may be taken away.

What are your thoughts on moderation?

[jamman]

Have you had brewers drupe yet. U may still have the alcohol but the sex may be taken away.

What are your thoughts on moderation?

No, still no brewers drupe. I've had the shakes a few times. It's embarassing when paying for my beer at the 7-11 having my hands shaking as I hold the bill. Other times I get stomach ulcers. When my health fails like that, I back off. I also take folic acit and vitamin b supplements, and those seem to help with shakes.

My libido is not much affected by being drunk. But if I'm on a bender and haven't had enough sleep, then there is an overall loss of energy.

One of my favorite memories in this life is riding on top of my Thai lover, swigging straight Sam Som from the three quarters empty big bottle. If anything, the booze made me feel stronger and wilder, in my full power.

My thoughts on moderation: It is dangerous, and I can expect to follow down the slippery slope sometimes. I can expect to lose potential girlfriends, have problems with my mood, being either too cranky or too flirty. I can expect to have to pull myself back from drinking nightly and even binge drinking. I can expect to ride the edge between good health and health risked. I can expect to shorten my life span.

And on the positive side, I can expect to have some great nights out at the disco, able to dance freely, feeling very sociable. I can expect to have fun times dancing with the creative muse, rambling out my thoughts. I will be able to let out big parts of my personality that don't come out as freely without the booze. I can enhance some social feelings and feel socially happy and warm and inviting.

I've spent some years here and there abstinent. They were fine. But my lifestyle didn't include disco or clubs or socializing in groups. I'd have to have a live in woman to want to try total sobriety, and even then, I think I'd prefer moderate drinking.

[jamman]

If you start having fun with real problems, or just problems, seek help and appiness!

Yes, lately I explain to new friends that I can get a bit too wild if I drink too much. At an intimate social gathering recently I'd had a few big beers before arriving, and was aching for another. The gracious hosts provided, but when that one was done and my thirst remained, they suggested I wait a while, so as not to get hammered, and I agreed with their advice. I have to be humble enough to agree that I don't need to be hammered, or even very buzzed. A nice little buzz is pretty good. So they helped me - and I have to listen to my friends about this - as long as they don't give black and white don't drink at all ever thinking. Drink appropriately to me means be sober when that's appropriate, drink a bit when thats appropriate, and get totally f-in hammered when that's appropriate. Sometimes it helps for friends to help me know what is appropriate.

Being hammered is for when I have no obligations, and can't make a fool of myself, and whoever I'm with doesn't mind.

Edited January 31, 2007 by jamman

[jumnien]

There are AA meetings in many locations on Bali. You might try going to one and seeing if you can relate. I'm not saying you are alcoholic, but you don't have to be alcoholic to go to a meeting and take a look at yourself and your options. Bali is a great place; you are a lucky man!

[jamman]

There are AA meetings in many locations on Bali. You might try going to one and seeing if you can relate. I'm not saying you are alcoholic, but you don't have to be alcoholic to go to a meeting and take a look at yourself and your options. Bali is a great place; you are a lucky man!

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm wary of AA, as from what I hear, they promote a lot of black and white thinking. MUST follow a higher power, MUST chose absitnence to get "better", once an alky, always an alky, etc. Sometimes I'm alcoholic, sometimes not (although I do admit to some long term alcohol related brain changes) . Higher power is a relative concept, and I don't need someone explaining to me the nature of what higher is - free will, or an outside source. That's my business how I relate what is higher. And I still choose to aim towards moderation. So I can't see how I'd be anything but a misfit, as usual. I have a hard enough time being sober in social groups, being a misfit with ideas that refuse to fit in won't make me feel more at ease.

I'm no longer in Bali, but in Manado now. I prefer the culture here, and the women must be seen to be believed. More beautiful on average than even Filipinas. This place is the future. The main problem is that most women still want to marry before sex, which is, of course, out of the question. Some girls here are on the game, and some are pay for play, but mostly people really believe in their notions of sin and salvation. And mostly people are kind and straight up, like Christians are supposed to be (it's a Christian area, from the Spanish and Dutch and Portuguese). Not much double pricing here. And they treat white people like High Status People. I know that wont last once many of us come here, but as of now, we rock.

Edited February 1, 2007 by jamman

[Chris Lawrence]

Wow Jamman you must have a strong constitution? You sound like the eveready rabbit; u want to keep on keeping on.

U also remind me of a women I knew. Drank one bottle of OP rum a day with milk. The milk was for the vitamins and calcuim. Didnt worry about vit tablets like you which sounds as a sinsible approach for a wild party man.

Any way back to the story. Due to extended drinking and an age of 61, this women was also vulnerable to opportunistic illness. A very bad stomach bug was doing the rounds and she got it. Had to go to hospital. Too embarresed to let them know what she drank or ate. Had a heart attack and died in hospital. Lovely lady but unfortunatly was to proud to admit the problem.

Not saying you have a problem Jamman. It just sounds as you believe that you have a strong constitution.

[Neeranam]

It's embarassing when paying for my beer at the 7-11 having my hands shaking as I hold the bill.

Here's a tip - go up to the refrigerator and take out a couple of beer chang. Down them quickly and then take the empties up to pay for them. The shakes will leave you and you won't be embarassed. I used to do that every morning at about 4am, and the staff never suspected I was an alkie.

[dee123]

i read somewhere the saying "good orderly direction".....meaning you realise that alchohol is a big part of your life,.....you know that there will come a time when you need to cut down,....not now necesarily....but sometime,...to remember that.....Good Orderly Direction............GOD........but not having to be religion.......

[robitusson]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm wary of AA, as from what I hear, they promote a lot of black and white thinking. MUST follow a higher power, MUST chose absitnence to get "better", once an alky, always an alky, etc. Sometimes I'm alcoholic, sometimes not (although I do admit to some long term alcohol related brain changes) . Higher power is a relative concept, and I don't need someone explaining to me the nature of what higher is - free will, or an outside source. That's my business how I relate what is higher. And I still choose to aim towards moderation. So I can't see how I'd be anything but a misfit, as usual. I have a hard enough time being sober in social groups, being a misfit with ideas that refuse to fit in won't make me feel more at ease.

Unfortunately AA is more interested in promoting religiousity amongst their members than actually dealing with problem-drinking and addiction. There are plenty of other options open to you though which can help you to moderate your drinking or abstain altogether, depending on what suits you.

[Chris Lawrence]

Unfortunately AA is more interested in promoting religiousity amongst their members than actually dealing with problem-drinking and addiction. There are plenty of other options open to you though which can help you to moderate your drinking or abstain altogether, depending on what suits you.

The tenants of any 12 step fellowship is the 12 steps. Many of the clients that I have worked with had tried every other options with poor success.

Like AA, I found this passage on the Australian NA website. I also understand that NA works on a process attraction not promotion.

'Narcotics Anonymous is not a religious organisation and does not mandate any particular belief system. It does teach basic spiritual principles such as honesty, open-mindedness, faith, willingness, and humility that may be applied in everyday life. The specific practical application of spiritual principles is determined by each individual. Recovery in NA is not a miracle cure that happens within a given period of time. It is a process, ongoing and personal. Members make an individual decision to join and recover at their own pace.'

These principles are what go out the door when drinking or druging; they are the important factors in a person retriving self respect.

It is easy to forget what the principles are; somtimes the fear of admitting the problem will put the most obvious in front of you. Its all about religion?

There are a number of other programs available and therapies. I am not sure what services are available for westerners in Thailand? In Australia these services are provided at a community health level or are run by private organisations. Oh yes there are the Sallies.

In my line of work AA and NA are some of the cheaper forms of maitenance on offer in the community. It costs nothing to attend meetings.

[jamman]

Unfortunately AA is more interested in promoting religiousity amongst their members than actually dealing with problem-drinking and addiction. There are plenty of other options open to you though which can help you to moderate your drinking or abstain altogether, depending on what suits you.

'Narcotics Anonymous is not a religious organisation and does not mandate any particular belief system. It does teach basic spiritual principles such as honesty, open-mindedness, faith, willingness, and humility that may be applied in everyday life..."

These principles are what go out the door when drinking or druging; they are the important factors in a person retriving self respect.

It is easy to forget what the principles are; somtimes the fear of admitting the problem will put the most obvious in front of you. Its all about religion?

I have not noticed becoming less honest when drinking.

I'm not the one to judge how open minded I am, but I don't see that aspect of curiosity affected by alcohol.

As for faith, I don't know what that means, and I'm not so open minded as to just accept on faith somebody's version of what it means. I pay as close atention as possible to how things actually are, and how they work. I don't see Faith as a spiritual trait - I see it as a religious one.

My willingness increases after I drink.

I don't have much humility in any case, but I doubt that drinking makes it any less.

So I can't see that AA is going to have anything informative to say regarding these spiritual principles to me. I have lived as spiritual a life as I know how - living in monastaries and retreat centers at times, meditating for most of the day at times. And up to now still very engaged in contemplative practices, and just general curiosity. I can't see any benefit from talk of faith and humility, regarding drinking.

I don't see the need to learn faith and humility, I see the need to forego that extra kick of fun from time to time, so that the next time it will remain fun, and so that my baseline level of happiness is higher than if I was drinking often.

Well, humility actually I value - but not to some spiritual value or power that I'm to have faith in. I am humble towards my company. Last night I asked my evening companion if it was allright with her if I drank a bit more, and she said no. So I didn't.

[jamman]

Well, humility actually I value - but not to some spiritual value or power that I'm to have faith in. I am humble towards my company. Last night I asked my evening companion if it was allright with her if I drank a bit more, and she said no. So I didn't.

Last night it was the same - I asked her if it was ok if I drank a bit, and she said no. EEeaa! But I want to drink! So we struck a bargain. I would drink a bit that night, but not the next time we met. Seems moderate and acceptable all around.

On a possibly related tangent...

My new female friend's first and last boyfriend visited her town for one month, dated her, then came back 8 months later to date her again for a month. He did not make any skillful sexual advances until well into the second visit. My style works differently, and this lovely young woman was seduced into pliant putty on our first date. She says the next day "You crazy last night! You drunk!" But I wasn't. In her mind the alcohol excused disinhibited behaviour - mine. By disinhibited I'm not implying sloppy or forceful - just abandoned to the ways of passion. You have to be on your game to ride that edge of relaxing your partner into opening, pushing just past a boundary to a place where she opens even further, and pulling back from boundaries crossed where there is still discomfort on the other side.

Sometimes a no is an invitation or a challenge. For instance, this morning, her exact words were "no, no stop, don't do that. no. mmmgn. I love you! Don't leave me." But that exchange was full of nuance and moderation - nothing black and white in it. Sometimes cross a boundary a bit, if you think the boundary is ready to be tested, sometimes increase love and acceptance, sometimes the both of you swoon into passion and kisses and each others scent. Sometimes be formal and polite. Sometimes take firm, animal control and allow dominance. Sometimes be submissive in her nurturing feminine embrace.

That's moderation. Not Enya and porridge and a bland lifestyle. Alternations, not even temperatures. Sometimes buzzed, sometimes wasted, sometimes sober, but attentive to the environment and able to adapt, and if there is a mess up, start again. And again.

Edited February 4, 2007 by jamman

[jamman]

I think what I was trying to get at with comparing seduction and moderation, is that sometimes excess is required, otherwise we don't get anywhere. In seduction the excess is sometimes overstepping or testing boundaries, and this makes lovers closer, and for drinking it is getting more than a bit buzzed, and that somehow gives a sense of satisfaction.

When I'm alcoholic, I try to manage it by drinking only after 7pm, and limiting the amount to a fifth of vodka. Lately my female companion is helping me to drink only every second day. This works great, as I can still look forward to being drunk, without feeling like I'm drunk too often. And she gets to have me totally sober day and night often.